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Why can't BBC Presenters pronounce Machynlleth


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Old 02-10-2012, 22:26
old pilot
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To be fair here it's not just Welsh place names that can be miss-pronounced.

I spent a decade as a presenter on BBC Radio Wales and the place is a minefield when it comes to area's such as the borders and north east. Anglo Welsh often means there are two ways of pronouncing simple places such as Rhyl.

I worked for many years in international tv news where the Americanism I-Raq wound me up.
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Old 02-10-2012, 23:44
Alli-F
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From the Sky News Radio guide :


It's not Mer-Hun-Cliff.

It's more like Mc-un-thleth
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Old 03-10-2012, 00:13
mikw
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It's not Mer-Hun-Cliff.

It's more like Mc-un-thleth
It would appear, therefore, that both the BBC and Sky pronunciation guides are different.

I notice that Hugh was saying it different to the Sky guide when he was on news tonight.

Not always surprising with a Welsh name, sometimes the person who makes the guide asks someone for the pronunciation and that person pronounces it different from someone else.
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Old 03-10-2012, 00:25
zz9
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To be fair here it's not just Welsh place names that can be miss-pronounced.

I spent a decade as a presenter on BBC Radio Wales and the place is a minefield when it comes to area's such as the borders and north east. Anglo Welsh often means there are two ways of pronouncing simple places such as Rhyl.

I worked for many years in international tv news where the Americanism I-Raq wound me up.
Exactly. There is Witham in Essex which is pronounced Wit-ham and not With-am as so many traffic reporters pronounce it. And it's only a few miles from London on a major road.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:39
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It's a complete non issue. Does anyone actually care? If they do, that says alot about them, and not in a positive way. The people who live there (who are the people who matter) won't give a flying monkey nut, they're only interested in finding April, not how some people on TV pronounce the place they live. Literally as simple as that.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:44
Jason C
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Shame too to see anti-Welsh views on this forum.
Perhaps those views wouldn't have been expressed had the Welsh posted in this thread didn't have such chips on their shoulders about how their town and city names are pronounced.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:59
The Cricketer
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Does anyone care how it's pronounced. I dont. How is it disrespectful for Englaish presenters not to be able to pronounce a very difficult foreign name?

If they were laughing at the name (like they might on Talksport) then fair enough. But they arent.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:08
Stigid
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The BBC has a Pronunciation Unit.

The BBC broadcasts nationally across Wales.

You would have thought someone on BBC Breakfast (Manchester) and on BBC News (London) would have checked the correct pronunciation of Machynlleth, with the PU, or with Welsh reporters beforehand.

They had at least 12 hours to do so.

And to then ignore the correct pronunciation as spoken by the Welsh reporters!!!

Even an English approximation would have been nice.

In all cases, eventually, this happened.

After some prompting, it has to be said.

Having worked in Wales, for BBC Wales & HTV, I have seen the disdain Welsh speakers, and non Welsh speaking inhabitants have for bad English pronunciation of Welsh place names.

I am not a Welsh speaker myself, but I have worked with many who are.

The 2001 Census indicated that 70% of the 2000-strong population of Machynlleth have some knowledge of Welsh with 42% able to read, write and speak the language.



The TV presenters do seem to manage to pronounce various "difficult" foreign names after all.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:39
stevvy1986
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So what? It's not as important as people make it out to be. Seriously, anyone who's making a serious fuss out of this and is genuinely bothered needs to look at themselves and ask if the pronunciation of a Welsh village is worth getting so worked up over. Get over yourselves.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:39
LostLabyrinth
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I live quite close to Mach so I had Sky news on most of the day, and I obviously noticed the trouble they were having, not only with Mack-in-fleff but also with the Diffy (Dyfi) bridge and the Briny-Gug (Bryn-y-Gog) estate. One guy actually started saying Mack-hyn-leth by the end of the day and I was quite proud of him.

I seriously doubt that anybody Welsh is taking it anywhere near as seriously as those objecting to this topic are making out-I'm certainly not!- so there's nothing to "get over", but as long as Mach is in the news and it's a relevant topic, it's just a bit of a shame to note that English reporters will make an effort with pronunciation when they go abroad, but not when they pop next door.

It actually annoyed me more that they kept messing up the geography of the area as that could actually hinder anybody who is unfamiliar with the area but wants to help- Corris is a small village five miles north of Machynlleth, not a town just outside it, and Machynlleth is a small market town, not a village.
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:11
LaurelandHardy
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Heard one of the worst pronunciations this mornng on Radio 5 Live.
"Muck in lith"
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:13
steveh31
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Years ago when Nestle were taking over Rowntree they news, including the BBC, pronounced the Swiss company as Nes-elles" all the time. Then the had a history of the company and sais "The Nes-elles company, founded by Andre Nest-lay..."
So you don't remember the advert jingle "Nes-elle Milky Bar" then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muJDv6Do124
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:02
ftv
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The BBC has a Pronunciation Unit.

The BBC broadcasts nationally across Wales.

You would have thought someone on BBC Breakfast (Manchester) and on BBC News (London) would have checked the correct pronunciation of Machynlleth, with the PU, or with Welsh reporters beforehand.

They had at least 12 hours to do so.

And to then ignore the correct pronunciation as spoken by the Welsh reporters!!!

Even an English approximation would have been nice.

In all cases, eventually, this happened.

After some prompting, it has to be said.

Having worked in Wales, for BBC Wales & HTV, I have seen the disdain Welsh speakers, and non Welsh speaking inhabitants have for bad English pronunciation of Welsh place names.

