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Corries Catherine criticised for donating to 'wrong' charity


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Old 28-02-2013, 11:50
Vodka_Drinka
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Well if the money was from her salary then that would be different, but she never even had this 10k in the first place, & obviously it's very public, so I think it was a bad decision to choose that charity in this instance.
There is no such thing as a bad decision when giving to charity. It's personal and its no one else's business.

Do you tar everyone with the same brush just because they have a few dodgy relatives?
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Old 28-02-2013, 11:58
The Prumeister
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Say somebody stole my late grandmother's wedding ring, now in monetary value it's probably worth about 10, but it has sentimental value to me.



Upsetting - but not as devastating as a death.

So essentially you have no empathy for the other innocent victims of crime - the families of the perpetrators - especially children and babies.

As for insurance - it's not expensive. If you can afford a TV you can afford to insure it.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:16
spaniel-lover
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So, are you saying that not only should the criminal be punished by the courts, but their families should be left destitute as well?

I thought you said you had empathy...
Their families would not be destitute - we have a welfare state, the criminals & their families were probably on benefits prior to incarceration (someone in a well paid job is a lot less likely to take the risk), in fact most men in prison who are fathers were probably absent fathers anyway, even if they were involved in their kids' lives, the mums were probably coping mostly alone anyway; we don't live in Ronnie Barker's Porridge times any more you know....
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:17
spaniel-lover
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Upsetting - but not as devastating as a death.

So essentially you have no empathy for the other innocent victims of crime - the families of the perpetrators - especially children and babies.

As for insurance - it's not expensive. If you can afford a TV you can afford to insure it.
Rubbish, my TV is 10 years old.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:22
lexi22
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Try putting yourself in the position of somebody who's just been a victim of a crime, say your house has been burgled, you're round at a friend/relative's house watching TV (because the burglars stole you TV) & you see this programme & this woman giving money to this charity - how would you feel?
Why don't you go read the link (earlier in the thread) to Out There, the org Catherine supported and try and educate yourself about the work it does?

They're there to try and minimise the trauma and offer advice and practical & emotional support to families who find themselves through no fault of their own caught up in the criminal justice system. For anyone unfamiliar with the reality of prison, it's got to be a minefield for those experiencing it for the first time, and that's on top of having to come to terms with eg. having a murderer in the family, sent down for life. It's the family who has to deal with the mop-up, the shock, the hostility, the loss of normal family life, the loss of income, the loss of future, and it's orgs like Out There who help with that reality.

How anyone in a civilised world can have a problem with that is just baffling.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:26
grantus_max
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Their families would not be destitute - we have a welfare state, the criminals & their families were probably on benefits prior to incarceration (someone in a well paid job is a lot less likely to take the risk), in fact most men in prison who are fathers were probably absent fathers anyway, even if they were involved in their kids' lives, the mums were probably coping mostly alone anyway; we don't live in Ronnie Barker's Porridge times any more you know....
Lots of assumptions and generalisations there from someone who's already admitted to not even knowing anyone who's been burgled, never mind the families of convicted criminals and their circumstances.

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Old 28-02-2013, 12:29
grantus_max
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Rubbish, my TV is 10 years old.
It speaks volumes that you get the hump about an assumption of how old your TV is, but have nothing to say about "the families of the perpetrators - especially children and babies."

Does it not fit your apparently blinkered view of the world to have to think about them?
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:34
spaniel-lover
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Lots of assumptions and generalisations there from someone who's already admitted to not even knowing anyone who's been burgled, never mind the families of convicted criminals and their circumstances.

Actually I said that I myself personally have not been burgled.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:38
grantus_max
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Actually I said that I myself personally have not been burgled.
Indeed you did - apologies for that.

Now perhaps you could explain how having empathy for the families that get caught up in the turmoil when someone goes to prison equates to a lack of empathy for someone who gets burgled.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:39
spaniel-lover
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It speaks volumes that you get the hump about an assumption of how old your TV is, but have nothing to say about "the families of the perpetrators - especially children and babies."

