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Bill Roache: Sex abuse is payback


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Old 19-03-2013, 22:58
haphash
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My view is that he lost his wife and has turned to spiritualism as a comfort towards the end of his life. For that reason it seems unfair for anyone to harangue an old and desperate man (unless you really believe that he has injured you personally).
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Old 19-03-2013, 23:03
Saltydog1955
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My view is that he lost his wife and has turned to spiritualism as a comfort towards the end of his life. For that reason it seems unfair for anyone to harangue an old and desperate man (unless you really believe that he has injured you personally).
He had weird religious views well before his wife died, they haven't just materialised since her death. His son Linus is a religious weirdo as well.

Must run in the family.
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Old 19-03-2013, 23:03
AdelaideGirl
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If he didn't keep talking to the press that would be fine. Holding some of these views is ok but it's the trying to push them on the rest of the world is where the trouble starts.
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Old 20-03-2013, 00:39
DavetheScot
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My view is that he lost his wife and has turned to spiritualism as a comfort towards the end of his life. For that reason it seems unfair for anyone to harangue an old and desperate man (unless you really believe that he has injured you personally).
Other people are vulnerable for various reasons and are still criticised. I don't think someone should be immune from criticism just because they're old. And what he said was really vile. OK, he condemned paedophiles, but you cannot read his views as meaning anything other than that children who are abused deserve it. Contemptible.
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Old 20-03-2013, 01:17
Pink Knight
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What did Bill Roache do in a former life to come back and play Ken Barlow for more than 50 years.
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Old 20-03-2013, 07:27
Ber
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Yes I think so. Karma and all that. I agree with Paralax.
Yep. His views seem to be along the same lines as karma.

People always like to talk about karma when people who are dicks have bad things happen to them but its obvious they have no real understanding of what the concept is.
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:14
gemma-the-husky
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He had weird religious views well before his wife died, they haven't just materialised since her death. His son Linus is a religious weirdo as well.

Must run in the family.
Linus became a necromonger in The Chronicles of Riddick.
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:15
gemma-the-husky
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What did Bill Roache do in a former life to come back and play Ken Barlow for more than 50 years.
got lucky?
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:32
grantus_max
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Voltaire has a lot to answer for

Some viewpoints have to be challenged. theoretically that statement could be applied to racists/homophobes etc
Not sure what you're point is. Freedom of expression also includes freedom to challenge. I have no problem if someone wants to express opinions that I may believe to be incorrect or misguided, as long as I have that freedom to challenge. That way, we have a free exchange of views and who know, perhaps someone listening in may have their opinions changed as a result.

That won't happen if those questionable views are muzzled from the outset, resulting in the listener-in retaining some sympathy for them because they are unaware of the reasonable criticisms that would otherwise have been made.
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:33
grantus_max
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What did Bill Roache do in a former life to come back and play Ken Barlow for more than 50 years.
More to the point, what the heck did the rest of us do to have Bill Roache inflicting Ken Barlow on us for the last 50 years?
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:37
grantus_max
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He had weird religious views well before his wife died, they haven't just materialised since her death. His son Linus is a religious weirdo as well.

Must run in the family.
If you look at his Wiki entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Roache, his grandfather had a range of interesting philosophical and religious/spiritual interests and even set up the Steiner school that BR went to for a while.

Steiner schools were given a bit of a going over on the Skeptics with a K podcast a few weeks ago - http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk...k-episode-090/
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:39
Saltydog1955
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If you look at his Wiki entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Roache, his grandfather had a range of interesting philosophical and religious/spiritual interests and even set up the Steiner school that BR went to for a while.

Steiner schools were given a bit of a going over on the Skeptics with a K podcast a few weeks ago - http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk...k-episode-090/
Proves my point!
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:51
dorydaryl
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More to the point, what the heck did the rest of us do to have Bill Roache inflicting Ken Barlow on us for the last 50 years?