I am not a Welsh speaker myself, but I have worked with many who are.

The 2001 Census indicated that 70% of the 2000-strong population of Machynlleth have some knowledge of Welsh with 42% able to read, write and speak the language.



The TV presenters do seem to manage to pronounce various "difficult" foreign names after all.
I thought the BBC Pronunciation Unit closed down some years ago
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:13
GarethHarrison
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Years ago when Nestle were taking over Rowntree they news, including the BBC, pronounced the Swiss company as Nes-elles" all the time. Then the had a history of the company and sais "The Nes-elles company, founded by Andre Nest-lay..."
When I was a kid, the TV ads for Milky Bars always called it 'Nes-elles'.

EDIT: Ah, too slow... just seen steveh31's reply.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:29
ozark1
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Welsh names are difficult.

Pwlheli
Caersws


But there again

Leominster
Towcester
Alnwick
Keynsham
Hawick
Hertsmonceux
Belvoir
Beaulieu
Mousehole
Little Peover
Happisburgh
Cholmondley
Woolfardisworthy

Could you pronounce them all....?
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:34
lundavra
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It would appear, therefore, that both the BBC and Sky pronunciation guides are different.

I notice that Hugh was saying it different to the Sky guide when he was on news tonight.

Not always surprising with a Welsh name, sometimes the person who makes the guide asks someone for the pronunciation and that person pronounces it different from someone else.
Like most languages, Welsh has variants. There are often arguments between North and South Wales about who speaks the purer version and mid-Wales is likely an even purer version than North Wales.

A colleague at work learnt Scottish Gaelic from the BBC Scotland lessons, we were staying in a hotel on Islay so he practised his Gaelic on the owner but they said he was speaking "Stornoway Gaelic" not the version they spoke.

Probably similar to someone in Lancashire or Yorkshire listening to someone with a London accent.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:38
mossy2103
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Likewise, here in the Midlands, we have Solihull.

I, and many others not from Solihull pronounce it as solly hull (with heavy emphasis on the "hull".

Others from the area pronounce it as so lee hull, with a very light, almost breathy emphasis on the "hull".


There is a Kings Coughton nearby - I pronounce it as co ton, others pronounce it as coff ton.

As for Alcester - i say oll ster, others outside of the area say oll ces ter


It's a funny old world.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:41
lundavra
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... Having worked in Wales, for BBC Wales & HTV, I have seen the disdain Welsh speakers, and non Welsh speaking inhabitants have for bad English pronunciation of Welsh place names. ....
Years ago I sometimes used to listen to the local news from BBC Highland in Inverness. One reason that I stopped was that it was often read by people who either could barely speak English or deliberately mangled the English pronounciation. I can't imagine the Gaelic (or Welsh) being read in a similar fashion.

I have found most Welsh speakers tolerate genuine attempts to pronounce Welsh place names particularly if people ask for help.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:42
ShaunW
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They cant spell their bosses name correctly and you want proper pronunciation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/medi...ral-misspelled

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Old 03-10-2012, 09:44
Babycakes15
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I'm Welsh and it doesn't bother me. It would be nice if they could pronounce it correctly, but it is a very difficult word to say and if people aren't used to pronouncing the 'ch' and ''ll' etc the sound can be quite hard to pronounce
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:38
Stigid
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The BBC has a Pronunciation Unit.
I thought the BBC Pronunciation Unit closed down some years ago
No, not true, they are still very much in existence.

I used them a couple of weeks ago, and again this very morning.
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:29
mikw
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The BBC has a Pronunciation Unit.

The BBC broadcasts nationally across Wales.

You would have thought someone on BBC Breakfast (Manchester) and on BBC News (London) would have checked the correct pronunciation of Machynlleth, with the PU, or with Welsh reporters beforehand.

They had at least 12 hours to do so.

And to then ignore the correct pronunciation as spoken by the Welsh reporters!!!

Even an English approximation would have been nice.

In all cases, eventually, this happened.

After some prompting, it has to be said.

Having worked in Wales, for BBC Wales & HTV, I have seen the disdain Welsh speakers, and non Welsh speaking inhabitants have for bad English pronunciation of Welsh place names.

I am not a Welsh speaker myself, but I have worked with many who are.

The 2001 Census indicated that 70% of the 2000-strong population of Machynlleth have some knowledge of Welsh with 42% able to read, write and speak the language.



The TV presenters do seem to manage to pronounce various "difficult" foreign names after all.

Like i've proved here already, Hugh Edwards is being congratulated for getting it right, but this is at odds with the Sky News Radio pronunciation guide!

There appears to be some disagreement how it is actually said.
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:37
wasa5livefan
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Like i've proved here already, Hugh Edwards is being congratulated for getting it right
Pity you couldn't get his name right, even after all this discussion about Welsh.
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:43
Verence
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Welsh names are difficult.

Pwlheli
Caersws


But there again

Leominster
Towcester
Alnwick
Keynsham
Hawick
Hertsmonceux
Belvoir
Beaulieu
Mousehole
Little Peover
Happisburgh
Cholmondley
Woolfardisworthy

Could you pronounce them all....?
Wymondham
Costessey
Tacolneston
Bungay
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:48
mikw
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Pity you couldn't get his name right, even after all this discussion about Welsh.
Jesus, does it matter how you spell "Hugh" or "Huw"? - it has nothing to do with the discussion here.

There seems to be some disagreement how you pronounce the welsh town though.

Huw apparently said it right, but it differs from the Sky News Radio guide.
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