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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 15-02-2013, 16:40
andyrich666
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Which really worries me about people, firstly mobs who have nothing to do with a victim, would they really kill someone if they got their hands on them, and worse would they killsomeone who has not even stood trial yet ? And how do they think that would make them any better than the person they have in their legal living room decided is guilty and have attacked ?

Many things anger me , but I do get really pi**ed off with people with vigilante attitudes when they have no actual proof a person did something. I wish they could remember that as much as a complainant should be supported and belived that so should the accused , presumption of innocence just as they would want until such time as they are found guilty, and even then we have had our fair share of incorrect guilty verdicts in this country ( and probably many incorrect not guilty ones as well)
Yes they would, it is not unusual for the Police to issue a Osman letter against someone like this, it happened to me once, ruined my life for four years, still affected by it now, I did nothing wrong but I had to move away, so ive been there, however under different circumstances to Kevin here
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Old 15-02-2013, 16:54
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imagine being falsely accused,and its more common than you think,awful position to be in,and false allegations are on the increase
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Old 15-02-2013, 17:00
bookaddict
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Yes, from that wording it seems they have the power to overturn their own decison and to press charges, even though they initially thought they hadn't enough evidence.
New evidence must have come to light. I must admit, I wonder where all this is going to end.
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Old 15-02-2013, 17:02
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Which really worries me about people, firstly mobs who have nothing to do with a victim, would they really kill someone if they got their hands on them, and worse would they killsomeone who has not even stood trial yet ? And how do they think that would make them any better than the person they have in their legal living room decided is guilty and have attacked ?

Many things anger me , but I do get really pi**ed off with people with vigilante attitudes when they have no actual proof a person did something. I wish they could remember that as much as a complainant should be supported and belived that so should the accused , presumption of innocence just as they would want until such time as they are found guilty, and even then we have had our fair share of incorrect guilty verdicts in this country ( and probably many incorrect not guilty ones as well)
I am in 100% agreement with you. And sadly yes, I can believe that people would do that and kill or seriously injure someone. There was quite a famous case a few years back about a paediatrician who was attacked because the idiots who attacked him didn't get the difference between paediatrician and paedophile. It makes me sick. I hate the idea of vigilante justice.
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Old 15-02-2013, 17:06
Isambard Brunel
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I was wondering how the next celebrity after JS to be accused of raping underaged children was going to be treated by the media. Michael Le saVell bust be feeling very hot under the collar right now, not that it's an easy accusation at any other time.
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Old 15-02-2013, 17:08
evesapples131
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I am in 100% agreement with you. And sadly yes, I can believe that people would do that and kill or seriously injure someone. There was quite a famous case a few years back about a paediatrician who was attacked because the idiots who attacked him didn't get the difference between paediatrician and paedophile. It makes me sick. I hate the idea of vigilante justice.
It's terrifying isn't it,

Did anyone ever see a short documentary a couple of years ago called 'Being Maxine Carr' about innocent women all over England being falsely accused, by the public, of being Maxine Carr!
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Old 15-02-2013, 17:55
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A 57-year-old man questioned by police investigating historical sex abuse at a music school in Manchester has been bailed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-21470135
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Old 15-02-2013, 18:06
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Well said. I have such mixed feelings about this. I'd rather not even know about this case (or any of the others. come to that) until it's gone thought the courts and a verdict has been reached. I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to be accused of something like this and be innocent. Until and if he's found guilty, he's deserving, at the very least, in a civilised society, of the benefit of the doubt. The suggestion of mob justice is just abhorrent.
I too have mixed feelings. I feel very sad about this glaring news. Whether he is guilty or not guilty, I feel the same about both scenarios.
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Old 15-02-2013, 18:56
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New evidence must have come to light. I must admit, I wonder where all this is going to end.
it doesnt appear that it has , at the time the Chief CPS prosecutor for the CPS in the North West said

ďAs there is no realistic prospect of conviction it is only right the allegations are prevented from going any further.Ē

But now the principal legal adviser to the DPP has reviewed the file and decide there should be a prosecution , that there is for some reason sufficent evidence in the original file that her colleague did not deem sufficient and instructed the GMP to charge him

As I have said previously maybe there is , maybe it was overlooked by the orginal team, or maybe the goverment is so hot on the tail of the CPS due to the current climate and the CPS advisor has decided to prosecute and let a jury decide so they are not accused of assiting or covering up for celebs, time will tell.
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Old 15-02-2013, 19:04
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So nothing seems to have changed except that the CPS are more confident that a jury convict will him.

