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Doc Martin (Part 15 Spoilers)


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Old 24-03-2013, 01:56
ReneeBird
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As they say in some 12-step groups, "fake it until you make it."
I've heard of this before.
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Old 24-03-2013, 03:22
NewPark
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Am watching some idiotic new show where has-been celebrities and attention seeking bafoons have to participate in a diving competition

Just turning on my Netflix now what series are we watching?
We're up to S4 E7 "The Wrong Goodbye"

Title is a reference probably to a Raymond Chandler noir novel titled "The Long Goodbye" and featuring Detective Philip Marlowe, filmed in 1973 by Robert Altman (Google is so wonderful.)

and suddenly also it dawns on me that it's a reference to the "wrong" word used so prominently in the last scene.
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Old 24-03-2013, 03:52
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I totally believe in this. I think actually there are studies that show, e.g., that moving your facial muscles into a smile improves your mood!

As they say in some 12-step groups, "fake it until you make it."
I agree that "fake until you make it" is a good strategy for creating change. But it only works if we fake it because we recognize there is something about ourselves we want to change. The Doc was faking it to please Louisa, he wasn't faking it to affect a change in himself. In my opinion, it is really for the wrong reason. I agree with Louisa, you do have to want it in order for it to work.
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Old 24-03-2013, 04:05
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Just going by what it was called in our little bit of London.

Interesting that the Daily Mail calls it the same thing, too.

Why the British fry-up is the healthiest breakfast of all...
Thanks for the reminder as I had forgotten the fried bread.
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Old 24-03-2013, 04:08
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OMG! We are surrounded by cheeseheads!
But if it makes you feel any better, this one dated an ag professor from College Station once upon a life ago.
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Old 24-03-2013, 04:20
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Reason #684626486 why it will be Louisa, not Martin, who makes or breaks the relationship in series 6.
I tend to agree with you, but the writers are so skillful that I wonder how we'll see it initially, until we've had time to analyze it closer. They have always done such a good job of making Martin seem like the bad guy in the relationship, but we have figured out that Louisa has her issues. But I do think we saw him basically embracing a family life style in S5, taking care of family, home, and job in a very conventional way. Now he just needs to see to his woman, too!! and we'll all be happy.
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Old 24-03-2013, 05:17
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Sorry

But having lived my whole life in the UK I beg to differ

A ' Full English/Irish ' or an ' All Day Breakfast ' is as described in earlier posts and all protein items are not necessarily fried; may be grilled or oven baked.

A ' Full Irish ' is sometimes referred to as an ' Ulster Fry ' in parts of Northern Ireland.

A request for a ' Big Fry Up ' would elicit the question ' What would you like fried ? '

Not the same thing at all...
I think it's important that the Americans on this forum not always make presumptions and value judgments about our British cousins. Let them speak for themselves. This, after all, was their forum before we joined.
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Old 24-03-2013, 10:29
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I think it's important that the Americans on this forum not always make presumptions and value judgments about our British cousins. Let them speak for themselves. This, after all, was their forum before we joined.
No offence taken; none at all

This is a forum for all of us who enjoy The Doc

Just wanted to set the record straight
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Old 24-03-2013, 12:16
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I agree that "fake until you make it" is a good strategy for creating change. But it only works if we fake it because we recognize there is something about ourselves we want to change. The Doc was faking it to please Louisa, he wasn't faking it to affect a change in himself. In my opinion, it is really for the wrong reason. I agree with Louisa, you do have to want it in order for it to work.
Absolutely. I think in those very same groups it is key that you can't change for someone else, or under duress, you have to come to the conclusion that it's what YOU want.
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Old 24-03-2013, 12:41
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I tend to agree with you, but the writers are so skillful that I wonder how we'll see it initially, until we've had time to analyze it closer. They have always done such a good job of making Martin seem like the bad guy in the relationship, but we have figured out that Louisa has her issues. But I do think we saw him basically embracing a family life style in S5, taking care of family, home, and job in a very conventional way. Now he just needs to see to his woman, too!! and we'll all be happy.
I still am having some trouble sorting out what it means that Louisa will make or break the relationship between them.