Fair point!
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:08
Jo March
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Sorry but that is nonsense, I seriously doubt he has undergone a damascene conversion from what he said, so the apology is entirely meaningless. The worry is how many other people have the rather sick beliefs that he seems to have.
Agree entirely ...he DID say it and probably had his PR people on his back to backtrack,toute suite, for his image!
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:34
WhiteShade
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I've got some female friends who have been the victim of sexual assault and of course haven't deserved to be.

I sometimes do wonder if people who die young happen to have been mischievous in a former life though because they're always described as the best person you could have ever wished to have known etc. God himself thinks otherwise. Puzzling. *This theory isn't a strong belief of mine nor is it in any way connected to what that moron Glenn Hoddle once said.
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Old 20-03-2013, 13:02
Saltydog1955
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I've got some female friends who have been the victim of sexual assault and of course haven't deserved to be.

I sometimes do wonder if people who die young happen to have been mischievous in a former life though because they're always described as the best person you could have ever wished to have known etc. God himself thinks otherwise. Puzzling. *This theory isn't a strong belief of mine nor is it in any way connected to what that moron Glenn Hoddle once said.
My parents were both lovely people, though obviously not with out their faults. They doth died horrid, painful deaths. I wonder what 'God' thinks they might have done in a previous life?
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Old 20-03-2013, 19:18
Black Velvet
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My parents were both lovely people, though obviously not with out their faults. They doth died horrid, painful deaths. I wonder what 'God' thinks they might have done in a previous life?
Of all the stupid irresponsible things that Bill Roache could come away with. He ought to look bloody shame on himself. A man of his age should know better.
I have been following a thread over on the general discussion thread asking if there is an afterlife which most people don't believe there is. But one thing everybody over there agrees on. There was no before life before we were all born. So what Bill Roache has said is just pure rubbish!
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Old 21-03-2013, 07:38
Yorkie47
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Of all the stupid irresponsible things that Bill Roache could come away with. He ought to look bloody shame on himself. A man of his age should know better.
I have been following a thread over on the general discussion thread asking if there is an afterlife which most people don't believe there is. But one thing everybody over there agrees on. There was no before life before we were all born. So what Bill Roache has said is just pure rubbish!
Good grief, I've never read such hysteria over some (largely misquoted) statements.

William Roache is not excusing paedophiles, he is saying that the abuse of children is not the same as celebs having sex with underage, sexually precocious teenagers. If all the pop stars who had had sex with a star struck 15-year-old were prosecuted, the jails would be full of aging rockers! He is also not saying that it is right for celebs to have sex with underage groupies, he's just saying it's a different scenario.

His beliefs are not because he has lost his wife or has turned 80 (how patronising!). He believes in reincarnation and karma and millions of people share those beliefs.

I've quoted the above because, Black Velvet, you are reading a thread dominated by a group of militant atheists. They always turn up in these discussions. I'm not saying they are wrong - what I am saying is, that like the rest of us, they don't know for certain what happens before or after we die.

I've read widely on reincarnation and it makes a lot of sense and, no, I haven't lost my marbles any more than Bill Roache has. I just like to keep an open mind on these things.

However, he should be more careful what he says in public. It will only get misquoted, then jumped on by people who just take what he has said at face value and then jump all over him.
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Old 21-03-2013, 08:31
asp746
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hmm i too feel a tad sorry for Bill - i think they were putting words in his mouth and he fell for it - let's not forget he's pushing 80 and i genuinely think he got confused about what was being asked.

it's a shame because it's interesting to hear from soapstars so twisting things they say will just put them off giving interviews.
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Old 21-03-2013, 08:39
AdelaideGirl
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On the other hand if you were a willing sexually precocious 15 year old who got the celebrity they wanted to sleep with them surely you are boasting and happy about the experience and not complaining to the police?
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:16
grantus_max
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Good grief, I've never read such hysteria over some (largely misquoted) statements.

