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Old 10-02-2013, 17:30
mithy73
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The majority of all British people living abroad are not over retirement age.
One does not necessarily have to be over the statutory pension age in order to be retired. Also, that data's six years or so out of date.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:30
davor
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lets hypothetically say yo are correct and the figures are not massive (which I really doubt) but even low figures e.g. 40-50,000 (which even the left wing papers estimate) would be a disaster. There are simply no jobs, the benefits system cannot cope, the NHS cannot cope


If you know your job well, you will be able to get a job no matter what. If i'm confident enough about my job and I know I do it well, the number of immigrants wouldn't worry me. As far as I know, immigrants mostly do jobs Brits wont do. If they work and pay taxes, they are pay for the NHS too - right?
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:33
mithy73
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Whereas in the UK it was in the papers this week that millions of pounds are sent in child support benefit to people in Poland who do not even live here, yet another reason Romanians and Bulgarians will come
The answer to that is simple: change the child benefit rules. I don't think it makes sense to be paying child benefit for children whose main residence is out-of-state. That should be up to the child's home state. Same principle goes for the winter fuel allowance: you should be ordinarily resident in the state from which you're claiming the benefit.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:36
timetosaygoodby
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The answer to that is simple: change the child benefit rules. I don't think it makes sense to be paying child benefit for children whose main residence is out-of-state. Same principle goes for the winter fuel allowance: you should be ordinarily resident in the state from which you're claiming the benefit.
and what happens when the EU overrules the UK and declares it illegal or the roma just come here with their dozen kids are we just meant to support everyone
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:37
timetosaygoodby
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If you know your job well, you will be able to get a job no matter what. If i'm confident enough about my job and I know I do it well, the number of immigrants wouldn't worry me. As far as I know, immigrants mostly do jobs Brits wont do. If they work and pay taxes, they are pay for the NHS too - right?
except that the immigrants work illegally below minimum wage and even if they do jobs British people won't do we already have the Polish for that and 2.5 million unemployed so where are these jobs coming from
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:47
mithy73
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and what happens when the EU overrules the UK and declares it illegal
If the CJEU did that, it would have to have clear legal grounds to declare a change in the benefit system incompatible with our obligations under EU Treaties or associated EU legislation. First, someone would have to bring a case against the UK. The EU institutions can't do that, so it'd have to be another organisation or individual. If the CJEU tries to arbitrarily adjudicate rules into existence, then it runs the risk of being sidelined, ignored, or overruled itself by way of the introduction of fresh legislation at an EU level.

As I understand it, the only significant obligation incumbent upon Member States is that EU citizens who are working in another Member State are allowed access to the same social and welfare provisions as a domestic worker in that state - in other words, Member States cannot discriminate against EU workers in favour of their own. (Non-EU workers, on the other hand, are a totally different ball game.)

If our benefits system were such that in order to claim child benefit, the child must be resident in the same state as the claimant, then there is no discrimination between UK and other EU workers. The same rule applies to everyone. It even applies to UK ex-pats who would have to seek help instead from their state of residence, if such a facility is available to them.

or the roma just come here with their dozen kids are we just meant to support everyone
If people just come here and don't have work, then they're not classed as workers under EU rules and we don't have to help them.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:52
davor
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except that the immigrants work illegally below minimum wage and even if they do jobs British people won't do we already have the Polish for that and 2.5 million unemployed so where are these jobs coming from

That's for the British government to deal with. I agree that everyone who's breaking the law should be sanctioned and fined. I don't argue about that one at all.

I argue that this thread is very biased and people go "Immigrants don't want to learn our language and assimilate". I'm sure that vast majority of them do though.

If you really want to live in isolation, then vote for the UK to exit EU and impose tougher laws on immigration. Then you would see that the UK would have even worse economy then it has now.

It's good to be part of EU when you have to sell your goods, but when you have to apply common EU rules to your country, you ask for exemptions. That's not fair. I understand that people in UK are unhappy with the growing numbers of immigrants but then ask your government to opt out the EU. I don't think any government except maybe UKIP would opt out EU. Cameron has only been promising the referendum 'cause he wants Torries to get re-elected.
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:02
timetosaygoodby
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That's for the British government to deal with. I agree that everyone who's breaking the law should be sanctioned and fined. I don't argue about that one at all.

I argue that this thread is very biased and people go "Immigrants don't want to learn our language and assimilate". I'm sure that vast majority of them do though.

If you really want to live in isolation, then vote for the UK to exit EU and impose tougher laws on immigration. Then you would see that the UK would have even worse economy then it has now.

