[jda135]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Channel Four has been struggling to reach a million for a few new commissions. Jay Hunt apparently likes to know the overnights too.

You have to say Channel 4 has done pretty poor in the last few months. Friday Night Dinner and Peep Show on a Sunday, 3 hours of Come Dine With Me a day (!) and shows like Bad Santas and Real Man's Road Trip. There hasn't been much of the so called 'Creative Renewal' yet, and the ratings are showing how bad Channel 4 actually is. Audience share is dipping (it'll probably end the year on 5.6%) and there are very little signs that C4 will pick up in the New Year (remember that C4 have axed Gypsy Weddings).

[RobbieSykes123]

Originally Posted by Re-Minder

Then its Friday rating should go up then, no excuses for a poor show. Text Santa may have Corrie as a lead in but history has shown time again that means nothing.

EE has lost near two million viewers in the last few years, it is not in a good place as audiences for live TV fragment further in the next few years. It will get 8 million on xmas day but DA will trump that by 3 million.

Has EE actually lost viewers, or are people just not watching as often?

It may not be must see TV day in day out, but at Christmas those viewers may come back.

[johnnymc]

Jay Hunt has made no significant impact on channel four's schedule, I'm doubting now if she is all that talented, she comes across on the surface as a devisive figure who seems to be either liked or disliked, she didnt make much of her period at the helm of BBC One and Adrian Chiles seemed to loathe her, she was unable to keep hold of the grinning Bleakley who was considered a BBC face at that time, and I think Victoria Wood also was bumped to a lesser Christmas Eve slot during Hunt's reign and Wood complained she wasn't treated with much care by the BBC to the Guardian by faceless women in suits. I'm not suggesting these were actually bad decisions because perhaps she was thinking of the programmes but she didn't seem to handle people very wisely at BBC One, ie CountryFile Miriam O'reilly and Strictly Arlene Phillips. Does she really have any instinct?

[Re-Minder]

Originally Posted by RobbieSykes123

Has EE actually lost viewers, or are people just not watching as often?

It may not be must see TV day in day out, but at Christmas those viewers may come back.

Good point, i never thought about that.

If EE does see a ratings improvement then i fear the bounce will be short-lived, even ITV seems confident in the placing of DA against EE that their DA will be the drama viewers may prefer.

[iaindb]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Jay Hunt has made no significant impact on channel four's schedule, I'm doubting now if she is all that talented, she comes across on the surface as a devisive figure who seems to be either liked or disliked, she didnt make much of her period at the helm of BBC One and Adrian Chiles seemed to loathe her, she was unable to keep hold of the grinning Bleakley who was considered a BBC face at that time, and I think Victoria Wood also was bumped to a lesser Christmas Eve slot during Hunt's reign and Wood complained she wasn't treated with much care by the BBC to the Guardian by faceless women in suits. I'm not suggesting these were actually bad decisions because perhaps she was thinking of the programmes but she didn't seem to handle people very wisely at BBC One, ie CountryFile Miriam O'reilly and Strictly Arlene Phillips. Does she really have any instinct?

The general consenses was that that Victoria Wood special was poor and its relegation from Christmas Day to Christmas Eve was merited.

[johnnymc]

Originally Posted by iaindb

The general consenses was that that Victoria Wood special was poor and its relegation from Christmas Day to Christmas Eve was merited.

Yep indeed it was, but I think its odd Wood only returned to the BBC One channel after Hunt was gone. And Hunts vision for Four is not quite on screen, she claimed it should be irreverant television 'that punches people in the nose'. Yeah? Celeb Come Dine with Me?? And it has no great comedy any longer despite her saying it should be the channel to grow it from. Also she seems hell bent on filling it with duff Documentaries. Next year it could be beaten into fifth place a lot more.

[cylon6]

Originally Posted by Brekkie

Also it's airing an hour earlier this year with live shows at 6.15pm and results at 8.30pm for the first two weeks.

That scheduling will definitely help Dancing On Ice plus it has no real competition.

Absolutely no chance thanks to stupid C4 schedulers putting it at 8pm against the second half of Corrie and the last ever Merlin. Had they rejigged their schedules and put it at 6.30pm it would probably have done signicantly better.

We've said it millions of times before but Jay Hunt doesn't have a clue when it comes to C4 - and scheduling has let so many shows down over the last year or two. She's scheduling big shows in the same way she'd schedule them if they were on BBC1 - when in reality C4 scheduling has always had to be smarter than that and take it's chances at points where BBC1 and ITV1 are usually weak.

Channel 4 must be pissing away so much money with shit scheduling. Great consolidated figures but low live audiences and live is where the money is made. What an idiot.

