[srhDS]

Originally Posted by minkski

Really looking forward to the new series

Not long now- not sure if I'll record the whole thing and watch in one go (as I did with the first series) or watch as it is broadcast (dilemma!)

you'll miss the ongoing discussion if you do that

[srhDS]

Originally Posted by mindset

You make Stannis seem such a boring, one dimensional, goody two shoes. I much prefer the ruthless (and murderous) badass as seen on tv, but that's just my opinion.

I agree with PerpetualAscent, Stannis is about Duty and Justice. But that doesn't make him any less ruthless.
The man who smuggled in food to Stannis when he was beseiged during Robert's rebellion was made a knight for his service but Stannis also chopped off his fingers for being a smuggler. "The good does not wash out the bad" he says.He saw Renly as a traitor and the punishment for that is death, so death is what Renly got.

[augusta92]

deleted..

[mindset]

Originally Posted by srhDS

I agree with PerpetualAscent, Stannis is about Duty and Justice. But that doesn't make him any less ruthless.
The man who smuggled in food to Stannis when he was beseiged during Robert's rebellion was made a knight for his service but Stannis also chopped off his fingers for being a smuggler. "The good does not wash out the bad" he says. He saw Renly as a traitor and the punishment for that is death, so death is what Renly got.

I haven't read any of the books, so I'm not in any position to dispute any of this. Anyway, I was merely arguing that the nature of the act of killing Renly (as shown on tv), necessary though his death was, wasn't brave or honourable in my opinion. Using magic to send a smoke assassin is no braver in my eyes for instance, than those who control U.S. drones in Somalia or Pakistan. And since when did stabbing someone in the back become honourable? Ned Stark was executed for "treason" too, but at least he was given an honourable death. Since Stannis wasn't in any position to execute his brother with honour, he chose expedience.

My point being that many of the characters who are not as "brave" and "honourable" and "justice seeking" as Stannis, kill for expedience. The nature of Renly's death showed me that Stannis is just as capable of "playing dirty" as any of the rest of them. I like the Stannis character and I don't disapprove of his actions. But when he gets filthy I will not say he's clean.

All in my opinion ofcourse.....LOL

[srhDS]

Originally Posted by mindset

I haven't read any of the books, so I'm not in any position to dispute any of this. Anyway, I was merely arguing that the nature of the act of killing Renly (as shown on tv), necessary though his death was, wasn't brave or honourable in my opinion. Using magic to send a smoke assassin is no braver in my eyes for instance, than those who control U.S. drones in Somalia or Pakistan. And since when did stabbing someone in the back become honourable? Ned Stark was executed for "treason" too, but at least he was given an honourable death. Since Stannis wasn't in any position to execute his brother with honour, he chose expedience.

My point being that many of the characters who are not as "brave" and "honourable" and "justice seeking" as Stannis, kill for expedience. The nature of Renly's death showed me that Stannis is just as capable of "playing dirty" as any of the rest of them. I like the Stannis character and I don't disapprove of his actions. But when he gets filthy I will not say he's clean.

All in my opinion ofcourse.....LOL

Tis true that Ned would never have used such methods. I think Stannis is brave,though, he was leading the assault on King's Landing from the front (unlike Joffery). It wasn't cowardice that made him use the methods he did, it was the fact that he couldn't defeat Renly in the field. It's like General Paton once said "Never pick a fair fight".

As for Ned's execution, he was told he would be sent to the walk and that's why he agreed to the public statement. This was hardly honourable. He was tricked into a public execution, Renly was killed by magic. Both were dishonourable deaths.
I also like Stannis, he grows on me more as the books go on.

[mr muggles]

Im quite a fan of the prostitute Ros in the tv series, but, apparantly shes not in the books. After seeing the way shes treated, I hope she features again as a 'b' list character and achieves some form of vengeance! I've read elsewhere that some people think she will take over Dontos character arc in the books.

Its funny, but aside from Tyrion,Sansa, Cate, Jorah & Arya, most of my favourite characters are the 'b' listers:
Brienne
Bronn
Ros
Margaery Tyrell
Osha
Shae
The Hound

[Deeepred]

None of those are "B" listers....all have a part to play

[mindset]

Originally Posted by srhDS

Tis true that Ned would never have used such methods. I think Stannis is brave,though, he was leading the assault on King's Landing from the front (unlike Joffery). It wasn't cowardice that made him use the methods he did, it was the fact that he couldn't defeat Renly in the field. It's like General Paton once said "Never pick a fair fight".

Agreed. I'm not suggesting cowardice though, but expedience. Other posters are claiming that Stannis is " always about justice" and bravery and honour. I'm simply pointing out that there was no bravery involved in the death of Renly, unless you count Stannis shagging Melisandre as an act of bravery LOL.

As for Ned's execution, he was told he would be sent to the walk and that's why he agreed to the public statement. This was hardly honourable. He was tricked into a public execution, Renly was killed by magic. Both were dishonourable deaths.
I also like Stannis, he grows on me more as the books go on.

I meant Stark was executed formally, as opposed to being stabbed in the back, as Renly was.

[CD93]

Originally Posted by Silverstormm

BEST. WEEKEND. EVER.

Quite

[O'Neill]

Less than a week away now until its shown on Sky, just added to planner. The next week will probably go very slowly...

[ally08]

Brave to shag Melisandre?