Does it not fit your apparently blinkered view of the world to have to think about them?
My 'hump' is the assumption made by obviously fairly well-off people saying that insurance doesn't cost much; well to them it might not be much, but I can assure you that I would struggle to find spare money to pay insurance, & why the hell should I be out of pocket just to protect myself from selfish greedy people who may want to break in to my home & violate me? I don't smoke or use chip pans so run a low risk of fire, & I'm in a first floor flat - so a flood would have to be a bloody bad one to affect me.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:41
grantus_max
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My 'hump' is the assumption made by obviously fairly well-off people saying that insurance doesn't cost much; well to them it might not be much, but I can assure you that I would struggle to find spare money to pay insurance, & why the hell should I be out of pocket just to protect myself from selfish greedy people who may want to break in to my home & violate me? I don't smoke or use chip pans so run a low risk of fire, & I'm in a first floor flat - so a flood would have to be a bloody bad one to affect me.
Ah right - so it's ok for you to make generalisations about families of convicted criminals, but as soon as someone makes an assumption about the value of your TV set, all bets are off.

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Old 28-02-2013, 12:41
spaniel-lover
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Indeed you did - apologies for that.

Now perhaps you could explain how having empathy for the families that get caught up in the turmoil when someone goes to prison equates to a lack of empathy for someone who gets burgled.
Actually I do feel sorry for decent people who's son or daughter murders someone, I should imagine they have an unbearable sense of guilt; I don't think that they need any charity donation though, & it doesn't alter the fact that it was a naive decision by the actress.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:43
grantus_max
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Actually I do feel sorry for decent people who's son or daughter murders someone, I should imagine they have an unbearable sense of guilt; I don't think that they need any charity donation though, & it doesn't alter the fact that it was a naive decision by the actress.
There you go again with your generalisations.

I think you're the naive one here, if you think the world fits nicely into your black and white preconceptions.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:44
spaniel-lover
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Ah right - so it's ok for you to make generalisations about families of convicted criminals, but as soon as someone makes an assumption about the value of your TV set, all bets are off.

So you disagree that criminals are more likely to be unemployed or have a low-paid job than a well paid job?
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:45
spaniel-lover
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There you go again with your generalisations.

I think you're the naive one here, if you think the world fits nicely into your black and white preconceptions.
So you don't think they experience guilt?
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:48
grantus_max
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So you disagree that criminals are more likely to be unemployed or have a low-paid job than a well paid job?
I disagree with the attempt to generalise about *all* families of convicted criminals.

All sorts of people do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and that there can be fallout that affects people through no fault of their own.

This appears to be a concept that's beyond your comprehension.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:48
spaniel-lover
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I am more able than most to comment on the kinds of people who are in prison, having spent 6 weeks in Holloway prison in 2001; I am not a mother & would almost certainly have been spared a custodial sentence had I been.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:49
lexi22
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Actually I do feel sorry for decent people who's son or daughter murders someone, I should imagine they have an unbearable sense of guilt; I don't think that they need any charity donation though, & it doesn't alter the fact that it was a naive decision by the actress.
Are you just being deliberately dense? Or do you genuinely not understand how charities work?

For clarity, donations are what enable the service to continue, not to provide for the families of prisoners.

.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:50
spaniel-lover
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I disagree with the attempt to generalise about *all* families of convicted criminals.

All sorts of people do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and that there can be fallout that affects people through no fault of their own.

This appears to be a concept that's beyond your comprehension.
I never ever use the word all, I use most a lot, but never all.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:50
grantus_max
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So you don't think they experience guilt?
What does that have to do with offering support to people who need it?
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:52
grantus_max
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I never ever use the word all, I use most a lot, but never all.
We're getting somewhere now. So you're happy to acknowledge that there may be some people, somewhere, with a family member in prison who may be deserving of your empathy, yes?
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:52
spaniel-lover
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Are you just being deliberately dense? Or do you genuinely not understand how charities work?

For clarity, donations are what enable the service to continue, not to provide for the families of prisoners.

.
Are you just being deliberately rude, or are you not able to convey your point without using insults?
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:54
grantus_max
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I am more able than most to comment on the kinds of people who are in prison, having spent 6 weeks in Holloway prison in 2001; I am not a mother & would almost certainly have been spared a custodial sentence had I been.
You're fast becoming the queen of the non sequitur.

This whole discussion is about the families who get left behind, not the convicted criminals.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:57
spaniel-lover
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We're getting somewhere now. So you're happy to acknowledge that there may be some people, somewhere, with a family member in prison who may be deserving of your empathy, yes?
I already said that I feel empathy/sympathy with parents who's offspring have committed a heinous crime, as it was them that brought that person in to the world, & guilt would be a big factor there I would think.
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Old 28-02-2013, 12:59
spaniel-lover
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You're fast becoming the queen of the non sequitur.

This whole discussion is about the families who get left behind, not the convicted criminals.
I was able to become familiar with their family circumstances during that period.
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