[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

It's sick when someone can't tell the difference between a natural thing which is sexuality of whatever kind and a perversion like paedophilia.

And yet it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality : children were being abused by adults for centuries and long before things like child pornography and words like paedophilia were even heard of.

There are numerous anecdotal reports of people still alive who say they were molested by adults in the 1930s, 40s and 50s at a time when there was no discussion whatsoever of adults being interested in children.

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

And yet it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality : children were being abused by adults for centuries and long before things like child pornography and words like paedophilia were even heard of.

There are numerous anecdotal reports of people still alive who say they were molested by adults in the 1930s, 40s and 50s at a time when there was no discussion whatsoever of adults being interested in children.

Please don't patronise me.

I've been on this earth for over 50 years and I'm perfectly aware that paedophilia has been part of the human experience since Adam was a lad.

[kaybee15]

Originally Posted by belinus

it is natural for one and a half percent of the population, it is not normal for the remaining 98.5 percent, therefore by scientific evaluation, it is not normal.

The simple fact is homosexuality cannot breed children but it can steal and programme the children of others.

That my good man is fact

Actually it's nearer to 8 - 10 per cent, particularly in males. Doesn't bear ANY correlation to paedophilia. At All.

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

Please don't patronise me.

I've been on this earth for over 50 years and I'm perfectly aware that paedophilia has been part of the human experience since Adam was a lad.

I'm not attempting to patronise you but am saying that it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality and may well be a sexual orientation in it's own right : an undesirable one certainly for many reasons, but a very real one too.

[IzzyS]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

And yet it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality : children were being abused by adults for centuries and long before things like child pornography and words like paedophilia were even heard of.

There are numerous anecdotal reports of people still alive who say they were molested by adults in the 1930s, 40s and 50s at a time when there was no discussion whatsoever of adults being interested in children.

Yes, there has to be a natural element to it, to some extent in as much as the urge to have physical/sexual contact is something that presumably exists within those people - I suppose its a nature vs nurture debate (ie for nurture, what they see and may have experienced themselves) as to how they get those urges but at the end of the day, they feel what they feel and they want to act on it. Its a bodily reaction - if they didn't feel attracted to children in the first place then it would never happen in the first place surely?.

ETA - perhaps biological is a better term to use than natural as such? just a thought.

[Saltydog1955]

Sounded patronising to me.....moving on.....

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

Please don't patronise me.

I've been on this earth for over 50 years and I'm perfectly aware that paedophilia has been part of the human experience since Adam was a lad.

It can't have been, because Adam was never a lad, he was made as a full-grown man ('God created man'). Also, in Adam's early days, there weren't actually any children, only Eve, a fully-grown woman.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

I'm not attempting to patronise you but am saying that it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality and may well be a sexual orientation in it's own right : an undesirable one certainly for many reasons, but a very real one too.

I think the quibble is that it's being equated with homosexuality, as if both are simply contentious issues. Surely anyone can see the stupidity in 2013 of drawing parallels beyween homosexuality and paedophilia merely because both are seen as 'unnatural' and 'perverted' by some unenlightened minority? Even talking about the two in the same breath is offensive IMO and reeks of bigotry.

...................................

As for homosexuality 'stealing and programming children', well, there aren't enough eye-rolls in the world to respond adequately to that.

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Lazarus

It can't have been, because Adam was never a lad, he was made as a full-grown man ('God created man'). Also, in Adam's early days, there weren't actually any children, only Eve, a fully-grown woman.

Pick, pick, pick.......

[markybaby]

Originally Posted by belinus

it is natural for one and a half percent of the population, it is not normal for the remaining 98.5 percent, therefore by scientific evaluation, it is not normal.

What are you talking about you utter fool? Just because you are not something does not mean it is not normal. Does this apply to hair colour. Not normal to be ginger then? What about eye colour? Or religious beliefs? Who is not normal there then? I am not a tree but I am pretty sure they are normal. I am staggered you are happy for your thoughts to be in public view. I would be horrified with myself. But then again I am normal.

[alfster]

Originally Posted by lexi22

I think the quibble is that it's being equated with homosexuality, as if both are simply contentious issues. Surely anyone can see the stupidity in 2013 of drawing parallels beyween homosexuality and paedophilia merely because both are seen as 'unnatural' and 'perverted' by some unenlightened minority? Even talking about the two in the same breath is offensive IMO and reeks of bigotry.

