[FluxCapacitor]

Originally Posted by johartuk

Exactly. They thought it was going to be a documentary about an eccentric woman looking for a lost King and nothing was going to come of it. Hence the editing ("Let's show Philippa's more 'over emotional' moments and portray her as being a few sandwiches short of a picnic!") and style of the documentary. Unfortunately for them, the King was found, so the "let's all laugh at the mad woman who led us on a wild goose chase!" tone of the piece felt all wrong.

I wouldn't say "unfortunately for them"... yes, they will have made a conscious decision to portray Philippa in that way, but most of the editing will have been done AFTER the production team discovered it actually was the King's body, so they will have been fully aware of the outcome throughout the edit process.

I think it was a clever choice to be honest - it's a much better story if the eccentric woman who everyone laughed at actually turns out to be right against all the odds!

[Irma Bunt]

Originally Posted by MrGiles2

Thomas More refused to take of oath of supremacy which entailed King Henry VIII to proclaim himself Head of the Church of England.

He was beheaded on Tower Hill and his remains lie within the walls of the little chapel of St. Peter ad Vincula which stands just off Tower Green within the Tower. I visited that little chapel a few years ago and it was a moving experience. There are other remains of a number of men and at least five women who were executed for treason and still lie there to this day.

He was a tiresome man. And, unlike the benign figure presented to us in A Man For All Seasons, a nasty piece of work, too. When "heretics" were being tortured, he liked to get his hands dirty. He also put his family through Hell because of his principles. Watching A Man For All Seasons, I don't feel sympathy or admiration for him, just irritation. Just sign the bloody piece of paper and keep your mouth shut.

As for the Princes in the Tower, one can't help feeling that if Richard III is to be given a proper funeral, it's more than he afforded them...

[barbeler]

Originally Posted by starry

Funny looking at the start of this thread with people saying the program would be crap. It was actually great, by everyone involved. You don't need expensive license fee money to make a good documentary.

I would have thought that if anything justified the BBC licence fee, then this was it.

How crap were those archaeologists? They didn't find a single post hole.

[curmy]

As for the Princes in the Tower, one can't help feeling that if Richard III is to be given a proper funeral, it's more than he afforded them...

Let's hope one day the Specialists are able to take DNA samples from the urn supposedly containing the little Princes' ashes .

[Cadiva]

Originally Posted by Irma Bunt

As for the Princes in the Tower, one can't help feeling that if Richard III is to be given a proper funeral, it's more than he afforded them...

IF he had anything at all to do with their deaths, which is still not (and unlikely to ever) be proved conclusively one way or the other.

[anielled]

Originally Posted by barbeler

I would have thought that if anything justified the BBC licence fee, then this was it.

How crap were those archaeologists? They didn't find a single post hole.

Tony and the time team should of done it. They can find holes within holes and all in 3 days.

Oh and sorry havent read a lot of replies but i just sat jaw agape at the woman sticking Richards flag over his box of bones and then chucking it in the car. Couldnt make it up

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by barbeler

I would have thought that if anything justified the BBC licence fee, then this was it.

How crap were those archaeologists? They didn't find a single post hole.

This was Channel 4, not the BBC, so the licence fee doesn't come into it.

[gomezz]

Not quite true.

[Saltydog1955]

Originally Posted by gomezz

Not quite true.

How so?

Please explain.

[anneliese]

Should have let Phillipa have a few minutes alone with that head, would be nothing left

[Richard1960]

Originally Posted by anneliese

Should have let Phillipa have a few minutes alone with that head, would be nothing left

LOL.

[DuncanEmery]

really enjoyed the programme - didn't fall asleep while watching it which is unusual for me - I always used to sleep through meet the ancestors so they go something right!

[Cythna]

Originally Posted by lundavra

I don't think she was upset that it did not fit with the idea of him having now deformity, it was just the shock of it fitting with descriptions of him. They said after the programme that Scoliosis is not a disability, it is a condition. Usain Bolt has it and does not seem to do too bad on the track!
They only have the mtDNA result, they are still waiting for the Y-DNA which takes longer.

.

It was the build up of lots of bits of evidence which all fitted with it being him, I saw someone trying to claim it was wrong purely because the arrowhead turned out to be a Roman nail!

