[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by elgransenor1

In what sense am I ignorant?

He still chooses to go down that route. Plainly he must understand that it's destroying his life, but If he showed more willpower, he would be able to quit that addiction, however hard that process might be. But he chooses not to.

If his life isn't worth enough to him to quit, why should I care? most people struggle through life, with very little to show for it. Very little money, and most of them didn't turn to drink.

Why should I feel sorry for a wife-beating millionare, who was lucky enough to be given a gift in life for football, lucky enough to be good at something that he could make a very good living from it? He was given every advantage in life and threw it away. I feel sorry for those people who suffer through life on very little money, and don't turn to drink. millions of faceless people who don't get the publicity Gazza gets.

Other alcoholics like Tony Adams have managed to quit, why can't Gazza? probably because theres something inside him that's driven to self-destruction. But if he can't recognise that and take whatever measures to quit for good, I have very little sympathy.

What a nasty, bitter rant.

The man is an addict who, unlike Tony Adams, also has mental health issues - bi-polar, depression and perhaps Tourette's. i only hope that if you ever have mental problems that someone's there to help you. Why should you care? There but for the grace of god goes any of us......

*ignores*

[DiamondDoll]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

What a nasty, bitter rant.

The man is an addict who, unlike Tony Adams, also has mental health issues - bi-polar, depression and perhaps Tourette's. i only hope that if you ever have mental problems that someone's there to help you. Why should you care? There but for the grace of god goes any of us......

*ignores*

Just let it go Saltydog.
Ingnoring can be quite powerful.

If someone is that ignorant......you are wasting your time.

[yellowlabbie]

I feel sad for anyone in this condition, it is very sad for Gazza, he was a true great. I do hope he succeeds this time, it will almost certainly be his last chance.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by elgransenor1

In what sense am I ignorant?

I don't think you're being ignorant, just that you can't seem to grasp (1) the nature of addiction and (2) that you don't choose it. The very nature of addiction throws logic and objectivity out the window. It removes choice.

Gascoigne choose to drink, yes, but he didn't choose addiction. Everything you're logically seeing and expecting from him is everything addiction takes away from a person. His only driving force is the drug, despite knowing the damage it's doing to him. As in, his compulsion to drink is greater than his compulsion to stop.

If you saw that recent video of him, you'll see a desperate, broken man. If you still want to see him as choosing to be that man, so be it.

[Osusana]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

What a nasty, bitter rant.

The man is an addict who, unlike Tony Adams, also has mental health issues - bi-polar, depression and perhaps Tourette's. i only hope that if you ever have mental problems that someone's there to help you. Why should you care? There but for the grace of god goes any of us......

*ignores*

He does not have Bipolar and he most certainly does not have Tourettes (I'm a mental health worker with knowledge) Bipolar is chucked around these days for anyone who complains of mood swings and behaves badly.
What he is - and is is not his fault, is spectacularly thick. He has also been very badly advised and picked the wrong 'friends' in the past.

Alcoholism is an addiction - but there are successful non-drinking alcoholics. I have both professional and personal knowledge of this. I was married to an alcoholic and lived with him for 17 years - 12 sober (but alcohol determined our social life) and the last 5 years drinking. I tried everything and he paid lip service to wanting to stop - in the end he chose the liquid over me and everything; we divorced. He died 18 months later at 46 of liver disease.

I feel no guilt - an alcoholic is an arch manipulator, he pulled friends and strangers into his self pitying poor me world. Alcohol is a major depressant. When he was sober he was a lovely man - drinking he was almost evil.

Gazza will not stop drinking until he wants to - no amount of friends rallying around will change that

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by Osusana

Gazza will not stop drinking until he wants to - no amount of friends rallying around will change that

Sort of what Russell Brand said about Amy on Jonathan Ross the other night. If she didn't want help, no one was going to be able to help her.

[DiamondDoll]

Originally Posted by Osusana

He does not have Bipolar and he most certainly does not have Tourettes (I'm a mental health worker with knowledge) Bipolar is chucked around these days for anyone who complains of mood swings and behaves badly.
What he is - and is is not his fault, is spectacularly thick. He has also been very badly advised and picked the wrong 'friends' in the past.

Alcoholism is an addiction - but there are successful non-drinking alcoholics. I have both professional and personal knowledge of this. I was married to an alcoholic and lived with him for 17 years - 12 sober (but alcohol determined our social life) and the last 5 years drinking. I tried everything and he paid lip service to wanting to stop - in the end he chose the liquid over me and everything; we divorced. He died 18 months later at 46 of liver disease.

