[Brain Donor]

Originally Posted by fallfallfall

not that i want to die but are there any sites that have pics of the manuscript?

There are a few on the facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/UtopiaChannel4?ref=ts&fref=ts

[Brain Donor]

Originally Posted by NightFox_Dancer: Unrelated note but does anyone else really like the theme tune to this show?

Originally Posted by Calvin Harris

Check back and also check out the few threads there are to see the theme and incidental music is a big hit with the viewers.

All the soundtrack uploads so far are on a playlist here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MoPZ...TUocPSmMoRXnJg

[catsitter]

I don't understand what they said about how the "vaccine" would reduce the world's population - did they say it would eventually plateau at 500 million? If 5 - 10% of the population remain fertile then surely those people are likely to have many more children each than the average person does now? Very likely laws would be changed to allow people to buy and sell children and the few fertile people would make a living from it and the population wouldn't be reduced by that much. Then their children wouldn't be affected by the "vaccine" anyway, so there would be no effect on future generations and population growth would soon get back to normal.

I also don't get why they wanted to test whether they could make something that would be passed on genetically if it was in preparation for Janus - the people affected by Janus will be infertile, so they won't have any children to pass it on to?

Can someone explain what I'm not getting, please?

[Rollergirl1]

Hi everyone, i've been reading this thread for a bit and have registered just so i can comment. There is a fairly active thread about Utopia over on Mumsnet too but not to this degree, although we did pick up on the whole Peter/Jessica Rabbit thing.

First thing I would like to say, is did anyone notice in the last episode that when it was meant to go to a commercial break, in that it had the break bumper screen up, that it didn't and just carried on? I did notice it and thought at the time that it was odd but then forgot. My husband who is in Advertising watched tonight and did a total about turn! Were there actually meant to be ads or did they just throw that yellow Utopia screen up just for the fun of it? It happened at least twice.

Anyway, i love all the theories. Who is Mr Rabbit? I personally think it's Donaldson. I'm going for the "Kaiser Soze" element, that a web of fantasy/deceit has been created about Mr Rabbit and he is actually right there in front of your eyes. I would bet that he is also possibly Carvel too. Someone said on this thread a few pages back that Donaldson reminded him of the mad hatter, running around. But it isn't the mad hatter that runs around, it's Rabbit.

[Rollergirl1]

catsitter: That is a very valid point. There has to be an explanation for that, otherwise it ruins the entire premise. There has to be an explanation. I also don't understand how they can pinpoint only 1 in 20 to not be affected.

[Calvin Harris]

Originally Posted by catsitter

II also don't get why they wanted to test whether they could make something that would be passed on genetically if it was in preparation for Janus - the people affected by Janus will be infertile, so they won't have any children to pass it on to?

Can someone explain what I'm not getting, please?

My understanding is that when the protein (from the vaccine) and the amino acid (from the food) come together they make a change in the DNA of the host rendering them infertile, Not ALL the people will take both the vaccine and ingest the food. As a consequence some will not have the DNA change and will remain fertile and continue to reproduce. Most, however, will be rendered infertile as a consequence of the prevelence of the amino acid in the foodstuff and the clamour for the vaccine in an epidemic - not unreasonable.

Assuming the sterilisation gene to be dominant (Deels being the forerunner to check its efficacy) would mean even fewer successful procreations through statistics alone. With fertile couples being a significant minority the chances of a fertile/fertile union is quite low and would take a long time to recover. The infertile gene will dominate the fertile gene resulting in an unsuccessful pregnancy.

I think Donaldson's argument about a geriatric armageddon is very worthy and runs counter to Letts' Utopia. Some fantastic throw-aways with "Energy saving lightbulbs" and "might be some noises" which would, of course, mask the recovery of the gun from a cistern. The seat-belt scene was brilliant as was "we talk to the man at the counter".

This show has so many levels it is just a delight to watch and immerse yourself in. I have no fears about a second series. I just love the newness of it all. It's pure invention and power to those who allow our artists to do this instead of the derivative claptrap Cowell et al would have us feed on forever and a day.

[catsitter]

Originally Posted by Calvin Harris

Assuming the sterilisation gene to be dominant (Deels being the forerunner to check its efficacy) would mean even fewer successful procreations through statistics alone. With fertile couples being a significant minority the chances of a fertile/fertile union is quite low and would take a long time to recover. The infertile gene will dominate the fertile gene resulting in an unsuccessful pregnancy.

