Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

Worth chasing another HDMI cable into the wall?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22-03-2013, 10:18
Flufan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,052

A friend of mine is having building work done in her living room. She's going to have a TV up on the wall above the fireplace and her Sky box and DVD player on a unit to the side. She's going to have cables chased into the wall:-

- HDMI for Sky signal
- SCART for DVD input
- coaxial to TV (for when Sky goes down, so she can still watch Freeview)

She's seen some new DVD players coming out that have no SCART connectivity and is wondering whether it's worth having a second HDMI cable run as well, before the plasterer comes, to be able to connect such a DVD box in case that's all that's available in the future, when her current DVD box eventually dies. Does this seem like a wise move? Is SCART on its way out, with HDMI the successor?

Thanks for all advice.
Flufan is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 22-03-2013, 10:34
Chasing Shadows
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,075
Is SCART on its way out, with HDMI the successor?
DVD is on its way out, with BluRay the successor.

And as BluRay players don't support scart, yes, it would make total sense to have at least one other HDMI cable run through the wall. Not only are machines with scart output becoming rarer, but TVs with scart input also.

I have a Sky box, a Blu Ray player and a DVD recorder connected to my TV. I haven't used a scart cable in years...
Chasing Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 10:36
misar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 259
Yes to both questions but if it were me I would have trunking to allow easy replacement or addition of cables, including the TV power. For convenience it needs to be sufficiently large to allow HDMI and coax plugs to go through (probably not feasible with SCART).

You may be warned of interference problems running cables together (especially HDMI) but at least with trunking you can try different cables.
misar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 11:31
cp2
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Standish, near Wigan
Posts: 407
I would also suggest at least one network cable for that Smart TV upgrade - cable is better than wireless.
cp2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 11:31
Flufan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,052
Thanks for both answers. Based on that info, she's going to have a second HDMI cable run.

Good spot about the TV's power lead - but it turns out that she's already made provision for that separately, running power to a socket on the wall behind where the TV will be.

ETA:

Sorry, thanks for all three answers!

I was just thinking about a network cable, too. I did a quick Google and Internet-connected TV seems to have had something of a mixed reception.

I started discussing it with my friend and it turns out that her router is right across the other side of the room, so direct cabling sounds a bit impractical. Unless - is there such a thing as a wireless receiver that could sit with the Sky and DVD boxes, and that be connected to the TV, acting like a kind of repeater?
Flufan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 11:48
chrisjr
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Reading
Posts: 21,579
Having only the one HDMI lead might not be a problem. You can always stick a switch on the end to select between sources if necessary. And of course if you use a surround sound system of any reasonable quality it will have multiple HDMI ins for the external kit and only a single HDMI needed to the telly.

Speaking of which...

If there is no surround system at the moment it might be worth checking if the TV supports Audio Return Channel over HDMI. If it does then run a cable to that socket. That way you are set up for any future addition of a surround system. Just get one that also supports ARC and you don't get the "DOH!!!" moment as you realise there is no way to get sound out of the telly into the surround system for those occasions when the built in Freeview is in use for example. Particularly so if all the cables are buried in the wall
chrisjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 11:51
chrisjr
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Reading
Posts: 21,579
I was just thinking about a network cable, too. I did a quick Google and Internet-connected TV seems to have had something of a mixed reception.

I started discussing it with my friend and it turns out that her router is right across the other side of the room, so direct cabling sounds a bit impractical. Unless - is there such a thing as a wireless receiver that could sit with the Sky and DVD boxes, and that be connected to the TV, acting like a kind of repeater?
Not a problem. Stick a network cable in and as and when necessary either use a pair of Homeplug/Powerline adapters or a WiFi adapter.

Homeplugs/Powerline adapters plug into the mains and use the mains wiring to communicate between each other. Or you can get simple WiFi adapters that plug on to the end of the cable to give wireless access to the router.
chrisjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 12:39
tealady
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: colchester
Posts: 10,426
I was just thinking about a network cable, too. I did a quick Google and Internet-connected TV seems to have had something of a mixed reception.
A Blu Ray player will likely have an rj45 connection for updating and apps such as iplayer, netflix, so planning a network connection for that is a good idea. Also, if they ditched sky and got a freeview box, they also can come with the same connectivity.
tealady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 17:57
Orbitalzone
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sussex
Posts: 11,316
Just remember that whatever you install now will likely change in the not so distant future. I'd seriously consider trying to use trunking if all possible, maybe chase in most of it but leave access top and bottom where the TV would hide the top access and something else could hide the bottom access. Then leave a pull cord string in there and leave a nice large trunking for future use!
Orbitalzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 19:22
neo_wales
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria
Posts: 7,393
Another vote for trunking, its a tidy option and upgradable in the future. Comes in different shapes and colours these days too.
neo_wales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 19:23
iangrad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 768
Make sure that the hdmi leads are not in the same cable run as the aerial RF lead . Keep the 2 at least 9 " apart .