Does it mean that she will be the one who decides whether it's working or not, and ultimately leave or stay -- assuming that Martin will not himself voluntarily make a choice to leave if it's not working? Because I think that's probably right. Despite his initial reluctance to commit to marriage, I think he's past that point now, and I just don't see him voluntarily leaving Louisa and James Henry, or issuing any ultimatums.

Does it mean that she is the one who now has to make some changes -- e.g., in the direction of greater tolerance, an acceptance of the things she cannot change, more flexibility about what she wants from her career and when, or where they live -- well, it seems right that she needs to make some attitude adjustments.

Martin has now offered the biggest change -- to give up on London and stay in Portwenn. But there's work he needs to do too, as in learning to operate like a partner instead of making decisions for both of them. So I can't let him off the hook entirely and feel that the issues that remain are up to Louisa to work on.

What I come down to is that they both have to alter some aspects of their behavior, but that Louisa needs to take the lead in verbalizing what she wants and needs from Martin and eliciting the same from him. Since left to his own devices what we have seen Martin do is either suffer in silence or explode, or make high-handed assumptions.

Of course, Louisa has not been exactly expert in handling communications between them either -- but of the two, I think she has more flexibility to alter her behavior and more willingness to change if she thinks it's necessary.
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Old 24-03-2013, 13:57
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I was watching parts of S3E5 (working on another one of my projects! ) and noticed something that I don't think we have discussed. Or maybe we did and I don't remember.

When Martin is leaving Louisa's house after being "smarmy" to Holly, Martin asks, "Why do you always find fault?" Louisa responds, "There's no good acting nice Martin, you've got to want to." And Martin shouts, "Why?".

While the scene was played for laughs, I can see Martin's point. Louisa has been after him about improving his bedside manner, and when he does attempt to do this she goes after him. Why does he have to "want to"? Many times in my career dealing with the public I acted nice to people when I didn't want to. Most of the time I DID want to or I would have hated my job, but Martin "acting" nice could be just a first step for him. Unfortunately, Louisa's reaction shut that down.
LG shuts DM down when he agrees to be godfather to Isobel's baby at the end of S3, too.
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Old 24-03-2013, 14:24
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Ahh, yes, that's why I was so frustrated with LG then. Because I had seen that as well. Thank you!
I concur. I liked how he was going to walk past Mrs. Lamb but stopped and thought about it a minute, then tried out his new 'bedside manner'. Bless his heart.
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Old 24-03-2013, 14:37
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Believe it or not, we have pastie shops in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan -- one we have visited is in St. Ignace. There are worked-out mines up there. (Lots of Finns and Italians, too). I never thought about Cornish settling there, but maybe.
We've a pastie restaurant in Mesa, AZ!
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Old 24-03-2013, 14:49
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I still am having some trouble sorting out what it means that Louisa will make or break the relationship between

What I come down to is that they both have to alter some aspects of their behavior, but that Louisa needs to take the lead in verbalizing what she wants and needs from Martin and eliciting the same from him. Since left to his own devices what we have seen Martin do is either suffer in silence or explode, or make high-handed assumptions.
I believe your statement is accurate. It is Louisa we must rely on now because she is the closest to "normal" we've got. She must guide the Doc because he has no clue. Although she is not great at communicating by any means. She's good at getting offended & stomping away. Her insecurities.
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Old 24-03-2013, 18:36
Adelie Manchot
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No offence taken; none at all