But surely people would quickly find a way to beat the statistics! At the moment infertile couples don't (for the most part) just accept infertility - they try all kinds of things - as shown in this very series. I can imagine the few fertile men would find they could charge as much as they liked to act as sperm donors, and the few fertile women would be able to charge as much as they liked to be "surrogate mothers" to provide babies for the infertile couples.

And surely many governments finding their countries' population dropping alarmingly would make sure the fertile people got together in couples to reproduce whether willingly or unwillingly?

[fruitloop27]

Originally Posted by JonDoe

Ian's brother?

Remember Ian said his brother was very driven and had always told Ian he was wasting his genius.

Nah, remember Milner said his identity has been kept secret for over 30 years & to take out an entire office block, Mr Rabbit had to be extremely agile. So I'd imagine he was in his 20s when he did that, so he must be in his 50s/60s now. Lol, I'm thinking too much

Just watched eps 4&5 back-to-back & it was totally gripping. The bit where Arby asked Jessica if she's got her seatbelt on & the camera followed him from inside the car then around it before he shot the two hitmen was immense, as was the bit where he ordered their food.

Dugdale is a shit but it's self-preservation. he really thinks he can outwit the Network. Tuesday night can't come quick enough!

[Calvin Harris]

Originally Posted by catsitter

But surely people would quickly find a way to beat the statistics!

The bankers tried that and just look what happened. People WILL try and many will fail. They still continue to be part of the actual statistics that will be a sudden and sustained population decline until it eventually bottoms out. The world will, indeed, seem empty.

Originally Posted by catsitter

At the moment infertile couples don't (for the most part) just accept infertility - they try all kinds of things - as shown in this very series.

Indeed and, in spite of their efforts, the success rate is not great - as shown in this very series. In fact, it has proved so inefective that Jen as resorted to blackmail and extortion in ordeer to get her baby.

Originally Posted by catsitter

I can imagine the few fertile men would find they could charge as much as they liked to act as sperm donors, and the few fertile women would be able to charge as much as they liked to be "surrogate mothers" to provide babies for the infertile couples.

And surely many governments finding their countries' population dropping alarmingly would make sure the fertile people got together in couples to reproduce whether willingly or unwillingly?

Indeed, much of this would be likely to go on but it requires money, an infrastructure, and a degree of cooperation. Other things will be occupying governments including: rapidly decreasing tax revenues; an ageing population in a top heavy society; other diseases springing up and a population wary of vaccines - Donaldson, himself, put it quite succinctly. It will be a "social and economic armageddon".

One of the many things I love about this show is it gets people talking and thinking about the very real problems it exposes. Your points are no less valid than mine or anyone elses.

Utopia conjures up a fascinating scenario that plays out in a surreal world that is gorgeous to look at and is generously peppered with dialogue that is a delight to hear. All this tied up in a quirky yet atmospheric music score - why is this show not the massive hit it deserves to be!

[Gatehouse]

'Cos it's so different, Calvin-a lot of people were put off by the violence and hard-to-follow plot-lines. Whereas it fits me like a glove (not that I'm violent!)


@Rollergirl1, it was me that called Donaldson the Mad Hatter, generally due to his speech and mannerisms. But agreed, there are enough clues there that he could be Mr Rabbit. The biggest one for me is the "playing everyone else off against each other". But in terms of "laid bare" it is clearly meant to look like Assistant now that Letts has been eliminated. I still think Carvel is the best wildcard choice-who after all might be Donaldson too! Whatever you think of the other aspects of the show, it's very hard to argue that "Who is Mr Rabbit?" hasn't been one humdinger of a riddle!


I also wonder how many people would have thought by the end of Ep1 that by Ep5 we'd be rooting for Arby all the way? I'm going to claim I was the first to sympathise (See? I'm not violent, I'm a big softee too!) but that wasn't until Ep2/3.

[Gatehouse]

Originally Posted by fruitloop27

Nah, remember Milner said his identity has been kept secret for over 30 years & to take out an entire office block, Mr Rabbit had to be extremely agile. So I'd imagine he was in his 20s when he did that, so he must be in his 50s/60s now. Lol, I'm thinking too much

Just watched eps 4&5 back-to-back & it was totally gripping. The bit where Arby asked Jessica if she's got her seatbelt on & the camera followed him from inside the car then around it before he shot the two hitmen was immense, as was the bit where he ordered their food.

Dugdale is a shit but it's self-preservation. he really thinks he can outwit the Network. Tuesday night can't come quick enough!