...................................

As for homosexuality 'stealing and programming children', well, there aren't enough eye-rolls in the world to respond adequately to that.

Also, although it could be argued that for some people it is natural to be attracted to pre-pubescent children because it is the way their brains are wired in the same way that gay people are attracted to their own sex because of the way their brains are wired, paedophilia is also about power over people rather than anything sexual in many cases - children are easy targets for people who need to have power off others.

Either way power or attraction it is still obviously 'wrong' - but should people who prey on children for those things be 'treated' in the same way?

[nanscombe]

More likely "child abuse" is about power over people rather than paedophilia.

[clemmati]

Originally Posted by belinus

Perhaps there is just no satisfying you dear, suffice to say my point in this matter was that from on high, there are moves to make sexual relations with children the normal and accepted way to live, just like today it is more cool to be gay than not, so say the 1 and a half % .

Didn't you get banned for promoting your own website -- life in the mix -- last time you did it, dear?

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by lexi22

I think the quibble is that it's being equated with homosexuality, as if both are simply contentious issues. Surely anyone can see the stupidity in 2013 of drawing parallels beyween homosexuality and paedophilia merely because both are seen as 'unnatural' and 'perverted' by some unenlightened minority? Even talking about the two in the same breath is offensive IMO and reeks of bigotry.

...................................

As for homosexuality 'stealing and programming children', well, there aren't enough eye-rolls in the world to respond adequately to that.

Agree that it is very unhelpful to compare paedophilia to homosexuality. Sex between two consenting adults is fine but between a child and an adult is hugely problematic (which is why I don't think it will ever be legalised).

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

Yes, there has to be a natural element to it, to some extent in as much as the urge to have physical/sexual contact is something that presumably exists within those people - I suppose its a nature vs nurture debate (ie for nurture, what they see and may have experienced themselves) as to how they get those urges but at the end of the day, they feel what they feel and they want to act on it. Its a bodily reaction - if they didn't feel attracted to children in the first place then it would never happen in the first place surely?.

ETA - perhaps biological is a better term to use than natural as such? just a thought.

It's very hard to tell where it comes from Izzy and how much nature or nurture it comes from. But it seems to be widespread across all cultures and has been around for centuries suggesting that it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality and is probably a sexual orientation in itself.

That doesn't mean anyone wants to see it legalised or normalised though. I don't see any benefit for children to have adults sexually interested in them. But accepting that it is a part of human sexuality might make society more tolerant and understanding when trying to deal with those with that inclination.

[belinus]

I understand the subject of homosexuality still begets a vociferous response, but that was not my intention at all.

The parallel I make is in the ability for big agenda driven finance to conjurer miracles when it comes to turning a minority behaviour into a fully accepted and promoted norm, against the overwhelming majority of people who would not take part in the activity promoted.

[skp20040]

Originally Posted by belinus

it is natural for one and a half percent of the population, it is not normal for the remaining 98.5 percent, therefore by scientific evaluation, it is not normal.

The simple fact is homosexuality cannot breed children but it can steal and programme the children of others.

That my good man is fact

If you spend much more time on that fence you will have splinters up your bum.

But then you are not really on the fence are you, with statements like

Originally Posted by belinus

[b]
The simple fact is homosexuality cannot breed children but it can steal and programme the children of others.

That my good man is fact

I think we can see your agenda very clearly, as in you always infer peadophilia is connected with homosexuality, I say infer this time its pretty blatant .

[skp20040]

Originally Posted by belinus

I understand the subject of homosexuality still begets a vociferous response, but that was not my intention at all.

The parallel I make is in the ability for big agenda driven finance to conjurer miracles when it comes to turning a minority behaviour into a fully accepted and promoted norm, against the overwhelming majority of people who would not take part in the activity promoted.

Sorry but thats bollox and you obviously have a thing about homosexuality.

No group of paedophiles is going to make the rest of the world think that adults having sex with young children is ok as a sexual choice , and you cannot use people accepting homosexuality as normal as an argument for that , sensible progression is one thing , accepting sex crimes against children as the norm is quite another and will never happen .

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by belinus

I understand the subject of homosexuality still begets a vociferous response, but that was not my intention at all.

