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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 12-01-2013, 14:21
Eurostar
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Yes, I'd imagine JS was seen as a bigger celebrity than an (ex) Coronation Street actor (no offence to anyone working on that show). It sounds like JS had alot more money than he did after a short time too.

This rather baffles me, from Adamson's Wikipedia entry:-



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Adamson

That doesn't make sense to admit to touching someone inappropriately but with no sexual intent so, what? their hand slipped?
In fairness Izzy, that case was always going to be very difficult to prove in a court of law. He may well have groped them but how could anyone prove it? He was already in physical contact with them (quite legally) in a swimming pool.
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Old 12-01-2013, 14:30
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Who exactly was he preying on aged 82??
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Old 12-01-2013, 15:10
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I've had a hard think about how I might feel now if I had ever met Jimmy Savile, and its hard to admit it but I honestly think I might consider saying he 'abused' me. It wouldn't be hard to ring up these NAPAC people and tell them 'my tale'. It would be completely anonymous so none of my friends or family would need to know. Then these solicitors would get me signed up to a conditional fee agreement and pop me along to their tame psychologist who would state I'd been injured. I could then just wait to see what happened and if some money eventually arrived. I could ease my guilt by telling myself that my claim wouldn't make much difference given all the others that were going on. And its not like I'd be hurting JS himself.
I'd be able to tell the story ok because I could draw upon my memory of when I did actually get raped once, a long time ago, by a completely unknown, non-rich person.
I imagine that may have gone through the minds of many women lately, although I'd hope that peoples morals would stop them from doing that - I'd feel awful to know I'd made up something like that, on principle. I'm not a practicing Christian or anything like that but I do feel a God of some sorts exists whom judges me on doing something like that.

I think at the end of the day, if even one claim of rape (or sexual assault) is genuine, thats one too many. What I'm not sure about is if their able to screen claimants to try and check legitimacy, or is that really not possible because of how old the claims are?. There's something very sad if people in their tens or hundreds make a decision to fabricate a story like that, I'd hope it isn't the case but I see your point that it could/would be easy to do so. Perhaps I've been too leniant on believing the 'victims' but in a case like this, isn't it worse to doubt incase they are genuine? if there are clear aspects to someones story or accusation that just don't add up then thats different and certainly worth highlighting but im just a bit cautious to believe a majority of claimants have another motive for speaking up now, other than wanting to be heard, believed and move on after so long...
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Old 12-01-2013, 15:18
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In fairness Izzy, that case was always going to be very difficult to prove in a court of law. He may well have groped them but how could anyone prove it? He was already in physical contact with them (quite legally) in a swimming pool.
Right enough, I was wondering about that...I suppose there are guidelines about that sort of thing for people who work as swimming instructors(?). That is a difficult role to carry out without risking accidentally touching someone if a set of circumstances developed I suppose, if someone started struggling and they had to pull them out of the water or something?.

I used to have swimming lessons at a college campus as a child and I ended up hating this young boy because he took me out to the deep end and ended up letting go of my hand - I still couldn't swim and thought I was a goner lol he'd hoped it'd suddenly click in if I was prompted by letting go of my hand or some such - never again! I still cant swim(!) and I never trusted him again either I guess in that instance I needed more contact not less lol but anyway(!)...
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Old 12-01-2013, 15:34
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Right enough, I was wondering about that...I suppose there are guidelines about that sort of thing for people who work as swimming instructors(?). That is a difficult role to carry out without risking accidentally touching someone if a set of circumstances developed I suppose, if someone started struggling and they had to pull them out of the water or something?.

I used to have swimming lessons at a college campus as a child and I ended up hating this young boy because he took me out to the deep end and ended up letting go of my hand - I still couldn't swim and thought I was a goner lol he'd hoped it'd suddenly click in if I was prompted by letting go of my hand or some such - never again! I still cant swim(!) and I never trusted him again either I guess in that instance I needed more contact not less lol but anyway(!)...
It's very possible Adamson did sexually grope those girls but how would you prove it? It seems too much of a grey area unless another adult was actually to witness the incident.

