[RichmondBlue]

Originally Posted by TrebleKing

I prefer to direct my sympathy towards the two innocent old women he butchered. Maybe that's just me though..

I agree. Throughout the whole programme I can't remember hearing one word of remorse or pity for their victims.
They were sorry, but it was more about regretting their actions because they had come to realise their own lives had been wasted.
They were still able to read books, watch tv, listen to music, laugh and joke with other inmates, and receive visitors. Their victims cease to exist, and their loved ones would probably give anything for the chance to see them alive again, if only for a day.
No, I had no sympathy whatsoever..unless of course, any of them were innocent.

[Dan-Bevis]

Originally Posted by sunhillpc1

With regard to the death row inmate who murdered his wife and children, Trevor didn't ask him why he did it. Usually, people who kill their spouses and their children also kill themselves.

Yeah, he was the only one who unnerved me [the rest seemed human and remorseful - albeit, some were aware that prison was the best place for them]. Not a mention of his family he murdered, and Trevor didn't ask him why he did it.

I was like 'Really...?' I mean, perhaps his whole 'cleaning' kick is merely to avoid thinking about it at all, but still. Wtf.

[Lkjh]

Originally Posted by CarrieNYC

Exactly what I was just thinking!

Lets have the same sentences and prison conditions in the UK!

[too_much_coffee]

Originally Posted by Evil Genius

Its almost ironic, that you see prisoners who do this, use their time to improve themselves. You know they would never have had the opportunity or time to do so on the outside that they are afforded inside.

There are some in the UK that benefit from the education on offer here and turn their lives around when given the opportunity.

Some years ago I employed a woman who had completed a life sentence and was released on license under a new identity. She had gone to prison barely able to read and write and had spent her time in there wisely. She was a fantastic worker and incredibly loyal because I had given her a chance when no one else would.

I'm not for a minute excusing what she did (she had killed someone) for which she'd served a long sentence. At times her "prison attitude" could present challenges but, to me, she demonstrated that with the right support and people that believe in them (she had a wonderfully supportive parole officer) it's much better to enable people to move on and make something of their lives than just rot away in jail.

[Dandem]

I was watching this and wondering to myself, "How many of these people are genuine psychopaths...and how many just had a complete moment of madness?" I thought of that question when that bloke was on who had killed a police officer during a chase.

The bloke who was thrown in at 15 years of age was a fascinating man though. So articulate, calm and intelligent. I reckon he blames his own youthful naivety for where he is today...although of course, that isn't an excuse for him to not be there.

[too_much_coffee]

Originally Posted by Dandem

I was watching this and wondering to myself, "How many of these people are genuine psychopaths...and how many just had a complete moment of madness?" I thought of that question when that bloke was on who had killed a police officer during a chase.

The bloke who was thrown in at 15 years of age was a fascinating man though. So articulate, calm and intelligent. I reckon he blames his own youthful naivety for where he is today...although of course, that isn't an excuse for him to not be there.

I felt so sad watching him as I felt he had potential to do so much good. Someone intelligent and articulate like that should be playing a role in preventing kids from going down the route that he's travelled.

[LishaG]

Originally Posted by TrebleKing

I prefer to direct my sympathy towards the two innocent old women he butchered. Maybe that's just me though..

Me too.
I do agree, though, that locking someone up for their whole lives for something they did at 13 is extreme. I do think kids who commit crimes like his should most definitely be sent to prison and not have it easy, but for life? Not so sure.

[valkay]

I didn't feel sympathy for them but it does seem cruel keeping them on death row for many years before executing them. It should be done immediately after an appeal has failed.

[milliejo]

Originally Posted by heiker

Can't help thinking that for the same crime but committed in the UK as opposed to the USA most of these guys would be out of prison in years totalling barely two figures and certainly never full life sentences.

A 13 year old who had commited murder in the UK would have gone to a specialist unit, would have been fully educated, had regular sessions with a psychologist and treated like a human.
And if on good behaviour would be given the chance to be realised and have a life. The USA is much less humane. They have locked up teenagers who will die in prison.

