[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by rifleman

sorry but all the male professionals are at a disadvantage as the bulk of prople voting are female who will be voting for their boyband/pinup hero wether he has 2 left feet or not

Aren't you forgetting that for the first two years they had two female winners - Natasha and Jill! Aren't you also forgetting Alesha and Kara both fought and won the finals against two young, popular good looking men.

Nicky last year didn't manage to get to the semis/ finals and he's a boyband pin up! Four female celebs got further than he did!

And whatever you think of Harry and Louis they did not have '2 left feet'! I voted for Louis because I loved his dancing and partnership with Flavia! His attractiveness had little to do with it - Pasha whose the subject of this thread I find more attractive than Louis! It was the fact that Louis was paired with Flavia my favourite female pro and I loved the choreography she created for him that I voted for him to win!

[crimsonlake]

Originally Posted by rifleman

sorry but all the male professionals are at a disadvantage as the bulk of prople voting are female who will be voting for their boyband/pinup hero wether he has 2 left feet or not

If that were true then Kara wouldn't have won. The judges regularly comment that the male celebs are the ones at a disadvantage because they have to lead.

I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than hormonal voting. I've always felt that people genuinely vote for the best celeb dancer, but they also value other attributes such as warmth, humour, and a desire to support their pro partner. Using SCD to promote career aspirations never seems to go down well.

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by crimsonlake

If that were true then Kara wouldn't have won. The judges regularly comment that the male celebs are the ones at a disadvantage because they have to lead.

I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than hormonal voting. I've always felt that people genuinely vote for the best celeb dancer, but they also value other attributes such as warmth, humour, and a desire to support their pro partner. Using SCD to promote career aspirations never seems to go down well.

Agreed especially the BIB and that VT in which Kimberely blatantly plugged her forthcoming solo album did her no favours at all!

[Monaogg]

Originally Posted by crimsonlake

If that were true then Kara wouldn't have won. The judges regularly comment that the male celebs are the ones at a disadvantage because they have to lead.

I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than hormonal voting. I've always felt that people genuinely vote for the best celeb dancer, but they also value other attributes such as warmth, humour, and a desire to support their pro partner. Using SCD to promote career aspirations never seems to go down well.

On the Tour Matt & Aliona won most IIRC.

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by Monaogg

On the Tour Matt & Aliona won most IIRC.

I went to one of the dates on the tour that year and when I went Kara and Artem didn't perform because they were ill - they missed a few dates because of this and it could have hindered their momentum when they resumed touring.

The illness aside I think they probably wouldn't have won anyway because it's happened a few times that celebs who missed out on winning the tv series win the tour.

[SaraV1308]

Originally Posted by Monaogg

On the Tour Matt & Aliona won most IIRC.

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

I went to one of the dates on the tour that year and when I went Kara and Artem didn't perform because they were ill - they missed a few dates because of this and it could have hindered their momentum when they resumed touring.

The illness aside I think they probably wouldn't have won anyway because it's happened a few times that celebs who missed out on winning the tv series win the tour.

Even before Kara and Artem both got ill on the tour, they were already losing out to Matt and Aliona (and even James/Pamela).

[SaraV1308]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Aren't you forgetting that for the first two years they had two female winners - Natasha and Jill! Aren't you also forgetting Alesha and Kara both fought and won the finals against two young, popular good looking men.

Nicky last year didn't manage to get to the semis/ finals and he's a boyband pin up! Four female celebs got further than he did!

And whatever you think of Harry and Louis they did not have '2 left feet'! I voted for Louis because I loved his dancing and partnership with Flavia! His attractiveness had little to do with it - Pasha whose the subject of this thread I find more attractive than Louis! It was the fact that Louis was paired with Flavia my favourite female pro and I loved the choreography she created for him that I voted for him to win!

BIB .. don't forget in the first two years (and even for most of the third series), most of the talk was "Is a male celeb EVER going to win".... Perhaps now, the discussion should be "Will a Female Celeb ever win again...."

Originally Posted by crimsonlake

If that were true then Kara wouldn't have won. The judges regularly comment that the male celebs are the ones at a disadvantage because they have to lead.

I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than hormonal voting. I've always felt that people genuinely vote for the best celeb dancer, but they also value other attributes such as warmth, humour, and a desire to support their pro partner. Using SCD to promote career aspirations never seems to go down well.

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Agreed especially the BIB and that VT in which Kimberely blatantly plugged her forthcoming solo album did her no favours at all!

That I totally agree with. Many of the female celebs often have agendas were Strictly is concerned. I can't think of many male celebs over the years that have used Strictly solely to get on in their career. (Tom Chambers aside: I know he got Top Hat out of it eventually but I really don't think he set out to do Strictly with this in mind).

[katmobile]

Originally Posted by Paace

I agree, his showdance let them down but Louis was not the winner of SCD. The only reason he won was the overwhelmingly female vote .

I would put Kim and Denise equal first in the final and Louis third.

To quoteth Len "Give over" - maybe Louis was not the best dancer technically but considerations like being the best dancer without any obvious background that gave him an advantage, possibly the best showdance that wasn't a series of lifts and being the biggest victim of biased judging may well have been factors too alongside Dani's showdance not really coming off.