Personaly I would go 3 x hdmi , 1 x network feed & 1 mains . Scart on a "state of the art " is a waste of time + if you need to feed Low resolution video feed you can plug it into a SKY receiver that will forward it to the TV ,

PS hdmi switches work but can get confused and require intervention to switch them over or they lock out , better to put the cables in correctly in the first place and do the swithcing with the TV .
iangrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 19:57
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 37,847
Make sure that the hdmi leads are not in the same cable run as the aerial RF lead . Keep the 2 at least 9 " apart .
Makes no difference- there aren't any concerns with running HDMI and aerial wires together - unless of course you're using crappy aerial wires and 'HDMI' cables that don't meet the HDMI specifications.

I've seen hundreds working perfectly OK, and fitted loads as well.

I suspect it's yet another of these 'urban myths' which seen to appear from nowhere?.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 22:07
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 15,626
Makes no difference- there aren't any concerns with running HDMI and aerial wires together - unless of course you're using crappy aerial wires and 'HDMI' cables that don't meet the HDMI specifications.

I've seen hundreds working perfectly OK, and fitted loads as well.

I suspect it's yet another of these 'urban myths' which seen to appear from nowhere?.
+1

It's not a myth it's down to crap interconnects.

The worst offenders seem to be the overpriced hdmi cables.

Make RF interconnects from decent coax (ideally WF100 sat grade cable). If you use the crap thin (mostly white coax patch leads next to hdmi leads or unscreened rf wall plates expect problems

HDMI uses frequencies that can easily wipe out a whole carrier frequency.

You have not experienced I guess because you use decent interconnects.
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2013, 22:19
iangrad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 768
Makes no difference- there aren't any concerns with running HDMI and aerial wires together - unless of course you're using crappy aerial wires and 'HDMI' cables that don't meet the HDMI specifications.

I've seen hundreds working perfectly OK, and fitted loads as well.

I suspect it's yet another of these 'urban myths' which seen to appear from nowhere?.
Nigel : I am surprised at you saying urban myth , we are trying to offer advice to the OP . The issue crops up quite often and of course well screened leads will minimise the problem but unless we mention it to the OP who may not have your skills he may have a unexplained loss of RF signals on freeview stations -- but by then his cables will be well and truly buried in the wall !
iangrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2013, 12:58
ProDave
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Northern Scottish Highlands
Posts: 11,302
TIP

TEST the hdmi cables first before burying them in the wall.

Based on experience once of pulling a 10 metre hdmi lead in for a ceiling mounted projector, only to find it was a duff lead.
ProDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2013, 17:46
Winston_1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,125
Not a problem. Stick a network cable in and as and when necessary either use a pair of Homeplug/Powerline adapters or a WiFi adapter.

Homeplugs/Powerline adapters plug into the mains and use the mains wiring to communicate between each other. Or you can get simple WiFi adapters that plug on to the end of the cable to give wireless access to the router.
NOT Homeplugs/powerline adapters. The mains wiring is not designed to be used in this way and to do so causes serious radio interference to your neighbours.

WiFi adapter is OK, and even better is running a CAT5 cable around the room. I can't see what is impractical about that.
Winston_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2013, 18:56
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 15,626
NOT Homeplugs/powerline adapters. The mains wiring is not designed to be used in this way and to do so causes serious radio interference to your neighbours.

WiFi adapter is OK, and even better is running a CAT5 cable around the room. I can't see what is impractical about that.
Rubbish

On your soapbox again.
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2013, 19:48
R410
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Guisborough, North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,878
I have not done it myself but I would suggest using trunking also, as it makes the job a lot easier to replace cables if needed in the future.

Adding a second HDMI cable will also future proof your setup a bit too. It will allow you to have to HDMI devices without needing to swap the cables over from devices.
R410 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2013, 22:08
Winston_1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,125
Rubbish

On your soapbox again.
Which part of my post is rubbish? Responsible retailers choose not to sell Homeplugs for the reasons I stated.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page22.htm#PLT

Running CAT 5 cable around a room is no more impractical than running aerial, satellite, or phone cables. Is this not better than polluting the ether for your neighbours? It is cheaper and greener too as no additional power is required.

So, I ask again which part of my post is rubbish?
Winston_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2013, 23:02
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 15,626
Which part of my post is rubbish? Responsible retailers choose not to sell Homeplugs for the reasons I stated.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page22.htm#PLT

Running CAT 5 cable around a room is no more impractical than running aerial, satellite, or phone cables. Is this not better than polluting the ether for your neighbours? It is cheaper and greener too as no additional power is required.

So, I ask again which part of my post is rubbish?
All of it, there are a massive number of these in use. The tiny minority they might cause a problem with is vanishingly small and getting smaller every day.

The technology is supported by all the major companies, recommended by Humax, provided free by BT for users of their Youview service for example.


The main complainers cause significant problems for other users of the RF spectrum in close proximity to other users.