Highlighted bit is my moment of the series, loved it. In fact Arby from that point on until Jessica left him was the best thing in it-fantastic performance, so unlikely and so hard to capture...and yet done with so much swagger (and stagger!). It was like a twisted Bond or warped super-hero with a baring of a tortured soul as the dénouement.


Think you're probably right about Dugdale too, in all regards. There's a touch of the film Local Hero about Dugdale, methinks..even the poster!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Hero


And of course, Local Hero featured a young Peter Capaldi-to whom Paul Higgins was the gloriously foul-mouthed protégé Jamie in The Thick Of It

[kendoguk]

He still murdered children and the girls mum :/

[RobInnes]

I would love to watch this, but I can't handle gore. It sounds epic though.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Channel 4‏ @C4Insider
Got a question for #Utopia writer Dennis Kelly? He'll be taking over @dramaon4 tomorrow at 9pm for #AskUtopia. What do you want to know?

[Gatehouse]

Originally Posted by Sad_BB_Addict

Channel 4‏ @C4Insider
Got a question for #Utopia writer Dennis Kelly? He'll be taking over @dramaon4 tomorrow at 9pm for #AskUtopia. What do you want to know?

That's a bit late for "Who is Mr Rabbit", innit?


First preview clip is up, probably another tomorrow: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/u...-ep6-mr-rabbit


Not too much given away there. Nice feisty scene between the ladies. And as ever, awww, poor Alice.. is she being set up to be Jessica V2.0 in the second series?

[Gatehouse]

Originally Posted by kendoguk

He still murdered children and the girls mum :/

Ah, but that was the programmed Arby, he was bad (in a good way). "Clean" Arby is a kick-ass force for good (albeit sometimes in a bad way).

[Calvin Harris]

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

Ah, but that was the programmed Arby, he was bad (in a good way). "Clean" Arby is a kick-ass force for good (albeit sometimes in a bad way).

I disagree Arby is Arby. He does what needs to be done to get his mission accomplished. That will be tieing to a tree, breaking arms and fingers and grabbing something ofal. It is bullets to the head to get compliance, set up a patsy or just to waste the opposition.

I think Jessica might be in trouble. Arby is a killer - it's all he knows. Twice she's disappointed Arby - he's a fan for Chrissake! The first time he was so bemused at her performance he asked "Where is Jessica Hyde" and walked off. The second time she said she's rip the life from him but left him alive. I think his fandom is waning.

Look out Jess! And I love Arby as the most developed anti-hero I've seen in a long time.

[Aviller]

Originally Posted by Brain Donor

All the soundtrack uploads so far are on a playlist here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MoPZ...TUocPSmMoRXnJg

Anyone found an extended version of the end credits song?

[Gatehouse]

Originally Posted by Calvin Harris

I disagree Arby is Arby. He does what needs to be done to get his mission accomplished. That will be tieing to a tree, breaking arms and fingers and grabbing something ofal. It is bullets to the head to get compliance, set up a patsy or just to waste the opposition.

I think Jessica might be in trouble. Arby is a killer - it's all he knows. Twice she's disappointed Arby - he's a fan for Chrissake! The first time he was so bemused at her performance he asked "Where is Jessica Hyde" and walked off. The second time she said she's rip the life from him but left him alive. I think his fandom is waning.



Look out Jess! And I love Arby as the most developed anti-hero I've seen in a long time.

To be fair, I was kinda kidding around! But from the viewers perspective we are rooting for him whereas we were terrified of him-and he has as much of a back-story of abuse as anyone in the series, so he has my sympathy. His behaviour at the end of his last scene was as noble as any we've seen aside from perhaps by Milner.


But you are missing a major point-he isn't on anybody's mission any more. That's what that whole "not at the end of a gun" thing was about. To face up to what he is and break away takes an incredible amount of strength-that's a lot of conditioning to peel back. And there's no way Jessica means him any harm, or he her. They're way past that. She clearly gave him the empathetic look when she was demanding the manuscript in the cell-it was a "don't make me do this-but I will if I must" look as she held the gun up. And she left him with a look of pity-she realised what a terrible tragic mess he is, and there's nothing that can undo what he's done and what he's been. All thanks to the brutal experimentation of his own father.

The "where is Jessica Hyde" wander-off moment at Alice's house wasn't him walking off bemused-she wasn't letting him down, he was letting her go as Assistant says ("he had her-and he let her go")! He'd started turning by then.

