[Iphigenia]

Originally Posted by ganderpoke66

Fit Like ?

Just seen this! Thought it was only me and my auld mither that still used 'Fit like?'

Thanks for the breakfast smile!!

[vidalia]

Originally Posted by david1955

I accept that some Jewish people have an interesting background , but Alex Kingston did not fit into this category. There in fact did not seem to be any reason to mention it

Apart from the fact that they got a lot of information from the Jewish Museum.

[cezzy]

I was also looking forward to watching this episode. I like Alex Kingston & see her as an interesting person & finding out about her ancestors Was fascinating. I've researched my own family & I also have a 4x great gran who owned a boarding house.....think I need to look into that a little more!

[lundavra]

Originally Posted by Tourista

Must say I was really looking forward to Alex's episode, and it didnt disapoint.....

So near the end of her life, her (4x GG mother?) had a middle class address, several other houses, her son and g daughter living with her, and she had two servants, all while being practically iliterate, (note the signature on the will) thats some going for the times she was in.

superspooky, I was another who couldnt stop laughing at Alex's wisecrack......

The first half was good but the second half was excellent as they went into the history of her 4 x GGM. She was shocked initially but more and more engrossed as the details came out.

The comment someone made about the number of people with Jewish backgrounds, perhaps many more of us have a link somewhere to a Jewish line than we realise.

Much better than the Annie Lennox programme a couple of weeks ago, she was too quick to bring her politics into the story at every opportunity. A female ancestor has an illegitimate child so must have been exploited by someone from a different class, it could be that she exploited him to try and trap into marriage or at least get support for a child. Usually we don't know.

[vidalia]

Originally Posted by lundavra

The first half was good but the second half was excellent as they went into the history of her 4 x GGM. She was shocked initially but more and more engrossed as the details came out.

The comment someone made about the number of people with Jewish backgrounds, perhaps many more of us have a link somewhere to a Jewish line than we realise.

Much better than the Annie Lennox programme a couple of weeks ago, she was too quick to bring her politics into the story at every opportunity. A female ancestor has an illegitimate child so must have been exploited by someone from a different class, it could be that she exploited him to try and trap into marriage or at least get support for a child. Usually we don't know.

The most fascinating one I remember from this programme was Dervla Kirwan who was researching her ancestry to Michael Collins but then discovered her paternal grandfather was a Russian Jew who married an Irish Catholic (interesting to me as my father was a Russian Jew who married a Mexican Catholic). She then found out about an anti-semitic miscarriage of justice involving her grandfather that was featured in James Joyce's Ulysses.

[valkay]

[quote=david1955;61221825]Very enjoyable show. I haven't watched one of these programmes for ages. Has William Roache been on yet ? I'd quite like to watch that one.

Just one point. Whenever I watch this programme all , or virtually all the paticipants have some sort of Jewish heritage. I can only assume that the researchers of the programme are Jewish ( not that I have a problem with that! )[/QUote

Chris Moyles said after he did WDYTYA, he was the only one who didn't go to Auschwitz.

[Tourista]

Originally Posted by lundavra

The comment someone made about the number of people with Jewish backgrounds, perhaps many more of us have a link somewhere to a Jewish line than we realise.

Much better than the Annie Lennox programme a couple of weeks ago,

A 4x G uncle of mine married a jewish girl, but when I tried to get more info about the family from another "Ancestry" member, they refused to countenance the idea that a christian would marry a jew, as "christians were all bigots then". Even an email with the marriage certificate didnt budge them from their stance.

As to the Lennox prog, I enjoyed it myself, but Alex's has been the highlight of the series so far.

[david1955]

[quote=valkay;61228464]

Originally Posted by david1955

Very enjoyable show. I haven't watched one of these programmes for ages. Has William Roache been on yet ? I'd quite like to watch that one.

Just one point. Whenever I watch this programme all , or virtually all the paticipants have some sort of Jewish heritage. I can only assume that the researchers of the programme are Jewish ( not that I have a problem with that! )[/QUote

Chris Moyles said after he did WDYTYA, he was the only one who didn't go to Auschwitz.

Thank you for confirming my impression of the programme.The link between Alex Kingston and her Jewish background was tenuous to say the least.

