[Mr Sirs]

Sorry guys I watched the first 20 minutes of this programme and I was bored to tears. I've always enjoyed Derren's tv shows, but the start of this was as dull as dishwater.

Sounds as if it did pick up to be fair though.

[fizzle90]

I wish they would show Enigma, or An Evening Of Wonders which IMO was the best live show.

[egghead1]

Second half was better tbh. But then I prefer "darker"Derren,a good routine not shown was paintball russian roulette,would have been good on TV.

[roddydogs]

Originally Posted by Tt88

When everyone put the names in the net did it go backstage at all or did he pick straight from it? If he picked from it then surely nobody backstage could know what names were written down.

Theory........the net contains several pre written "Elvises" or whoever has been chosen for that night, it also has 2 compartments that can be switched by a button on the pole.
As he pulls the net in and offers it to the "Vistim", he simply presses the button so only "Elivis" can be picked

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by Tt88

When everyone put the names in the net did it go backstage at all or did he pick straight from it? If he picked from it then surely nobody backstage could know what names were written down.

I'm still not understanding why you don't get this.
You seem to be coming from this as though people actually just thought up famous celebrity names at the time.
I'm coming at this from the premise that it was known beforehand what names were going to be put into that net before they were even placed in it.

If it is known what all the names are going to be inside the net beforehand, and then one name is taken from the net, then the net is taken somewhere else offscreen, it is then possible to deduce which name has been taken out of the net by taking note of what names are left in the net.

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by kdog2010

yes - i know. i was saying "if I wanted to work out how he did the trick, I would ask the following questions..."

I would imagine that Derren knows exactly what celebrity is written on the paper before doing the painting.

The "psychic" hand on his arm, upside down painting etc etc is for dramatic purposes.

Therefore, he must have some way of planting the paper OR all the bits of paper have the same name written on them.

How he does that isn't really important. It's a really impressive trick, but the point I was trying to make was:

Q) would the trick work if the celebrity was not written down?
A) no - so think about why not?

Q) why does a random person choose a piece of paper rather than choosing a celebrity themselves?
A) Because then Derren couldn't plant "Elvis" (or whichever celebrity he's doing that night)

also think about why he couldn't let just any old celeb get choosen - imagine if someone wrote 'Louis from One Direction' - even if Derren could mind-read, half the audience wouldn't recognise the painting and the trick would fall flat.

One other option crossed my mind which is a bit of a long shot and may sound a bit stupid, but I thought of the possibility of a trick net.

Possibly there are indeed several pieces of paper with Elvis on them, as you suggest. But when people put their names into the hat they are putting their names into the net where there is a sewn in flap which means it has two compartments depending on which side the flap is folded over which can go to either one side or the other. So it's a net of two halves.

After their names are put in the net, the compartment flap is put across to the other side of the net so that all the Elvis pieces of paper are exposed.

So when somebody rummages their hand through the net they can only feel within one of the two halves of the net at a time. In this case the half with the Elvis names in it. So there's no way they can pick another name.

The only real way of the method being revealed is a close inspection of the net, or if the people who put names of their own choice in have a little chat later on and discover that none of them chose Elvis Presley.

It is a long shot, but it's possible that it could be something along these lines.
At least it would come under the remit of being 'stooge-free'.

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by roddydogs

Theory........the net contains several pre written "Elvises" or whoever has been chosen for that night, it also has 2 compartments that can be switched by a button on the pole.
As he pulls the net in and offers it to the "Vistim", he simply presses the button so only "Elivis" can be picked

Ah damn. I just read this post and you beat me to it.
I could have saved myself the time of writing my last post if I'd have caught up with the thread first instead.

[Calibans Dream]

Originally Posted by roddydogs

Theory........the net contains several pre written "Elvises" or whoever has been chosen for that night, it also has 2 compartments that can be switched by a button on the pole.
As he pulls the net in and offers it to the "Vistim", he simply presses the button so only "Elivis" can be picked

Did you take into account that a net, by it's very nature, is see-through!

So nowhere for multi-Elvis' to live.

[Serenity79]

Originally Posted by roddydogs

Thought the doll bit was a bit naff as their were only two initials D & S that it could be, on the hanky not random, obviously the doll was programmed to point to those 2, OK it dosent detract from the trick just that the doll was irrelevant to this trick.

In the actual live show the doll was used SO much more and did a lot of tapping stuff out. This section was severely edited, much to the detriment of the programme.

[egghead1]

Originally Posted by Serenity79

In the actual live show the doll was used SO much more and did a lot of tapping stuff out. This section was severely edited, much to the detriment of the programme.

Agree.

[performingmonk]

Incidentally, I think Abi, the girl who he picks with the hoop near the beginning, is one of the prettiest girls I've ever seen. Just...thought I'd mention it...cause, come on, she is so darn nice!

[Misty08]

Originally Posted by Tt88

Thats risky though considering the people in the front could probably see if he was looking at something. Plus it relies on the man defying the instructions. If someone is willing to open their eyes when derren specifically said keep them shut, ate they always going to go along with the rest of the trick? Plus its a tour so its a different person each time, chances are at least one will keep their eyes shut.

I was at the front for one of the shows, pretty much opposite the "victim" in this section. He could not see anything, As the poster above says, that would not be a reliable method anyway.

[Deserana 12]

Originally Posted by kdog2010

also think about why he couldn't let just any old celeb get choosen - imagine if someone wrote 'Louis from One Direction' - even if Derren could mind-read, half the audience wouldn't recognise the painting and the trick would fall flat.

