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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 21-01-2013, 14:01
jamtamara
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There is a saying that if you tell a big enough lie people will believe you. This has worked in some cases.

In Savile's case, which was somewhat different, he said so many 'preposterous' things that people did not take him altogether seriously. "Hiding in plain sight" has now become a cliche regarding him - but there is a real truth there.
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:16
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There is a saying that if you tell a big enough lie people will believe you. This has worked in some cases.

In Savile's case, which was somewhat different, he said so many 'preposterous' things that people did not take him altogether seriously. "Hiding in plain sight" has now become a cliche regarding him - but there is a real truth there.
You're right. Savile used his "Loveable eccentric" image
to disguise the fact he was quite a loathsome
person. In retrospect, there were so many people
thinking there was something highly questionable about Savile's behaviour with children- Lynn Barber
actually challenged Savile about the paedophilia
rumours as early as 1990 -

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-8193169.html

-that it's hard to believe nobody managed to add enough evidence to get Savile
charged, or at least let the cat out of the bag a la
Matthew Wright.

If even one "Savile questioned over child abuse allegations" story had appeared during the shell-suited creep's lifetime, then even if Savile had been acquitted, everyone would have been on their guard around him....
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:25
jamtamara
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Given what has come out in the past year, are you really so quick to disbelieve the unbelievable? I know I'm not and I know you'll call me an idiot for it but quite frankly I don't care.
Good for you.

In his interviews he spoke of being a 'very boring guy'. He went on to illlustrate the ways in which he was boring: according to him this included '...no under- age sex..'

Why mention that at all? It's not what the 'average man' would think of as an example, or indeed if he did, would he mention it?

It's all there, his many utterances, his autobiography and so on are 'in plain sight'.

ETA He contradicts himself. One minute boasting of exploits with naked teenagers and then saying 'There is no past'. What's the autobiography all about then?

I'd have loved to see what a good prosecution could have done with all that. However, I doubt he would have been convicted.
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Old 21-01-2013, 14:47
jamtamara
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You're right. Savile used his "Loveable eccentric" image
to disguise the fact he was quite a loathsome
person. In retrospect, there were so many people
thinking there was something highly questionable about Savile's behaviour with children- Lynn Barber
actually challenged Savile about the paedophilia
rumours as early as 1990 -

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-8193169.html

-that it's hard to believe nobody managed to add enough evidence to get Savile
charged, or at least let the cat out of the bag a la
Matthew Wright.

If even one "Savile questioned over child abuse allegations" story had appeared during the shell-suited creep's lifetime, then even if Savile had been acquitted, everyone would have been on their guard around him....
I agree, but it was not easy at the time. I think some good has come out of it which might not have been the case had it gone to trial.

Someone (Lord Queensberry) once said "I don't say that you are it, but you act it." He seemed to become more wary with age and perhaps realised he had bragged and blagged a step too far in earlier years. It was as if he couldn't help himself though - even in the Louis Theroux interview he was still acting like The Godfather.
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Old 21-01-2013, 17:03
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The satanic sex ritual stuff we see in films is influenced by the life/works of Aleister Crowley. He really did do stuff like that (at least for some of his life).

As for the mix of people on that list: It opens the possibility of blackmail and people doing 'favours' for one another.

That list is the only one I've seen. Has it been verified as being the real list?
Aleister Crowley seems to me more like an individualistic person. He may have been involved in similar rituals in his "sex magick" thing, but I doubt it involved the rape of children.

I'm not sure the list is legit, I know it is spread around the internet. Only time will tell.