I doubt Usain Bolt's scoliosis is as pronounced as Richard's! I notice they said that he would have been five foot eight without the scoliosis, but would have lost inches because of it. I have severe scoliosis myself, and have known several people with it, and Richard's looked quite bad, although because it is a sideways twist it wouldn't stick out much. It would cause him breathing difficulties in later life, and his body in movement would almost certainly have a twist to it, with one shoulder higher than the other.

[Dai Clust]

I can't believe that they were allowed to dig up a local authority/social services car park like that. Where on earth did the poor hard working staff park during their work hours (i.e. 11-12 and 2-3 (2:30 on a Friday))?

[academia]

Originally Posted by divingbboy

She's a bit out there..............

Yes, she rather spoiled the programme by reducing me to hysterical laughter. The 'R' in the |Car park (philippa weeps); the disappointment at the curved spine (so not all Tudor propaganda was propaganda); the 'This is not the face of a tyrant'. And the tears and emoting at every possible opportunity.

[Dai Clust]

Richard III is truly blessed to have those Ricardians fight his cause. Intrigued by that , is there such a society as the Henrians whose raison d'etre is that Henry VIII was actually a peace loving loyal serial monogamist?

[swnymor1963]

Originally Posted by Dai Clust

I can't believe that they were allowed to dig up a local authority/social services car park like that. Where on earth did the poor hard working staff park during their work hours (i.e. 11-12 and 2-3 (2:30 on a Friday))?

A man who speaks the truth

[RyJa]

Originally Posted by Dai Clust

Richard III is truly blessed to have those Ricardians fight his cause. Intrigued by that , is there such a society as the Henrians whose raison d'etre is that Henry VIII was actually a peace loving loyal serial monogamist?

I think not

[striing]

Originally Posted by Dai Clust

Richard III is truly blessed to have those Ricardians fight his cause. Intrigued by that , is there such a society as the Henrians whose raison d'etre is that Henry VIII was actually a peace loving loyal serial monogamist?

Phillippa's starting one now that the find for Ricky is over.

[Libitina]

Originally Posted by academia

Yes, she rather spoiled the programme by reducing me to hysterical laughter. The 'R' in the |Car park (philippa weeps); the disappointment at the curved spine (so not all Tudor propaganda was propaganda); the 'This is not the face of a tyrant'. And the tears and emoting at every possible opportunity.

I was really looking forward to watching this, but she totally ruined it for me and I didn't finish the programme. Stupid woman!

[starry]

I liked her enthusiasm. Yeh she was a bit silly at times, but at least she cared about it and it was like we were dealing with real people rather than a schoolmaster. You even had an archaelogist inadvertently put a hole through the skull. I liked the realism.

[RyJa]

Originally Posted by Libitina

I was really looking forward to watching this, but she totally ruined it for me and I didn't finish the programme. Stupid woman!

Shame - it was a thoroughly good programme - she was just extremely odd

[swnymor1963]

Originally Posted by RyJa

Shame - it was a thoroughly good programme - she was just extremely odd

I also enjoyed the programme...although it could and should have been a lot better...A time team special would have been more appropriate...As for Phillipa...well without her initial research and fund raising, Richard III would undoubtedly have remained buried under a car park until Tesco shoved a load of £££ in the direction of Leicester City Council to secure planning permission for yet another Super or convenience store

[goldberry1]

The lady from the Ricardian society got the ball rolling anyway and voila! Richard was found.

I thought the whole programme was fascinating - Richard was rather handsome then even if there is a cloud over him about the princes in the Tower.

[Tiggywink]

Originally Posted by starry

I liked her enthusiasm. Yeh she was a bit silly at times, but at least she cared about it and it was like we were dealing with real people rather than a schoolmaster. You even had an archaelogist inadvertently put a hole through the skull. I liked the realism.

That is a really nice way to put it. I have joined in with the micky taking here but - I admit you are absolutely right. Richard, whatever historians may say, was human and whenever you see historical human remains exhumed from some place in other docus there is a sense of respect (in fact the professor who recreated his face was on a series where they built the faces of anonymous people and it was always a hushed moment of reverence when the "person" was revealed). Philippa really saw her beloved Richard in those bones, that was for a scientist difficult to empathise with.

It is interesting that many Ricardians are women. They fall in love with the idea that a good king should be so terribly maligned and have mud splattered all over his reputation when actually he was innocent. It's the mother instinct probably but the borderline mother / lover thing is phenomenal. They love him, want to protect him, want to resurrect his good name. Cry tears over him. It has a life of its own this thing.