It's good to be part of EU when you have to sell your goods, but when you have to apply common EU rules to your country, you ask for exemptions. That's not fair. I understand that people in UK are unhappy with the growing numbers of immigrants but then ask your government to opt out the EU. I don't think any government except maybe UKIP would opt out EU. Cameron has only been promising the referendum 'cause he wants Torries to get re-elected.
even though you feel the vast majority of immigrants learn english this is not true

http://www.standard.co.uk/panewsfeed...e-8473365.html

-8% of people in the census do not have English as their main language
-546,000 people have Polish as their main language

'Of the four million residents of England and Wales who spoke a main language other than English, 726,000 could speak English but not well and 138,000 could not speak English at all.

its a disgrace 725,000 people can speak hardly any english
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:04
davor
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I agree to that.
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:10
mithy73
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even though you feel the vast majority of immigrants learn english this is not true

http://www.standard.co.uk/panewsfeed...e-8473365.html

-8% of people in the census do not have English as their main language
-546,000 people have Polish as their main language
Why at that bit? Even if they spoke fluent English, Polish would remain their main language.

'Of the four million residents of England and Wales who spoke a main language other than English, 726,000 could speak English but not well and 138,000 could not speak English at all.

its a disgrace 725,000 people can speak hardly any english
Hang on. "Can speak English but not well" does not necessarily entail "can speak hardly any English". The figure of 138,000 who cannot speak English at all is a potential cause for concern. Though in the case of both figures I'd want to see a demographic breakdown before jumping to any conclusions about them.
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:24
timetosaygoodby
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Why at that bit? Even if they spoke fluent English, Polish would remain their main language.



Hang on. "Can speak English but not well" does not necessarily entail "can speak hardly any English". The figure of 138,000 who cannot speak English at all is a potential cause for concern. Though in the case of both figures I'd want to see a demographic breakdown before jumping to any conclusions about them.
not speaking English well to me means they cannot speak even close to fluently and means they may be able to say an odd few works and would not be able to hold a conversation. Not well does imply even close to fluent which simply is not good enough
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:29
mithy73
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not speaking English well to me means they cannot speak even close to fluently and means they may be able to say an odd few works and would not be able to hold a conversation. Not well does imply even close to fluent which simply is not good enough
But you don't know any of that. You're just supposing.
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:35
ItJustMyOpinion
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Polish migrants have been an asset to the UK. They've set up businesses and paid all their taxes to the UK.

Granted there was already a strong Polish community of those who'd remained after helping the UK and her allies to defeat Hitler and they were able to offer some advice and support to newcomers, but the younger group worked hard when they arrived here, often taking work for which they were overqualified rather than claiming benefits.
You are talking about pre settlement guest workers technically speaking. That is different to post settlement migrants, with low paid jobs and huge families. As for tax's, if migrants are in low paid jobs they will not pay much, if any and it has been revealed that many send most of their money home to another country.

I agree their are good migrants, bad migrants and neutral migrants and the migrants should not all be classed as the same. In fact the good probably pay for the bad, which explained the Lords committee's report, that says each of us is better off to the price of a Mars bar each year thanks to immigration.

The answer of course is to just admit the good migrants therefore lowering the numbers and making us all richer. The British people have not made the connection between the EU single market and mass immigration. Even if we switch to the EEA from the EU, we still have the single market and the free movement of people. Perhaps that should change to the free movement of people providing they meet each individual country's skills requirements and quotas.
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:37
timetosaygoodby
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But you don't know any of that. You're just supposing.
saying they cannot speak English well is hardly confirmation they can speak the language with any degree of fluency, more then likely they can say give me benefits, money or freedom of movement and thats about it
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:47
mithy73
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saying they cannot speak English well is hardly confirmation they can speak the language with any degree of fluency,
It's not, however, confirmation that they can speak next to none either. It's quite possible to know enough of a language to hold a conversation - albeit slowly, perhaps - and make oneself understood, but someone with a basic or near-basic conversational grasp of a language who was being honest would not, I would think, tick the box claiming they could speak the language 'well' or 'very well'.

more then likely they can say give me benefits, money or freedom of movement and thats about it
Oh dear. You're letting your prejudices run away with you again. Again, how do you know? We have no demographic data on these individuals. You don't even know that they're EU citizens.
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Old 10-02-2013, 18:55
timetosaygoodby
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petition now over 19.500

more then 700 signatures today so obviously some people are concerned
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:17
mackara
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petition now over 19.500

more then 700 signatures today so obviously some people are concerned
Wow, just another 10,000,000 to go then before it is worth looking at
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:32
Landis
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Polish people do work and pay tax
Is there some way that you could differentiate betwen those who pay some tax, and the immigrants that you have described as "scum" in recent weeks?
I think that would be helpful.

How about "tolerable scum".
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:43
floridetei
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hello DS!
and hello timetosaygoodby! I have been reading this forum for a few months but I decided to make an account a few weeks ago with the urge to reply to some of your posts in many of your threads. I have no idea how I managed to restrain myself untill now!
i can't blame you or argue with you on the matter of free movement to UK becouse i don't live in UK, I don't know your struggles so it's not my place so say. But i have to tell you, the way you phrase your views is disappointing, at least.

no one has yet explained the benefits of hundreds of thousands of poor, uneducated Romanian and Bulgarians coming over


Romania and Bulgaria are much less educated, hard working and are much poorer then Poland.

your generalizations are really irritating now!

quick question: I'm Romanian, I live in Romania (don't worry i won't be comeing over; I have a good life here ) and i'm pretty sure I speak your language a hell of a lot better than you speak mine. If I am uneducated, what are you?
How many Roma engineers or doctors do you know?
In 2014 Uk's borders will be open for Romanians and Bulgarians, not Roma only! (3.2% of Romania's population)

wait until 2014 it will be
get off your high horse! every forest has its bad trees:
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2...brighton/19442 should I follow your example and conclude that Uk is populated by 63 mil. racists???