As for that boy, he sounds like a cruel little brat
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Old 12-01-2013, 15:53
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I was the youngest of 4 children and my parents were both petty crooks in the 1950s in scotland and england My father was from Glasgow and my mother grew up in Dublin but lived in Liverpool. My maternal grandmother resided in Dublin. As a child we were always on the move, moving from one squalid place to another, always with my parents looking over their shoulders. My father was an alcoholic, my mother a thief and a prostitute cum hostess. We were never fed, washed or loved and when the police got too close for comfort or my parents got bored of us we would go on the ferry Liverpool to Dublin and be dumped at my grandmas house or if she refused to take us then taken to any of the industrial schools or catholic childrens homes in the area that would take us. I have vague memories of being hurt and abused physically, emotionally and maybe sexually at home and at the convents. as far as the convents went as soon as I walked up the drive into one of these cavernous georgian buildings that all looked the same and always in the middle of nowhere with no chance of escape and no explanation given as to why i was dumped there , then my mind goes black , I dont have childhood memories, only black holes and empty spaces, I was incarcerated in 3 different childrens homes in Ireland up to the age of 7 that I can remember and maybe more times I dont, I do know I may as well have died in there as I wasnt the same when I came home eventually and moved back to Liverpool. I was a skinny underfed grubby child with no friends who smelt and was hyperactive , covered in louse and with physical tics , more importantly my mind was separated from the child you saw in front of you. I detached into a place I couldnt be hurt and Ive never really come out since. I talk and act normal I grew up and got married and had children, but every day I suffer Ive never been happy and I hate most people and trust nobody. I cant fix myself and tell nobody, at 53 I just think hang on my life is almost done and then I can sleep forever out of the pain of this world, in the meantime I cherish my husband and children but I know im a broken inside. Growing up on merseyside and being forced to church every Sunday and attend a catholic school was bad as I hated all nuns & priests with a passion. My father vanished in the 1960s and my mother died in the 1970s so now that the trauma and old memories surface there is nobody to answer my questions as to why and where. When I look at pictures of the irish schools and convents such as goldenbridge and artane and dalgan park they all look the same to me , a long sweeping drive up to a big building, boys through one door and me and my sister through another door and then the shutters come down. Its incredibly frustrating to have such a poor start in life and no proof of the abuse, no dates, no names no hard facts , abuse can and does happen to children wherever there are adults with power over them and not all of it is proveable yet the children suffer the consequences it casts a long shadow, Im not telling this story fro sympathy just to share how hard it is to speak about and to write down never mind to go forward and tell the police, those people who have gone forward to share their stories I dont believe theyre all chancers and fantastists, too many people and too many stories, I hope they get closure from the whole process.
The thought that people might seek to profit from the JS investigation or any other with false stories in the hopes of compensation would be sickening , people do make false accusations but I would hope they would be in the minority and god knows how the police tell the difference. I know im a walking mess and i have to assume the Police are trained enough to spot the difference between liars and truth tellers without always having concrete evidence. Just sharing my story is enough for me
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:21
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I did not see the interview on Sky News with Guy Marsden, a nephew of JS.

The Guardian today reports that he said JS got away with it because he was so powerful; he could name 10 others; it's happening now; it's never going to change because they are so powerful and big; and such crimes only ever come out when the perpetrators died.

Depressing but hopefully there are other decent powerful people out there who will ensure that this time those who are still alive, and possibly still abusing, will be brought to justice.
This bit worries me a bit


He said he could give 10 other names on air now presumably other sex offenders but the presenter would stop him. She did.

When he says he could , has he given these names to police ?
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:24
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I imagine that may have gone through the minds of many women lately, although I'd hope that peoples morals would stop them from doing that - I'd feel awful to know I'd made up something like that, on principle. I'm not a practicing Christian or anything like that but I do feel a God of some sorts exists whom judges me on doing something like that.