[milliejo]

Originally Posted by ganderpoke66

Of course they come across as nice, quiet, intelligent guys, thay are psychos, everyone goes, aw shame, if only he'd been given a chance in life he wouldn't have spent two days torturing and killing a family for no explicable reason.

These programmes do more harm than good, we have no idea the scale of violent crime in the USA, another swipe at US Justice by some Liberal Leftie bed wetting Brit .

Which shows that the death penalty is not a deterant against murder, it is there for vengance nothing more. There are psychos out there, who commit terrible murders. It the UK they go to jail and stay there. I am fine with that, that is civilised. And no mention of those that have gone to their deaths for crimes they did not commit in this programme.

[Rowieboy]

Originally Posted by Wayne_Daniels

Trevors questions are poor

It's the emperor's new clothes with old Trev. He really hasn't got a clue allegedly...Very,very lucky!

[misha06]

I watched it, and enjoyed it. But then again I like quite all these sort of 'inside prison' shows.

I think TM's quiet, almost a bit 'worried' style worked well. His asking if he could enter a prisoners cell, like it was their home was rather sweet.

The only thing that left me a bit frustrated, was that we knew what the convicts were in for (ie murder) but it was not expanded upon.

The barber guy, for example came across a sweet old man, inside for nearly 40 years and seemed well balanced.

Ditto the guy who had been in for 25 years from age 15, all we knew was two old dears were killed, not the manner. We see his books, and that he has a smattering of philosophy and religion, he is articulate and seeming contrite about his actions, and on the face it seems that 170 years is a bit harsh.

But we didn't get to know the details of their crimes; was it particularly nasty or sexual. Which maybe would have allowed us the viewer to consider their sentence and make our own judgement.

This contrasted with the interview with the guy that killed his family and was a bit OCD, and the younger of the two interviewed in the basketball court.

They were both clearly bat shit mental.

I will watch next week, if only for the clips of the prison cat who is the spit of The Beast (my cat) I have already told him if he doesn't stop killing small creatures, I know where he is headed

[TrebleKing]

Originally Posted by milliejo

A 13 year old who had commited murder in the UK would have gone to a specialist unit, would have been fully educated, had regular sessions with a psychologist and treated like a human.
And if on good behaviour would be given the chance to be realised and have a life. The USA is much less humane. They have locked up teenagers who will die in prison.

And so they should. I don't want anyone who's butchered two innocent old women out on the street. Ever.

[eveningstar]

Originally Posted by sunhillpc1

With regard to the death row inmate who murdered his wife and children, Trevor didn't ask him why he did it. Usually, people who kill their spouses and their children also kill themselves.

Apparenttly it was on the day she had divorce papers delivered to him, and he did try to kill himself.

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/...ow/mcmanus.htm

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by Joel's dad

170 seems a tad harsh for a 13 y o jmo

That is America, it is barbaric. Of course he should be punished but he was a child when he committed the crimes.

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by misha06

I watched it, and enjoyed it. But then again I like quite all these sort of 'inside prison' shows.

I think TM's quiet, almost a bit 'worried' style worked well. His asking if he could enter a prisoners cell, like it was their home was rather sweet.

The only thing that left me a bit frustrated, was that we knew what the convicts were in for (ie murder) but it was not expanded upon.

The barber guy, for example came across a sweet old man, inside for nearly 40 years and seemed well balanced.

Ditto the guy who had been in for 25 years from age 15, all we knew was two old dears were killed, not the manner. We see his books, and that he has a smattering of philosophy and religion, he is articulate and seeming contrite about his actions, and on the face it seems that 170 years is a bit harsh.

But we didn't get to know the details of their crimes; was it particularly nasty or sexual. Which maybe would have allowed us the viewer to consider their sentence and make our own judgement.

This contrasted with the interview with the guy that killed his family and was a bit OCD, and the younger of the two interviewed in the basketball court.

They were both clearly bat shit mental.

I will watch next week, if only for the clips of the prison cat who is the spit of The Beast (my cat) I have already told him if he doesn't stop killing small creatures, I know where he is headed

I found this site about the Death Row prisoners.

