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Old 10-02-2013, 21:27
slick1two
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Unless a development studio has truly bottomless pockets, they will develop using a combination of emulation tools to begin with, and then move to actual hardware for compatibility testing and multi-resolution support.

When selecting hardware to purchase, they will select devices to try and represent as much of the market as possible - for example popular screen resolution sizes, devices which sell well, and devices which represent the major manufacturers. Whilst the first Nexus phone was really a developer special, subsequent purchases of Nexus devices are more likely to be popular with devs simply because they're relatively cheap.

Single "bedroom" devs often might only have one or two devices and then have to rely on emulators which aren't updated as quickly as they'd like, and that's why the smaller developers often struggle to support brand new OS versions or newer screen resolutions.

I hope this is informative. And yes, this is speaking from direct experience.
Yes that makes sense, and That's what I said, you will use a combination of a virtual Platform and let's face it, most devs must know others with various types of Android phones, or have a few of their own. Or at the same time release test apps. I've seen them on the play store. So people can download and test them and offer feedback. It would be pretty stupid to test on one phone, even if it is a pure android phone without skin, because the majority of Android phones out there are not running stock Android. Apps do have compatibility issues. Read many times, user comments on google play, of app not working with a particular handset or version of Android etc etc.

You're obviously coding the apps on a computer, and then testing them out on different Android devices. Surely that is the case right?

As I said i'm not a developer but trying to use some kind of logic of the process of getting apps on to phones.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:31
slick1two
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LOL - Devs want sparkle like everyone else!

Aesthetics aside, how do you test high end graphics on a low end machine, how do you test quad core processing on a single core? Its may not be top of the range, but Android phones have always been available to buy - its an open system.
They may WANT but do not NEED. They need the power of course but development kits aren't made to shine in the looks departments. Do you think a Playstation dev kit is going to look anything like the finished product? Of course not!

The Nexus is a consumer phone that so happens to be a good phone to use for App development. Simple as that. It's not a piece of hardware that google offers up to devs to develop apps on.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:35
grumpyoldbat
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Yes that makes sense, and That's what I said, you will use a combination of a virtual Platform and let's face it, most devs must know others with various types of Android phones, or have a few of their own. Or at the same time release test apps. I've seen them on the play store. So people can download and test them and offer feedback. It would be pretty stupid to test on one phone, even if it is a pure android phone without skin, because the majority of Android phones out there are not running stock Android. Apps do have compatibility issues. Read many times, user comments on google play, of app not working with a particular handset or version of Android etc etc.

You're obviously coding the apps on a computer, and then testing them out on different Android devices. Surely that is the case right?

As I said i'm not a developer but trying to use some kind of logic of the process of getting apps on to phones.
A well organised dev will have a beta testing team set up. The great thing with Android is that you can offer beta testers a free copy of the game in return for their testing feedback, and if you assemble a good beta team over time, the ones who are good testers will help you over and over again. They also build some loyalty to the studio and the app, and can become great evangelists for the studio/app.

The main problem with testing Android is the number of people who pop up with a device that isn't running the standard OS. To be honest, there's really only so much that developers can do to support people with custom ROMs because the plethora of different device and ROM combinations makes it impossible to support everything.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:36
rosetech
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Unless a development studio has truly bottomless pockets, they will develop using a combination of emulation tools to begin with, and then move to actual hardware for compatibility testing and multi-resolution support.

When selecting hardware to purchase, they will select devices to try and represent as much of the market as possible - for example popular screen resolution sizes, devices which sell well, and devices which represent the major manufacturers. Whilst the first Nexus phone was really a developer special, subsequent purchases of Nexus devices are more likely to be popular with devs simply because they're relatively cheap.

Single "bedroom" devs often might only have one or two devices and then have to rely on emulators which aren't updated as quickly as they'd like, and that's why the smaller developers often struggle to support brand new OS versions or newer screen resolutions.

I hope this is informative. And yes, this is speaking from direct experience.
FYI - Studios use a Nexus 10 to provide access to all resolutions, although this is less of an issue with later versions of Android

Samsung owns the Android market at present.

Nexus is popular with devs because it is stock Android. (cheapness, sparklies or other variants of this them need not apply).

The Android emulator is always up to date with the latest version as it is released with the SDK (and often before the source is available).