The parallel I make is in the ability for big agenda driven finance to conjurer miracles when it comes to turning a minority behaviour into a fully accepted and promoted norm, against the overwhelming majority of people who would not take part in the activity promoted.

What a load of drivel. The only thing your posts 'beget' is a not even cleverly disguised, religion-driven agenda against gay people.

[alfster]

Originally Posted by skp20040

S
No group of paedophiles is going to make the rest of the world think that adults having sex with young children is ok as a sexual choice ,.

NAMBLA keep on trying:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...ve_Association

I daren't put a link to their actually site in case the post gets pulled for some reason.

[markybaby]

Originally Posted by belinus

I understand the subject of homosexuality still begets a vociferous response, but that was not my intention at all.

The parallel I make is in the ability for big agenda driven finance to conjurer miracles when it comes to turning a minority behaviour into a fully accepted and promoted norm, against the overwhelming majority of people who would not take part in the activity promoted.

But not taking part does not mean the activity is wrong. Homosexual relationships are a normal part of evolution/gods creation. Child abuse is just that. Abuse. Of course homosexual people had an agenda. They were terribly discriminated against for no other reason than people did not like the fact that they were gay. Fortunately society (most of it) has grown up enough to realise that they are absolutely right and free to be gay. A paedophile creates a distorted relationship with a vulnerable human being. That is why it is wrong and illegal. The bible never mentions paedophilia as a sin. Not sure why but as a rule book to follow it has some pretty massive holes in it.

[skp20040]

Originally Posted by alfster

NAMBLA keep on trying:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...ve_Association

I daren't put a link to their actually site in case the post gets pulled for some reason.

They can try all they like, you see to me the majority of us will never fall for it.

If I heard a situation of a 15 year old girl / boy having an affair with a 17 year year old man / woman then I would think , well yes its illegal but its only two years age difference before going a legal route lets look at the whole story, is it a genuine relationship or does the older person make a habit of this., there are some laws that can be bent as such as they will not be in the public interest to follow up.

However if I heard a story (when I say story I do mean that it has been proven not a rumour ) of a 40 year old man/woman having sex with a 10 year old I would want them arrested as there could never be any mitigating circumstances , and no group will ever chnage my mind on that however hard they may try.

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by belinus

I understand the subject of homosexuality still begets a vociferous response, but that was not my intention at all.

The parallel I make is in the ability for big agenda driven finance to conjurer miracles when it comes to turning a minority behaviour into a fully accepted and promoted norm, against the overwhelming majority of people who would not take part in the activity promoted.

I didn't understand a word of that.

Apart from the inference in many of your posts that you regard homosexuality as somehow 'abnormal'.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by alfster

Also, although it could be argued that for some people it is natural to be attracted to pre-pubescent children because it is the way their brains are wired in the same way that gay people are attracted to their own sex because of the way their brains are wired, paedophilia is also about power over people rather than anything sexual in many cases - children are easy targets for people who need to have power off others.

Either way power or attraction it is still obviously 'wrong' - but should people who prey on children for those things be 'treated' in the same way?

BIB - Not sure I understand what you mean above - 'rather than anything sexual in many cases'?

Paedophilia is defined as sexual attraction to chldren, the crime is acting upon that attraction - ie. sexually. If it's just a power/physical-but-non-sexual abuse 'relationship', then we're not talking about paedophilia, we're talking about child abuse, which is not paedophilia.

[belinus]

Originally Posted by lexi22

What a load of drivel. The only thing your posts 'beget' is a not even cleverly disguised, religion-driven agenda against gay people.

I can assure you there is no agenda, I am merely pointing out facts as I see them as cause for the rise of such a small group of people able to influence almost all aspects of society, not so much in a physical from but in the demand for the removal of the idea of heterosexuality as the standard.

Even by one posters claim to be a 10% split between the two, it is still a reality that is a very small minority.

Sorry you fail to comprehend my posts, but this is not an attack on the gay community, but I am against your lobbying behaviour and aims, and whether you agree with them or not I am entitled to speak of it, in spite of the exceedingly puerile cries of homophobia, we the majority are allowed to speak our opinions outside your beliefs.

It is like the tables have turned, am I not allowed to poke in to your personal religion, because you hare successfully poked into the countries.
Ge real will you.