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Old 15-02-2013, 18:34
Mulett
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I just watched Survival, the last story of the classic series.

Oh.

I can see why it was cancelled.
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Old 15-02-2013, 19:05
bp2
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There are worse stories than survival, they didn't cancel Doctor Who because of Survival. I think classic Doctor Who was in decline since the late 70s.
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:11
Muttley76
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I like Survival, tbh. In fact I like most of the last series of the classic era, which I think was the best for several years, in spite of the fact they were swimming against the side, in terms of the shows continuation.
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Old 16-02-2013, 00:30
AdelaideGirl
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I like Survival too. Would love to see the cheeta people again, they would look fantastic with redesign of the costume.
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Old 16-02-2013, 01:07
DavetheScot
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I just watched Survival, the last story of the classic series.

Oh.

I can see why it was cancelled.
Like most of the final series, Survival was very good. Anthony Ainley gave his best performance ever as the Master, world-weary and with a quiet menace rather than the OTT performances we had too often seen from him. Sophie Aldred was also very good as Ace, as she was throughout this series.

Frankly, the fatal damage had come earlier. I've said it before, but I think the Kandyman in The Happiness Patrol was the real nail in the coffin.
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Old 16-02-2013, 01:17
Muttley76
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Like most of the final series, Survival was very good. Anthony Ainley gave his best performance ever as the Master, world-weary and with a quiet menace rather than the OTT performances we had too often seen from him. Sophie Aldred was also very good as Ace, as she was throughout this series.

Frankly, the fatal damage had come earlier. I've said it before, but I think the Kandyman in The Happiness Patrol was the real nail in the coffin.
Agreed, I love Ainley in this story, a fabulous performance!
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Old 16-02-2013, 01:44
alphonsus
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Like most of the final series, Survival was very good. Anthony Ainley gave his best performance ever as the Master, world-weary and with a quiet menace rather than the OTT performances we had too often seen from him. Sophie Aldred was also very good as Ace, as she was throughout this series.

Frankly, the fatal damage had come earlier. I've said it before, but I think the Kandyman in The Happiness Patrol was the real nail in the coffin.
Also agreed - this was the way Ainley should have played the Master all along.
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Old 16-02-2013, 02:00
davrosdodebird
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Unfortunately he wasn't allowed to play the Master any way he wanted -- he was alwyas being told by directors etc to ham it up, until Survival when they gave him a chance to play it as he liked.
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Old 16-02-2013, 02:15
DavetheScot
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Unfortunately he wasn't allowed to play the Master any way he wanted -- he was alwyas being told by directors etc to ham it up, until Survival when they gave him a chance to play it as he liked.
Yes, I have heard stories that he was constrained by poor direction.
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Old 16-02-2013, 03:03
johnnysaucepn
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Unfortunately, Survival is another example of a fairly decent premise let down by a meandering story that doesn't really tackle the themes it presents.

Apart from Ainsley, of course. And as well as his performance, I always like the Master better when he's in full view but we're still wondering what plans are ticking away in his head (this, the Five Doctors, etc.).
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Old 16-02-2013, 03:20
AdelaideGirl
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Certainly the idea of a planet being destroyed by the inhabitants fighting each other was under explored.

Would also love to see more convincing kitlings.
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Old 16-02-2013, 10:03
hartnellchrono
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But if you look at survival its almost a template for modern day doctor who, contemporary (back then) modern day setting, the companions home town, there friends involved in the story? Sound like many a 9/10/11 ep with rose/martha/donna/amy
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Old 16-02-2013, 12:12
Mulett
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I don't mind the story, but it just looks and sounds so cheap.

I don't know who was responsible for the sound recording, but it was terrible. And the acting was pretty bad in places too.

It felt like it was something a group of Doctor Who fans had made, rather than a professional BBC production team.
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Old 16-02-2013, 13:40
Listentome
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I don't mind the story, but it just looks and sounds so cheap.

I don't know who was responsible for the sound recording, but it was terrible. And the acting was pretty bad in places too.

It felt like it was something a group of Doctor Who fans had made, rather than a professional BBC production team.
Yes, my one complaint about a lot of the McCoy era is that it does look and feel like fan made stories shot on a camcorder. I have always felt Delta and the Bannerman is the prime example of this. However, on a whole I do enjoy the McCoy era, certainly his last season. I wouldn't say Survival is a favourite of mine, but with a better budget and more episodes to explore the themes it brings up I do believe it could have been a true classic.
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Old 19-02-2013, 19:16
Jon Ross
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I don't mind the story, but it just looks and sounds so cheap.