From the studios I have collaborated with all development is done in the same manner that is on a Nexus device. With a beta test against a Samsung device for good luck (S2/S3). Then specialist hardware in priority order of latest market share figures.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:44
grumpyoldbat
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FYI - Studios use a Nexus 10 to provide access to all resolutions, although this is less of an issue with later versions of Android

Samsung owns the Android market at present.

Nexus is popular with devs because it is stock Android. (cheapness, sparklies or other variants of this them need not apply).

The Android emulator is always up to date with the latest version as it is released with the SDK (and often before the source is available).

From the studios I have collaborated with all development is done in the same manner that is on a Nexus device. With a beta test against a Samsung device for good luck (S2/S3). Then specialist hardware in priority order of latest market share figures.
OK, so that's your experience. It differs a bit from mine, but then the studios I worked for were around long before the Nexus, or indeed Android existed. Not all studios/developers are the same or equal. I've worked with a lot of standalone developers too, and often they do work with just 1 or 2 phones and have to do the rest with emulators.

Some of those devs will choose their dev device based simply on what their carrier and latest upgrade will offer them. One-man outfits, small studios, large studios will vary greatly in their development ethos and what they do, and its not always dictated by budget.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:46
rosetech
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They may WANT but do not NEED. They need the power of course but development kits aren't made to shine in the looks departments. Do you think a Playstation dev kit is going to look anything like the finished product? Of course not!

The Nexus is a consumer phone that so happens to be a good phone to use for App development. Simple as that. It's not a piece of hardware that google offers up to devs to develop apps on.
I though we were talking about mobiles ? Development kit for consoles is entirely different Although less so these days.

What does Google give the developers each year? What is the AOSP code based on? A shiny Nexus device. What will Google I/O users get this year - er actually they will probably get the Xphone

Do you think the Android team want to carry around crappy looking phones. Developers are people too you know. Even though I develop on a phone doesnt mean I dont carry it around with me and use it. Testing a mobile requires you to use it as a mobile. How embarrassing would it be to have some ugly behemoth as your day to day device

Do Apple/Microsoft/Blackberry have a separate ugly development phone too
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:46
slick1two
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FYI - Studios use a Nexus 10 to provide access to all resolutions, although this is less of an issue with later versions of Android

Samsung owns the Android market at present.

Nexus is popular with devs because it is stock Android. (cheapness, sparklies or other variants of this them need not apply).

The Android emulator is always up to date with the latest version as it is released with the SDK (and often before the source is available).

From the studios I have collaborated with all development is done in the same manner that is on a Nexus device. With a beta test against a Samsung device for good luck (S2/S3). Then specialist hardware in priority order of latest market share figures.
There you go, it's popular with devs, but isn't a Dev phone, as it's not sold or marketed as such.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:48
rosetech
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OK, so that's your experience. It differs a bit from mine, but then the studios I worked for were around long before the Nexus, or indeed Android existed. Not all studios/developers are the same or equal. I've worked with a lot of standalone developers too, and often they do work with just 1 or 2 phones and have to do the rest with emulators.

Some of those devs will choose their dev device based simply on what their carrier and latest upgrade will offer them. One-man outfits, small studios, large studios will vary greatly in their development ethos and what they do, and its not always dictated by budget.
Its my experience working in mobile app development Have you worked in mobile app development? Have you developed for the Android platform?

Its standard practice
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:49
rosetech
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There you go, it's popular with devs, but isn't a Dev phone, as it's not sold or marketed as such.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:52
slick1two
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Its my experience working in mobile app development Have you worked in mobile app development? Have you developed for the Android platform?

Its standard practice
Standard practice? I wouldn't have thought there was a standard practise. Aside from the fact that you are developing for the same platform, surely each dev team have their own ways of going about things?
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:58
whoever,hey
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Ok, i think there are a lot of mobile devs here, including myself.

To me it seems the term "dev phone" is getting interpreted in many different ways, which has caused a lot of the friction here.
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Old 10-02-2013, 21:58
slick1two
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So let me get this straight, Google/LG mass produce a phone, put the latest tech in, polish it up and sell it at a great price, just to target it to devs?? Tell me how that makes any sense? Why Since they aren't making much money off it, why would they restrict themselves further by pushing it as a developers device, which is obviously a tiny portion of the market.