I'd guess that's just a typo - it's still showing on Digiguide for the 6th and I'm sure those schedules are locked in now.

Certainly looks like it was a mistake.

[dan2008]

Originally Posted by Re-Minder

Good point, i never thought about that.

If EE does see a ratings improvement then i fear the bounce will be short-lived, even ITV seems confident in the placing of DA against EE that their DA will be the drama viewers may prefer.

You mean like last year when they clashed? EastEnders came out top on Overnights while Downton came just ahead of it in the officials. This will happen again this year.

Last year both EastEnders and Downton started at 9:00pm

Your making it sound like they have never clashed before and that this is the first xmas Downton has gone head to head with EastEnders.

[Brekkie]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Jay Hunt has made no significant impact on channel four's schedule, I'm doubting now if she is all that talented, she comes across on the surface as a devisive figure who seems to be either liked or disliked, she didnt make much of her period at the helm of BBC One and Adrian Chiles seemed to loathe her, she was unable to keep hold of the grinning Bleakley who was considered a BBC face at that time, and I think Victoria Wood also was bumped to a lesser Christmas Eve slot during Hunt's reign and Wood complained she wasn't treated with much care by the BBC to the Guardian by faceless women in suits. I'm not suggesting these were actually bad decisions because perhaps she was thinking of the programmes but she didn't seem to handle people very wisely at BBC One, ie CountryFile Miriam O'reilly and Strictly Arlene Phillips. Does she really have any instinct?

One of C4's biggest problems now is it hasn't really got any out and out stars other than it's dozens of lifestyle show presenters and Alan Carr - and that's because it hasn't really got any hit comedy or entertainment formats and is now severly lacking in the drama department to. The first couple of weeks of January used to see a really strong slate of drama at 10pm - but it's the same old filler light weight documentaries filling the slot in 2013.

It really annoys me when people moan that Big Brother killed C4 - I've always felt Big Brother allowed C4 to be C4 and throughout it's decade on air it had a pretty decent mix of drama, comedy and entertainment alongside a very strong slate of factual content and original lifestyle programming and factual entertainment. Since axing Big Brother C4 is in very short supply of all of the above and seems to be sitting in the bland waters between it's traditional populist and worthier stuff, resulting in schedules full of shows which aren't popular and aren't worthy.

[C14E]

Some things have worked for Channel 4 - Homeland has been a much needed drama success (albeit imported). Plane Crash was a huge success but unfortunately just a one off. 24 Hours in A&E, One Born Every Minute, Coppers and 999: What's Your Emergency all did well as did the Bouncers pilot. The Paralympics were a big success for them.

But comedy is a mess, drama is non-existent and they're extremely short on entertainment. They seem unsure what to do on Fridays - at one point things seemed to move back there (comedy and panel shows) then a lot of it moved away again. And yes, I think they misfired by not getting The Voice.

One of the big issues for Channel 4 is the sheer volume of commissioning that goes on. They've got 8-11pm wide open all year round whereas BBC1/ITV1 need only worry about the 9pm slot for most of the year. So I do think it's a tough job. They've got that scenario where they're constantly launching new shows. It's difficult for them to make a sustained push on one show.

Keep lifestyle, body image, fashion, property and most cooking stuff to the 8pm hour.

From 9pm I'd take one night (probably not Friday) and have a 90 minute or 120 minute comedy block with 30 minute sitcoms all together instead of the current situation where they'll pop up all over the place.

One night for entertainment stuff (9pm-10.30pm) - if Sky1 can get 1.3m for Got To Dance there's no reason Channel 4 shouldn't be able to put together a big shiney floor show and find an audience for it.

One night for drama - a UK drama and a US drama perhaps.

One night for all their ob docs (One Born, 24 Hours...) and some documentary specials.

Friday for gameshows, panel shows and chatshows. Try and launch new gameshows and chatshows to sit alongside MPD and Alan Carr.

Films on Sunday.

Sorted! Now I just need to find a hit entertainment format, a hit gameshow or two to slot share with Million Pound Drop, a few successful sitcoms and Channel 4's first UK hit drama in years. Should be easy...

[Andy Parish]

I ain't got a clue who will win the Christmas Day overnights ..(+vosdal/+1/+timeshift! )

I hate predictions!!

[johnnymc]

Originally Posted by C14E

Some things have worked for Channel 4 - Homeland has been a much needed drama success (albeit imported). Plane Crash was a huge success but unfortunately just a one off. 24 Hours in A&E, One Born Every Minute, Coppers and 999: What's Your Emergency all did well as did the Bouncers pilot. The Paralympics were a big success for them.

