[d'@ve]

Originally Posted by VisionMan1

Indeed. But BT will be asking for minimum line speed requirements before signing anyone up to the new services. Just like they do now with BT Vision. The minimum line speed requirement will be 26Mbps. And at that speed, there will be no impact on others home internet usage.

I don't see how they can guarantee that unless they can maintain completely separate backhaul paths from wherever the linear channel bandwidth is measured and controlled (cabinet/exchange/wherever). To take it to an extreme, if all or most Infinity users connected to a cabinet or exchange were to be watching one HD linear channel and recording another at the same time (hypothetically the World Cup final/Champions League final etc.) there would be an obvious risk that they'd have to take a big chunk of bandwidth from all ordinary Internet users in the area, to maintain linear channel quality, and that it would make a big dent in everyone's Internet speeds at the time.

I'm sure they will plan for this possibility and I just hope they get it right, I've got well used to my 75Mbps rock-solid 24/7 internet speeds now and I quite like it!

[VisionMan1]

Originally Posted by d'@ve

I don't see how they can guarantee that unless they can maintain completely separate backhaul paths from wherever the linear channel bandwidth is measured and controlled (cabinet/exchange/wherever). To take it to an extreme, if all or most Infinity users connected to a cabinet or exchange were to be watching one HD linear channel and recording another at the same time (hypothetically the World Cup final/Champions League final etc.) there would be an obvious risk that they'd have to take a big chunk of bandwidth from all ordinary Internet users in the area, to maintain linear channel quality, and that it would make a big dent in everyone's Internet speeds at the time.

I'm sure they will plan for this possibility and I just hope they get it right.

Why D@ve, you already know about Multicast. One network signal. Many users.

[d'@ve]

Originally Posted by VisionMan1

Why D@ve, you already know about Multicast. One network signal. Many users.

Doesn't guarantee anything, just makes it easier and less bandwidthy for BT than otherwise it would have been. Lessens but does not eliminate the risks especially at cabinet level. I assume multicast will be implemented at exchange level?

I do think they will get it right though, it would be surprising if they did not.

[noise747]

Originally Posted by d'@ve

Yes but it could still lead to congestion (therefore slow-downs) for non-protected services (ordinary Internet usage) - that's my concern. I think I read somewhere that the only guarantee on fibre (by BT Openreach) is a minimum download speed of 15 Mbps... anything below that is counted as a fault. So not exactly a slouch but it does show what BT could try to get away with if linear channels and other video-type services take off in a big way. Let's hope they plan this properly to avoid such issues.

I think I will skip this FTTC thing for the next couple of years or so and stay as I am. while the contract is a bit longer than what I normally like to sign up to, i am already nearly 8 months into the contract.
As long as the service I get is reliable I will stick with it. the whole reason I went with ADSL24 and the cable and wireless network was to try and get away from Bt equipment. Now I am further away from them.
Suits me.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by DeelyBopper

I was advised by a sales chap a few weeks ago that today they would launch some new packages that have been upgraded to unlimited broadband.

Doesn't look like their web-site has been updated yet but some blurb here http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5...unlimited.html

I have signed up to Totally Unlimited Infinity 1. £9 first 3 months, £18 thereafter (18 months contract).

BT infinty 1 40 gig usage is £18, the package you stated is £23, so how did you get it for the wrong price O_o

Incidently I am an existing customer on bT infinity 2, I only signed up 1 month ago.

I rang up on saturday to recontract to the new product at the ssame price point which is the totally unlimited infinity 2 package.

Here is what I think people need to watch out for if in similiar position to me.

1 - if currently getting a introductory discount and then recontract you will lose that discount, in my case I had 1 month discount left (since first payment is first 2 months).
2 - if prepaid line rental so on line rental saver, check it stays in place after, my email receipt shows a normal line rental price on it, the lady who took my upgrade order stated it wont change and a live chat request I did after the order they said the email is 'wrong' and it stays intact, but this is just to warn people to make sure it stays.

now for the real messy stuff.

I ordered on saturday. The old product is called infinity 2, the new is called unlimited infinity 2. My activation date is supposed to be 5th feb, but I got an email some hours after my call stating the new product order is completed. hmmm. If I goto the order status page on the my BT page, it shows 'no' pending orders. oddd. But If I mnaually enter the order number the order appears with the activation date of 5th feb however below that activation date it says completed.

If I goto the services page it shows my current product as infinity 2 (the non upgraded package).