He's my favourite character in every way. Donaldson probably comes second

[Gatehouse]

Sure enough, one more teaser clip: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/u...er-the-numbers


Kinda removes any notion of those being "normal police" that captured Grant! I have an unsettling feeling that Assistant isn't Mr Rabbit...

[VicsMum]

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

Sure enough, one more teaser clip: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/u...er-the-numbers


Kinda removes any notion of those being "normal police" that captured Grant! I have an unsettling feeling that Assistant isn't Mr Rabbit...

I'm struggling with myself to not watch any trailers.

Is your mind going into overdrive by now Gatehouse? lol

[SilvioDante]

Working tonight, PVR set to record, damn, won't see it til tomorrow night. Will need to steer clear of this thread. Tension Palpable

[Calvin Harris]

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

His behaviour at the end of his last scene was as noble as any we've seen aside from perhaps by Milner.

I still don't trust Milner. Might not be what's intended but there's much about Milner that just doesn't sit right with me.

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

But you are missing a major point-

No I'm not

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

-he isn't on anybody's mission any more.

Everything Arby does is a mission. The latest was his own but, as he said to Jessica "Of course. That's why I'm here". Not because anyone had sent him. This was HIS mission for himself.

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

And there's no way Jessica means him any harm, or he her. They're way past that

Are we watching the same show? Jess was uncharacteristically trembling as she held the gun up to him. There's anger, for sure, but I think she showed fear, too. Arby shows no fear at all. And I agree with you, his "journey" has been immense and totally credible down to the writing and the fantastic portrayal from Neil Maskell.

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

She clearly gave him the empathetic look when she was demanding the manuscript in the cell-it was a "don't make me do this-but I will if I must" look as she held the gun up. And she left him with a look of pity-she realised what a terrible tragic mess he is,

And we interpret this scene quite differently. Which helps to make this show as great as it is and this discussion thread the hotbed of ideas it is.

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

The "where is Jessica Hyde" wander-off moment at Alice's house wasn't him walking off bemused-she wasn't letting him down, he was letting her go

Again - interpretation differences. I hear his intonation quite differently as those that preceeded. It was like a "Where is the girl I've admired as an uber killer all this time?" sort of delivery rather than an "I can't see you" thang! IMHO

Originally Posted by Gatehouse

He's (Arby) my favourite character in every way. Donaldson probably comes second

Can't disagree with you there!

These two are fascinating, deep and well rounded characters. Both beautifully played, as well. I would put Wilson Wilson (so good they named him twice) and Dugdale in there, too. All very different but expertly played. Of course, the former two are arguably unlikeable so makes it more astonishing that we like them so much!

Discloser - I'm not a mass murderer, either

[Calvin Harris]

Oh, and to all: I loved the Donaldson "Each time I see you, you get sexier - Waaaahhhh!" moment. But the whole scene from car discussion (between Arby and Jess) to reaching Arby's room has to be the best of the series and one of the best televisual moments of all time.

Of course, some will disagree and say it's egg-cam!

[Gatehouse]

Originally Posted by Calvin Harris

I still don't trust Milner. Might not be what's intended but there's much about Milner that just doesn't sit right with me.



No I'm not



Everything Arby does is a mission. The latest was his own but, as he said to Jessica "Of course. That's why I'm here". Not because anyone had sent him. This was HIS mission for himself.



Are we watching the same show? Jess was uncharacteristically trembling as she held the gun up to him. There's anger, for sure, but I think she showed fear, too. Arby shows no fear at all. And I agree with you, his "journey" has been immense and totally credible down to the writing and the fantastic portrayal from Neil Maskell.



And we interpret this scene quite differently. Which helps to make this show as great as it is and this discussion thread the hotbed of ideas it is.



Again - interpretation differences. I hear his intonation quite differently as those that preceeded. It was like a "Where is the girl I've admired as an uber killer all this time?" sort of delivery rather than an "I can't see you" thang! IMHO



Can't disagree with you there!

These two are fascinating, deep and well rounded characters. Both beautifully played, as well. I would put Wilson Wilson (so good they named him twice) and Dugdale in there, too. All very different but expertly played. Of course, the former two are arguably unlikeable so makes it more astonishing that we like them so much!

Discloser - I'm not a mass murderer, either

We'll just have to agree to disagree, then-I think we've read Jessica and Arby almost entirely differently! Wilson is also brilliantly played though, I'll agree with that.