Derren specifically said to choose someone everybody would know and would recognise, that would automatically make people think of someone like Elvis or whoever, I had Marilyn Monroe at my showing but someone else I know had Johnny Depp and someone else had David Beckham. When you are asked something like this your mind would automatically go to certain very well names I'm presuming Derren could make a deduction from this.

Originally Posted by Serenity79

In the actual live show the doll was used SO much more and did a lot of tapping stuff out. This section was severely edited, much to the detriment of the programme.

Agreed, there was so much more when I saw it. The doll especially. And much more in the first half.

Originally Posted by roddydogs

Theory........the net contains several pre written "Elvises" or whoever has been chosen for that night, it also has 2 compartments that can be switched by a button on the pole.
As he pulls the net in and offers it to the "Vistim", he simply presses the button so only "Elivis" can be picked

The net went all around the front rows if anything like this happened I'm sure one smart arse would point it out.

Things don't always go according to plan though, in the Enigma tour the mum of the vinegar drinker shouted to Derren that she didn't want her daughter to do it.

And during our showing of Svengali the man who picked Marilyn sat back down because he didn't know her (presumably in enough detail to paint).

[Gibman]

Originally Posted by performingmonk

Incidentally, I think Abi, the girl who he picks with the hoop near the beginning, is one of the prettiest girls I've ever seen. Just...thought I'd mention it...cause, come on, she is so darn nice!

Sorry but that just comes across as a bit creepy.

[AdamCleland]

See, I think a lot of people are trying to rubbish everything he does as involving stooges, or anaesthetic, or things like that.

He DOES have a strong talent that allows him to manipulate the minds of people in varying ways. For example, I bet you anything that he could do the "Where is Derren's shoe" with you 100 times and 100 times he would win. This isn't because of some magical device that moves the shoe to a different box, it's because he is sub consciously telling you which box you're going to pick.

And furthermore, the numbing of the hand trick, and the solidifying limbs trick .. it's just a form of hypnosis and is not a stooge or something as pathetic as that. Derren isn't a bog standard magician using all the fakery equipment he can get his hands on. I will admit that some things he does are just basic magic, but he really does have a talent that very few other people possess.

He gets such a bad rap on here, and I don't know why. Some of the suggestions here of how he did things are purely idiotic. Like the net with hidden compartments...

[fizzle90]

Originally Posted by Gibman

Sorry but that just comes across as a bit creepy.

Why does it?

Originally Posted by AdamCleland

He gets such a bad rap on here, and I don't know why.

Agreed.

[performingmonk]

The painting is the best part of the show!

Thinking about the net...it does have a fairly large rim on it, which could conceal something. If I were to guess I would say the net is double-netted (i.e. two layers of netting). Once the audience members have placed their bits of paper inside and Derren calls Anthony to the front, he raises the net high in the air for (apparently) no reason. As they're applauding and focussing on Anthony, Derren could press a button on the long net stalk that releases a spring that pulls the first layer of netting into the rim, leaving the second layer there, which always contained slips only of the name of the celebrity Derren wants to paint.

The other, more basic, explanation (and the one I believe, cause the netting one could easily mess up) is that Anthony can actually see through the pillowcase, and he says 'Elvis Presley' regardless of what name was on the slip he read. If you were on stage and could see that Derren was painting Elvis, would you say any other name? I know that I wouldn't, because I wouldn't want to ruin the show and look like a dick in front of an audience of people. Going along with the show is pretty much the basis of Derren's entire interaction with audience members, as it is with all magicians/illusionists/hypnotists. The key to it is maybe that Derren shouts 'say the name!' at him straightaway, and this, along with the music blasting away, is really pressuring the audience member into saying the right name.

[performingmonk]

I know I've got to stop think about this, , but I still reckon Matt can see the doll when he's writing the letters.

I notice that Derren does something behind the blackboard when he's placed it in Matt's lap. Possibly pulling out a hinged mirror...? You can even see Derren checking if the angle is okay as he's backing away towards the doll. I'm totally wrong, of course. Probably... Maybe the stagehand slipped something on his arm which lets them move it remotely...

[egghead1]

Originally Posted by AdamCleland

He DOES have a strong talent that allows him to manipulate the minds of people in varying ways. For example, I bet you anything that he could do the "Where is Derren's shoe" with you 100 times and 100 times he would win. This isn't because of some magical device that moves the shoe to a different box, it's because he is sub consciously telling you which box you're going to pick.

And furthermore, the numbing of the hand trick, and the solidifying limbs trick .. it's just a form of hypnosis and is not a stooge or something as pathetic as that. Derren isn't a bog standard magician using all the fakery equipment he can get his hands on. I will admit that some things he does are just basic magic, but he really does have a talent that very few other people possess.

Lol just lol.

Better than Derren...possibly?
http://youtu.be/_3eSmsB6bU0

Brilliat all the same.

[AdamCleland]

What are you lolling at?

[egghead1]

Originally Posted by performingmonk

Incidentally, I think Abi, the girl who he picks with the hoop near the beginning, is one of the prettiest girls I've ever seen. Just...thought I'd mention it...cause, come on, she is so darn nice!

Is that the girl whose birthday it is -who is on stage at end? If so I agree.
*creepy alert*

[tedmaul09]

Been a fan of Derren's for years, I still prefer his original series "Mind Control" to anything else

[John_Traynor]

He's a bore. He has some bog-standard misdirection and auto suggestion techniques.

[digimoan]

I love Derren Brown but dozed off half way through this

It just didn't have that "feel" that the other shows did

[Mrs Mackintosh]

I lost interest in it halfway through, although I did enjoy the upside down Elvis painting. My daughter MADE me watch it on catch up the next day cos she loves Derren Brown and I was bored stiff by the number thing at the end. Clever as it is, it just leaves me cold.