My great great grandfather . ( 1860-1940 approx) was a sailor on the Cutty Sark. There was a picture of him on the handbook at the Cutty Sark exhibition,( My American relatives tracked him down ) but I,m not sure if it is still there. My late mother remembered him very well, and she would have been about 20 when he died. She and her sister , still going at 86, called him the captain and absolutey adored him. A great big guy with a huge beard and he looked like a typical old sea captain.

It would be very difficult to trace him now though , as his name was John Smith


Edit: I did not mean to quote my own post Something wrong with the quotes thing.

[vidalia]

[quote=david1955;61230083]

Originally Posted by valkay

Thank you for confirming my impression of the programme.The link between Alex Kingston and her Jewish background was tenuous to say the least.

My great great grandfather . ( 1860-1940 approx) was a sailor on the Cutty Sark. There was a picture of him on the handbook at the Cutty Sark exhibition,( My American relatives tracked him down ) but I,m not sure if it is still there. My late mother remembered him very well, and she would have been about 20 when he died. She and her sister , still going at 86, called him the captain and absolutey adored him. A great big guy with a huge beard and he looked like a typical old sea captain.

It would be very difficult to trace him now though , as his name was John Smith

Didn't Alex Kingston say that people are often asking if she is Jewish? There was a 'rumour' in her family that there was a Jewish background so that is probably what she asked them to look into - not that tenuous to her.

[clarendel]

[quote=david1955;61230083]

Originally Posted by valkay

Thank you for confirming my impression of the programme.The link between Alex Kingston and her Jewish background was tenuous to say the least.

My great great grandfather . ( 1860-1940 approx) was a sailor on the Cutty Sark. There was a picture of him on the handbook at the Cutty Sark exhibition,( My American relatives tracked him down ) but I,m not sure if it is still there. My late mother remembered him very well, and she would have been about 20 when he died. She and her sister , still going at 86, called him the captain and absolutey adored him. A great big guy with a huge beard and he looked like a typical old sea captain.

It would be very difficult to trace him now though , as his name was John Smith

Have you tried the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich or possibly the National Archives? They may have some information. What a co-incidence. I'm watching London Tonight and they have just announced that the Maritime Museum has just released thousands of merchant seaman's records on-line including the record of the Captain of the Cutty Sark.

[lundavra]

Originally Posted by Tourista

A 4x G uncle of mine married a jewish girl, but when I tried to get more info about the family from another "Ancestry" member, they refused to countenance the idea that a christian would marry a jew, as "christians were all bigots then". Even an email with the marriage certificate didnt budge them from their stance.

There are always going be similar stories of families not approving of marriages, probably plenty because the partner was the wrong branch of Christianity!

I photographed a grave in a CoS Parish Church graveyard recently of "Hari the Jew", he was apparently a well know local character in the 19th Century.

[catsitter]

Originally Posted by MJS

It was also interesting how Elizabeth left her properties in the form of Trusts so no daughter's husband could get hold of them. That was really forward thinking.

They tried to make out that she was clever to think of it, but in fact it was just standard wording for a will in those days.

[Stockingfiller]

Really enjoyed this episode. It was a bit more interesting than some of the others !
Two of my ancestors were at Jamestown, Virginia and another one was in Salem a year after the Salem witch trials - settlers. Found evidence from the time of Henry V11th of ancestors living in London. There's so much to find out but it's very time consuming. So I find it a bit boring sometimes when we see someone going on about something their granny knows. Alex Kingston's story was so interesting because she discovered information that genuinely, surprised her.

[MJS]

Originally Posted by catsitter

They tried to make out that she was clever to think of it, but in fact it was just standard wording for a will in those days.

She was indeed clever, as before the Married Women's Property Act 1882 on marriage a woman's property both real and personal became that of her husband, to do with as he wished. In fact the woman herself was deemed a "chattel". It was only a single or widowed woman who could hold property in her own name. The law could be got around by making Trusts very often through a Will. They were used as a means of safeguard for the married woman.

[ichou]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

This one did make me think about the phrase 'living off immoral earnings', which wasn't a crime in the staid Victorian era and is now.

Do we really think that is 'immoral' nowadays - who is to judge? Best I understand, most girls prefer to work in a safe, clean and organised environment.