William Roache is not excusing paedophiles, he is saying that the abuse of children is not the same as celebs having sex with underage, sexually precocious teenagers. If all the pop stars who had had sex with a star struck 15-year-old were prosecuted, the jails would be full of aging rockers! He is also not saying that it is right for celebs to have sex with underage groupies, he's just saying it's a different scenario.

His beliefs are not because he has lost his wife or has turned 80 (how patronising!). He believes in reincarnation and karma and millions of people share those beliefs.

I've quoted the above because, Black Velvet, you are reading a thread dominated by a group of militant atheists. They always turn up in these discussions. I'm not saying they are wrong - what I am saying is, that like the rest of us, they don't know for certain what happens before or after we die.

I've read widely on reincarnation and it makes a lot of sense and, no, I haven't lost my marbles any more than Bill Roache has. I just like to keep an open mind on these things.

However, he should be more careful what he says in public. It will only get misquoted, then jumped on by people who just take what he has said at face value and then jump all over him.
Shouldn't you really have been aiming your comments at sceptics as opposed to atheists? Atheism is a position with regard to god claims. Reincarnation etc. doesn't necessarily come under that umbrella.

In any case, as any good sceptic will tell you, if you open your mind too far, your brains will fall out.

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Old 21-03-2013, 12:17
Yorkie47
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Shouldn't you really have been aiming your comments at sceptics as opposed to atheists? Atheism is a position with regard to god claims. Reincarnation etc. doesn't necessarily come under that umbrella.

In any case, as any good sceptic will tell you, if you open your mind too far, your brains will fall out.

And a closed mind will never let any new or different ideas in!

Scepticism is good, it means an ENQUIRING mind. If you come down on the side of atheism, then that's absolutely fine. But if you come down on the side of belief then that is entirely your prerogative.

Read the atheists' comments on various threads (including this one). You will see the kind of mockery and scorn directed at "believers", including on this thread of course, Bill Roache.

I'm fine with atheists so long as they don't assume they have all the answers because they don't, any more than the rest of us.
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Old 21-03-2013, 13:01
grantus_max
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And a closed mind will never let any new or different ideas in!

Scepticism is good, it means an ENQUIRING mind. If you come down on the side of atheism, then that's absolutely fine. But if you come down on the side of belief then that is entirely your prerogative.

Read the atheists' comments on various threads (including this one). You will see the kind of mockery and scorn directed at "believers", including on this thread of course, Bill Roache.

I'm fine with atheists so long as they don't assume they have all the answers because they don't, any more than the rest of us.
It sounds to me as if you have your own particular issue with atheists and conveniently ignore the fact that the scorn you dislike generally travels in both directions. The general atheist position is that the case for god has not been made, not that there is no god. Judging by your comments, I'm not sure you understand that.

The general sceptical position is to examine assertions to establish how well supported they are by the available evidence. You appear to be paying lip-service to scepticism without actually exercising it.

Neither atheism or scepticism are about having all the answers. What many atheists and sceptics are doing is pointing out that neither do many who say they have. Whether that is done in a mocking way or not, the point is equally as salient.

Returning to the subject at hand - does your enquiring mind stretch to the possibility that the way the human psyche operates could well be affecting your judgement about claims such as reincarnation etc? How much of your opinion regarding reincarnation reflects a 'feeling' you have about the likelihood of such things? Could that feeling not have been unconsciously misinterpreted by you, especially if you would like the thing you have a feeling about to be true?

Scepticism is about taking yourself, your own biases, your own feelings, desires and preconceptions out of the equation and going where the evidence takes you. Having a truly open mind is accepting the truth of where you end up, not remaining in denial because you'd rather it took you somewhere else.

Last edited by grantus_max : 21-03-2013 at 13:16. Reason: Typo correction
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Old 21-03-2013, 13:46
Yorkie47
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It sounds to me as if you have your own particular issue with atheists and conveniently ignore the fact that the scorn you dislike generally travels in both directions. The general atheist position is that the case for god has not been made, not that there is no god. Judging by your comments, I'm not sure you understand that.