I think at the end of the day, if even one claim of rape (or sexual assault) is genuine, thats one too many. What I'm not sure about is if their able to screen claimants to try and check legitimacy, or is that really not possible because of how old the claims are?. There's something very sad if people in their tens or hundreds make a decision to fabricate a story like that, I'd hope it isn't the case but I see your point that it could/would be easy to do so. Perhaps I've been too leniant on believing the 'victims' but in a case like this, isn't it worse to doubt incase they are genuine? if there are clear aspects to someones story or accusation that just don't add up then thats different and certainly worth highlighting but im just a bit cautious to believe a majority of claimants have another motive for speaking up now, other than wanting to be heard, believed and move on after so long...
Its not wrong to question them. They have to expect it if they wish to claim compensation.
People do not all have the same moral standards.
Claiming compensation, sometimes totally fraudulently, is commonplace. Look at the whiplash industry.
If the allegations are genuine then I'm afraid that the earliest 'victims' should hang their heads in shame for not reporting sooner and preventing harm to others.
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:31
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I imagine that may have gone through the minds of many women lately, although I'd hope that peoples morals would stop them from doing that - I'd feel awful to know I'd made up something like that, on principle. I'm not a practicing Christian or anything like that but I do feel a God of some sorts exists whom judges me on doing something like that.

I think at the end of the day, if even one claim of rape (or sexual assault) is genuine, thats one too many. What I'm not sure about is if their able to screen claimants to try and check legitimacy, or is that really not possible because of how old the claims are?. There's something very sad if people in their tens or hundreds make a decision to fabricate a story like that, I'd hope it isn't the case but I see your point that it could/would be easy to do so. Perhaps I've been too leniant on believing the 'victims' but in a case like this, isn't it worse to doubt incase they are genuine? if there are clear aspects to someones story or accusation that just don't add up then thats different and certainly worth highlighting but im just a bit cautious to believe a majority of claimants have another motive for speaking up now, other than wanting to be heard, believed and move on after so long...
The bit that worries me is the media made it so easy for any dubious person to make up a story, they printed his MO in the stories they ran before the investigation commenced. Now I would assume the majority are true, but with the numbers there has to be a few which are not.

The bit that does concern me is for instance the solicitor on the news stating they are taking statements now and have people all over the world gatehring them, these have not been reported to police as of yet one would assume if they have only now contacted the alw firm. Will these statements be handed to police or will the lawyers just make a group claim from their clients ? I would say for any compensation claim to be masde the victim must have reported the crime to the police not just a no win no fee solicitor, and I am sure any genuine victim would have no problem with that, I am also sure many genuine victims are not interested in the money aspect.

Sadly we live in a World where Savile got away with his crimes but also where some rather nasty people will use that to jump on a bandwagon for some free cash, it cheapens the whole case but they wont care about that.
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:41
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Sadly we live in a World where Savile got away with his crimes but also where some rather nasty people will use that to jump on a bandwagon for some free cash, it cheapens the whole case but they wont care about that.
If thats true then unfortunately the alleged victims are to blame for not getting him prosecuted.
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:45
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If thats true then unfortunately the alleged victims are to blame for not getting him prosecuted.
I will hark back to what may have said, we lived in different times, sexual assualt victims were treated very differently then, also many victims chose not to report attacks by people as they felt ashamed ( it still happens today ) . Whilst in one way I think yes they should have said something I can also see why many didnt. Also a lack of knoweldge about others reporting crimes may have been the reason some didnt go further, if they had known there were others they may have had the strenght to go forward, but the police computer systems did not collate such info then and officers who did know of other complaints did not pass this to the people who did report things