I haven't seen that movie, so I wouldn't have been able to make the link before. I think quite alot if not most depictions of such things (underground cult rituals, especially if involving non-members of the cult, to intimidate them) on TV and on stage are a bit like that - people disguised in large numbers with uniforms of some sort, wearing robes or cloaks or whatever to indicate their part of some sort of clique/group/cult or whatever...like superheros in numbers I suppose, only their evil instead of good lol. It seems bit 'Phantom of the Opera-esque', would look good on stage but its a bit hard to believe such things happen just like that 'in real life', unless it really is underground perhaps.
Maybe. But is the exact same scenary. Did you read the Express article? The "leader" (Savile) on a chair with two guys in blue robes beside him. I'm almost positive she took the "ritual" from the scene.
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Old 21-01-2013, 17:05
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Given what has come out in the past year, are you really so quick to disbelieve the unbelievable? I know I'm not and I know you'll call me an idiot for it but quite frankly I don't care.
The problem is not believing Savile was not involved in such rituals. It is because the story doesn't seem to hold upon scrutiny.
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Old 21-01-2013, 17:07
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Given what has come out in the past year, are you really so quick to disbelieve the unbelievable? I know I'm not and I know you'll call me an idiot for it but quite frankly I don't care.
The Express story is full of holes - most obviously that it's not about abuse, it's focus is 'Satanism' of the hysterical fundamentalist or Hollywood variety (see the Satanic abuse stories of the 80S/90s ).
Only Savile is alleged to have abused her, and that would require all the other participants to have been facilitators, stooges in an enormous ruse to enable him - when he's not shown any need to disguise his predeliction both earlier and later. That, or they are supposed to be engaged in a 'genuine' Satanic event, in spite of the comical outbursts and Savile still holding a Cigar while wearing a mask. An event modelled on completely fictitious ideas of what one would look like.
The claimant concludes that her parents (who they say consented) were 'well known Satanists' - once again directing the focus of the piece not towards sexual abuse but alleged 'un-christian' activities. Savile appears in the story only to make it more lurid - and it's highly doubtful they'd have run the piece if he hadn't featured.
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Old 21-01-2013, 17:22
Linda_Danvers
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I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but Private Eye issue 1326 related
a story by Victor Lewis-Smith of the Evening Standard. Lewis-Smith remembered meeting Jimmy Savile in a chip shop in Scarborough. Savile was with an armed "minder" and inviting young girls "upstairs". A conversation followed in which Savile introduced the minder
with 'This is my partner. He carries the gun', whereupon the minder opened his jacket to reveal a handgun. Obviously they were threatening VLS so he wouldn't talk about what he had seen.

No, this wasn't posted before. Didn't "Private Eye" also ignored Savile's crimes whilst he was alive? Now they come with stories? They're also too late.

But I don't doubt Savile may have threatened many journalists.
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Old 21-01-2013, 17:37
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You're right. Savile used his "Loveable eccentric" image
to disguise the fact he was quite a loathsome
person. In retrospect, there were so many people
thinking there was something highly questionable about Savile's behaviour with children- Lynn Barber
actually challenged Savile about the paedophilia
rumours as early as 1990 -

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-8193169.html

-that it's hard to believe nobody managed to add enough evidence to get Savile
charged, or at least let the cat out of the bag a la
Matthew Wright.

If even one "Savile questioned over child abuse allegations" story had appeared during the shell-suited creep's lifetime, then even if Savile had been acquitted, everyone would have been on their guard around him....
It's quite bizarre that the tabloids didn't go after him in the early 90s....this is when many sex abuse scandals were starting to break for the first time.
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Old 21-01-2013, 17:40
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Good for you.

In his interviews he spoke of being a 'very boring guy'. He went on to illlustrate the ways in which he was boring: according to him this included '...no under- age sex..'

Why mention that at all? It's not what the 'average man' would think of as an example, or indeed if he did, would he mention it?

It's all there, his many utterances, his autobiography and so on are 'in plain sight'.

ETA He contradicts himself. One minute boasting of exploits with naked teenagers and then saying 'There is no past'. What's the autobiography all about then?

I'd have loved to see what a good prosecution could have done with all that. However, I doubt he would have been convicted.
He also (quite incredibly) dropped allegations about necrophilia into another interview where the subject wasn't even being discussed.
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Old 21-01-2013, 19:47
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He also (quite incredibly) dropped allegations about necrophilia into another interview where the subject wasn't even being discussed.
I have this personal theory the necrophilia rumours were cultivated by Savile himself to make the paedophilia rumours more unbelievable. "Ah, I heard Savile likes dead people!" "I heard he is a kiddie fiddler" "There are all sorts of rumours about famous people". However, they remain rumours and in the light of recent scandal, not one person appeared saying he/she saw Savile doing weird things with bodies.

Savile said those things about his dead mother knowing very well how it would sound like, what people would think. The rumours probably came from that and from the fact he worked as a porter. But who works in mortuaries says they are not "quiet" places as people think. There is always someone coming or going.

Yes, it was weird he brought up the necrophilia rumours. It was like he was reminding us of it. He also did that in a "Q" interview. But he never brought up the rumours about being a paedophile. It was always journalists who asked him about it.
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Old 21-01-2013, 19:47
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No, this wasn't posted before. Didn't "Private Eye" also ignored Savile's crimes whilst he was alive? Now they come with stories? They're also too late.

