Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 
 

Doc Martin (Part 14 Spoilers)


Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-02-2013, 01:10
SusieSagitarius
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 1,127
In support of your theory, ShopGirl, remember that the time she really lost her temper at her friends sitting on the patio was when they started joking about DM being a father -- Pauline saying, essentially, "him warm and caring ..right!"

I can't imagine that she wrote that she was pregnant in the letter. But maybe she knew or strongly suspected when she left town?
I don't think she wrote she was pregnant either, since when he opens the door to her in S4 E1, he says with great surprise and looking at her belly: "You're pregnant! And then later in S4 E2 confirms to him that "it is ours, Martin, yours and mine".

But the joking about him being a father: perhaps a great piece of foreshadowing, maybe, or maybe even a hint (clever of BP and the writers, if it was?).
SusieSagitarius is offline  
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 05-02-2013, 01:13
cc.cookie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,388
The fact that I have very much been reading this forum made me make such a remark !! because I, personally, dont rate the guy and think he is a bit of a phoney and living off his name!!!! IMO!! cant in my wildest dreams imagine why anyone would credit him with anything to with the sucess of DM!! What did he do???
He made up the characters for the show and gave them a back story, he wrote the whole series architecture (basic outline) extending to series 6, 7 etc and he wrote the majority of series 1 & 2 where I fell in love with the characters. : )

He wrote Robyn Hood and a few other shows as well.
cc.cookie is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 01:16
dmbesotted
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 338
I dont think he cared one way or the other about Edith enough that she could have influenced his decision. Remember that he was working on the phobia at the beginning of the first episode. He had managed quite well as a GP with the phobia and had Pauline in place to handle most of the blood issues. Once Louisa left he had no desire to stay in Portwenn. Even having AJ there couldn't overcome the lump in his throat any time he saw a dark haired ponytail swinging anywhere near the school.

As far as when Louisa left, here's an interesting theory. I have been reading the old forum posts and looking at the ones now from when they were filming S4. About the only thing they knew for sure at that point was that Louisa was pregnant. One theory put out there was that she informed him of the pregnancy in her note to him that she tried to leave on the wedding day. Their thought was that she decided when up on the hill and having the conversation about Martin being the godfather. She figured if he didn't want to be a godfather (her interpretation), then how could he be a father?

This has made me think. We know that she didn't reveal the pregnancy in the letter, but wasn't it about 3 1/2 - 4 weeks from the engagement night to the wedding? So, wouldn't that have been enough time for her to realize that her period was late and take a test? (I think you can take those tests that early?). Maybe she found out the night before the wedding or even that morning - that could explain her kind of being all over the place emotionally. So during the godfather discussion maybe she decided that he wouldn't make a good father so she bailed out of the wedding and left pretty quickly for London to make decisions about her life? Just a theory
I tend to agree that he probably was already giving serious consideration to leaving. And I say that because initially he did not defend his position as the GP. Recall that he did that when his father made fun of him. He seemed a bit embarassed by his circumstances in front of Edith.

However, as things progressed and he got closer, there were a number of incidents which Edith trivialized which DM took very seriously ---- but I am getting ahead of the rewatch
dmbesotted is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 01:19
dmbesotted
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 338
He made up the characters for the show and gave them a back story, he wrote the whole series architecture (basic outline) extending to series 6, 7 etc and he wrote the majority of series 1 & 2 where I fell in love with the characters. : )

He wrote Robyn Hood and a few other shows as well.
Well, do we really know that he wrote an outline extending into S6 and 7? And do we know that they are sticking close to his outline? Some of his comments about not knowing what is going on in S5 can leave one wondering.
dmbesotted is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:04
ReneeBird
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,290
The fact that I have very much been reading this forum made me make such a remark !! because I, personally, dont rate the guy and think he is a bit of a phoney and living off his name!!!! IMO!! cant in my wildest dreams imagine why anyone would credit him with anything to with the sucess of DM!! What did he do???
He made up the characters for the show and gave them a back story, he wrote the whole series architecture (basic outline) extending to series 6, 7 etc and he wrote the majority of series 1 & 2 where I fell in love with the characters. : )

He wrote Robyn Hood and a few other shows as well.
I think Dominic Minghella is a very talented man. Not only is he a writer, but he and his partner also own a production company. He's accomplished a lot more in his life than I ever will. And he's always seemed, to me, a genuinely nice man. However, not everybody has to like him, but I don't think this forum is a particularly good place to say unkind things about him, IMHO.
ReneeBird is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:21
RubyRedi
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 221
He made up the characters for the show and gave them a back story, he wrote the whole series architecture (basic outline) extending to series 6, 7 etc and he wrote the majority of series 1 & 2 where I fell in love with the characters. : )

He wrote Robyn Hood and a few other shows as well.
Well, I would have to disagree with you there, Craig Ferguson still gets credit for (???) To me MC and his Mrs came up with the basic idea and (IMO) still run the show (James Henry being a prime example) I think if u asked Dominic M what was going on with Doc M at this stage he wouldnt have a clue!!! Its just a job for them!!