More likely now that we've had months of the media coverage about Jimmy Savile and other non-related child abuse cases.

Are the British public now ready for a show trial or something?
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Old 15-02-2013, 19:15
skp20040
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So nothing seems to have changed except that the CPS are more confident that a jury convict will him.

More likely now that we've had months of the media coverage about Jimmy Savile and other non-related child abuse cases.

Are the British public now ready for a show trial or something?
It worries me that sadly I think they are , whether the person is innocent or guilty I sometimes think is incidental to some peoples thirst for some form of perceived justice no matter who it is
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:03
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Well, a few sixty year old (ex)celebrities groping the odd groupie or two, over forty years ago, is hardly going to satisfy anyone.
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:24
whatever54
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It could be she sees enough to warrant a prosecution, or it could even be that the decsion to drop was compaliend about and i nthe current climate its ahs been said " sod it we will be accused of covering up or going lightly so lets charge him and ;let a jury decide" , you never know.

Something I would like to mention is something that happened last night and actually quite disturbed me as it is on the subject of accusations

I run a hotel company, last night one of the hotels was very busy and had a school group in from the Midlands area (probably aged between 13 and 15) , one of the receptionists was taken ill so I popped over to that one to be around to help if the other receptionist got too busy

The group checked in and were a bit noisy so we asked the teachers to have a word and make sure they didnít disturb other guests.

All was well, the teachers took the kids out for the evening and they returned about 10pm. The teachers said to us that we should not let the kids leave the hotel as they all had to go to bed, we said we would do our best but in all honesty if its busy and someone sneaks past (it's a large busy reception) we cannot take complete responsibility for the group on that level we can only try our best . Anyway half an hour later we saw a few of the group hanging around and it was so obvious they were going to try and leave so I called one of the teachers , he came and spoke to them and then I was surprised as he left and left them in the lobby.

A few minutes later a few more of the group appeared and were standing near the door, I walked round a different way and was near to them but they didnít actually see me, one of the group asked one of the lads "can we go" , the lad replied "course we can he wonít do anything", the one that asked said "what did you say to him" meaning the teacher and the lad replied " I told him if he tries to tell me what I can and canít do I will report that he touched me up, who will they believe me or him and I told him they will all think he is a paedophile, heís shi**ing himself"

Shortly after this lad did go outside despite us telling them they should not do so a couple of others did go with him but the rest went back to their rooms, we di call another teacher but no one came

I must say I was shocked, I was also shocked that teachers expected staff to monitor their group on that level whilst not doing so themselves and at the same time felt very sorry for the teacher who was on the receiving end of this and it made me think how vulnerable they actually are.
What an interesting and sad tale, BIB
From what I can recall from my school trips we were fairly well behaved and were all in bed before the teachers. They'd stay up having a little drink & be on hand to deal with any bad behaviour if it occurred. My friend and I got told off for being noisy (we were jumping on the bed) such rebels! Would never have crossed our minds to sneak out the hotel, let alone say 'oh I'll just make out the teachers a paedo' maybe we were boring.
Anyway back on topic I'm off to look at Sally from Corries ex's, I think there may be a pattern emerging
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:40
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Pope Benedict has to answer for his inaction on child abuse
The Pope did too little to deal with sex offenders in the priesthood. He must be held to account Ė in this life, not the next

Jonathan Freedland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-child-abuse


Wishful thinking from Freedland I suspect.
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:46
i4u
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New evidence must have come to light. I must admit, I wonder where all this is going to end.
There appears to have been no new evidence, the CPS merely reviewed the original evidence and decided this time to press charges.
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Old 15-02-2013, 20:50
DE53
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Well, a few sixty year old (ex)celebrities groping the odd groupie or two, over forty years ago, is hardly going to satisfy anyone.
Exactly, i would be more impressed if they were rooting out some of the mp's, doctors, police and lawyers who have "allegedly" been involved in some of the goings on we have read about in this thread
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:00
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I hate the idea of vigilante justice.
It's not just the vigilante justice that destroys the lives of those falsely accused. Apart from occasional assaults (can't believe I just typed that), my dad didn't really get much in the way of physical or even direct verbal abuse. What he did get, and what I think ultimately resulted in his suicide, was the constant looks, and suddenly hushed conversations. The parties that he "accidentally" didn't get an invite to. The sidling away. The person who crossed over the road so as not to walk too close to him. In the end, it just wore him down. No matter how flimsy and malicious the allegations, there is always that underlying suspicion that "there must have been something".
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:28
Romola_Des_Loup
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It's a bit strange that he was 'totally exonerated' of all charges relating to the rape of a 6-year-old child because there wasn't enough evidence to proceed further, and yet scarcely more than a year later, there are suddenly a whopping 19 charges against him - including one of the rape of a 6-year-old girl.
A 6 year old, particularly a traumatised 6 year old, can't easily be questioned by police and may not even be able to talk about the abuse. I know a 9 year old who was abused (not sexually) but will not/ can not talk about it. The abuser is insisting that another named person is guilty and without the child's evidence, would probably be able to make a jury believe there was a reasonable doubt about her guilt. Any trial against the abuser would fail at the moment.