But I don't doubt Savile may have threatened many journalists.
I don't think it was that PE ignored Saville's crimes- I suspect
they knew the rumours about Savile, but never had any
hard evidence to back them up.

Victor Lewis-Smith also gave a negative review of "Jim'll Fix
It" in his book "Inside the Magic Rectangle". There was a line
in the review that may have been a coded ref to the paedo
rumours. Lewis-Smith wrote that Savile had a little
girl on the show who wanted to be a fairy.
Lewis-Smith then wrote- "So Jimmy let her grab
his magic wand...."
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Old 21-01-2013, 20:01
Linda_Danvers
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I don't think it was that PE ignored Saville's crimes- I suspect
they knew the rumours about Savile, but never had any
hard evidence to back them up.

Victor Lewis-Smith also gave a negative review of "Jim'll Fix
It" in his book "Inside the Magic Rectangle". There was a line
in the review that may have been a coded ref to the paedo
rumours. Lewis-Smith wrote that Savile had a little
girl on the show who wanted to be a fairy.
Lewis-Smith then wrote- "So Jimmy let her grab
his magic wand...."
They probably knew about it but didn't have the will to make a proper investigation. Anyway, it wasn't only them. I don't even blame Lewis-Smith for not doing anything. After that veiled threat, I probably would be quiet too. Yep, he was making a reference to the rumour.
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Old 21-01-2013, 20:51
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I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but Private Eye issue 1326 related
a story by Victor Lewis-Smith of the Evening Standard. Lewis-Smith remembered meeting Jimmy Savile in a chip shop in Scarborough. Savile was with an armed "minder" and inviting young girls "upstairs". A conversation followed in which Savile introduced the minder
with 'This is my partner. He carries the gun', whereupon the minder opened his jacket to reveal a handgun. Obviously they were threatening VLS so he wouldn't talk about what he had seen.
Thats rather chilling - the fact that he referred to himself as 'The Godfather' and made it clear he had plenty of contacts and could find basically anyones number, is rather telling. He was seen as a gangster type figure in the dancehall days in the 50s too - its staggering that such things could have been going on while he was on TV and thought of as some supposed national icon.

There's a photo of him wearing the same thumb ring as the character on the front cover of A Clockwork Orange, I saw mention of that elsewhere last week but I can't find it now, its like a large black and white eye.

----

I found some photos of him in robes and a mask, if anyones curious, see:-

http://i49.tinypic.com/k06l53.jpg (that one might have already been posted, I'd have to double check)
http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-new...allery_620.jpg
http://www.hebdenbridgetimes.co.uk/w...3191897410.jpg
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Old 21-01-2013, 21:01
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Aleister Crowley seems to me more like an individualistic person. He may have been involved in similar rituals in his "sex magick" thing, but I doubt it involved the rape of children.

I'm not sure the list is legit, I know it is spread around the internet. Only time will tell.





Maybe. But is the exact same scenary. Did you read the Express article? The "leader" (Savile) on a chair with two guys in blue robes beside him. I'm almost positive she took the "ritual" from the scene.
I'm not saying her story is true - like I said before, its very 'fantastical', it doesn't seem too credible, just there are probably many such movies around that it could have been partly based on. I imagine someone like JS would have loved the idea of being seen as some sort of king type figure with stooges under his control to help him out though (of course that doesn't mean its true though! its all rather bizarre).
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Old 21-01-2013, 21:10
IzzyS
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There is a saying that if you tell a big enough lie people will believe you. This has worked in some cases.

In Savile's case, which was somewhat different, he said so many 'preposterous' things that people did not take him altogether seriously. "Hiding in plain sight" has now become a cliche regarding him - but there is a real truth there.
The story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf comes to mind somehow (of which there's an interesting Wikipedia entry for:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf its telling has made some kids more likely to lie?!)
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Old 21-01-2013, 21:34
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The story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf comes to mind somehow (of which there's an interesting Wikipedia entry for:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf its telling has made some kids more likely to lie?!)
Well, they say truth is stranger than fiction!

I was thinking earlier of cases such as in the film depiction of a 'brilliant young master of deception' played by Leonardo DiCaprio in "Catch me if You Can" - true story and you've probably heard of others like it. Also a woman who joined army by dressing as a man and was only 'found out' on her death. There is someone who lives around here who claims he owns this that and the other (land etc.) and is believed. Bit of a pirate.

