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Merlin Series 5 - discussion, speculation and spoilers (in tags!) (Part 2)


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Old 22-12-2012, 20:38
franster
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Tonights episode encapsulates perfectly why this is such a frustrating show to watch - Merlin has no magic and Morgana inexplicably brings a wall of stone down in front of Merlin and wanders off instead of killing the only person that can stop her - ridiculous.....

It is possible to do sci-fi believably - this is not it.
It is ridiculous. They have made Morgana so powerful that she has to be completely incompetent (has Gwen in her grasp, turns her into a deer), they've also had to make Merlin so stupid/'good' that whenever he has her in his grasp he just leaves her.
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Old 22-12-2012, 20:40
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Emrys reveals to Arthur then....
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Old 22-12-2012, 20:40
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wrong thread
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Old 22-12-2012, 20:44
CD93
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Preview clip from the Beeb...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_iqPfm6a8s
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Old 22-12-2012, 20:52
Lowri
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Emrys reveals to Arthur then....
I did wonder if the usually dim Arthur did twig? He started to say "sounded like..." and then stopped but he knew it wasn't an ordinary dream.

*fingers crossed*
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:13
mikey1980
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Tonights episode encapsulates perfectly why this is such a frustrating show to watch - Merlin has no magic and Morgana inexplicably brings a wall of stone down in front of Merlin and wanders off instead of killing the only person that can stop her - ridiculous.....

It is possible to do sci-fi believably - this is not it.
I'm afraid it's nothing if not consistent with the series as a whole. How many times do cloaked, suspicious-looking people manage to find their way into the mighty walled citadel of Camelot? We saw it again tonight. A cloaked figure, granted, in the shadows, but even so, still in view of the armed gaurds, finds his way into the fortress, and manages to leave Morgana's gift for Merlin right under his bed. Week after week, people find their way into Camelot, it's the most badly defended of cities.

It's a superficially entertaining series, but it's not truly satisfying because of the very obvious plot-holes.
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:15
bgtension
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In Arthurian legend how old was Merlin meant to be compared to Arthur?
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:32
Dave_Jones
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i know after watching the episode we are all thinking is merlin gonna stay old sandi wrote before saying she misunderstood something and she has now reveal what she misunderstood.

Spoiler


so



Spoiler
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:44
moleymo
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i know after watching the episode we are all thinking is merlin gonna stay old sandi wrote before saying she misunderstood something and she has now reveal what she misunderstood.

Spoiler


so



Spoiler
Sandy thought it was mordred saying he was a sorcerer she thought it was his voice
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:46
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Sandy thought it was mordred saying he was a sorcerer she thought it was his voice
Sandy sounds like he/she shouldn't post things that they do not know
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:49
moleymo
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Sandy sounds like he/she shouldn't post things that they do not know
Sandy is great she really tries to answer everyone's questions even with an embargo even when everyone gets mad with her because nothing is going how people want it to go
You can imagine the pressure she is under poor lass
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:51
Dave_Jones
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really because she thought it was merlin as emrys at first thats why she misunderstood she thought it was emrys not young merlin thats why she took the hangman down
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Old 22-12-2012, 21:55
moleymo
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really because she thought it was merlin as emrys at first thats why she misunderstood she thought it was emrys not young merlin thats why she took the hangman down
She said it was mordred who said those lines
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Old 22-12-2012, 22:56
Lucia77
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i know after watching the episode we are all thinking is merlin gonna stay old sandi wrote before saying she misunderstood something and she has now reveal what she misunderstood.

Spoiler


so



Spoiler
Can't tell you how happy I am to hear that, Dave. I was so dissapointed at the prospect of Merlin being
Spoiler
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:14
Cadiva
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Yeah it's really sad I would have expected a completely different outcome I argued with Cadiva for weeks saying they would never do that on a family show
Being a family show doesn't mean it's neutered. It's not aimed at six-year-olds but those aged eight and above in most cases and 12 and above for a specific number of episodes.

If the ending is sad, why? As you say, it's a family show, not a little kid's show. It has no obligation to mollycoddle and wrap the viewers in cotton wool.