Thankfully in a democracy, the majority prevails

I am going to add a rider to every post mentioning homeplugs in future about the inevitable post from you.

Face it there are millions in use, a tiny tiny minority cause problems, far less than finding a clear WiFi channel when all the close neighbours have WiFi routers.

Running cable is not practical for everyone, neither is wireless.

The technology is 100% legal and licensed, it's time you recognise technology changes, 4G will create far more problems than ever homeplugs will ever do, perhaps you ought to find a new soapbox

Face it you have totally lost the argument,
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2013, 00:32
Winston_1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,125
All of it, there are a massive number of these in use. The tiny minority they might cause a problem with is vanishingly small and getting smaller every day.

The technology is supported by all the major companies, recommended by Humax, provided free by BT for users of their Youview service for example.


The main complainers cause significant problems for other users of the RF spectrum in close proximity to other users.

Thankfully in a democracy, the majority prevails

I am going to add a rider to every post mentioning homeplugs in future about the inevitable post from you.

Face it there are millions in use, a tiny tiny minority cause problems, far less than finding a clear WiFi channel when all the close neighbours have WiFi routers.

Running cable is not practical for everyone, neither is wireless.

The technology is 100% legal and licensed, it's time you recognise technology changes, 4G will create far more problems than ever homeplugs will ever do, perhaps you ought to find a new soapbox

Face it you have totally lost the argument,
It is you that is talking rubbish and you know it. All Homeplug installations cause interference by the very fact that unscreened, unbalanced mains cabling is used to pipe RF around the house and the problem is getting worse, not better, every day with the latest high speed units.

BT supplied Homeplugs are removed rapidly by BT when Ofcom get a complaint and an alternative technology provided.

I assume you mean radio hams by the main complainers. They do not cause problems for other users, they would swiftly lose their licence if they did. All the hams I have met are very concerned about TVI and will go out of their way to help and provide filters even though the problem is poorly designed domestic equipment. Signals from the local taxi company can also swamp poor equipment. Sadly taxi companies are not so helpful.

Running cable is no more difficult or impractical than running aerial or satellite cables. The problem is laziness.

Being legal does not make it harmless. Tobacco and alcohol are both legal and they both cause immense harm. The best we can do is try to educate people to the problems, and the same applies to Homeplugs.

No one really knows what problems 4G will cause but al least there is a mechanism in place to solve them. No free filters on peoples aerials can solve Homeplug problems so the best solution is to not use them, especially when there are so much better ways of getting ethernet around the home.
Winston_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2013, 10:18
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 15,626
BT supplied Homeplugs are removed rapidly by BT when Ofcom get a complaint and an alternative technology provided.


.
Which is fine, of the millions that are used, a tiny tiny percentage may cause a problem.

Telling everyone not to use them is totally pointless, It will have zero effect on the number fitted of which only a minute proportion will actually cause any problems to anyone else.

Basically you massively exaggerate the impact for some weird personal campaign that's going to make no difference at all.

To put this into perspective we've shipped into the UK over half a million pairs of adaptors, and we've had 20 customers who've had interference issues and we've managed to resolve all of those," says Lishawa, who adds that the solution is often to 'notch out' or block the offending frequencies via the adapter.
from

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology.../2008/oct/20/1
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-03-2013, 14:20
tealady
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: colchester
Posts: 10,426
NOT Homeplugs/powerline adapters. The mains wiring is not designed to be used in this way and to do so causes serious radio interference to your neighbours.
That's about as meaningful as saying copper phone lines were never designed for broadband.
tealady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2013, 00:04
Winston_1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,125
That's about as meaningful as saying copper phone lines were never designed for broadband.
That is very true. However copper phone lines are a balanced pair and matched pretty well to the equipment on the other end so interference is not a problem. The mains wiring is unbalanced, unmatched, and has a discontinuity at every socket on the ring and when fed with wideband RF the whole house becomes a transmitter.
Winston_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2013, 00:16
Winston_1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,125
Which is fine, of the millions that are used, a tiny tiny percentage may cause a problem.

Telling everyone not to use them is totally pointless, It will have zero effect on the number fitted of which only a minute proportion will actually cause any problems to anyone else.

Basically you massively exaggerate the impact for some weird personal campaign that's going to make no difference at all.


from

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology.../2008/oct/20/1
I read that link. To say that there have been only 20 issues is a blatant lie. He means he only knows of 20 reported issues. He also talks about notching out certain frequencies. To prevent interference he needs to notch out the complete RF band, but of cause then they would not work. All PLT installations will radiate interference, you cannot change the laws of physics. You can notch out some frequencies, and it appears most, not all, amateur bands are notched out simply because hams are the people who understand the issue and are liable to complain. There is plenty of evidence, and plenty of links on the web proving the interference issues. And there is at least one retailer who is prepared to be responsible enough not to sell them for this very reason.
Winston_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:38.