You crazy? I'm a straight woman and I would give it a go.

[sootysoo]

Originally Posted by ally08

Brave to shag Melisandre?

You crazy? I'm a straight woman and I would give it a go.

I'm a gay man and wouldn't mind a bite of that apple!

[slappers r us]

Originally Posted by ally08

Brave to shag Melisandre?

You crazy? I'm a straight woman and I would give it a go.

according to the GOT name generator my name is

Melisandre Rivers

http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys.../#.UVGuyTd1aNO

[mindset]

Originally Posted by ally08

Brave to shag Melisandre?

You crazy? I'm a straight woman and I would give it a go.

She's got smoke coming out of dark places, you might get your bits singed....

[ally08]

Ooh Rivers, that means you are a Riverrun bastard.

I'm either Brienne Tallhart or Flowers depending on if I'm a lady or not.

I'm happy with that.

Physically I may be a squat, lazy wimp but in an alternate world I'm an amazon who would whip your giblets out soon as look at you.

[mr muggles]

Originally Posted by slappers r us

according to the GOT name generator my name is

Melisandre Rivers

http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys.../#.UVGuyTd1aNO

Im Amarei Waters, but I havent read the books yet, is that name good/bad?!

And as Westeros bastard, Im Manfred Waters. Think i'll try a noble lady next....

[Alleycat666]

Well if I was a noble lady I'd be Aelinor Inchfield, but as a not so noble one I'm Aelinor Waters...

[MotherTeresa]

Reviews started to pour out yesterday for the first four episodes, and it sounds like the quality will be continuing apace: http://www.metacritic.com/tv/game-of-thrones/season-3

[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by Deeepred

None of those are "B" listers....all have a part to play

They have a part to play, but they're not the main characters. That makes them B-listers. Although Jorah Mormont is a B-lister too.

The main characters are all Starks and Lannisters + Daenerys and Jon Snow.

[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by mr muggles

Im quite a fan of the prostitute Ros in the tv series, but, apparantly shes not in the books. After seeing the way shes treated, I hope she features again as a 'b' list character and achieves some form of vengeance! I've read elsewhere that some people think she will take over Dontos character arc in the books.

Its funny, but aside from Tyrion,Sansa, Cate, Jorah & Arya, most of my favourite characters are the 'b' listers:
Brienne
Bronn
Ros
Margaery Tyrell
Osha
Shae
The Hound

Speaking of Shae, did anyone else know that the actress was a hardcore pornstar?

[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by sootysoo

What I have never really understood about it is, they refer to Jaime Lannister as "king slayer" which is an insult, yet I suspect they'd all quite like to kill Joffrey and probably wanted to see Robert dead too (especially his brothers who thought they would make better kings). In order for Robb Stark to topple Joffrey, he'd have to kill the king and everyone else in Kings landing wouldn't he? Robert Baratheon had to kill the Targarean (sp?) king in order to become king himself. So why the "king slayer" insult? Surely that's the name of the whole game?

The difference is that the people fighting Joffrey have never recognised him as a legitimate king. Renly and Stannis may not have liked Robert, but they never would have killed him - the TV series also mentions that they served on Robert's council before the events of Season 1.

There's an excellent scene in Season 2 when Jaime is in prison talking about all the oaths he has had to juggle.

"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

[Cadiva]

Originally Posted by sootysoo

What I have never really understood about it is, they refer to Jaime Lannister as "king slayer" which is an insult, yet I suspect they'd all quite like to kill Joffrey and probably wanted to see Robert dead too (especially his brothers who thought they would make better kings). In order for Robb Stark to topple Joffrey, he'd have to kill the king and everyone else in Kings landing wouldn't he? Robert Baratheon had to kill the Targarean (sp?) king in order to become king himself. So why the "king slayer" insult? Surely that's the name of the whole game?

Robert Baratheon didn't have to kill the Targaryen king, he was already dead - killed by Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer

[brangdon]

Originally Posted by sootysoo

What I have never really understood about it is, they refer to Jaime Lannister as "king slayer" which is an insult, yet I suspect they'd all quite like to kill Joffrey and probably wanted to see Robert dead too (especially his brothers who thought they would make better kings).

As I recall, Jaime was one of the Kingsguard, sworn to protected his king no matter what. For him to do it was a great abuse of trust, and greater breaking of oath, than it would have been for almost anyone else.

In order for Robb Stark to topple Joffrey, he'd have to kill the king and everyone else in Kings landing wouldn't he?

No. There's always the Wall as an alternative. If Joffrey agreed to wear the black, he could never be king again so long as he lived, and would effectively be neutralised. That's what should have happened to Ned.

That said, for Robb to kill Joffrey would not be as bad because Robb never bent the knee to him; never swore allegiance to him or even recognised his claim, since he knows he is not Robert's son.

[Thrombin]

Originally Posted by brangdon

As I recall, Jaime was one of the Kingsguard, sworn to protected his king no matter what. For him to do it was a great abuse of trust, and greater breaking of oath, than it would have been for almost anyone else.

Precisely.Most of the people who look down on Jaime for being the King Slayer are actually very happy that the King was killed. It is the fact that he was sworn to protect the king and ended up stabbing him in the back that they find so objectionable. He broke his oath.

[Apple_Crumble]

Not long to go now What's everybody's plans? Watching the first episode in the middle of the night? in the morning? tomorrow evening?