I dont doubt Dominic Ms talent but do think he feeds off the name(and particularly the sucess of the show)!! but in a kinda sleekit way - and thats what I dont like about him.

Now that Im up and running, I also need to say that I think Caroline Catz is very much underrated and for me just makes the show!! Can you imagine the Docs Mrs being anyone else???? Both of them play it to a tee!! thats what makes it so good eh!!!
RubyRedi is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:38
lemster
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 183

Now that Im up and running, I also need to say that I think Caroline Catz is very much underrated and for me just makes the show!! Can you imagine the Docs Mrs being anyone else???? Both of them play it to a tee!! thats what makes it so good eh!!!
I'll second that.
lemster is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:56
RubyRedi
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 221
I think Dominic Minghella is a very talented man. Not only is he a writer, but he and his partner also own a production company. He's accomplished a lot more in his life than I ever will. And he's always seemed, to me, a genuinely nice man. However, not everybody has to like him, but I don't think this forum is a particularly good place to say unkind things about him, IMHO.
I agree with you that he appears to be a very talented man and yes he has accomplished more than you or I could dream .I didnt think I was saying unkind things about him, I was just voicing my opinion - which I thought this forum was all about!! but hey!!!!! I was in no way trying to bring him down, but still dont get the credit thing (like why is Craig Ferguson still credited - might be a legal thing?) OK he was there in the beginning (and very much a part of it) but then they parted (its just a job - he's away to something new)! So why would you expect him to answer questions relating to his job 6 yrs previous x
RubyRedi is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 03:19
Shop Girl
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,175
I don't think she wrote she was pregnant either, since when he opens the door to her in S4 E1, he says with great surprise and looking at her belly: "You're pregnant! And then later in S4 E2 confirms to him that "it is ours, Martin, yours and mine".

But the joking about him being a father: perhaps a great piece of foreshadowing, maybe, or maybe even a hint (clever of BP and the writers, if it was?).
I absolutely agree that the pregnancy announcement was not in the letter. That was actually the speculation on this forum during S4 filming.

But it is interesting to wonder if she knew at the time she called off the wedding.
Shop Girl is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 03:21
RubyRedi
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 221
I'll second that.
Thankyou lemster, thought it was only me and Sendibo who appreciated her talents!!! x
RubyRedi is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 03:35
NewPark
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,107
Thankyou lemster, thought it was only me and Sendibo who appreciated her talents!!! x
Oh, no, no. I think she's a wonderful actress--Martin Clunes said in an interview that she was one of those actresses that "make us actors pull our socks up" and he's totally right to be so appreciative of her talents. I'm sure many here share that sentiment.
NewPark is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:14
dcdmfan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Washington, DC USA
Posts: 1,403
I don't think she wrote she was pregnant either, since when he opens the door to her in S4 E1, he says with great surprise and looking at her belly: "You're pregnant! And then later in S4 E2 confirms to him that "it is ours, Martin, yours and mine".

But the joking about him being a father: perhaps a great piece of foreshadowing, maybe, or maybe even a hint (clever of BP and the writers, if it was?).
I think it's fun to wonder if Louisa knew she was pregnant at the end of series 3. I definitely think the producers knew she was. Great symmetry with the endings of series 3 & 4. Both had births in them.

On that note, and sorry to jump ahead of the re-watch, but I noticed some continuity from S4e8 to S5e1. Mr. Hubble - the man whose arm has gone all tingly in S5e1 can be seen with his arm in a sling in S4e8. He's in one of the crowd shots when Pauline is broadcasting the birth. I just noticed that a few weeks ago when that ep was on television here.
dcdmfan is offline Follow this poster on Twitter  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:17
dcdmfan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Washington, DC USA
Posts: 1,403
I agree with you that he appears to be a very talented man and yes he has accomplished more than you or I could dream .I didnt think I was saying unkind things about him, I was just voicing my opinion - which I thought this forum was all about!! but hey!!!!! I was in no way trying to bring him down, but still dont get the credit thing (like why is Craig Ferguson still credited - might be a legal thing?) OK he was there in the beginning (and very much a part of it) but then they parted (its just a job - he's away to something new)! So why would you expect him to answer questions relating to his job 6 yrs previous x
I think it is probably a legal thing that requires them to list Dominic Minghella and Craig Ferguson in the credits. I am pretty sure they both get paid royalties every time the show is broadcast.
dcdmfan is offline Follow this poster on Twitter  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:34
SusieSagitarius
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 1,127

Well, I would have to disagree with you there, Craig Ferguson still gets credit for (???) To me MC and his Mrs came up with the basic idea and (IMO) still run the show (James Henry being a prime example) I think if u asked Dominic M what was going on with Doc M at this stage he wouldnt have a clue!!! Its just a job for them!!