And even if it is, there are plenty living off way more 'immoral' earning than that - like bankers, and many politial lobbyists (tobacco industry, alcohol, maybe gambling, drugs companies, the food industry, etc, etc).

Yes, this is an interesting point of view. And is reflected in the fact that selling sexual services direct is still not an offence, although others benefiting from your trade and importuning in public IS.

It's also clear that it wouldn't have taken long for Mrs Braham to note that renting rooms by the hour was always going to be better than renting by the week......

[david1955]

[quote=clarendel;61230187]

Originally Posted by david1955

Have you tried the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich or possibly the National Archives? They may have some information. What a co-incidence. I'm watching London Tonight and they have just announced that the Maritime Museum has just released thousands of merchant seaman's records on-line including the record of the Captain of the Cutty Sark.

Many thanks for that info. I go to London a couple of times a year, so I will go down to Greenwich to have a look , and I'll look on line. The Cutty Sark was a very tiny boat It amazes me that such a small boat could travel such long distances. My great great grandad would have only been about 17/18 when he served on it


Edit : the quote thing is still not right . I meant to quote Clarendil

[nanscombe]

The Cutty Sark (a few minutes walk from the National Maritime Museum) is now run by The Royal Museums Greenwich along with the National Maritime Museum, The Queen's House and The Royal Observatory.


Research and enquiries

Full crew lists for the period 1870–1895 can be found in S.F. Bailey's book The Crews of Cutty Sark, London, 1989. This book is available to view in the Caird Library, National Maritime Museum – see the Library's Catalogue. This information is drawn from the original crew lists held at The National Maritime Museum. If you are interested in viewing the original documents, please visit The National Maritime Museum archive. To register to use the Caird Library please go to Aeon. To request a specific crew list to view in the Caird Library, please go to Crew Lists, Agreements and Official Logs Request Form.

Please note that the Trust has very limited information about the crews during the period of Portuguese ownership 1895–1922.

More assistance in tracing ancestors who served in the Merchant Navy can be found in The National Maritime Museum's Research Guides.

[lundavra]

Originally Posted by catsitter

They tried to make out that she was clever to think of it, but in fact it was just standard wording for a will in those days.

She seems to have got wealthier so quite likely that she would be able to afford a good lawyer to make up her will.

[lundavra]

Quite a bit of Merchant Navy information has been appearing online. FindMyPast has

Crew Lists 1861-1913
Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941 - these sometimes have photographs
White Star Line Officers' Books 1868-1934

It is a subscription site but see if you know anyone interested in family history who uses it.

Some British Merchant Navy records are held by the Memorial University of Newfoundland

http://collections.mun.ca/cdm4/description.php?id=107

[catsitter]

Originally Posted by lundavra

She seems to have got wealthier so quite likely that she would be able to afford a good lawyer to make up her will.

Exactly - so there is nothing to suggest that the trust was her idea!

[vidalia]

Originally Posted by catsitter

Exactly - so there is nothing to suggest that the trust was her idea!

She might have said there's no way I want that rubbish son of mine to fritter it away, I want to leave it to my granddaughter - and asked the lawyer what was the best way of doing it. She may even have given him a discount for services at her premises if he came up with the best way round it.

There's nothing to suggest it wasn't her idea either and as we'll never know we can just go with the story we prefer.

[Andy-B]

^ Which is part of the beauty of the programme; for all we know she gave the property to set the grandaughter up to run her own knocking shop. Marvellous.

[lundavra]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

^ Which is part of the beauty of the programme; for all we know she gave the property to set the grandaughter up to run her own knocking shop. Marvellous.

All too often when looking into family history there is very little evidence and much is complete speculation. Some subjects are left to jump to conclusions that are just one possibility. One of the worst cases was when it was suggested to John Prescott that one of his ancestors had a child by her father even though there was no evidence apart from the father not being named on the Birth Certificate. He then went off into rant mode as would be expected with him!

[catsitter]

That John Prescott stuff wasn't on Who Do You Think You Are; it was a series called Coming Home where celebrities explored their Welsh roots. But I agree that was one of the worst.

[snoweyowl]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

^ Which is part of the beauty of the programme; for all we know she gave the property to set the grandaughter up to run her own knocking shop. Marvellous.

More likely an established chain of knocking shops!