If I goto the upgrade package page and try to initiate a online upgrade to the new product it rejects me stating I am already on that product.

If I do a p2p glasnost test to see if its shaped, it reports port 6881 still shaped.

So the BT website appears to be a complete mess, many parts of it stating I am on the old product and 2 parts stating I am already upgraded, also finally the product name on my email receipt and order status page is the old product just infinity 2. So its even possible the lady put the wrong upgrade through. I will find out tommorow I guess if this has worked or not.

The good news of course if like me was tied to a 18 month contract with 16 months left to go, this recontract reduces it to 12 months.

[noise747]

Some of these ISPs are getting worse for making things plain and simple. I just had a look on the Bt website just to be nosy and even I was confused for a while about what they offer and what each package is. So how on earth are other people going to cope?

Broadband is getting as bad as buying energy with so many tariffs, that it is difficult to know what to go for, they do it on purpose to confuse people.

What they need and this is the same for mobile phone networks as well, is a system that allows people to pick the parts they want and then tell them the price after.

So say on BT website, you want unlimited broadband with fibre, then evening and weekend calls on that and then it will come up with how much it costs. Line rental is my bug bear, but that will have to be included.

sky used to have something like it on their websites before they pushed their mixes into just two packages. I thin hey still got the same sort of system.

[DeelyBopper]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

BT infinty 1 40 gig usage is £18, the package you stated is £23, so how did you get it for the wrong price O_o

Incidently I am an existing customer on bT infinity 2, I only signed up 1 month ago.

I rang up on saturday to recontract to the new product at the ssame price point which is the totally unlimited infinity 2 package.

Here is what I think people need to watch out for if in similiar position to me.

1 - if currently getting a introductory discount and then recontract you will lose that discount, in my case I had 1 month discount left (since first payment is first 2 months).
2 - if prepaid line rental so on line rental saver, check it stays in place after, my email receipt shows a normal line rental price on it, the lady who took my upgrade order stated it wont change and a live chat request I did after the order they said the email is 'wrong' and it stays intact, but this is just to warn people to make sure it stays.

now for the real messy stuff.

I ordered on saturday. The old product is called infinity 2, the new is called unlimited infinity 2. My activation date is supposed to be 5th feb, but I got an email some hours after my call stating the new product order is completed. hmmm. If I goto the order status page on the my BT page, it shows 'no' pending orders. oddd. But If I mnaually enter the order number the order appears with the activation date of 5th feb however below that activation date it says completed.

If I goto the services page it shows my current product as infinity 2 (the non upgraded package).

If I goto the upgrade package page and try to initiate a online upgrade to the new product it rejects me stating I am already on that product.

If I do a p2p glasnost test to see if its shaped, it reports port 6881 still shaped.

So the BT website appears to be a complete mess, many parts of it stating I am on the old product and 2 parts stating I am already upgraded, also finally the product name on my email receipt and order status page is the old product just infinity 2. So its even possible the lady put the wrong upgrade through. I will find out tommorow I guess if this has worked or not.

The good news of course if like me was tied to a 18 month contract with 16 months left to go, this recontract reduces it to 12 months.

I don't think I got it for the 'wrong' price. It was an offer after 3 attempts to sign me up over 3 weeks. Their website doesn't advertise the deal naturally. When I mentioned this to BT the rep said 'they' had different prices.

I do agree with you that the website is a complete mess. I'm concerned that the rep has signed me up for something else than what I believe to have been offered. Yet its hard to believe as I was very clear and asked him to repeat the deal several times over more than one phone call.

[DeelyBopper]

Well, I am suspicious that I've been mis-sold and signed up to the wrong package. So I thought I'd ring BT to clarify details.

OMG, ringing them is like banging your head against a brick wall. I rang them on 0800 800 150 and apparently spoke to Jay Singh (after going through more automated menus than I care for).

I was told Infinity 1 (40gb). I told him about the 3 previous sales calls and he said all he could do was cancel the order and that I could then re-order if I wished.

If I did that I'd have to sign up for a more expensive package. Which is out of the question (I'll just stick with my current provider if thats the case).

What do I do? Jay Singh said he'd send an e-mail to the guy I originally spoke to asking him to ring me. I asked him to just put me through so I could speak to him but nope, can only send an e-mail.

The whole thing has just left me wondering if I want to go with them (even at the right price).

I basically spend 22 minutes on the 'phone was wasn't told anything that I couldn't read of their web-site.

Obviously atm the engineer visit is arranged and I'm expecting the hub to arrive Friday.