But comedy is a mess, drama is non-existent and they're extremely short on entertainment. They seem unsure what to do on Fridays - at one point things seemed to move back there (comedy and panel shows) then a lot of it moved away again. And yes, I think they misfired by not getting The Voice.

One of the big issues for Channel 4 is the sheer volume of commissioning that goes on. They've got 8-11pm wide open all year round whereas BBC1/ITV1 need only worry about the 9pm slot for most of the year. So I do think it's a tough job. They've got that scenario where they're constantly launching new shows. It's difficult for them to make a sustained push on one show.

Keep lifestyle, body image, fashion, property and most cooking stuff to the 8pm hour.

From 9pm I'd take one night (probably not Friday) and have a 90 minute or 120 minute comedy block with 30 minute sitcoms all together instead of the current situation where they'll pop up all over the place.

One night for entertainment stuff (9pm-10.30pm) - if Sky1 can get 1.3m for Got To Dance there's no reason Channel 4 shouldn't be able to put together a big shiney floor show and find an audience for it.

One night for drama - a UK drama and a US drama perhaps.

One night for all their ob docs (One Born, 24 Hours...) and some documentary specials.

Friday for gameshows, panel shows and chatshows. Try and launch new gameshows and chatshows to sit alongside MPD and Alan Carr.

Films on Sunday.

Sorted! Now I just need to find a hit entertainment format, a hit gameshow or two to slot share with Million Pound Drop, a few successful sitcoms and Channel 4's first UK hit drama in years. Should be easy...

Yet on reading her recent interviews Jay Hunt is against having too many fixed points in her Channel Four schedule like Big Brother or a soap, allowing her to be more flexiable with programming ideas. In not having too many fixed slots she indicated she felt able to be more creative with what happened in the evening schedule. It will be interesting and encouraging to see if her tactics could get the channel's ratings to rise in the next year and increase its share.

[Georged123]

The thing with C4 is that it's got a decent number of shows but the scheduling is just dreadful and basically kills off many show's chances of doing well.

The Snowman and The Snowdog is another example of this. It could have been a huge hit for C4 if scheduled well, it has everything going for it but the slot. I agree with the poster that talked about C4 not being big enough to compete against the main two channels and has to pick its spots. I reckon the slot has knocked at least 2m off what it could have got.

[Re-Minder]

Originally Posted by dan2008

You mean like last year when they clashed? EastEnders came out top on Overnights while Downton came just ahead of it in the officials. This will happen again this year.

Last year both EastEnders and Downton started at 9:00pm

Your making it sound like they have never clashed before and that this is the first xmas Downton has gone head to head with EastEnders.

Lets make a bet then, if EE wins then i refrain from commenting on anything EE on DS for a period of one year , if DA wins you don't comment on anything EE for a period of one year. But it has to be on the first run live showing rating, no plus one ect.

Willing to take the wager, if you are confident then like me you will take the bet.

[cylon6]

Originally Posted by dan2008

You mean like last year when they clashed? EastEnders came out top on Overnights while Downton came just ahead of it in the officials. This will happen again this year.

Last year both EastEnders and Downton started at 9:00pm

Your making it sound like they have never clashed before and that this is the first xmas Downton has gone head to head with EastEnders.

EastEnders could be back to the levels of last year on Christmas Day but that's going to be quite a stretch. Not impossible but very difficult.

[Andy Parish]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Jay Hunt has made no significant impact on channel four's schedule, I'm doubting now if she is all that talented, she comes across on the surface as a devisive figure who seems to be either liked or disliked

She's a tool of the highest order and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near future commissioning decisions.

I still love this..

Jay Hunt said: "Big Top is a heart-warming family comedy with real potential to capture the imagination of the BBC One audience with true laugh-out-loud moments"

The Stage said the jokes were "limp and lumbered with punchlines Nostradamus probably saw coming"

The Observer called it "unashamedly lame"

The Times' Caitlin Moran added: "Were the awfulness of Big Top rendered into miles, we could use it as a bridge to the Moon."

Series 2 anyone?

[cylon6]

Originally Posted by Andy Parish

I ain't got a clue who will win the Christmas Day overnights ..(+vosdal/+1/+timeshift! )

I hate predictions!!

You bloody liar!!

[cylon6]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Yet on reading her recent interviews Jay Hunt is against having too many fixed points in her Channel Four schedule like Big Brother or a soap, allowing her to be more flexiable with programming ideas. In not having too many fixed slots she indicated she felt able to be more creative with what happened in the evening schedule. It will be interesting and encouraging to see if her tactics could get the channel's ratings to rise in the next year and increase its share.