[Monkseal]

Originally Posted by SaraV1308

That I totally agree with. Many of the female celebs often have agendas were Strictly is concerned. I can't think of many male celebs over the years that have used Strictly solely to get on in their career. (Tom Chambers aside: I know he got Top Hat out of it eventually but I really don't think he set out to do Strictly with this in mind).

The men who do this show have exactly the same agendas as the women, it's just that "trying to relaunch her music career" for some reason carries more negative connotations for people than "trying to get a spot spouting bollocks on Match Of The Day".

[Pashulty]

Originally Posted by Monkseal

The men who do this show have exactly the same agendas as the women, it's just that "trying to relaunch her music career" for some reason carries more negative connotations for people than "trying to get a spot spouting bollocks on Match Of The Day".

Monkseal to the rescue again...lol...

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by Monkseal

The men who do this show have exactly the same agendas as the women, it's just that "trying to relaunch her music career" for some reason carries more negative connotations for people than "trying to get a spot spouting bollocks on Match Of The Day".

I agree that the male and female celebs both have agendas in wanting to enhance their careers but in Kimberley's case it was so blatant! Not only did she plug her forthcoming album in one of the VTs but she was allowed to perform with GA at wembley - and before someone points it out I know the wembley performance was for a charity single but since I've been watching I've never seen someone allowed to perform one of their tracks while they were competing in the show! Her management also made sure her solo album was swiftly released after Strictly had finished!

[idetached]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

I agree that the male and female celebs both have agendas in wanting to enhance their careers but in Kimberley's case it was so blatant! Not only did she plug her forthcoming album in one of the VTs but she was allowed to perform with GA at wembley - and before someone points it out I know the wembley performance was for a charity single but since I've been watching I've never seen someone allowed to perform one of their tracks while they were competing in the show! Her management also made sure her solo album was swiftly released after Strictly had finished!

So what's wrong with her doing any of this? If the opportunity presents itself she would have been a fool not to take it. She is not the only celebrity to use the show to further her career. The biggest objections about this seem to come from people upset that she was open about it. It wasn't hidden. All the celebrities do it. Being on the show also helps the judges get other opportunities. It's the best format for helping celebs bring more attention to themselves and it always has been.

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by idetached

So what's wrong with her doing any of this? If the opportunity presents itself she would have been a fool not to take it. She is not the only celebrity to use the show to further her career. The biggest objections about this seem to come from people upset that she was open about it. It wasn't hidden. All the celebrities do it. Being on the show also helps the judges get other opportunities. It's the best format for helping celebs bring more attention to themselves and it always has been.

I believe I pointed out that she was not the only celeb to use the show to further her career and I don't have a problem with celebs, judges and dancers using SCD as a springboard to further their careers but she was the one who was the most blatant about it during the show! And yes my objection was the VT in which she conveniently mentioned her album and if any other celeb had behaved the same it would have put me off them too! When I watch strictly I want to see celebs concentrating on learning to dance and perform - not plugging their latest ventures!

I didn't have a problem with Kimberely doing Strictly - in fact even though I've never rated her as a singer, I've always thought she was an attractive, lovely personality and as part of GA I think she's quite a good performer and when she was announced as a contestant I really wanted her to be paired with Pasha - however during the show, I don't think she came across at times as well as she could have done.

[peeve]

Getting back to the subject of the thread, I don't think there's the least need to feel sorry for Pasha, or for any of the pro dancers in the show, to be frank. They are all getting an opportunity that many other professional ballroom dancers would give their right arm for.

They are competitors, sure, but not so blind that they think winning the glitter-ball is the be-all and end-all. Of course they would prefer to get contenders, since that gives them more air-time, more opportunity to show off their dancing and choreography skills, more likelihood of public recognition and furtherance of their own careers.

I saw Pasha and Katya's touring show last year and it was great fun, so I'm going again this year. Would I have gone had I not seen them on the telly? Probably not. Ditto the Dance to the Music tour with Artem and Kara, Robin and Kristina, and Davarch and his wonderful orchestra. They all make a nice living off the back of their Strictly recognition, so feeling sorry for any of them is just not on my agenda.

And I know I'm going to be driven mad over the coming months by the endless threads on the subject of which pro dancers 'deserve' a contender or a duffer, so I'll get my view out of the way now. The answer is: none of them 'deserves' anything other than what the producers think will make good telly and improve the ratings.

[cheryl_quinney]

[quote=*Topaz*;64026817]I agree that the male and female celebs both have agendas in wanting to enhance their careers but in Kimberley's case it was so blatant! Not only did she plug her forthcoming album in one of the VTs but she was allowed to perform with GA at wembley - and before someone points it out I know the wembley performance was for a charity single but since I've been watching I've never seen someone allowed to perform one of their tracks while they were competing in the show! Her management also made sure her solo album was swiftly released after Strictly had finished![/QUOTE]

Well this is rubbish. Her album is released tomorrow - well over a month after Strictly has finished! Hardly swift is it

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by cheryl_quinney

Well this is rubbish. Her album is released tomorrow - well over a month after Strictly has finished! Hardly swift is it

Are you serious? Oh and thanks for calling my view rubbish - that's very polite of you

Seriously you're not going to sway my opinion by being downright rude!!!