It could be that the 6 year old in the case in question may have now been able to give evidence whereas she could have been incapable before now. Equally, foresnsic evidence can sometimes take a year to process conclusively. I am not, of course suggesting that Michael LeVell is guilty, just that there can be many reasons why a trial that was inviable at one point could hold a reasonable likelihood of a conviction a year later. .
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:40
i4u
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A 6 year old, particularly a traumatised 6 year old, can't easily be questioned by police and may not even be able to talk about the abuse.
You may have misunderstood?

The charge relates to one person over a number of years, who it has been reported is now in their late teens.

Greater Manchester Police stated....

"The charges, which were authorised by the CPS following a review of evidence, relate to offences against a child between 2001 and 2010."
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:43
lexi22
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A 6 year old, particularly a traumatised 6 year old, can't easily be questioned by police and may not even be able to talk about the abuse. I know a 9 year old who was abused (not sexually) but will not/ can not talk about it. The abuser is insisting that another named person is guilty and without the child's evidence, would probably be able to make a jury believe there was a reasonable doubt about her guilt. Any trial against the abuser would fail at the moment.

It could be that the 6 year old in the case in question may have now been able to give evidence whereas she could have been incapable before now. Equally, foresnsic evidence can sometimes take a year to process conclusively. I am not, of course suggesting that Michael LeVell is guilty, just that there can be many reasons why a trial that was inviable at one point could hold a reasonable likelihood of a conviction a year later. .
But she wasn't 6 years old when she made the accusation.

Isn't this current charge historic, alleged to have happened approx 12 years ago (2001/2)? The accusation itself was first made in 2011 if I recall correctly, when she would have been at least 16?
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:48
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How many more girls were abused by music school predators?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...teachers-.html
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:55
Jo March
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Pope Benedict has to answer for his inaction on child abuse
The Pope did too little to deal with sex offenders in the priesthood. He must be held to account Ė in this life, not the next

Jonathan Freedland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-child-abuse


Wishful thinking from Freedland I suspect.
I think you're right and it appals me...reading what he has let go is truly sickening.
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:58
Romola_Des_Loup
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But she wasn't 6 years old when she made the accusation.

Isn't this current charge historic, alleged to have happened approx 12 years ago (2001/2)? The accusation itself was first made in 2011 if I recall correctly, when she would have been at least 16?
I was going from the original investigation. but if the charges do all relate to the same person, the points about vulnerability while being questioned still apply to some extent. Even if she was 16/17 when the charges were first brought, she may still not have been thought to be able to stand up to cross examination or may have needed counselling or treatment in order to be in a postion to testify. Forensics could still have been a relevant barrier in the initial investigation and could have been returned by now. I was closely involved in an investigation which was initially dropped because the forensics were not ready. the trial finally went ahead, with conclusive forensic evidence a year later (about 15 months after the actual offence).
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Old 16-02-2013, 00:13
lexi22
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Pope Benedict has to answer for his inaction on child abuse
The Pope did too little to deal with sex offenders in the priesthood. He must be held to account Ė in this life, not the next

Jonathan Freedland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-child-abuse

Wishful thinking from Freedland I suspect.
Very wishful thinking, but a thoroughly good albeit disturbing read nevertheless, both the article and the comments.
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Old 16-02-2013, 00:13
i4u
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I was going from the original investigation....
This looks like a decision based on the original file of evidence...

Alison Levitt, QC, principal legal adviser to the Director of Public Prosecutions, reviewed a file of evidence in relation to allegations of sexual offences and looked again at a decision previously made not to prosecute.

Ms Levitt said: "I have very carefully reviewed the evidence in this case and I have concluded that there is sufficient evidence and it is in the public interest to charge Michael Robert Turner with a number of sexual offences.
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