Jay Hunt also said Channel 4 should look forward and not back. So no Comic Strip this year...and yet The Snowman returns. Erm. Okay.

[jda135]

Originally Posted by Brekkie

One of C4's biggest problems now is it hasn't really got any out and out stars other than it's dozens of lifestyle show presenters and Alan Carr - and that's because it hasn't really got any hit comedy or entertainment formats and is now severly lacking in the drama department to. The first couple of weeks of January used to see a really strong slate of drama at 10pm - but it's the same old filler light weight documentaries filling the slot in 2013.

It really annoys me when people moan that Big Brother killed C4 - I've always felt Big Brother allowed C4 to be C4 and throughout it's decade on air it had a pretty decent mix of drama, comedy and entertainment alongside a very strong slate of factual content and original lifestyle programming and factual entertainment. Since axing Big Brother C4 is in very short supply of all of the above and seems to be sitting in the bland waters between it's traditional populist and worthier stuff, resulting in schedules full of shows which aren't popular and aren't worthy.

I agree with your point on Big Brother. C4 looks very empty at the moment.

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Jay Hunt has made no significant impact on channel four's schedule, I'm doubting now if she is all that talented, she comes across on the surface as a devisive figure who seems to be either liked or disliked, she didnt make much of her period at the helm of BBC One and Adrian Chiles seemed to loathe her, she was unable to keep hold of the grinning Bleakley who was considered a BBC face at that time, and I think Victoria Wood also was bumped to a lesser Christmas Eve slot during Hunt's reign and Wood complained she wasn't treated with much care by the BBC to the Guardian by faceless women in suits. I'm not suggesting these were actually bad decisions because perhaps she was thinking of the programmes but she didn't seem to handle people very wisely at BBC One, ie CountryFile Miriam O'reilly and Strictly Arlene Phillips. Does she really have any instinct?

Hunt has no eye for talent. Her people handling skills are well documented. Why C4 hired her I will never know.

Originally Posted by C14E

Some things have worked for Channel 4 - Homeland has been a much needed drama success (albeit imported). Plane Crash was a huge success but unfortunately just a one off. 24 Hours in A&E, One Born Every Minute, Coppers and 999: What's Your Emergency all did well as did the Bouncers pilot. The Paralympics were a big success for them.

But comedy is a mess, drama is non-existent and they're extremely short on entertainment. They seem unsure what to do on Fridays - at one point things seemed to move back there (comedy and panel shows) then a lot of it moved away again. And yes, I think they misfired by not getting The Voice.

One of the big issues for Channel 4 is the sheer volume of commissioning that goes on. They've got 8-11pm wide open all year round whereas BBC1/ITV1 need only worry about the 9pm slot for most of the year. So I do think it's a tough job. They've got that scenario where they're constantly launching new shows. It's difficult for them to make a sustained push on one show.

Keep lifestyle, body image, fashion, property and most cooking stuff to the 8pm hour.

From 9pm I'd take one night (probably not Friday) and have a 90 minute or 120 minute comedy block with 30 minute sitcoms all together instead of the current situation where they'll pop up all over the place.

One night for entertainment stuff (9pm-10.30pm) - if Sky1 can get 1.3m for Got To Dance there's no reason Channel 4 shouldn't be able to put together a big shiney floor show and find an audience for it.

One night for drama - a UK drama and a US drama perhaps.

One night for all their ob docs (One Born, 24 Hours...) and some documentary specials.

Friday for gameshows, panel shows and chatshows. Try and launch new gameshows and chatshows to sit alongside MPD and Alan Carr.

Films on Sunday.

Sorted! Now I just need to find a hit entertainment format, a hit gameshow or two to slot share with Million Pound Drop, a few successful sitcoms and Channel 4's first UK hit drama in years. Should be easy...

I don't agree with theme nights. You have to balance it out so your audiences are attracted to more than one type of programme (e.g. Sunday night - Gameshow, US Drama, Comedy).

I think C4 on Friday's should be a mix of sitcoms, gameshows and chat shows. Maybe like this;

7.30pm - How I Met Your Mother/ 2 Broke Girls
8.00pm - Live Deal Or No Deal (£1million, no dream factory, models like the original version)
9.00pm - The Big Bang Theory
9.30pm - Million Pound Drop/Popstars/Britain's Next Top Model
10.30pm - Alan Carr: Chatty Man/Original British Comedy

[sheepiefarm]

Originally Posted by dan2008

You mean like last year when they clashed? EastEnders came out top on Overnights while Downton came just ahead of it in the officials. This will happen again this year.

Last year both EastEnders and Downton started at 9:00pm

Your making it sound like they have never clashed before and that this is the first xmas Downton has gone head to head with EastEnders.