I stand my view - her album can be pre ordered and as soon as she finished strictly it has had extensive promotion/hype leading up to the release - particularly the prime time spot she got at the NTAs with her awkward attempt at doing the cover of 'ODIFA' live. I think a month and a bit after SCD ends is a swift release!

Originally Posted by peeve

And I know I'm going to be driven mad over the coming months by the endless threads on the subject of which pro dancers 'deserve' a contender or a duffer, so I'll get my view out of the way now. The answer is: none of them 'deserves' anything other than what the producers think will make good telly and improve the ratings.

I don't mind the threads - I think a lot of people like to see different pros showcased and some pros have had plenty of chances to shine while others haven't - I think it's a British thing of wanting fair play which is why although I wouldn't mind if Pasha gets a contender again I think it'll be understandable if he gets a more challenging celeb this year if he returns - and I'd like to see what he could do with someone different.

The only pro I wouldn't want to see ever get a contender is Anton for I think obvious reasosns - lousy Latin primarily.

[abs x]

Pasha may not be around for the next series anyway because going by her tweets Marian Keyes is going to eat him alive tonight at the O2. She is scarily obsessed with him ha ha

[Pashulty]

Originally Posted by abs x

Pasha may not be around for the next series anyway because going by her tweets Marian Keyes is going to eat him alive tonight at the O2. She scarily obsessed with him ha ha

[idetached]

Originally Posted by abs x

Pasha may not be around for the next series anyway because going by her tweets Marian Keyes is going to eat him alive tonight at the O2. She is scarily obsessed with him ha ha

I just hope it's all put on YT.

[jeffiner1892]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Are you serious? Oh and
The only pro I wouldn't want to see ever get a contender is Anton for I think obvious reasosns - lousy Latin primarily.

To be honest after 2009 I don't think Anton will ever get a decent contender again anyway.

Back on topic, I don't really feel that sorry for Pasha because as already said, he got two finalists in two years whereas some pros have gone years without decent celebrities.

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by jeffiner1892

To be honest after 2009 I don't think Anton will ever get a decent contender again anyway.

Back on topic, I don't really feel that sorry for Pasha because as already said, he got two finalists in two years whereas some pros have gone years without decent celebrities.

Hi jeffiner - welcome, it's nice to see a new poster on the forum. Yes I doubt the producers will be foolish enough to give Anton a contender again but even he has his fans/supporters who feel he's been hard done by I reckon he's probably relieved that he gets the no hopers/joke acts now - that way he does a minimal amount of work but still gets the money/publicity!

I can see why some people don't feel sorry for Pasha because compared to some pros he has been very lucky but because I like him I do feel sympathy for him because he's got so near yet so far in winning and pros don't get that chance very often.

Having said that I won't feel sorry for him if he gets Marion Keyes as a partner because that's a pairing that I so want to happen I'm not sure she'll do it but I have heard that she has said she'd do strictly if Pasha was her partner but she might have been joking. She'll be the ideal challenging celeb for him and I think they'll be a right laugh together and unlike a certain other pro <cough> Anton I think Pasha would actually teach her to dance

[jeffiner1892]

Thanks for welcome .

Yeah I feel sorry for him in the so near yet so far aspect but if he decides to stay long term he'll get his chance at some point I think.

He needs to try and nail that showdance mind!

[Miss_Edith]

Originally Posted by peeve

Getting back to the subject of the thread, I don't think there's the least need to feel sorry for Pasha, or for any of the pro dancers in the show, to be frank. They are all getting an opportunity that many other professional ballroom dancers would give their right arm for.

They are competitors, sure, but not so blind that they think winning the glitter-ball is the be-all and end-all. Of course they would prefer to get contenders, since that gives them more air-time, more opportunity to show off their dancing and choreography skills, more likelihood of public recognition and furtherance of their own careers.

I saw Pasha and Katya's touring show last year and it was great fun, so I'm going again this year. Would I have gone had I not seen them on the telly? Probably not. Ditto the Dance to the Music tour with Artem and Kara, Robin and Kristina, and Davarch and his wonderful orchestra. They all make a nice living off the back of their Strictly recognition, so feeling sorry for any of them is just not on my agenda.

And I know I'm going to be driven mad over the coming months by the endless threads on the subject of which pro dancers 'deserve' a contender or a duffer, so I'll get my view out of the way now. The answer is: none of them 'deserves' anything other than what the producers think will make good telly and improve the ratings.

Tea-over-keyboard snort.
On topic: I just hope that the BBC will abandon the 'comic' contestants. Ann Widdecombe and such I can cheerfully do without.

[robbies_gal]

its anton i feel sorry for has he ever had a good partner?

[SaraV1308]

Originally Posted by robbies_gal

its anton i feel sorry for has he ever had a good partner?

Laila

lesley Garrett

Both had potential....