Yes there will be a percentage of people making things up or exagerating but there will be most who are not.
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:50
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I was the youngest of 4 children and my parents were both petty crooks in the 1950s in scotland and england My father was from Glasgow and my mother grew up in Dublin but lived in Liverpool. My maternal grandmother resided in Dublin. As a child we were always on the move, moving from one squalid place to another, always with my parents looking over their shoulders. My father was an alcoholic, my mother a thief and a prostitute cum hostess. We were never fed, washed or loved and when the police got too close for comfort or my parents got bored of us we would go on the ferry Liverpool to Dublin and be dumped at my grandmas house or if she refused to take us then taken to any of the industrial schools or catholic childrens homes in the area that would take us. I have vague memories of being hurt and abused physically, emotionally and maybe sexually at home and at the convents. as far as the convents went as soon as I walked up the drive into one of these cavernous georgian buildings that all looked the same and always in the middle of nowhere with no chance of escape and no explanation given as to why i was dumped there , then my mind goes black , I dont have childhood memories, only black holes and empty spaces, I was incarcerated in 3 different childrens homes in Ireland up to the age of 7 that I can remember and maybe more times I dont, I do know I may as well have died in there as I wasnt the same when I came home eventually and moved back to Liverpool. I was a skinny underfed grubby child with no friends who smelt and was hyperactive , covered in louse and with physical tics , more importantly my mind was separated from the child you saw in front of you. I detached into a place I couldnt be hurt and Ive never really come out since. I talk and act normal I grew up and got married and had children, but every day I suffer Ive never been happy and I hate most people and trust nobody. I cant fix myself and tell nobody, at 53 I just think hang on my life is almost done and then I can sleep forever out of the pain of this world, in the meantime I cherish my husband and children but I know im a broken inside. Growing up on merseyside and being forced to church every Sunday and attend a catholic school was bad as I hated all nuns & priests with a passion. My father vanished in the 1960s and my mother died in the 1970s so now that the trauma and old memories surface there is nobody to answer my questions as to why and where. When I look at pictures of the irish schools and convents such as goldenbridge and artane and dalgan park they all look the same to me , a long sweeping drive up to a big building, boys through one door and me and my sister through another door and then the shutters come down. Its incredibly frustrating to have such a poor start in life and no proof of the abuse, no dates, no names no hard facts , abuse can and does happen to children wherever there are adults with power over them and not all of it is proveable yet the children suffer the consequences it casts a long shadow, Im not telling this story fro sympathy just to share how hard it is to speak about and to write down never mind to go forward and tell the police, those people who have gone forward to share their stories I dont believe theyre all chancers and fantastists, too many people and too many stories, I hope they get closure from the whole process.
The thought that people might seek to profit from the JS investigation or any other with false stories in the hopes of compensation would be sickening , people do make false accusations but I would hope they would be in the minority and god knows how the police tell the difference. I know im a walking mess and i have to assume the Police are trained enough to spot the difference between liars and truth tellers without always having concrete evidence. Just sharing my story is enough for me
This thread gets 1000-2000 views/day, so you are sharing with a lot of caring people (and a few prats of course!)
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Old 12-01-2013, 16:59
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This thread gets 1000-2000 views/day, so you are sharing with a lot of caring people (and a few prats of course!)
Well said BB. Thank you for telling your story, puffenstuff. I hope it helped a little to write that.

ETA Very well written too.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:00
Bus Stop2012
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I will hark back to what may have said, we lived in different times, sexual assualt victims were treated very differently then, also many victims chose not to report attacks by people as they felt ashamed ( it still happens today ) . Whilst in one way I think yes they should have said something I can also see why many didnt. Also a lack of knoweldge about others reporting crimes may have been the reason some didnt go further, if they had known there were others they may have had the strenght to go forward, but the police computer systems did not collate such info then and officers who did know of other complaints did not pass this to the people who did report things

Yes there will be a percentage of people making things up or exagerating but there will be most who are not.
I only quoted the bit of your post with the line 'he got away with it'. Its an oft used line that irks me because its implied (not necessarily by you personally) that he actively escaped justice. When in fact the only people in whose gift it was to prevent his 'getting away with it' are the alleged victims.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:03
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Right enough, I was wondering about that...I suppose there are guidelines about that sort of thing for people who work as swimming instructors(?). That is a difficult role to carry out without risking accidentally touching someone if a set of circumstances developed I suppose, if someone started struggling and they had to pull them out of the water or something?.