Bit off topic but interesting I hope.
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Old 21-01-2013, 21:50
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Some psychologists say children who are sexually abused sometimes become
abusers themselves when they grow up. I wonder was Savile sexually abused as a child ?


This wouldn't excuse any of the abuse he did, of course- instead it would should how child sexual abuse can be horribly self-perpetuating.
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Old 21-01-2013, 21:53
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Well, they say truth is stranger than fiction!

I was thinking earlier of cases such as in the film depiction of a 'brilliant young master of deception' played by Leonardo DiCaprio in "Catch me if You Can" - true story and you've probably heard of others like it. Also a woman who joined army by dressing as a man and was only 'found out' on her death. There is someone who lives around here who claims he owns this that and the other (land etc.) and is believed. Bit of a pirate.

Bit off topic but interesting I hope.
True - they also say 'there's nowt so queer as folk' .

I've seen that movie - its a bit long winded but the ending was interesting, what happened when they finally caught up with him.

That reminded me there was a story on one episode of Heir Hunters where it turned out a lady was 40 years older than the age on their presumed birth certificate - neighbours thought she looked a bit old for someone who apparently suddenly died in their mid 40s but she was actually over 80 - they had no idea as she'd originally been an actress and had cosmetic work done and had gone to a lot of effort to change their history, having her birth date adjusted on her birth certificate somehow - I know women can be a bit tetchy about giving away their age but that was a new one on me!. I think that was the story anyway, she was either 20 or 40 years older than they realised.

I take it you don't believe that guy then? JS made one or two references to being a pirate, something to do with taking from the rich (money?) and giving to the poor

Some psychologists say children who are sexually abused sometimes become
abusers themselves when they grow up. I wonder was Savile sexually abused
as a child ? This wouldn't excuse any of the abuse he did, of course- instead
it would should how child sexual abuse can be horribly self-perpetuating.
Sometimes but not always. The subject has been discussed before but people tend to be a bit dismissive of it - he undoubtedly had a strange upbringing, having mentioned that his mother didn't give much, if any, affection to him/her children. His father isn't mentioned often, only that he worked alot as the main breadwinner and died when JS was a young teen I think.
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Old 21-01-2013, 22:38
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Sometimes but not always. The subject has been discussed before but people tend to be a bit dismissive of it - he undoubtedly had a strange upbringing, having mentioned that his mother didn't give much, if any, affection to him/her children. His father isn't mentioned often, only that he worked alot as the main breadwinner and died when JS was a young teen I think.
I've been wondering in addition to being a paedophile,
Saville might have been a "sociopath", "covert aggressive" or "socialised psychopath" - not someone who kills people, but someone who is incredibly
manipulative and lacks remorse and empathy.

Robert Maxwell has been repeatedly described as a sociopath, and I think Jimmy Savile was also one:

http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/maxwell.htm
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Old 21-01-2013, 23:15
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I've been wondering in addition to being a paedophile,
Saville might have been a "sociopath", "covert aggressive" or "socialised psychopath" - not someone who kills people, but someone who is incredibly
manipulative and lacks remorse and empathy.

Robert Maxwell has been repeatedly described as a sociopath, and I think Jimmy Savile was also one:

http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/maxwell.htm
I think its almost certain he was a sociopath - if he had empathy then you'd presume he may have chosen not to assault hospice patients and other particular vulnerable victims. He was certainly very manipulative, I don't think many people would doubt that. I'm not very familiar with Maxwell - he sounds charming too(!) (note sarcasm).
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Old 21-01-2013, 23:22
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Elm Guest House
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2013/01/...es-implicated/
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Old 22-01-2013, 00:43
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I think its almost certain he was a sociopath - if he had empathy then you'd presume he may have chosen not to assault hospice patients and other particular vulnerable victims. He was certainly very manipulative, I don't think many people would doubt that. I'm not very familiar with Maxwell - he sounds charming too(!) (note sarcasm).
I think Lance Armstrong may also be a sociopath. He seemed really cold and detached in his interview with Oprah, bullied many people when he was in cycling and had no empathy for any of those he trampled over.
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Old 22-01-2013, 01:31
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Elm guest house links to Holland
http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/cover-up...ks-to-holland/
Difficult to verify this sort of stuff.
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Old 22-01-2013, 01:58
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It seems the famous singer is only linked to gay sex (no surprise there), but not child abuse.
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