I feel no guilt - an alcoholic is an arch manipulator, he pulled friends and strangers into his self pitying poor me world. Alcohol is a major depressant. When he was sober he was a lovely man - drinking he was almost evil.

Gazza will not stop drinking until he wants to - no amount of friends rallying around will change that

Oh dear.

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by Osusana

He does not have Bipolar and he most certainly does not have Tourettes (I'm a mental health worker with knowledge) Bipolar is chucked around these days for anyone who complains of mood swings and behaves badly.
What he is - and is is not his fault, is spectacularly thick. He has also been very badly advised and picked the wrong 'friends' in the past.

Alcoholism is an addiction - but there are successful non-drinking alcoholics. I have both professional and personal knowledge of this. I was married to an alcoholic and lived with him for 17 years - 12 sober (but alcohol determined our social life) and the last 5 years drinking. I tried everything and he paid lip service to wanting to stop - in the end he chose the liquid over me and everything; we divorced. He died 18 months later at 46 of liver disease.

I feel no guilt - an alcoholic is an arch manipulator, he pulled friends and strangers into his self pitying poor me world. Alcohol is a major depressant. When he was sober he was a lovely man - drinking he was almost evil.

Gazza will not stop drinking until he wants to - no amount of friends rallying around will change that

You only have to Google ''paul gascoigne depression bi polar'' and thousands of hits come up. He has been diagnosed with bi-polar in a US clinic.

As part of the treatment he was sent to the United States, and he had three stays at a clinic in Cottonwood, Arizona: in June 2001, in 2003, and again 2004.[58] He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder during his first stay at the clinic.[57]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gascoigne

With respect, you may well have experience of alcoholism but you don't come across as the most sympathetic of people.

(Don't use this often but in the case of such unsympathetic postings it seems appropriate.)

*ignores again*

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by DiamondDoll

Oh dear.

Oh dear indeed.

[lexi22]

Originally Posted by Osusana

Gazza will not stop drinking until he wants to - no amount of friends rallying around will change that

Absolutely. The fact also that he's, as you mention, pretty immature and surrounds himself with people who still believe there's no harm in a little drink now and then doesn't bode well for him ever undergoing successful long-term rehab either.

[occy]

Guess they can only help as much as this and then it's down to Gazza to sort it out. If not he will be sorry dead.

[Blondie X]

Originally Posted by lexi22

Absolutely. The fact also that he's, as you mention, pretty immature and surrounds himself with people who still believe there's no harm in a little drink now and then doesn't bode well for him ever undergoing successful long-term rehab either.

Possibly the biggest block to his recovery, apart from himself, is the fact he is surrounded by enablers. His friends and family seem to think that taking him down the pub is no problems as long as he only had the one.

[teresagreen]

Originally Posted by QWERTYOP

I'm sick of reading his endless "i'm back on the wagon, honest this time" interviews (which I'll bet he was always well paid for). The man will go the same way George Best did. I've no doubt about it. Alcholism is not an illness. Cancer is an illness. Those who want to rid themselves of alcholism enough, do. You cannot willpower an illness away.

Well said QUERTYOP.

[teresagreen]

Originally Posted by Betty Britain

I honestly don't think anyone can help Gazza.. Whatever his demons are ..

I agree; alcoholics have to want to help themselves, otherwise, others can't do it for them, so sadly I think he will go the same way as Best.

[teresagreen]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

Addiction is an illness. It can be an addiction to sugar, booze or drugs, but it's extremely difficult to cure if you have an addictive personality.

Amy Winehouse is a case in point. After she'd been to rehab, she was seen buying and eating vast quantities of sweets, but drink killed her in the end, so it looks as if she needed some kind of addiction otherwise she couldn't get through her day or her life.

Gazza seems to have no support from his family, and if as others have said, they take him to the pub when he's with them, he doesn't need them either. He's had countless courses of rehab, but in the end nothing seems to benefit him.

Alcoholism is not an illness. It is an addiction which causes illness.

[Tipptop]

Originally Posted by teresagreen

Well said QUERTYOP.

But what about poor Gaza, he's a "Genius", national tresure, bla, bla bla.

I sure his agent is setting up interviews as we speak.

[Osusana]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

You only have to Google ''paul gascoigne depression bi polar'' and thousands of hits come up. He has been diagnosed with bi-polar in a US clinic.



With respect, you may well have experience of alcoholism but you don't come across as the most sympathetic of people.

(Don't use this often but in the case of such unsympathetic postings it seems appropriate.)

*ignores again*

I could be diagnosed as bipolar in a US clinic, anyone could - as I stated it is the celebrity illness de jour.
They cannot possibly just have moods and behave badly can they?