I dont doubt Dominic Ms talent but do think he feeds off the name(and particularly the sucess of the show)!! but in a kinda sleekit way - and thats what I dont like about him.

Now that Im up and running, I also need to say that I think Caroline Catz is very much underrated and for me just makes the show!! Can you imagine the Docs Mrs being anyone else???? Both of them play it to a tee!! thats what makes it so good eh!!!

Ok, it is back to doing research.
I've found agreements about how screenwriters do their jobs and work with producers in the US. That led me to figuring that the UK must have similar rules, guidelines, etc. and indeed there are.
I found this website for the writers guild: http://www.writersguild.org.uk/about...tes-agreements
I found a document there that specifies all manner of things particular to writers and TV production:
http://www.writersguild.org.uk/image...appendices.pdf

I then found the ITV Commissioning webpage http://www.itv.com/commissioning/
with a link for Producers' Guidelines at
http://www.itv.com/commissioning/producers-guidelines/
that has a long list of other documents relevant to productions of which
http://www.itv.com/documents/pdf/ITV...it%20Rules.pdf
explained the crediting guidelines.

After spending considerable time reading and scanning through these fascinating documents, I have a new real huge appreciation for what Philippa and Martin have to know to do their jobs as a production company!
SusieSagitarius is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:39
mmDerdekea
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
Posts: 1,375
Biff and I watched S5E7 again, because her S4 disc wasn't working in our chat tonight.

We wondered a few nifty things:
1. LG is entirely ill-prepared to deal with a newborn. Aside from having her errant mom paw off the child to Angie the convicted felon, at the beginning she directs her babysitting mom to take JH to the "clappy time at the library" or to "Singalong Susie", activities that a five week old infant would have no connection to at all.

2. I think that the cat sanctuary woman may actually have money and is hiding that fact in her whining begging for funds. She does have a fairly decent sized home and is caring for a number of cats. We get the largest indication she is faking all the money stuff at the end when she begins crying she can't afford paying for the new window and Penhale backs down from requiring her to do so. As soon as he leaves, her crying immediately ceases, she pulls herself together, and she gives DM a slightly collaborative look which leaves him from HIS look suddenly suspicious.

3. LG is drawn again and again to DM in his role as Doctor Savior. She falls in love with him after the Peter Cronk episode. She agrees to marry him after the Holly episode. And, here in this episode, she once again attempts to reconnect with him, to spend the evening with him at Large Restaurant Tunisia night affair, after he saves her mom. I think seeing him as the strong, capable man taking care of others is probably one of the defining attractions LG has for DM. Of course, she is shockingly out of touch with reality to think he would spend the evening at the Large's, listening to loud music, mingling with others, and eating cheap food badly prepared. And he, of course, is too dense to realize she was suddenly trying to reconnect with him on a deeper level.

Like them all, great episode!
mmDerdekea is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 04:40
cc.cookie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,388

Now that Im up and running, I also need to say that I think Caroline Catz is very much underrated and for me just makes the show!! Can you imagine the Docs Mrs being anyone else???? Both of them play it to a tee!! thats what makes it so good eh!!!
I totally agree. I think they stuffed up her character in s5 but still love her.
cc.cookie is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 05:12
SusieSagitarius
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 1,127
I absolutely agree that the pregnancy announcement was not in the letter. That was actually the speculation on this forum during S4 filming.

But it is interesting to wonder if she knew at the time she called off the wedding.
Well, I suppose it is possible since the home pregnancy tests that I looked at can tell up to 5-6 days before a missed period. So it was 3 weeks to the wedding roughly soooo... maybe, but I really think not.
SusieSagitarius is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 06:03
Shop Girl
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,175
I think it's fun to wonder if Louisa knew she was pregnant at the end of series 3. I definitely think the producers knew she was. Great symmetry with the endings of series 3 & 4. Both had births in them.