This is a forum for all of us who enjoy The Doc

Just wanted to set the record straight
Sorry, is just that my ex was born within the sound of the bells of St. Mary-le-Bow and that is what he always called it and that is what he always ordered when we would have breakfast before going off to work. I don't eat eggs so I'd always have something else. Of course, as with everything, there are regional variations as to what common things are called.
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Old 24-03-2013, 20:34
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I tend to agree with you, but the writers are so skillful that I wonder how we'll see it initially, until we've had time to analyze it closer. They have always done such a good job of making Martin seem like the bad guy in the relationship, but we have figured out that Louisa has her issues. But I do think we saw him basically embracing a family life style in S5, taking care of family, home, and job in a very conventional way. Now he just needs to see to his woman, too!! and we'll all be happy.
I think why I have such a different take on things is that I understand men like Martin having dealt with many like him in my life, having to become that way myself in order to do my job and having been married to a person that was very much like him in this particular context. These are people who are used to being in command, be it an army battalion or a surgical team-they bark and people jump. Being and showing any emotion is a huge detriment and people who do not have tightly controlled emotions will not succeed at these positions. These are people who do not sit down and talk about their feelings, they are not 'sensitive' and they find highly emotional people confusing at best and distasteful and unreliable at worst. They can be very passionate, loving and caring but in their own way.

A highly emotional being like Louisa might as well be speaking Swahili when she wants to discuss relationships, emotions and feelings with Martin. He simply does not understand what she is trying to say no matter how much he may want to-he has no true reference. She has to learn to communicate with him in a way he understands and then they can move forward. She is the one that has to bridge the gap because he can not, he doesn't have the first clue how to.

Her becoming 'Our Lady of the Presumptious Assumptions' (as she often does), getting angry, frustrated, argumentative and then walking away only serves to make Martin either shut down and tune her out or get so frustrated with her that he lashes out. Eventually he wll decide that despite what feelings and emotions he has towards her and James Henry it just is not worth the acrimony and walking away would be beneficial to all parties involved.

If she wants to have a successful relationship with Martin she needs to deal with him with a cool head, calmly, patiently (and without any interruption) so he can understand what she is trying to say to him, what she needs and desires in their relationship and as a family. She also needs to be patient and allow Martin the time to formulate his answers in expressing his feelings-it is hard for him for he is trying to speak a language he doesn't know well at all. If she does this he will respond positivly and will eventually become what she desires (for the most part). She is a teacher and if she is half the teacher she is made out to be she should understand this.

That is why I maintain that it will be Louisa, not Martin, that makes or breaks the relationship.
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Old 24-03-2013, 20:35
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Visited Port Isaac last week. The locals are preparing for the filming which starts next week
I am so excited! For all of the loyal and patient fans who have waited for several two years stretches and then are only given a "feel good" five minutes (or less) at the end, they just have to give us a little more "luvin" this season. Please!
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Old 24-03-2013, 21:50
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I think why I have such a different take on things is that I understand men like Martin having dealt with many like him in my life, having to become that way myself in order to do my job and having been married to a person that was very much like him in this particular context. These are people who are used to being in command, be it an army battalion or a surgical team-they bark and people jump. Being and showing any emotion is a huge detriment and people who do not have tightly controlled emotions will not succeed at these positions. These are people who do not sit down and talk about their feelings, they are not 'sensitive' and they find highly emotional people confusing at best and distasteful and unreliable at worst. They can be very passionate, loving and caring but in their own way.

A highly emotional being like Louisa might as well be speaking Swahili when she wants to discuss relationships, emotions and feelings with Martin. He simply does not understand what she is trying to say no matter how much he may want to-he has no true reference. She has to learn to communicate with him in a way he understands and then they can move forward. She is the one that has to bridge the gap because he can not, he doesn't have the first clue how to.

Her becoming 'Our Lady of the Presumptious Assumptions' (as she often does), getting angry, frustrated, argumentative and then walking away only serves to make Martin either shut down and tune her out or get so frustrated with her that he lashes out. Eventually he wll decide that despite what feelings and emotions he has towards her and James Henry it just is not worth the acrimony and walking away would be beneficial to all parties involved.

If she wants to have a successful relationship with Martin she needs to deal with him with a cool head, calmly, patiently (and without any interruption) so he can understand what she is trying to say to him, what she needs and desires in their relationship and as a family. She also needs to be patient and allow Martin the time to formulate his answers in expressing his feelings-it is hard for him for he is trying to speak a language he doesn't know well at all. If she does this he will respond positivly and will eventually become what she desires (for the most part). She is a teacher and if she is half the teacher she is made out to be she should understand this.