Originally Posted by DiamondDoll

Oh dear.

Patronising in the extreme - you cannot comment until you have walked in my shoes and all that.

[katmobile]

Originally Posted by Blondie X

One of the big problems Gazza has is that he doesn't appear to have any real back up from those who surround him.

He can have all the rehab in the world but, unless he has a support sytem when he comes out, he'll fall of the wagon time and time again.

I remember watching a programme about him before and, even after he announced he was an alcoholic, his family were still taking him down the pub. It's like they don't really understand or want to.

I get the impression he had a lot of hangers on who liked to drink too which didn't help him either people like Jimmy Five Bellies.

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by katmobile

I get the impression he had a lot of hangers on who liked to drink too which didn't help him either people like Jimmy Five Bellies.

I always wondered what happened to him, I didn't realise they fell out over Gazza's depression.
Sorry slightly off topic but I couldn't believe this was the same man, quite amazing transformation
http://metro.co.uk/2010/09/17/pictur...th-run-514473/

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by katmobile

I get the impression he had a lot of hangers on who liked to drink too which didn't help him either people like Jimmy Five Bellies.

It's a bit ironic that Chris Evans, one of the people who were enabling his drinking years ago, has been giving money to send him to the US for rehab.

[Pickle2012]

As I said in an earlier post, every single person in his life ( in my opinion) have just been there to see what they can get out of him. Not one person had his best interest at heart, it is sad

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

It's a bit ironic that Chris Evans, one of the people who were enabling his drinking years ago, has been giving money to send him to the US for rehab.

I think good on Chris Evans for getting together with the others to find the cash to pay for Gazzas rehab. Back in the day Chris, Jimmy and Gazza were all as bad as each other IMO but 2 of them managed to grow out of it/sort it out and get back on track but sadly 1 didn't
Hopefully he can make it this time and stick with it

[elgransenor1]

Originally Posted by Saltydog1955

What a nasty, bitter rant.

The man is an addict who, unlike Tony Adams, also has mental health issues - bi-polar, depression and perhaps Tourette's. i only hope that if you ever have mental problems that someone's there to help you. Why should you care? There but for the grace of god goes any of us......

*ignores*

I do have mental health problems actually. I suffer from depression and panic attacks, I have most of my life.

That doesn't mean that I have no sympathy for people who also suffer from them. Far from it, I have more understanding of those who like me suffer from this condition.

but unlike others who have posted on this thread, I do not consider it an illness, I consider it a condition. An illness is something you have no control over- an addiction is something different. it's a condition.

Gazza (and those who suffer from alcoholism) is in a prison right now. but thats a prison that he can escape from, however difficult it may seem to be. thats why I don't really feel sorry for him.

There are plenty of people in this world who are in a prison that for whatever reason they can't escape from. Gazza isn't in that state. he CAN escape, just that he chooses not to. therefore my sympathy is somewhat lacking.

however limited his intelligence, he should have enough self-awareness to know that if you suffer from mental health problems, then drinking is the worst possible thing that you can do, and it will only magnify those problems.

believe me i'm fully acquainted with alcoholics. I know this guy who's best friends with jeb bush. He was in the C.I.A. about thirty years ago. He was an alcoholic for 20 years. He finally realised he had a problem when he shot his gun into his ceiling so that his neighbour would quieten down.

The same day he had to have his stomach pumped after drinking vodka for 48 hours straight. And I also realise that alcoholics can only go cold turkey with certain drugs- otherwise theres a good chance they'll die.

So i'm fully versed with the problems of alcoholism. But am I sorry for Gazza, a millionare who's had every chance in life- if i'm honest, no i'm not. I don't see where that sympathy is going to get him, or any of the other faux sympathy on this thread- what the guy needs is a good kick up the backside.

[elgransenor1]

Originally Posted by Super_Furry

Wow!
Even for the internet, that is some of most nonsensical rambling I've ever seen.

I hope no one close to you ever has to deal with addicition, as they're definitely not going to be helped by having you in their life!

far from it. I think you'll find I have far more genuine sympathy than most of the people on here. If I knew gazza, i'd do everything in my power to help him. I just wouldn't pretend to feel sorry for him.

[flashgordon1952]

This guy has had more chances than most people and yet again he ignores doctors advice !
Well i have news . sorry mate but i have no sympathy with you and also probably most the the uk as well. you a complete "loser" and deserves everything yu get.
We seen it with geroge best and now him. If yu wish to kill yourself there are much easier ways to doit and cheaper forthe tax payer too