BIB - That's a mighty statement
But I fear it is said out of blind faith rather than reasoned judgement.
Last years Xmas DA came on the back of (what was seen by some) a weak 2nd series.
The Xmas ep this year follows on from a strong 3rd series.

EE is not rating as well as it has done of late - though there is no doubt the Xmas day ep will gather up it's current floating viewers on the day and I don't see the offerings elsewhere as strong enough to take them away.

However - I wouldn't be as blindly confident as you appear to be Dan - I think it's far more open than you care to acknowledge

[cylon6]

Originally Posted by Georged123

The thing with C4 is that it's got a decent number of shows but the scheduling is just dreadful and basically kills off many show's chances of doing well.

The Snowman and The Snowdog is another example of this. It could have been a huge hit for C4 if scheduled well, it has everything going for it but the slot. I agree with the poster that talked about C4 not being big enough to compete against the main two channels and has to pick its spots. I reckon the slot has knocked at least 2m off what it could have got.

Now this is the real problem some poor scheduling is really hurting them. It can cost the channel a fortune in lost revenue.

[guestofseth]

Originally Posted by sheepiefarm

BIB - That's a mighty statement
But I fear it is said out of blind faith rather than reasoned judgement.
Last years Xmas DA came on the back of (what was seen by some) a weak 2nd series.
The Xmas ep this year follows on from a strong 3rd series.

That didn't affect it's ratings though did it? In my opinion series 3 wasn't that much better than series 2, it was just more enjoyable for all the wrong reasons, I treat it more as a comedy than a soap/drama now.

That said, I'm not sure how it will go but I don't think Eastenders will do as badly as some people assume.

[cylon6]

Originally Posted by sheepiefarm

BIB - That's a mighty statement
But I fear it is said out of blind faith rather than reasoned judgement.
Last years Xmas DA came on the back of (what was seen by some) a weak 2nd series.
The Xmas ep this year follows on from a strong 3rd series.

EE is not rating as well as it has done of late - though there is no doubt the Xmas day ep will gather up it's current floating viewers on the day and I don't see the offerings elsewhere as strong enough to take them away.

However - I wouldn't be as blindly confident as you appear to be Dan - I think it's far more open than you care to acknowledge

And this is my reasoning as to why I think saying EastEnders will see a big rise on Christmas Day seems almost unlikely. Downton is hot going into Christmas and EastEnders isn't. I could be wrong of course but I can't see this rise coming.

[C14E]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Yet on reading her recent interviews Jay Hunt is against having too many fixed points in her Channel Four schedule like Big Brother or a soap, allowing her to be more flexiable with programming ideas. In not having too many fixed slots she indicated she felt able to be more creative with what happened in the evening schedule. It will be interesting and encouraging to see if her tactics could get the channel's ratings to rise in the next year and increase its share.

It's the same problem ITV had with so many dramas earlier in the autumn - they wheeled out loads of them in a short space of time to decreasing returns. The big 4 can't guarantee a particularly large audience these days. Viewers don't have to try something on one of those channels and they won't necessarily be aware of promotion if they're being bombarded with different new series all the time. If nothing catches their eye on the EPG they'll go and watch repeats of comfortable brands on Dave or E4. So you end up heading towards a situation where the only way C4 can get an audience is to have a show with a wacky title that stands out on the EPG.

I don't think it should be the same shows in all the slots like Corrie or The One Show. But there should be a framework in place with shows paired up that might actually keep an audience for more than an hour. Whereby people can get an idea of what to expect in the slot so as when one series finishes, they'll probably come back to C4 the next week in the same slot to watch something new but similar. It might also give some structure to their commissioning and force them to push ahead in drama or entertainment.

Originally Posted by jda135

I don't agree with theme nights. You have to balance it out so your audiences are attracted to more than one type of programme (e.g. Sunday night - Gameshow, US Drama, Comedy).

It's not theme nights as such - all the 8pm hours would keep their lifestyle programming as usual. The comedy block works for E4 and every US network aspires to have one. It's more effective than having them dotted all over the place. Ideally Channel 4 want to hold onto the 9pm audience into the 10pm hour instead of them going over to the news or just switching off. Providing compatible programming would work towards this. I think across the week they should be casting a wide net but not trying to hit every audience in one night. You can't please all of the people all of the time!

[RobbieSykes123]

Will Downton be affected by the fact last year was a proper Christmas special with a gorgeous tree (apparently; this seemed to be the big selling point last year...), whereas this year it is set in Scotland during a summer shooting holiday, I understand.

Sounds riveting. Could viewers drift towards The Royle Family after an hour, or am I clutching at straws?