The general sceptical position is to examine assertions to establish how well supported they are by the available evidence. You appear to be paying lip-service to scepticism without actually exercising it.

Neither atheism or scepticism are about having all the answers. What many atheists and sceptics are doing is pointing out that neither do many who say they have. Whether that is done in a mocking way or not, the point is equally as salient.

Returning to the subject at hand - does your enquiring mind stretch to the possibility that the way the human psyche operates could well be affecting your judgement about claims such as reincarnation etc? How much of your opinion regarding reincarnation reflects a 'feeling' you have about the likelihood of such things? Could that feeling not have been unconsciously misinterpreted by you, especially if you would like the thing you have a feeling about to be true?

Scepticism is about taking yourself, your own biases, your own feelings, desires and preconceptions out of the equation and going where the evidence takes you. Having a truly open mind is accepting the truth of where you end up, not remaining in denial because you'd rather it took you somewhere else.
I take your point. I prefer that there is a god and I prefer the idea of a life after (and perhaps before) this one. The idea of reincarnation seems to make sense of this otherwise apparently senseless existence. I do try to take my preferences into the equation (and I admit not always successfully).

Could the "feelings" I have been unconsciously supported by my preferences? Yes, because there is a part of my mind that is hard to switch off but I do try to take my mind along other pathways.

I read the religious threads on here and often think that what the atheists say has much relevance. It's hard to think that somewhere out there, life goes on. Then I go back to my own personal experiences and go back to thinking there might be something in the idea of us having a spirit after all.

I have always thought about such things and read about them. I'm 66 but still haven't reached a final conclusion and never expect to do so. How can I? I am not yet dead so cannot tell you or anyone else (or myself) what the truth is. And once I am dead then I won't be able to post on here!

I am trying to answer you in a considered manner and I hope you reply to me in a similar way, if you wish to reply that is.
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Old 21-03-2013, 14:13
grantus_max
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I take your point. I prefer that there is a god and I prefer the idea of a life after (and perhaps before) this one. The idea of reincarnation seems to make sense of this otherwise apparently senseless existence. I do try to take my preferences into the equation (and I admit not always successfully).

Could the "feelings" I have been unconsciously supported by my preferences? Yes, because there is a part of my mind that is hard to switch off but I do try to take my mind along other pathways.

I read the religious threads on here and often think that what the atheists say has much relevance. It's hard to think that somewhere out there, life goes on. Then I go back to my own personal experiences and go back to thinking there might be something in the idea of us having a spirit after all.

I have always thought about such things and read about them. I'm 66 but still haven't reached a final conclusion and never expect to do so. How can I? I am not yet dead so cannot tell you or anyone else (or myself) what the truth is. And once I am dead then I won't be able to post on here!

I am trying to answer you in a considered manner and I hope you reply to me in a similar way, if you wish to reply that is.
Sounds good to me

A lot of the time I find myself correcting people's understanding of what I mean when I say I am an atheist. It's probably better to classify myself as an agnostic atheist (which most are). In other words, I can't say for sure that there is no god, but I don't believe there is one and live my life on that basis.

Since realising that I was an atheist, I applied the same reasoning that brought me to that conclusion to other claims of the supernatural and paranormal. From one angle, the only supporting evidence appears to be poor quality or anecdotal at best. From another angle, it does appear that the human mind is very susceptable to being fooled, often by itself.

Reading the terrible arguments put forward by young earth creationists on other forums, it is a real eye opener to how powerful self deception and indoctrination can be. I can't be anything other than sceptical after seeing the lengths that people will go to in order to maintain their preconceptions.

I completely acknowledge that I tend to automatically disbelieve claims of a particular type when they are made now. When you've heard the same logical fallacies and seen the same links to questionable evidence time and time again, you get to the point where it will take something pretty special as far as argument or evidence is concerned to really get my attention. Maybe that's being closed-minded, but it really is the job of the person making the claim to ensure that it stands up to reasonable scrutiny.
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