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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 08-01-2013, 23:24
skp20040
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I can assure you there is no agenda, I am merely pointing out facts as I see them as cause for the rise of such a small group of people able to influence almost all aspects of society, not so much in a physical from but in the demand for the removal of the idea of heterosexuality as the standard.

Even by one posters claim to be a 10% split between the two, it is still a reality that is a very small minority.

Sorry you fail to comprehend my posts, but this is not an attack on the gay community, but I am against your lobbying behaviour and aims, and whether you agree with them or not I am entitled to speak of it, in spite of the exceedingly puerile cries of homophobia, we the majority are allowed to speak our opinions outside your beliefs.

It is like the tables have turned, am I not allowed to poke in to your personal religion, because you hare successfully poked into the countries.
Ge real will you.
I am sure you can poke all you like, but if as you say there is no agenda against homosexuality or to infer their connection with paedophilia why not use another example for a while , as has been said Ginger Hair for example
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:27
Saltydog1955
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I can assure you there is no agenda, I am merely pointing out facts as I see them as cause for the rise of such a small group of people able to influence almost all aspects of society, not so much in a physical from but in the demand for the removal of the idea of heterosexuality as the standard.

Even by one posters claim to be a 10% split between the two, it is still a reality that is a very small minority.

Sorry you fail to comprehend my posts, but this is not an attack on the gay community, but I am against your lobbying behaviour and aims, and whether you agree with them or not I am entitled to speak of it, in spite of the exceedingly puerile cries of homophobia, we the majority are allowed to speak our opinions outside your beliefs.

It is like the tables have turned, am I not allowed to poke in to your personal religion, because you hare successfully poked into the countries.
Ge real will you.
I think you're the one who needs to 'get real', become more comprehensible and use a spellchecker
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:31
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@ me 'lobbying'!

Fair enough. If pointing out utter bilge is lobbying, then lobbying I am.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:32
belinus
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I am sure you can poke all you like, but if as you say there is no agenda against homosexuality or to infer their connection with paedophilia why not use another example for a while , as has been said Ginger Hair for example
The are of the same taboo, sexual behaviour

But let us be frank here it is you guys dragging out the side issue of homosexuality, the topic is sex with under-age children, and as i continue to repeat, there are powerful forces pushing to liberalise sex with children. And as uncomfortable as the subject matter is today, it was the same for the side issue pre-Bohemia and the 1960's when sex became a loveless hunt for heterosexuals.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:34
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It's very hard to tell where it comes from Izzy and how much nature or nurture it comes from. But it seems to be widespread across all cultures and has been around for centuries suggesting that it seems to be an inherent part of human sexuality and is probably a sexual orientation in itself.

That doesn't mean anyone wants to see it legalised or normalised though. I don't see any benefit for children to have adults sexually interested in them. But accepting that it is a part of human sexuality might make society more tolerant and understanding when trying to deal with those with that inclination.
Yes, well they say knowledge is power, hopefully education and research could perhaps point to new ways to help identify such people and prevent criminal acts from happening, which would of course be a good thing. There have to be people willing to talk in depth to such people and try and analyse their thought patterns, try and figure out where abusive thoughts and desires may have come from, for that to be possible?. Throwing such people into a cell for a limited number of years in and of itself isn't going to help us learn anything to help us prevent future abuse, thats for sure...
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:35
Saltydog1955
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The are of the same taboo, sexual behaviour

But let us be frank here it is you guys dragging out the side issue of homosexuality, the topic is sex with under-age children, and as i continue to repeat, there are powerful forces pushing to liberalise sex with children. And as uncomfortable as the subject matter is today, it was the same for the side issue pre-Bohemia and the 1960's when sex became a loveless hunt for heterosexuals.
Ha!

You're the one dragging homosexuality into it!

And what about Bohemia?
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:38
belinus
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Ha!

You're the one dragging homosexuality into it!

And what about Bohemia?
sorry salty but that is more than enough, let it go.....
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:41
Saltydog1955
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sorry salty but that is more than enough, let it go.....
I'll ''let it go'' when you quit equating homosexuality with paedophilia.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:42
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BIB - Not sure I understand what you mean above - 'rather than anything sexual in many cases'?

Paedophilia is defined as sexual attraction to chldren, the crime is acting upon that attraction - ie. sexually. If it's just a power/physical-but-non-sexual abuse 'relationship', then we're not talking about paedophilia, we're talking about child abuse, which is not paedophilia.
Well, that's the thing isn't it...it's clear from this thread that term means different things to different people.