I don't know who was responsible for the sound recording, but it was terrible. And the acting was pretty bad in places too.

It felt like it was something a group of Doctor Who fans had made, rather than a professional BBC production team.
It looks and sounds so cheap because that's what it was. It was shot entirely on video, and unlike today, video couldn't be made to look like film afterwards.

The guy who directed it now works on Emmerdale.
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Old 19-02-2013, 19:19
Jon Ross
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I wouldn't say Survival is a favourite of mine, but with a better budget and more episodes to explore the themes it brings up I do believe it could have been a true classic.
More episodes? At three 23 minute episodes it still worked out longer than most New Who stories.
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Old 19-02-2013, 19:30
Glyn W
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I just watched Survival, the last story of the classic series.
But not the last one made.
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Old 19-02-2013, 19:59
SpringheelJack
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NuWho owes quite a lot to Survival, and I'd love to see Rona Munro write another episode.
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Old 19-02-2013, 20:56
Jon Ross
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NuWho owes quite a lot to Survival, and I'd love to see Rona Munro write another episode.
I think there's been a bit of an unwritten rule that no Classic Series writers are used. Clean slate and all that.
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Old 20-02-2013, 12:16
Listentome
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More episodes? At three 23 minute episodes it still worked out longer than most New Who stories.
I'm not comparing it to the new series, that is a different beast in terms of writing and production. But for a classic series story, it like many other McCoy stories only got 3 episodes instead of the usual 4 or 6.
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Old 20-02-2013, 12:57
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I have recently watched this - I like the cats, but don't like Hale and Pace.
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Old 20-02-2013, 13:12
capt. tancredi
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Very controversial OP, in my opinion! I think this is a strong contender for McCoy's best story - and maybe even one of the best of the 80s. The story was a cracker and I definitely agree with SpringheelJack that Rona Munro's script was great - so many elements of it are precursors to the modern series.

Obviously production values weren't amazing, but for its time Survival looked great. The scenes on the alien planet are pretty successful, given budget constraints. I remember watching this as a young kid when it was first shown and being blown away by it (by the whole final series, in fact). It was such a pity the show was cancelled just as it was starting to find its feet again!
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Old 22-02-2013, 21:20
Jon Ross
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I'm not comparing it to the new series, that is a different beast in terms of writing and production. But for a classic series story, it like many other McCoy stories only got 3 episodes instead of the usual 4 or 6.
I'm surprised you're suggesting it wasn't long enough, that's all. The usual accusation people make against Classic Who is that the stories were too long and padded out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you say could be interpreted as suggesting Survival is better written than the average 45min episode of New Who, with more themes to explore which required at least four 25min episodes?
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Old 22-02-2013, 21:34
Jon Ross
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Obviously production values weren't amazing, but for its time Survival looked great. The scenes on the alien planet are pretty successful, given budget constraints.
I think people today have forgotten how cheap-looking most TV still looked back then. There were a few esteemed series the BBC spent money on (Bergerac etc.) and a lot of other stuff that just looked cheap. There was also still that big divide between what was made on film and what was made on video. It was another world.
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Old 23-02-2013, 09:24
Listentome
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I'm surprised you're suggesting it wasn't long enough, that's all. The usual accusation people make against Classic Who is that the stories were too long and padded out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you say could be interpreted as suggesting Survival is better written than the average 45min episode of New Who, with more themes to explore which required at least four 25min episodes?
LOL. I really didn't put that much thought into my comment. I think, you're over thinking what I said. Besides, I didn't make any comparison to the new series, you did. Not sure why you're talking about it. I'm not judging Survival against any other story, old or new Who. I talking about it as a self contained story that I feel could have been served better with another episode.

I think some of the classic series 6 or in Pertwee years 7 parters tended to have a bit of padding, but I've not seen this complaint made about 4 parters.

Certainly some of the cast and crew of the McCoy stories felt that some stories were short changed by only having 3 parts (Ghost Light for example) and personally I feel Survival could have done with another part. For one thing to explore the cheetah people a bit more.
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