That is why I maintain that it will be Louisa, not Martin, that makes or breaks the relationship.
I do agree with all, or almost all of that. And it has certainly occurred to me to wonder if Martin getting fed up and leaving or threatening to leave would not be a variation they haven't tried yet and so would be tempting. And in fact, I think that something like this was in Martin's head when he didn't go through with the wedding and told Louisa that she wouldn't make him happy either. And when he decided not to persuade her to go to London with him, after she walked out. And some part of me also feels that one has to believe in the possibility that he could give up on the relationship, or else it's a complete power imbalance, and not fair to Martin.

But I guess I have a couple of difficulties with that scenario playing out in S6. One, although BP has been pretty ruthless about disappointing fans in order to keep the story stringing along, and also to emphasize that this isn't a fairy tale, I feel that this is a road they won't go down on what is probably the last season. I just think they're done with the "will they-won't they" aspect of the story. In order to make it at all believable that within these 8 episodes he would leave (and presumably be reconciled in the last 5 minutes) they would have to have a very unpleasant season which would drive fans away in droves.

So while it may happen somewhere down the road that there's a crisis precipitated by Martin, I don't think we'll see it in S6. (Thank goodness.)

Two, it seems to me that if their relationship is for better or for worse, that they've already lived through a good part of the worse, and he still came out the other end wanting to make a commitment to her.

And three, I hold out hope that if Louisa has at last extracted what she needed from him, that she will settle down somewhat and be more patient.
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Old 24-03-2013, 22:18
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I think why I have such a different take on things is that I understand men like Martin having dealt with many like him in my life, having to become that way myself in order to do my job and having been married to a person that was very much like him in this particular context. These are people who are used to being in command, be it an army battalion or a surgical team-they bark and people jump. Being and showing any emotion is a huge detriment and people who do not have tightly controlled emotions will not succeed at these positions. These are people who do not sit down and talk about their feelings, they are not 'sensitive' and they find highly emotional people confusing at best and distasteful and unreliable at worst. They can be very passionate, loving and caring but in their own way.

A highly emotional being like Louisa might as well be speaking Swahili when she wants to discuss relationships, emotions and feelings with Martin. He simply does not understand what she is trying to say no matter how much he may want to-he has no true reference. She has to learn to communicate with him in a way he understands and then they can move forward. She is the one that has to bridge the gap because he can not, he doesn't have the first clue how to.

Her becoming 'Our Lady of the Presumptious Assumptions' (as she often does), getting angry, frustrated, argumentative and then walking away only serves to make Martin either shut down and tune her out or get so frustrated with her that he lashes out. Eventually he wll decide that despite what feelings and emotions he has towards her and James Henry it just is not worth the acrimony and walking away would be beneficial to all parties involved.

If she wants to have a successful relationship with Martin she needs to deal with him with a cool head, calmly, patiently (and without any interruption) so he can understand what she is trying to say to him, what she needs and desires in their relationship and as a family. She also needs to be patient and allow Martin the time to formulate his answers in expressing his feelings-it is hard for him for he is trying to speak a language he doesn't know well at all. If she does this he will respond positivly and will eventually become what she desires (for the most part). She is a teacher and if she is half the teacher she is made out to be she should understand this.

That is why I maintain that it will be Louisa, not Martin, that makes or breaks the relationship.
If your description is the way it works out, I would say that the writers would have the two of them breakup.That is a pretty hopeless scenario, and would be extremely hard to justify them carrying on as a couple. Even very good writers creating a highly fictional world would have a difficult time making that credible for any length of time, if they stayed true to the characters as you describe them. From my perspective, the only way they could pull off a reconciliation would be to do it in the last 5 minutes of the last episode.

And that is the path they have taken for 2 seasons now. I hope they figure out a way to avoid that for series 6. At least in series 3 we had a few moments of happiness between them, even if the writers were foreshadowing their doom.
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Old 25-03-2013, 00:17
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For all of our "noodling" about how this thing will work out between LG and DE, think on this:

In S4 - E8 "The Wrong Goodbye" LG tells Isobel "No one knows what I see in him." What is that magic? Short word - four letters - one syllable - starts with an L ends with an E.