I used to have swimming lessons at a college campus as a child and I ended up hating this young boy because he took me out to the deep end and ended up letting go of my hand - I still couldn't swim and thought I was a goner lol he'd hoped it'd suddenly click in if I was prompted by letting go of my hand or some such - never again! I still cant swim(!) and I never trusted him again either I guess in that instance I needed more contact not less lol but anyway(!)...
There are (or at least there were) quite strict background checks on people working as swimming instructors because they do have to work in very close proximity with children both in the pool and often in supervising changing rooms.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:05
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IMO The Independent provided the best coverage of yesterday's publication of the Met/NSPCC and CPS reports
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-8447146.html
It's been updated several times today.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:07
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If thats true then unfortunately the alleged victims are to blame for not getting him prosecuted.
Then you must know absolutely nothing about the complexities of abuse and the myriad of reasons as to why victims do not or cannot speak out. To even consider that the alleged victims are to blame is quite shocking.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:10
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An Irish support group for sexual abuse victims says it's very likely that Jimmy Savile offended here, and is urging anyone affected to come forward.
http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.301.341/4855/0/
Short audio clip of Executive Director of the One in Four support group, Maeve Lewis
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:11
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If thats true then unfortunately the alleged victims are to blame for not getting him prosecuted.
It is not fair to blame the alleged victims.

Child abuse is very difficult to prove even when the victim/s have been brave enough to report it to an authority.

When the perpetrator is famous, you can almost forget it unless there is strong evidence, and the report is made to a decent uninvolved person who has the power to act upon it.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:18
Bus Stop2012
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It is not fair to blame the alleged victims.

Child abuse is very difficult to prove even when the victim/s have been brave enough to report it to an authority.

When the perpetrator is famous, you can almost forget it unless there is strong evidence, and the report is made to a decent uninvolved person who has the power to act upon it.
I referred to the line 'he got away with it'. It makes it sound as though he actively avoided prosecution when in truth the only reason he never even faced justice was down to lack of complaints by alleged victims.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:25
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An Irish support group for sexual abuse victims says it's very likely that Jimmy Savile offended here, and is urging anyone affected to come forward.
http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.301.341/4855/0/
Short audio clip of Executive Director of the One in Four support group, Maeve Lewis
Though I've heard reports that Savile was chaperoned and chauffeured everywhere he went in Ireland, meaning it would have been difficult for him to abuse on his Irish visits (but you certainly couldn't rule it out for one moment).
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:26
Bus Stop2012
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Then you must know absolutely nothing about the complexities of abuse and the myriad of reasons as to why victims do not or cannot speak out. To even consider that the alleged victims are to blame is quite shocking.
Another one taking my words out of context. Please see post above.
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:36
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Its not wrong to question them. They have to expect it if they wish to claim compensation.
People do not all have the same moral standards.
Claiming compensation, sometimes totally fraudulently, is commonplace. Look at the whiplash industry.
If the allegations are genuine then I'm afraid that the earliest 'victims' should hang their heads in shame for not reporting sooner and preventing harm to others.
Maybe they should expect it but its still a shame, to be subjected to doubt and scrutiny. I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of a victim. If I knew myself what had happened but nobody else believed me because I couldn't physically prove it (and certainly in some cases, it must be extremely difficult to provide physical proof of such crimes taking part), that would be extremely frustrating, particularly if I ended up with a perceived bad reputation because of it, with people labelling you a fantasist or something similar.