I must be one of the very few who is very excited for the ending, moreso because it sounds like it's not taking the easy, "and they all lived happily" way out.
I totally agree about the family show aspect. As soon as they began referring to the more traditional aspects of the legends it was clear where it was going to end - with the Battle of Camlann and Arthur's death.
They mentioned it as early as EP08 in S1 so it's always been there in the back of everyone's mind and the possibility of it has always been there. If they hadn't almost got cancelled after S2 then perhaps they would have left the show with Arthur as King and Merlin as his openly magic sorcerer but it became very clear as soon as S3 started that they were moving towards the traditional version of Arthur's fate.
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:16
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Being a family show doesn't mean it's neutered. It's not aimed at six-year-olds but those aged eight and above in most cases and 12 and above for a specific number of episodes.
Im sure both discs in the first dvd box of series 5 are labelled 12 and I rekon the same will be said for the second boxset.
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:16
moleymo
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Being a family show doesn't mean it's neutered. It's not aimed at six-year-olds but those aged eight and above in most cases and 12 and above for a specific number of episodes.



I totally agree about the family show aspect. As soon as they began referring to the more traditional aspects of the legends it was clear where it was going to end - with the Battle of Camlann and Arthur's death.
They mentioned it as early as EP08 in S1 so it's always been there in the back of everyone's mind and the possibility of it has always been there. If they hadn't almost got cancelled after S2 then perhaps they would have left the show with Arthur as King and Merlin as his openly magic sorcerer but it became very clear as soon as S3 started that they were moving towards the traditional version of Arthur's fate.
I don't think it's ever been clear its going to end with Arthur's death, even this week merlin escapes at the last minute his dad tells him his destiny is just beginning that's all false hope
Merlins destiny has always been to save Arthur and help him reunite Albion into the golden age
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:18
Cadiva
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I think they would have done a whole series with Arthur knowing about merlins magic, it seems he natural progression and at least an attempt at the golden age as promised
I don't think they would, they've never seen Merlin's magic being revealed as part of the show they're telling. If there'd been a sixth season I would have expected very much a repeat of S4 during this year, more villain of the week versus Morgana gathering her army and Merlin merrily buggering about in the background.
I think they've always intended to leave as little time as possible for the Merlin magic reveal - they've always said they are inspired by Smallville and in that Clark Kent's iconic Superman identity with the blue, red and yellow suit is only revealed in the final shot of the show.

I don't think it's ever been clear its going to end with Arthur's death, even this week merlin escapes at the last minute his dad tells him his destiny is just beginning that's all false hope
Merlins destiny has always been to save Arthur and help him reunite Albion into the golden age
I have to disagree, I think since Episode Eight of S1, when the Great Dragon warned Merlin about Mordred, the show has very clearly been laying the pathwork for the traditional Battle of Camlann ending being referred to.

The narrative might continue to have mentioned the founding of Albion and the creation of a Golden Age but the show's cannon has very clearly shown Merlin failing at every step of the way towards creating it (for whatever reason in TPTB's heads).
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:24
Cadiva
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In Arthurian legend how old was Merlin meant to be compared to Arthur?
Merlin is an old man, his age is never given, but probably in his 80s when Arthur is a teenager.
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:31
moleymo
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I have to disagree, I think since Episode Eight of S1, when the Great Dragon warned Merlin about Mordred, the show has very clearly been laying the pathwork for the traditional Battle of Camlann ending being referred to.

The narrative might continue to have mentioned the founding of Albion and the creation of a Golden Age but the show's cannon has very clearly shown Merlin failing at every step of the way towards creating it (for whatever reason in TPTB's heads).
But he's still promised it every week, no one told him give up its useless now too late game over!
And I still think its really sad that the moral of the story is merlin should have killed mordred when he was still a child and Morgana while she was still good
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:33
Cadiva
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But he's still promised it every week, no one told him give up its useless now too late game over!
I know, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed. There'd not be much of an audience if the show said "bugger it Merlin, you can't achieve the prophesy for various reasons so you might as well give it up now"
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:45
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How come Camelot has such a small army? How has morgana managed to build an army that outnumbers camelots by 5 to 1 by just finding Saxon mercenaries?
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:50
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I know, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed. There'd not be much of an audience if the show said "bugger it Merlin, you can't achieve the prophesy for various reasons so you might as well give it up now"
So you don't think at the end we are going to be left with the concept that Merlin hasn't failed, it is simply that he hasn't succeeded yet? That is what I am imagining, I suppose, because I still can't believe that after 5 series of saying Merlin is going to be the greatest sorcerer ever and Arthur will unite Albion, what we will actually get is Merlin's failure and Arthur's death. I am presuming we are going to be told that the story isn't really over and that Merlin is simply going to have to wait for the reincarnated Arthur to carry on with their destiny.
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:54
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[quote=Cadiva;63139058]I have to disagree, I think since Episode Eight of S1, when the Great Dragon warned Merlin about Mordred, the show has very clearly been laying the pathwork for the traditional Battle of Camlann ending being referred to.[quote]