The Song of Solomon says My lover is mine, and I am his.

I think that she sees the man hidden in the onion, buried under all that armor plate of seemingly indifferent rudeness; the good man he ought to be.

He sees in her that which he is not - kind, pretty, caring, and a steady and loving influence which will complete him, for he knows that which he lacks.

As for their differences, what would you do for the person you love? Hm??? Would you change? I would and I have!
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Old 25-03-2013, 00:21
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Was watching Dr. Who: The End of Time last night and there was Margaret Ellingham disguised as a Time Lord! Sorry, it was Claire Bloom, playing a Time Lord... but time is all wibbly wobbly, timey wimey on the telly!
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Old 25-03-2013, 01:04
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For all of our "noodling" about how this thing will work out between LG and DE, think on this:

In S4 - E8 "The Wrong Goodbye" LG tells Isobel "No one knows what I see in him." What is that magic? Short word - four letters - one syllable - starts with an L ends with an E.

The Song of Solomon says My lover is mine, and I am his.

I think that she sees the man hidden in the onion, buried under all that armor plate of seemingly indifferent rudeness; the good man he ought to be.

He sees in her that which he is not - kind, pretty, caring, and a steady and loving influence which will complete him, for he knows that which he lacks.

As for their differences, what would you do for the person you love? Hm??? Would you change? I would and I have!
As usual, spot on,Rob. But, minor point, doesn't Louisa talk to Isobel in S3E7?
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Old 25-03-2013, 04:47
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Just watched S4E7 with Biff and we noticed a few things:

1. Pauline has the same nasty unappreciative mindset towards Al that LG sometimes has towards DM in S5. He goes to DM to kindly ask him to change her resume, and he's really good at what he says; DM is just intransigent. That was so nice of Al and so well said! Yet, Pauline blames Al for not doing a good job, instead of thanking him for trying as she is walking the puddle.

2. DM gets the letter of acceptance, however he has already gotten Chris to get a new doc for the clinic, as he tells Pauline. That is, DM was so confident of his getting the position after the communication with Dr. Dashwood, he contacted Chris that he is for sure leaving and got Chris to organize a new doc search. All this BEFORE he had his contract in hand. Also, the contract needed to be sent back within 31 days for it to be set, and we never do see DM sending it back to the hospital. Did he? We assume so, as he is told he'll have to wait six weeks for his job in S5, so it seems clear he accepted.

3. DM does not tell Edith he got the position. She tells him she wants him to mingle with others at the hotel to try to promote his getting the job, when he cuts open the bag of blood, and he does not mention, "Oh, I've got the job". Later, when she calls from the hotel, she is all excited that a woman doc on the Imperial Board will be there, and suggesting if DM speaks to her he'll have a better chance. He still does not say he already got the letter.

Why is he not telling her the good news? Why does he hold back?
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Old 25-03-2013, 05:03
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We've a pastie restaurant in Mesa, AZ!
I've heard about it some time back from a friend in Tempe and investigated it online. All this pasty talk got us in the mood, so we went to Pacific Pie Co. here to have one tonight. We have 2 other places I know of in Portland for them as well. Yum!

I bet pasties are on the menu during DM filming!
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Old 25-03-2013, 05:11
SusieSagitarius
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For all of our "noodling" about how this thing will work out between LG and DE, think on this:

In S4 - E8 "The Wrong Goodbye" LG tells Isobel "No one knows what I see in him." What is that magic? Short word - four letters - one syllable - starts with an L ends with an E.

The Song of Solomon says My lover is mine, and I am his.

I think that she sees the man hidden in the onion, buried under all that armor plate of seemingly indifferent rudeness; the good man he ought to be.

He sees in her that which he is not - kind, pretty, caring, and a steady and loving influence which will complete him, for he knows that which he lacks.


As for their differences, what would you do for the person you love? Hm??? Would you change? I would and I have!
Rob, you have such a way with words! Love it. I shall go to bed happy tonight.
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