I don't think its fair to compare car insurance claims of whiplash to child sex abuse/assault claims - yes claiming anything fraudulently is wrong and a crime but one is more severe than the other and I'd hope that people would feel more hesitant to falsely claim abuse took part compared to whiplash but from what I've heard regarding whiplash, doctors can't be sure either way most of the time, whether someone has it or not, its notoriously difficult to get a precise diagnosis as it doesn't show up on alot of tests etc.? so it could be that many claims are genuine, its just very hard for them to tell, from what I've heard.

Most of the victims were young at the time the abuse happened - to blame young teenagers for finding it hard to talk out about something which I think was rather more taboo back then than it is now, is a bit much. Plus, for the particularly young victims, say pre-teens, they may not have realised the significance of what happened at first. For some other younger kids/teens, they might be excited about going back to school and telling their friends that they met a celebrity, try to ignore that strange moment that happened that they don't really understand and think if they mentioned it, they'd be laughed at by the other kids or otherwise not believed. If they don't feel they can tell their friends then the thought of going to the authorities and telling something that could be quite humiliating, in detail, to adults who are likely strangers to them and with the story maybe ending up in the papers about it for everyone nearby to read? its alot to expect young people to do, I think. I think nowadays its (hopefully) a bit easier but thats probably how I'd picture it.

I think it depends on how the assault happened, what was said etc. as well because if he may have claimed he was attracted to them or complimented them then that can be confusing and they might think its their fault or blame themselves and the thought of going to the police and admitting that, like they might worry that they'll somehow get some of the blame (which doesn't really make sense but I have mixed emotions about things from my past).
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:45
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The bit that worries me is the media made it so easy for any dubious person to make up a story, they printed his MO in the stories they ran before the investigation commenced. Now I would assume the majority are true, but with the numbers there has to be a few which are not.

The bit that does concern me is for instance the solicitor on the news stating they are taking statements now and have people all over the world gatehring them, these have not been reported to police as of yet one would assume if they have only now contacted the alw firm. Will these statements be handed to police or will the lawyers just make a group claim from their clients ? I would say for any compensation claim to be masde the victim must have reported the crime to the police not just a no win no fee solicitor, and I am sure any genuine victim would have no problem with that, I am also sure many genuine victims are not interested in the money aspect.

Sadly we live in a World where Savile got away with his crimes but also where some rather nasty people will use that to jump on a bandwagon for some free cash, it cheapens the whole case but they wont care about that.
I agree, the press printed too much. I honestly feel sorry for the genuine victims that there's this extra doubt because of the numbers involved and such lawyers chasing after monetary compensation really don't help the matter - I agree, anyone persuing a claim should have their story lodged with the police.

I saw a piece on the BBC News channel this morning with Liz Dux, she seems alright. She was saying that their going to wait for the outcome of all the remaining investigations before putting in the claim for the people she represents, for financial compensations - unless the investigations go on for too long (years?) but she said that they really ought to wait for the outcomes to be published first, its foolhardy to just go after money from the get-go, without having the full picture, I think of the extent of involvement or lack of responsibility by the different organisations etc.(?). I think she said its not really about the money but about the victims being recognised, acknowledged and believed, thats what they want more than anything else - obviously victims had hoped for prosecution but now thats physically impossible, their only available course of action as far as getting something to symbolise the publics apology I suppose(?) is to put a claim in to his estate - other than that, what can they offer the victims? maybe some would argue they shouldn't be offered anything but after some of these people may have suffered for decades in silence with trust issues and low self esteem, depression, doubting themselves, wondering if their a fantasist or thinking no-one would believe them if they spoke up etc. - is that really fair?
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Old 12-01-2013, 17:47
inquirer64
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I referred to the line 'he got away with it'. It makes it sound as though he actively avoided prosecution when in truth the only reason he never even faced justice was down to lack of complaints by alleged victims.
Do we know the truth?

Do we know how many times he 'sorted' complaints/allegations with threats etc?

Do we even know how many complaints were made at the time of the abuse? Some may not have even been recorded.
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