On that note, and sorry to jump ahead of the re-watch, but I noticed some continuity from S4e8 to S5e1. Mr. Hubble - the man whose arm has gone all tingly in S5e1 can be seen with his arm in a sling in S4e8. He's in one of the crowd shots when Pauline is broadcasting the birth. I just noticed that a few weeks ago when that ep was on television here.
I checked IMDB and they only list him in 3 episodes, but I swear I see him all the time in the background. Perhaps besides the 3 credited episodes he has been used as an uncredited extra in others.
Shop Girl is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 13:07
NewPark
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,107
Well, I suppose it is possible since the home pregnancy tests that I looked at can tell up to 5-6 days before a missed period. So it was 3 weeks to the wedding roughly soooo... maybe, but I really think not.
If she was "late" at all, she maybe just put it down to nerves. But -- if she got pregnant midway through her cycle, then it took another week to schedule a wedding three weeks away -- well, she could have been as much as two weeks late, and some subtle/not so subtle changes would start happening. Being her first time, she might not recognize them.

One possibility -- she half knew and she half didn't know. The part that suspected the possibility, led her to lash out at her friends joking about the possibility of their having children, and to consider seriously what it might mean that she didn't think DM would even want to be a godfather.

But, on the other hand, would she have taken off for London and a new job if she knew she was pregnant? Hard to think that she would, if she knew that she would be "sitting alone in a bedsit."

so, another one of those delightful ambiguities. But I think that we're probably supposed to think that she didn't know.
NewPark is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 13:37
NewPark
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,107
Ok, it is back to doing research.
I've found agreements about how screenwriters do their jobs and work with producers in the US. That led me to figuring that the UK must have similar rules, guidelines, etc. and indeed there are.
I found this website for the writers guild: http://www.writersguild.org.uk/about...tes-agreements
I found a document there that specifies all manner of things particular to writers and TV production:
http://www.writersguild.org.uk/image...appendices.pdf

I then found the ITV Commissioning webpage http://www.itv.com/commissioning/
with a link for Producers' Guidelines at
http://www.itv.com/commissioning/producers-guidelines/
that has a long list of other documents relevant to productions of which
http://www.itv.com/documents/pdf/ITV...it%20Rules.pdf
explained the crediting guidelines.

After spending considerable time reading and scanning through these fascinating documents, I have a new real huge appreciation for what Philippa and Martin have to know to do their jobs as a production company!
They are really true professionals, aren't they.

I heard MC being interviewed once, and the interviewer asked him if, since they ran a family business, they spent a lot of time talking about it a home. Martin said, no, they tried not to and he had learned the hard way not, for example, to ask about the daily price of a Steadi-Cam in bed.
NewPark is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 15:47
NewPark
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,107
Biff and I watched S5E7 again, because her S4 disc wasn't working in our chat tonight.

We wondered a few nifty things:
1. LG is entirely ill-prepared to deal with a newborn. Aside from having her errant mom paw off the child to Angie the convicted felon, at the beginning she directs her babysitting mom to take JH to the "clappy time at the library" or to "Singalong Susie", activities that a five week old infant would have no connection to at all.

2. I think that the cat sanctuary woman may actually have money and is hiding that fact in her whining begging for funds. She does have a fairly decent sized home and is caring for a number of cats. We get the largest indication she is faking all the money stuff at the end when she begins crying she can't afford paying for the new window and Penhale backs down from requiring her to do so. As soon as he leaves, her crying immediately ceases, she pulls herself together, and she gives DM a slightly collaborative look which leaves him from HIS look suddenly suspicious.

3. LG is drawn again and again to DM in his role as Doctor Savior. She falls in love with him after the Peter Cronk episode. She agrees to marry him after the Holly episode. And, here in this episode, she once again attempts to reconnect with him, to spend the evening with him at Large Restaurant Tunisia night affair, after he saves her mom. I think seeing him as the strong, capable man taking care of others is probably one of the defining attractions LG has for DM. Of course, she is shockingly out of touch with reality to think he would spend the evening at the Large's, listening to loud music, mingling with others, and eating cheap food badly prepared. And he, of course, is too dense to realize she was suddenly trying to reconnect with him on a deeper level.

Like them all, great episode!
1. I wondered about "the clappy song". given that she was a primary school teacher, she must have had at least one course in child development, including infancy. Generally, I think she was just in denial about what having a baby entails, especially for a single mother. I well remember blithely assuring people while I was pregnant with our first child that it would make no difference to our lifestyle. Hah.

3. Yes, Doctor Saviour, and also at those moments, I think she sees the real goodness in him -- more than just a skilled life-saver, he forces himself to overcome his phobia because of his deep sense of a "duty of care."

