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How Can Different Providers Perform Differently on Same Line?


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Old 26-01-2013, 17:44
imacken
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A basic question or two.
I am thinking of changing from BT to a cheaper alternative, e.g. Talktalk, and during a conversation with BT, they suggested that Talktalk would not be able to deliver the same speed and reliability as they - BT - can.
Now, this made me think. Is that reasonable? How can one ISP using the same equipment be worse than another?
My exchange is going to be converted to fibre on the next few months. Will the same situation occur then, i.e. could an alternative ISP to BT be much poorer in terms of speed and reliability?
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Old 26-01-2013, 21:54
iniltous
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If you are comparing like for like, then you should connect at the same speed regardless of provider, there may be some through put difference depending on contention, the number other consumers you 'share' your access with, Sky recently admitted they over sold capacity in certain areas that resulted in a poor experience for their customers, and there may be differences with traffic shaping and bandwidth limits between ISP's but a blanket statement from any ISP stating they offer faster speed than the competition is just nonsense, that's why non of them use it in advertising, where they have to back statements up with facts...reliability is different, but TT like most ISP have some customers who swear by them and others who think they are useless
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Old 26-01-2013, 22:03
LION8TIGER
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during a conversation with BT, they suggested that Talktalk would not be able to deliver the same speed and reliability as they - BT - can.
That sounds like salesman talk, I have heard similar. There is no reason why TT or any other LLU provider will not provide the same speed or reliability as BT ... in some cases they will provide a better speed.

Now, this made me think. Is that reasonable? How can one ISP using the same equipment be worse than another?
The LLU providers like TT, Sky etc have their own equipment in the exchange but use the existing BT network (phone lines)

My exchange is going to be converted to fibre on the next few months. Will the same situation occur then, i.e. could an alternative ISP to BT be much poorer in terms of speed and reliability?
The same criteria will apply with BT's fiber to the cabinet ... the reliability should be the same, the speed will be what you pay for.
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Old 28-01-2013, 07:18
neo_wales
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I suppose technically you should get the same results regardless of ISP (broadly speaking) but in the real world differences do occur. I moved from BT to talk talk and my speed and reliability improved straight away, same telephone line from the same cabinet. My nearest neighbour took the plunge and moved from BT (it may have been Plusnet) to talk talk and the same results for him.

There must be a technical reason but I don't know it, I'd be interested to know though if the tech/geek members can provide it.
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Old 28-01-2013, 07:39
noise747
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I moved from BT to ADSl24 cable and wireless network and got better speeds.

I suppose the difference could be how they set their line management system, profiling in BT case, Cable and wireless at the time had no line management, which was good because it allows you to change your own SNR, which could give you a higher sync speed. Try doing that with a provider that manages the line and it will muck things up


Some providers will turn it off or change the SNR, like sky.
the other thing that will affect speed is traffic management and how they use it. BT was awful for me as they seemed to use it all the time, even when not required.
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Old 28-01-2013, 10:08
Zenith
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This is what I don't understand about the "Broadband Choices" TV advert. The woman implies that their speed isn't fast enough to watch the program online, but the bloke says that they can now because he has changed provider.

Surely they would still get the same speed but at a different price, download limit etc. unless they changed from copper to fibre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQyQ96aq25c
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Old 28-01-2013, 11:50
nicklow
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I've moved from Tiscali to Talktalk and on to Plusnet. Each move resulted in a significant speed increase but technology changes may account for this. I'm now on ADSL2+. When I left Talktalk they told me I would not be able to transfer my 'phone number to Plusnet which was not true. Don't trust salesmen, they tell you rubbish to try and keep your business. Plusnet have proved very reliable.
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Old 28-01-2013, 12:06
tony13579
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I think you need to find someone in your street and try the BBC iPlayer speed test to get an accurate information.
I find the bbc test test matches the prediction that BT gives for my address.

Some providers promise the earth but do they actually deliver? Maybe you could find an unbiased survey of the predictions and reallity?
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Old 29-01-2013, 09:34
noise747
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I think you need to find someone in your street and try the BBC iPlayer speed test to get an accurate information.
I find the bbc test test matches the prediction that BT gives for my address.
But someone in your street could have a different speed to what someone else in that street may get even with the same ISP.

Take my next door neighbours, both sides, are with BT and they get about 1-2Megabits if they are lucky, I got with the same network, 2.5-3 sync speed. I even got 4 before BT mucked around with the exchange.