Child abuse that involves something of a sexual nature will (most likely) be called a peadophilic offense. However, the sexual nature of the abuse might be the offender doing that simply for a power-trip as sex is something that can be wielded as power in both directions and by an abuser/offender doing such a thing they are wielding substantial power over that person.

Having known people who have worked in that area they did say intimate that peadophiles did that sort of thing out of power as well as or instead of 'simply' a sexual thing.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:47
skp20040
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The are of the same taboo, sexual behaviour

But let us be frank here it is you guys dragging out the side issue of homosexuality, the topic is sex with under-age children, and as i continue to repeat, there are powerful forces pushing to liberalise sex with children. And as uncomfortable as the subject matter is today, it was the same for the side issue pre-Bohemia and the 1960's when sex became a loveless hunt for heterosexuals.
So gay to you is a taboo.

There may be powerful forces pushing to liberalise sex with children, let them come out and try their best, they can talk all they like , it will not happen because the majority of us know it is wrong and that their talk of sex with young children is an unwanted abuse to the child.

But please stop equating being gay with being a paedophile , the sex angle does not wash and cannot be equated if you wish to do so as its a minority then you may as well say say the same for a black person or a disabled person, its not so long ago that those groups were treated differently to others, the fact that they are now treated correctly means we all moved in the right direction, but we did so because it was the morally right and well overdue thing to do , we will not offer the same courtesy to paedophilia as we know its wrong.

Being Gay, Black, Disabled, Red Haired is a minority , being a paedophile is being a criminal, two very different things.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:53
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Well, that's the thing isn't it...it's clear from this thread that term means different things to different people.

Child abuse that involves something of a sexual nature will (most likely) be called a peadophilic offense. However, the sexual nature of the abuse might be the offender doing that simply for a power-trip as sex is something that can be wielded as power in both directions and by an abuser/offender doing such a thing they are wielding substantial power over that person.

Having known people who have worked in that area they did say intimate that peadophiles did that sort of thing out of power as well as or instead of 'simply' a sexual thing.
Yes, I see what you mean and what your question is. I think power is aways part of it, whether the crime is physical or sexual, because an adult, by virtue of being an adult, and bigger and more powerful, automatically has power over a small child.

But I do think there's a clear distinction between someone who hurts and causes physical harm to a child (involving brutality and sexual violence), and someone who sexually abuses a child but doesn't physically hurt them (obviously other than hurting them by a sexual act) if that makes sense...?
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Old 09-01-2013, 00:55
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'Offensive' Jimmy Savile emails slammed by ad watchdog
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:59
alfster
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But I do think there's a clear distinction between someone who hurts and causes physical harm to a child (involving brutality and sexual violence), and someone who sexually abuses a child but doesn't physically hurt them (obviously other than hurting them by a sexual act) if that makes sense...?
It does make absolute sense and is a clear, rational, balanced view of the situation.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:48
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More likely "child abuse" is about power over people rather than paedophilia.
It could be both. I think some people might be attracted to children because they are easy to manipulate because of their lack of experience much as some adults seek out vulnerable adult partners. It might be to do with them not being able to relate to equals and needed an advantage ie powerful position.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:56
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But accepting that it is a part of human sexuality might make society more tolerant and understanding when trying to deal with those with that inclination.
Serial killing, child abuse, rape, domestic violence, theft are also universal human traits found in every society. So is lying, cheating, fraudů What difference does that make to whether they should be tolerated or those that do them be tolerated? Is't the level of acceptable harm ie risk for society vs possibility of reform, the measure we use when deciding on how to deal with such crimes.

The problem of paedophilia is the question is out as to whether and how many can actually stop themselves repeating the behaviour and how we can seperate them from potential victims if there isn't or until there is a treatment.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:25
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It could be both. I think some people might be attracted to children because they are easy to manipulate because of their lack of experience much as some adults seek out vulnerable adult partners. It might be to do with them not being able to relate to equals and needed an advantage ie powerful position.
This is no doubt true in some cases. Thinking back to my childhood, I encountered what would have been called 'inadequates' (sad word), but also good looking young men of 18 or so and dirty old men generally.

This was between the ages of 8 to ten and during the 50s at a time when I was on my own a lot so more vulnerable.

ETA Just to be clear, the young men - one came and sat by me in the cinema and tried to feel me up but I moved and another followed me through a wood, hiding behind a tree watching me at one point and then chased me but I escaped. Very frightening. There are other incidents I could recount but have to go out just now.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:59
belinus
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This is no doubt true in some cases. Thinking back to my childhood, I encountered what would have been called 'inadequates' (sad word), but also good looking young men of 18 or so and dirty old men generally.