One of my favorite moments from this episode is when he calmly and kindly explains to Louisa what is about to happen in the surgery, without an iota of patronizing or impatience. My sense is that, at that moment, she saw him in a different light and really began to let go of her anger at him.
NewPark is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 17:15
Shop Girl
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,175
Ok, it is back to doing research.
I've found agreements about how screenwriters do their jobs and work with producers in the US. That led me to figuring that the UK must have similar rules, guidelines, etc. and indeed there are.
I found this website for the writers guild: http://www.writersguild.org.uk/about...tes-agreements
I found a document there that specifies all manner of things particular to writers and TV production:
http://www.writersguild.org.uk/image...appendices.pdf

I then found the ITV Commissioning webpage http://www.itv.com/commissioning/
with a link for Producers' Guidelines at
http://www.itv.com/commissioning/producers-guidelines/
that has a long list of other documents relevant to productions of which
http://www.itv.com/documents/pdf/ITV...it%20Rules.pdf
explained the crediting guidelines.

After spending considerable time reading and scanning through these fascinating documents, I have a new real huge appreciation for what Philippa and Martin have to know to do their jobs as a production company!
Interesting stuff you found Susie! I found the info on the end credits answered a question I had. For S1 & S2, our favorite series had a light blue sky looking background to the credits. For S3, they changed to a darker blue with white lettering. Then starting with S4, we have black background with white lettering. I had wondered if it was supposed to be some sign when they changed to the black background, but now I see that it is a requirement by ITV. I think it is probably to make it easier to squash the credits to the edge of the screen while they promote another show in the main screen - in fact it does mention that is what could happen to the credits. They also specify that the credits can't be rolling - probably for the same reason. Who knew?

It also prompted me to look more closely at the credits. I had previously noticed a credit for a stand-in so I became curious and looked him up on IMDB. He is listed as a stand-in for both Doc Martin movies and all episodes for S1 & S2. I checked a little more and there don't seem to be any stand-in credits for anything after S2. I wonder why? Did they just decide that it wasn't necessary to pay someone to stand around just in case they needed him? I would think as the show got more popular that MC would have more demands on his time and more need for a stand-in.

Another interesting thing I saw in his credits (and he has only been in one other production besides the Doc Martin stuff), is that he is listed as a "stunt stand-in" for Aromatherapy. That made me wonder, so I went and looked at every scene with Martin in that episode and I cannot see anywhere where there needed a stunt double. The most dangerous thing he did was break Caroline's window with a rock, but I looked at that scene closely and the camera never broke from him walking toward the door, so they couldn't have inserted a double. The only other time was when he kicked at Gremlin and we only saw him from the knees down. Maybe they didn't want him to do that to Gremlin? And even looking for stand-ins, there were only a couple of shots in the whole episode where we didn't see his face - a couple of over the shoulder shots in a long conversation. Just didn't see any need for a stand-in. I'm wondering, since his name is listed on every episode for the two series if maybe he is credited as a stand in for the whole series whether or not they use him in every episode?

But as far as the stunt stand-in, this is an actor who regularly bangs his head on doorways, bumps down cellar steps, and rappels down a cliff. Mystery.
Shop Girl is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 17:37
Blue-Eyes
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 515
One of my favorite moments from this episode is when he calmly and kindly explains to Louisa what is about to happen in the surgery, without an iota of patronizing or impatience. My sense is that, at that moment, she saw him in a different light and really began to let go of her anger at him.
And when he reassures her that her mother is going to be fine when she pauses on getting into the ambulance ( looking for his reassurance )...

They are THAT close in those moments...
Blue-Eyes is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 18:56
dmbesotted
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 338
I checked IMDB and they only list him in 3 episodes, but I swear I see him all the time in the background. Perhaps besides the 3 credited episodes he has been used as an uncredited extra in others.
I think you are right. He is also 'Chippy the crabman' and he is in the waiting room when Edith comes in S4E1, she sits down next to him -

Recall the exchange between Pauline and Edith?

Pauline - Oh you're Chippy the crabman?
Edith - No, I am Dr Montgomery
Pauline - I'm Pauline the receptionist.

I thought he was also one of the fishermen who run Doc off the road in the 1st episode but there are credits for them and it is someone else. But I think you are right, he is often in the background.
dmbesotted is offline  
Old 05-02-2013, 19:17
Shop Girl
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,175
I thought he was also one of the fishermen who run Doc off the road in the 1st episode but there are credits for them and it is someone else. But I think you are right, he is often in the background.
I was just looking at his twitter feed. Apparently he has a big role in E1. A couple of our members have been tweeting with him
Shop Girl is offline  
 
Closed Thread



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:46.