They also as yet have not gone for fibre, I know the one side who I talk to a lot don't have it as she chucked the info int he bin and said she is staying as she is. It is hardly used anyway.
the other side still got a homehub 2, so they certainly not got fibre, which is a bit of a surprise as they got two kids, one left school and at college.

Some providers promise the earth but do they actually deliver? Maybe you could find an unbiased survey of the predictions and reallity?
The problem is while one person may think ISP A is the bees knees, another person person may think it is the most useless rubbish on this earth and thhey make like ISP B, but the person with ISP A may not touch ISP B with a bargepole.

so getting a unbiased survey is impossible.
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Old 29-01-2013, 14:45
captainkremmen
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As much as you would think it shouldn't make a difference, it most certainly does. I moved from Talk Talk who could, despite months of argument, only deliver 1.1Mb as they said that was the maximum I could get from them or any other provider. So I moved to another company and my speed more than trebled from day 1.
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Old 29-01-2013, 19:27
alcockell
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Often depends on how much backhaul the ISP has bought from the exchange.
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Old 29-01-2013, 21:25
*MikeB*
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Often depends on how much backhaul the ISP has bought from the exchange.
This is crucial. Sky didn't rent enough backhaul in some exchanges and experienced congestion. Apparently they are now putting this right.

As for TalkTalk I think they are constantly on the verge of being congested, or are congested in most exchanges.
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Old 29-01-2013, 21:35
DANCE OF DEATH
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When I looking into ADSL a couple of years ago. Talk Talk could only give me 6.5 meg download. Sky 13.5 meg download and BT 3.6 meg download. So went with Sky.
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Old 30-01-2013, 09:54
noise747
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When I looking into ADSL a couple of years ago. Talk Talk could only give me 6.5 meg download. Sky 13.5 meg download and BT 3.6 meg download. So went with Sky.
That is one hell of a difference. who told you about those speeds?
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Old 30-01-2013, 16:56
*MikeB*
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That is one hell of a difference. who told you about those speeds?
A few years ago BT Wholesale might not have had ADSL2 equipment in the exchange, now they almost certainly will.
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Old 01-02-2013, 21:57
DANCE OF DEATH
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That is one hell of a difference. who told you about those speeds?
I did a check on Talk Talk's website and also on BT's website checker when I was checking into getting ADSL. I was already with O2 when I was getting 10 meg with them before they went crap and that was when I moved over to Sky.
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:53
mebiscuit
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I have Talk Talk fiber medium, was quoted an estimated speed of 19mb/s I don't get anywhere near that, average is 10 to 11 mb/s! Still wrangling with Talk Talk over this piss poor service!
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:25
Mike_1101
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Until last year I used BT internet, the speed was nearly always 20Mb downstream and 1.1 Mb upstream. I then changed to Plusnet (part of BT I know), the speed remained at 20Mb download but uploads seemed limited to 0.4Mb.

I queried this with Plusnet, they told me they could increase the upload speed but it would degrade the download speed. I told them to change it and now have the same performance I had from BT. The download speed has not been degraded at all.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:32
noise747
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A few years ago BT Wholesale might not have had ADSL2 equipment in the exchange, now they almost certainly will.
Maybe, but it is still a speed difference between Talk Talk and sky. Maybe Talk Talk did not have ADSL2+ either at that time.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:33
noise747
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I did a check on Talk Talk's website and also on BT's website checker when I was checking into getting ADSL. I was already with O2 when I was getting 10 meg with them before they went crap and that was when I moved over to Sky.
If it does what you want then fair enough.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:37
noise747
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I have Talk Talk fiber medium, was quoted an estimated speed of 19mb/s I don't get anywhere near that, average is 10 to 11 mb/s! Still wrangling with Talk Talk over this piss poor service!
A mate of mine was suppose to be getting 68Mb/s, ok I doubt he would get that speed, but at the moment the most he is getting is 10Mb/s, 5 most of the time. He is with Plusnet, but to tbe fair we think it is a BT problem as we checked using Bt speedtest, even changing the log in on the router and went direct to BT.

I have not chatted to him since Monday, so I don't know if it been sorted.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:28
neo_wales
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A mate of mine was suppose to be getting 68Mb/s, ok I doubt he would get that speed, but at the moment the most he is getting is 10Mb/s, 5 most of the time. He is with Plusnet, but to tbe fair we think it is a BT problem as we checked using Bt speedtest, even changing the log in on the router and went direct to BT.

I have not chatted to him since Monday, so I don't know if it been sorted.
If its under 15mb/s TT should not have installed the line, they guarantee a minimum of 15mb/s IIRC
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