You are not not thinking this through logically. Devs may love it, but it's very much a consumer device in every shape and form. There can't be no argument about that, as all the clues point to exactly that.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:01
grumpyoldbat
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Its my experience working in mobile app development Have you worked in mobile app development? Have you developed for the Android platform?

Its standard practice
Yes, mobile app development across multiple platforms over several years, including Android.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:02
grumpyoldbat
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Standard practice? I wouldn't have thought there was a standard practise. Aside from the fact that you are developing for the same platform, surely each dev team have their own ways of going about things?
This. There are many ways to skin a cat.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:03
Gormond
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Ok, i think there are a lot of mobile devs here, including myself.

To me it seems the term "dev phone" is getting interpreted in many different ways, which has caused a lot of the friction here.
Indeed, I am in no doubt that the Nexus 4 is popular with devs but like many others here I don't think that's the reason Google make it.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:19
rosetech
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Standard practice? I wouldn't have thought there was a standard practise. Aside from the fact that you are developing for the same platform, surely each dev team have their own ways of going about things?
Dude its not the wild west. Sure some game devs have different methods but they are exception rather than the rule. We all learned from the same place Google io material.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:28
Dai13371
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Indeed, I am in no doubt that the Nexus 4 is popular with devs but like many others here I don't think that's the reason Google make it.
Nexus type can be said to tech demonstraters. Never the most powerful or highest spec devices but showcasing the latest Android builds, demonstrating what Google is bringing to the mobile table.

Howver, I think there is something different about the Nexus 4. JB is not that different from ICS aesthetically speaking so I dont think the primary role is to show off 4.2. It is marketted as a highly desirable handset in a hugely competitive sector.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:31
slick1two
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Dude its not the wild west. Sure some game devs have different methods but they are exception rather than the rule. We all learned from the same place Google io material.
You are taking about where or how you acquired your knowledge and learn't your craft. What the other poster was talking about was application of your craft, how you organize yourself and set up your team etc. That's not going to be a standard setup I would have thought. The end result will be the same, so you'll have a finished app at the end of it, but I'm sure you're gonna do what works best for you.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:35
Stuart_h
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Standard practice? I wouldn't have thought there was a standard practise. Aside from the fact that you are developing for the same platform, surely each dev team have their own ways of going about things?
hahahaha


clutching at straws now matey
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:39
slick1two
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hahahaha


clutching at straws now matey
Am I? I was just giving an opinion. No clutching here.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:42
whoever,hey
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Do you think the Android team want to carry around crappy looking phones. Developers are people too you know. Even though I develop on a phone doesnt mean I dont carry it around with me and use it. Testing a mobile requires you to use it as a mobile. How embarrassing would it be to have some ugly behemoth as your day to day device
Why does being a mobile dev require you to carry it around with you?
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:47
whoever,hey
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Dude its not the wild west. Sure some game devs have different methods but they are exception rather than the rule. We all learned from the same place Google io material.
I was an iOS dev, now i am a mobile dev in general that performs due diligence and post diligence on companies mobile devs.

They dont even mention about carrying their dev mobiles around with them. AND its actually against a couple of ongoing NDAs in mobile gaming. So i call BS on your exception to rule.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:49
slick1two
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Why does being a mobile dev require you to carry it around with you?
Yep didn't make sense to me either. Something which you develop on, isn't usually your day to day bling bling phone. It doesn't need to be. It's a piece of hardware you can use in conjunction with your dev software.
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Old 10-02-2013, 22:50
alanwarwic
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And name one ugly behemoth.

I think the Sony range near the best looking but I don't consider any ugly.
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Old 10-02-2013, 23:03
slick1two
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http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget..../img1369-1.jpg

THAT is a Dev phone. It is the BB10 Dev Alpha A It's very basic. Has most of the phone features locked out. but has very good spec so does enough for developers to be able to use them during app creation. They were never sold to the public, only a BB dev could get one. This is a classic example of developer hardware.

The Nexus 4 is available in Google's play store which every Tom Dick and Harry can access and buy from. Nowhere is it aimed at Devs, but is sold to the mass consumer on a site on which you erm....consume content. See a pattern developing here? It;s quite a clear distinction, using the BB example and the Nexus 4 that one is available to Devs exclusively, the other is a mass produced consumer focused smart phone sold to Joe Public for a very reasonable price.

End of Argument
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