[bottleofbest]

Originally Posted by DeelyBopper

Well, I am suspicious that I've been mis-sold and signed up to the wrong package. So I thought I'd ring BT to clarify details.

OMG, ringing them is like banging your head against a brick wall. I rang them on 0800 800 150 and apparently spoke to Jay Singh (after going through more automated menus than I care for).

I was told Infinity 1 (40gb). I told him about the 3 previous sales calls and he said all he could do was cancel the order and that I could then re-order if I wished.

If I did that I'd have to sign up for a more expensive package. Which is out of the question (I'll just stick with my current provider if thats the case).

What do I do? Jay Singh said he'd send an e-mail to the guy I originally spoke to asking him to ring me. I asked him to just put me through so I could speak to him but nope, can only send an e-mail.

The whole thing has just left me wondering if I want to go with them (even at the right price).

I basically spend 22 minutes on the 'phone was wasn't told anything that I couldn't read of their web-site.

Obviously atm the engineer visit is arranged and I'm expecting the hub to arrive Friday.

The automated menus are changing to voice activated ones this year. Possibly Spring I have been told.

In regards to infinity offer you got. Why not try sales again or the customer option teams for the best offers?

[DeelyBopper]

Originally Posted by bottleofbest

The automated menus are changing to voice activated ones this year. Possibly Spring I have been told.

In regards to infinity offer you got. Why not try sales again or the customer option teams for the best offers?

I would if I knew how or thought it might help. Is there a different number? If there is a different department then the guy I spoke to must have been the most unhelpful customer services rep there is as he didn't mention any other numbers I could call. But kept repeating the same crap that all he could do was cancel the order.

Anyhoo, cheers for the help.

[RileyM]

That sucks, BT Total Broadband Option 3 customers who signed up before 1 Feb (like myself) are stilll traffic managed!?!

Can anyone see a difference between the Unlimited Broadband Extra and Faster Unlimited Broadband packages? I cant see any, yet the Fast Unlimited Broadband costs more.

[syko29793]

Originally Posted by RileyM

Can anyone see a difference between the Unlimited Broadband Extra and Faster Unlimited Broadband packages? I cant see any, yet the Fast Unlimited Broadband costs more.

The Unlimited Broadband Extra is just standard copper based broadband. The Faster Unlimited Broadband product is more expensive as it is fibre based and is for those on lines that are too far from the cabinet to have BT Infinity.

[Mr Dangerous]

I signed up for BT last month, I went for Option 2 which was a 40gig capped tariff the same as my previous provider. Sadly because of this option I didn't get six months free BB, I could only get that if I went for the 10GB cap tariff.

Saw adverts for BT BB last week and eh? what? unlimted for what? I phoned BT and asked if it was possible to get unlimited even after a few weeks getting option 2. I was upgraded to unlimited and it's £2 cheaper than the old Option2.

It seems they had this new offer under wraps even when I placed my original order.

ANYWAY, for your information, I'm getting a 15MB connection which is good considering 17MB is the maximum I can get in my area. (I use three speed testers to get a better picture of my speed)

[moox]

Originally Posted by d'@ve

I don't see how they can guarantee that unless they can maintain completely separate backhaul paths from wherever the linear channel bandwidth is measured and controlled (cabinet/exchange/wherever). To take it to an extreme, if all or most Infinity users connected to a cabinet or exchange were to be watching one HD linear channel and recording another at the same time (hypothetically the World Cup final/Champions League final etc.) there would be an obvious risk that they'd have to take a big chunk of bandwidth from all ordinary Internet users in the area, to maintain linear channel quality, and that it would make a big dent in everyone's Internet speeds at the time.

I'm sure they will plan for this possibility and I just hope they get it right, I've got well used to my 75Mbps rock-solid 24/7 internet speeds now and I quite like it!

BT is able to do this, they sell a service that any ISP can buy that gives them guaranteed bandwidth for a set period of time. It was available on ADSL, I don't know if it has made the jump to fibre. They have used it for BT Vision customers while downloading VoD.

The fibre services have a pretty hefty guaranteed throughput - I think it's 12 or 16Mbps, so it's up to BT to build a network that can meet that + any other demand from other services. At least the cabinets should all have spare fibre for more backhaul.

[noise747]

Originally Posted by bottleofbest

The automated menus are changing to voice activated ones this year. Possibly Spring I have been told.

Those are worse. i remember a couple of years back trying to get through to my insurance company with these voice activated menus. Like a flipping nightmare.

i know technology is better these days, but i can't see the voice activated menus being much better.