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/rownew.htm

[sunhillpc1]

Originally Posted by eveningstar

Apparenttly it was on the day she had divorce papers delivered to him, and he did try to kill himself.

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/...ow/mcmanus.htm

Thanks for that!

[TrebleKing]

Originally Posted by M@nterik

That is America, it is barbaric. Of course he should be punished but he was a child when he committed the crimes.

At least he's grown older unlike his victims. He's paying for his crime, and at least it looks like he acknowledges that.

[Shappy]

Does anyone have anymore info on the circumstances of Sanford's murders of the two women? A life sentence at 15 knowing you'll spend the rest of your life in jail. It's almost not worth living.

[milliejo]

Originally Posted by TrebleKing

And so they should. I don't want anyone who's butchered two innocent old women out on the street. Ever.

What happens to make a 10 year old or a 13 year old kill? Did someone fail them? Children that age don't naturally kill unless something inside them has gone deeply wrong...

I often wonder do the families of the victims ever feeling that executing someone is helpful? Does it bring anyone back?
Does it really bring "closure"? And what if it is someone who is innocent? They haven't got justice in that case and another innocent person is dead and lost to his own family.
In Florida they executed someone who was believed to be a cop-killer in the electric chair, they made as a painful as possible, yet afterwards it was confirmed he was completely innocent, his wife/girlfriend also in jail was freed. Who gained anything out of that but the lawyers and politicians that got richer and more powerful.
That is another reason for being against the death penalty, in the US it is used as a political weapon and the truth doesn't matter, just as long as some governer is Texas (George W Bush) looks good because he has overseen so many executions and that somehow makes him electable.

[Jenkins123]

Im blown away by some of you in this thread who seem to be rather charmed by these scum bags... A guy has books on Eugenics and you seem rather impressed by it, even thoughHitler would doubtless have read the same books. I wouldnt pi$$ on these things if they were on fire. They commited the most unspeakable crimes, and if we had any empathy at all for the victims family, we would celebrate the fact these murderer's are on death row. If it were your child murdered, dont tell me you would you oppose the death penalty if was an option.

[Steve35]

Originally Posted by Jenkins123

Im blown away by some of you in this thread who seem to be rather charmed by these scum bags... A guy has books on Eugenics and you seem rather impressed by it, even thoughHitler would doubtless have read the same books. I wouldnt pi$$ on these things if they were on fire. They commited the most unspeakable crimes, and if we had any empathy at all for the victims family, we would celebrate the fact these murderer's are on death row. If it were your child murdered, dont tell me you would you oppose the death penalty if was an option.

I'm definitely not impressed by any of them! They are criminals of the highest sort, and yes if it was my child or any other member of my family, then i would want the death sentence.

[Steve35]

Originally Posted by Jenkins123

Im blown away by some of you in this thread who seem to be rather charmed by these scum bags... A guy has books on Eugenics and you seem rather impressed by it, even thoughHitler would doubtless have read the same books. I wouldnt pi$$ on these things if they were on fire. They commited the most unspeakable crimes, and if we had any empathy at all for the victims family, we would celebrate the fact these murderer's are on death row. If it were your child murdered, dont tell me you would you oppose the death penalty if was an option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics

[sleepa]

Originally Posted by Jenkins123

Im blown away by some of you in this thread who seem to be rather charmed by these scum bags... A guy has books on Eugenics and you seem rather impressed by it, even thoughHitler would doubtless have read the same books. I wouldnt pi$$ on these things if they were on fire. They commited the most unspeakable crimes, and if we had any empathy at all for the victims family, we would celebrate the fact these murderer's are on death row. If it were your child murdered, dont tell me you would you oppose the death penalty if was an option.

Not to disagree with your observation about charm, but I imagine his interest in eugenics was as a perceived victim.

[ganderpoke66]

Originally Posted by M@nterik

That is America, it is barbaric. Of course he should be punished but he was a child when he committed the crimes.

God almighty, how does that possibly excuse his crimes or demand a lower sentence than an adult ?

Even a thick 13 year old knows it's wrong to kill people.