I have to say, a few years ago when emigrating came to mind, I never thought of benefits, I just wished for a job. These threads have been really informative for me. On that note: lately, i've been purchasing a few goods from Amazon Uk therefore paid VAT to your country; is there anyway I can benefit from that? If you can help me with this @ timetosaygoodby it will be verry much appreciated. Thank you! Thank you so much!

Have a good Sunday everyone!
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:43
David Tee
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not speaking English well to me means they cannot speak even close to fluently and means they may be able to say an odd few works and would not be able to hold a conversation. Not well does imply even close to fluent which simply is not good enough
I've never got this "not speaking English" lark. The overwhelming majority of English people abroad - tourists and residents - think it's perfectly reasonable to talk English wherever they are and, worse still, they fully expect to be understood. We are, genuinely, the last people on the planet who should be making an issue of this.

This entire thread, it seems to me, is just another excuse for the OP to post a link to the e-petition site. Is this the third, or fourth such thread? Either way, it's getting stale.
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:48
timetosaygoodby
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Wow, just another 10,000,000 to go then before it is worth looking at
actually at 10,000 its gets a government response and at 100,000 it goes to the cross party committee who can refer it on to Parliament
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:48
David Tee
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hello DS!
and hello timetosaygoodby! I have been reading this forum for a few months but I decided to make an account a few weeks ago with the urge to reply to some of your posts in many of your threads. I have no idea how I managed to restrain myself untill now!
i can't blame you or argue with you on the matter of free movement to UK becouse i don't live in UK, I don't know your struggles so it's not my place so say. But i have to tell you, the way you phrase your views is disappointing, at least.






your generalizations are really irritating now!

quick question: I'm Romanian, I live in Romania (don't worry i won't be comeing over; I have a good life here ) and i'm pretty sure I speak your language a hell of a lot better than you speak mine. If I am uneducated, what are you?

In 2014 Uk's borders will be open for Romanians and Bulgarians, not Roma only! (3.2% of Romania's population)


get off your high horse! every forest has its bad trees:
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2...brighton/19442 should I follow your example and conclude that Uk is populated by 63 mil. racists???

I have to say, a few years ago when emigrating came to mind, I never thought of benefits, I just wished for a job. These threads have been really informative for me. On that note: lately, i've been purchasing a few goods from Amazon Uk therefore paid VAT to your country; is there anyway I can benefit from that? If you can help me with this @ timetosaygoodby it will be verry much appreciated. Thank you! Thank you so much!

Have a good Sunday everyone!
Fabulous post.
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:49
KNIGTHOUT
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even though you feel the vast majority of immigrants learn english this is not true...

...Of the four million residents of England and Wales who spoke a main language other than English...138,000 could not speak English at all.
So 96.55% of those who spoke a main language other than English, can speak English as well.

Vast majority of 96.55% not vast enough for you.
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:52
Landis
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As for tax's, if migrants are in low paid jobs they will not pay much, if any and it has been revealed that many send most of their money home to another country.

.
Wow.
A woman (for it so often is a woman) sends money home on which she has paid income tax, to support her children and to pay for their education, and you see this as "a bad thing".
Truly incredible.
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:52
Antonia Smart
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hello DS!
and hello timetosaygoodby! I have been reading this forum for a few months but I decided to make an account a few weeks ago with the urge to reply to some of your posts in many of your threads. I have no idea how I managed to restrain myself untill now!
i can't blame you or argue with you on the matter of free movement to UK becouse i don't live in UK, I don't know your struggles so it's not my place so say. But i have to tell you, the way you phrase your views is disappointing, at least.






your generalizations are really irritating now!

quick question: I'm Romanian, I live in Romania (don't worry i won't be comeing over; I have a good life here ) and i'm pretty sure I speak your language a hell of a lot better than you speak mine. If I am uneducated, what are you?

In 2014 Uk's borders will be open for Romanians and Bulgarians, not Roma only! (3.2% of Romania's population)


get off your high horse! every forest has its bad trees:
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2...brighton/19442 should I follow your example and conclude that Uk is populated by 63 mil. racists???

I have to say, a few years ago when emigrating came to mind, I never thought of benefits, I just wished for a job. These threads have been really informative for me. On that note: lately, i've been purchasing a few goods from Amazon Uk therefore paid VAT to your country; is there anyway I can benefit from that? If you can help me with this @ timetosaygoodby it will be verry much appreciated. Thank you! Thank you so much!

Have a good Sunday everyone!
Great post, you have the patience of a saint, this moron really is not worth the time and effort. He is one of those people who are just too stupid to realise they are stupid.
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