I always thought they could certainly end the show at the start of the Golden Age with Arthur and Gwen on the throne, Merlin at his side as advisor, Morgana reconciled with Camelot and off on the Isle of the Blessed and Mordred away somewhere ready to fulfil his destiny. At the same time they could have left heavy hints about what was to come - have Morgana have a final vision of Camlann, have Gwen and and Lancelot share a look that has Merlin worried, have Mordred in court giving a sinister look...A much smarter decision imo because it actually would have left it open for the films if they wanted You can still have lots of drama and people get the golden age they want but with the clear indication that it's not destined to last. Seems like the best of both worlds to me!

The narrative might continue to have mentioned the founding of Albion and the creation of a Golden Age but the show's cannon has very clearly shown Merlin failing at every step of the way towards creating it (for whatever reason in TPTB's heads).
Yeah Merlin's not got the greatest of track records at the juncture.

I really would like to ask them why they believe their Merlin and Arthur would be remembered for anything to become legendary figures. Arthur wouldn't be remembered at all - he's really done absolutely nothing, tbh Uther achieved more than he ever did worryingly enough! - and Merlin can only be remembered for his many screw ups that led to failure.

Not exactly the stuff of legends!

I know, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed. There'd not be much of an audience if the show said "bugger it Merlin, you can't achieve the prophesy for various reasons so you might as well give it up now"
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Old 22-12-2012, 23:56
Cadiva
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So you don't think at the end we are going to be left with the concept that Merlin hasn't failed, it is simply that he hasn't succeeded yet? That is what I am imagining, I suppose, because I still can't believe that after 5 series of saying Merlin is going to be the greatest sorcerer ever and Arthur will unite Albion, what we will actually get is Merlin's failure and Arthur's death. I am presuming we are going to be told that the story isn't really over and that Merlin is simply going to have to wait for the reincarnated Arthur to carry on with their destiny.
They've utterly forgotten about Albion as far as I can tell. Although Arthur did mention it again, going so far as to also mention the "United Kingdoms" so I very much expect we're going to see a segue through to the present day with some explanation of the Arthurian legend we are all so familiar with - Arthur uniting the disparate kingdoms into what we now know as the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) and Merlin in his old man guise being the one who explained how it all came about after the Battle of Camlann.

I always thought they could certainly end the show at the start of the Golden Age with Arthur and Gwen on the throne, Merlin at his side as advisor, Morgana reconciled with Camelot and off on the Isle of the Blessed and Mordred away somewhere ready to fulfil his destiny.
I think that's probably what they would have gone for had they not had the almost cancellation at the end of S2. I think they would have finished with the beginning of the Golden Age, the founding of Albion and Merlin's magic no longer being a secret.
I think they would have left Morgana and Mordred in the background as the ultimate threat for the "traditional" ending of Camelot and Arthur's demise at the Battle of Camlann though. I think there'd have been some kind of vision or some comment to refer to the traditional mythology's ending.

I really would like to ask them why they believe their Merlin and Arthur would be remembered for anything to become legendary figures. Arthur wouldn't be remembered at all - he's really done absolutely nothing, tbh Uther achieved more than he ever did worryingly enough! - and Merlin can only be remembered for his many screw ups that led to failure.

Not exactly the stuff of legends!
Honestly, because I think their big twisty ending is going to be that it was Merlin himself who created the "legends" in the first place and that Arthur didn't create Albion, it occurred after his death at the Battle of Camlann and that it became what we know now as the "United Kingdom" (of GB and NI) as was mentioned in Arthur's great speech before the battle.

I think they're going for the "this is what REALLY happened!" option in their interpretation and that Albion and the Golden Age were always stories created by Merlin after Arthur's death.
After all, isn't that how most mythology or legend begins, with only an element of truth
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