In regards to infinity offer you got. Why not try sales again or the customer option teams for the best offers?

why can't these companies just give a decent customer service? it is not difficult.

[*MikeB*]

Originally Posted by d'@ve

I assume multicast will be implemented at exchange level?

I do think they will get it right though, it would be surprising if they did not.

It is done at headend level. I've explained this a few times on here but no one pays attention.

With FTTC from Openreach all of the cabinets are connected to a nearby headend which is inside an exchange. Not necessarily your closest exchange. A headend takes care of usually 3 or 4 exchange areas.

They have a massive amount of bandwidth to these headends.

Your cabinet may not be connected to your local exchange. In fact there's more chance it isn't. So they don't need mega bandwidth to every exchange, only the FTTC headend ones.

[eljmayes]

I would have a piece of this if BT offered a twelve month intial contract. It looks as though broadband marketplace in the future will be fought on price and customer service as we all (eventually!) get decent speeds and unlimited data caps.

[Simon Rodgers]

BTs service is limited because it keeps cutting out. Try to complain and no-one can help. It's disgusting!

[robertcrowther]

Originally Posted by *MikeB*

It is done at headend level. I've explained this a few times on here but no one pays attention.

With FTTC from Openreach all of the cabinets are connected to a nearby headend which is inside an exchange. Not necessarily your closest exchange. A headend takes care of usually 3 or 4 exchange areas.

They have a massive amount of bandwidth to these headends.

Your cabinet may not be connected to your local exchange. In fact there's more chance it isn't. So they don't need mega bandwidth to every exchange, only the FTTC headend ones.

Sorry, but this is not how FTTC works. All the FTTC cabinets are connected to your local exchange, from the local exchange the connection goes to what is called a metro node, this metro node serves many exchanges.

[*MikeB*]

Originally Posted by robertcrowther

Sorry, but this is not how FTTC works. All the FTTC cabinets are connected to your local exchange, from the local exchange the connection goes to what is called a metro node, this metro node serves many exchanges.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. I know that for a fact. I know the routing of the fibre from the cabinets in my town for example, they don't go into my local exchange they go to one 4 miles away.

Where are you getting you information from may I ask?

[VisionMan1]

Originally Posted by robertcrowther

Sorry, but this is not how FTTC works. All the FTTC cabinets are connected to your local exchange, from the local exchange the connection goes to what is called a metro node, this metro node serves many exchanges.

Hi,

MikeB's acually talking about Multicast IPTV, in reply to D@ve.

[*MikeB*]

Originally Posted by VisionMan1

Hi,

MikeB's acually talking about Multicast IPTV, in reply to D@ve.

I'm talking about how FTTC works and I am absoutely correct. Can't say how I'm so confident, but I am. I would guess Mr Crowther doesn't work in the industry in any way and just likes to tell people they are wrong when actually he doesn't know.

Read the 3rd post on page 1 in this thread by someone from an ISP explaining the same:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fib...fpart=all&vc=1

"You will find that small exchanges which have FTTC are not actually fed from the small exchange, but a bigger exchange already. For example, our exchange (Saddleworth) serves around 10,000 properties, and can get FTTC but the actual Fibre comes from the Oldham exchange, not Saddleworth. Openreach/BTw provide a list to ISPs that indicate which exchange areas are fed from which fibre head-end."

There we go, believe me now?

[*MikeB*]

People are so quick to have a go on this forum now, then when proven wrong they don't reply!

[bottleofbest]

Originally Posted by noise747

Those are worse. i remember a couple of years back trying to get through to my insurance company with these voice activated menus. Like a flipping nightmare.

i know technology is better these days, but i can't see the voice activated menus being much better.


why can't these companies just give a decent customer service? it is not difficult.

Because it's standard practice across the board. The best offers are always done by sales or retentions teams; that's just the way it works. I have VM at home, the best offers are done through these teams, it doesn't mean their customer service teams are no good, it's just their not to necessarily sell but do a different job.

When a customer comes through to me, I regularly do account reviews because customers are on the wrong packages and are spending a fortune on calls. I save so many customers so much by making sure they're on the right plan for their usage and that's more important than selling to me.

[robertcrowther]

Originally Posted by *MikeB*

People are so quick to have a go on this forum now, then when proven wrong they don't reply!

So sorry to prove you wrong. Maybe you should learn things before slagging people off, especially people who do work in the industry.

Please see following link: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/ispnews/d...titive/nga.gif