This was between the ages of 8 to ten and during the 50s at a time when I was on my own a lot so more vulnerable.

ETA Just to be clear, the young men - one came and sat by me in the cinema and tried to feel me up but I moved and another followed me through a wood, hiding behind a tree watching me at one point and then chased me but I escaped. Very frightening. There are other incidents I could recount but have to go out just now.
I think we all encounter strange people in our childhood, its how we learn about people.
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Old 09-01-2013, 13:46
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I remember another girl at the time who told me that one of her older brothers tied her to the bed and that - she was a child at the time remember - 'some white stuff came out of him'. Apparently her father hit the boy with a belt for it. I wouldn't call that paedophilia although it was sexual abuse. Also she like me was under 10.

What I have described in my former post, to save nit-picking, is predatory sexual advances on a vulnerable under-age child i.e. me. I never felt I could speak of such things to anyone, and there were many such incidents.

What I learned was a warped view of men and sexuality. Things were sickening and horrifying to me.

I have learned to amend my view to a certain extent and have been married twice with children and so on but still feel it has damaged me.
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Old 09-01-2013, 16:32
skp20040
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I remember another girl at the time who told me that one of her older brothers tied her to the bed and that - she was a child at the time remember - 'some white stuff came out of him'. Apparently her father hit the boy with a belt for it. I wouldn't call that paedophilia although it was sexual abuse. Also she like me was under 10.

What I have described in my former post, to save nit-picking, is predatory sexual advances on a vulnerable under-age child i.e. me. I never felt I could speak of such things to anyone, and there were many such incidents.

What I learned was a warped view of men and sexuality. Things were sickening and horrifying to me.

I have learned to amend my view to a certain extent and have been married twice with children and so on but still feel it has damaged me.
I think you will get a few people who are extremely lucky and will be able to get on with their life with no emotional scarring from such events they will though I am sure be few and far between , the majority however will always have emotional scarring and who could expect otherwise .
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Old 09-01-2013, 19:12
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I remember another girl at the time who told me that one of her older brothers tied her to the bed and that - she was a child at the time remember - 'some white stuff came out of him'. Apparently her father hit the boy with a belt for it. I wouldn't call that paedophilia although it was sexual abuse. Also she like me was under 10.

What I have described in my former post, to save nit-picking, is predatory sexual advances on a vulnerable under-age child i.e. me. I never felt I could speak of such things to anyone, and there were many such incidents.

What I learned was a warped view of men and sexuality. Things were sickening and horrifying to me.

I have learned to amend my view to a certain extent and have been married twice with children and so on but still feel it has damaged me.
It's definitely going to give children a warped view of sexuality. If these early experiences are unpleasant and frightening, then of course the child is going to grow up thinking that sexual contact with others is unpleasant and frightening, and certainly not something to be enjoyed.

Another unfortunate effect is that the child may form the view that men are disgusting and cannot be trusted, which is what happened in your case.
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Old 09-01-2013, 19:44
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Its amazing what some people can deal with, one way or another - I almost feel guilty for getting upset at the things that upset me when others have had to go through far, far worse things than I ever have. I wonder if some people are hard wired to cope with things better than others? if that makes any sense(?) I seem to be so uber sensitive, its pretty embarrassing... I guess some people are forced to build a 'thick skin', which is kind of sad. I wish I had a thicker skin but not because something awful happened, of course(!). I admire some people I know who seem much stronger than I am though, for dealing with what they have to deal with.
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Old 09-01-2013, 19:47
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Savile report to be published on Friday
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Old 09-01-2013, 20:24
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Do they really have to keep posting those photos of him in such articles? especially in such large sizes? ugh.
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Old 09-01-2013, 21:45
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It could be both. I think some people might be attracted to children because they are easy to manipulate because of their lack of experience much as some adults seek out vulnerable adult partners. It might be to do with them not being able to relate to equals and needed an advantage ie powerful position.
From experience, I'd say you're spot on.

My dad sexually abused me between the ages of 11 & 13 and (with hindsight) spent his life manipulating people out of his and my mum's life, so it was only him she had to turn to and rely on.

He is an atypical sociopath and has managed to get everyone out of their lives that is capable of showing an opinion.
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Old 09-01-2013, 22:03
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Given the thoughtful and thought provocing turn of this thread I thought I would post this.
Peterhead prison has been trying to deal with serious sex offenders for some time with various success.
http://chris-ukorg.org/broadmoor-hos...erhead-prison/
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