Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 
 

Employer refusing to pay expenses...


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-04-2013, 00:13
jesse_pinkman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 489

I have a bit of a difficult situation with work, where the head of accounts is refusing to pay expenses on a job, because it wasn't budgeted.

I'm thinking I will get it eventually and she's just being a crazy bitch because she's like that. This woman also screams and swears at people and threw a pen at someone once...

However, if she refuses to pay, what legal rights do I have in this situation? The fact is, I'm not paying to work for my company! The difficulty is that she is the managing director's wife, so he knows all about this and turns a blind eye to it all (messed up situation and company, I know...).
jesse_pinkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 03-04-2013, 01:05
Clunk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3,107
I am not a legal expert, so just giving my two-penneth as it were...

What were the expenses for ?
How much was it ?
Were you required to incur these expenses in the conduct of your job (ie - did you just 'do' this on your own judgement, which leads to...)
Was there any agreement in place, before you spent your own money, that you would be reimbursed ?

In my opinion, if you have become out of pocket by doing something on behalf of your employer then you should be recompensed, but being entirely objective (in the absence of other details), if it was a case that you took it upon yourself to treat a client to lunch, without authority to do so, then you could be in a tricky position.

I do hope that makes sense.

In my own experience, I have always had clear guidelines of what could be claimed (including international travel, taxis, meals etc) before I have spent any money.
Clunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:48
jesse_pinkman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 489
Thanks Clunk.

Expenses were for a business trip to attend a presentation, totalled 650, including travel, hotel, meals. My manager had budgeted only 200, thinking we could travel on the day, but that wasn't possible in the end.

These are standard expenses claims, but because it's not been included on a cost form, the accounts woman is throwing a hissy. Seriously, I've never worked in a situation like this before, crazy woman...
jesse_pinkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 02:11
Clunk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3,107
Wow - no small amount of money (not that it really makes a difference, I guess).

Was the cost known before you 'paid out' ?

Like I said before, I am no legal beagle, but I am just trying to think how this would work out pursuant to a legal claim.

I am wondering (before someone jumps on me and says don't give advice if you don't 'know'), if it could get 'messy' for want of a better phrase, if it could be interpreted that you were not authorised to spend that much company money.

For example - a few years ago, working for a different company than I do now, I was asked to work abroad for a few days. When it came to settling the hotel bill it became apparent that the company credit card has not been approved by the hotel and that they understood that I would be paying.

I made sure, before paying the bill, that the company (my employer) were conversant with the full cost and had a fixed date of when they would reimburse me (ie, not the normal 'get it as expense in your next pay packet' deal). This happened on two trips abroad, and it was as well I was able to 'bail them out' as I wouldn't have been able to leave had I not paid up.

What I am getting at, in a round about way, is do you have evidence that you were authorised to spend that much company money (irrespective of budgets) before you elected to pay it out.

I am certain that more legally minded people than me will join this thread before long, and I emphasise again, this is just layman's thoughts, not 'advice'.

I really do hope that you do not end up out of pocket, when you were trying to do the right thing for the business.
Clunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:53
Gogfumble
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Swashbuckling on Melee Island.
Posts: 19,948
You need to get your line manager to authorise payment of your expenses and issue you with a form stating the correct amount.

Not the account ladies fault. She will be asked by her manager where the extra 450 went if she doesn't have an official company record of it.
Gogfumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:09
Hildas Hairnet
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 602
Was that just 1 overnight stay ? 650 seems a lot of money - I'd be querying this also.
Hildas Hairnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:28
fink
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Cursed Earth
Posts: 2,183
Thanks Clunk.

Expenses were for a business trip to attend a presentation, totalled 650, including travel, hotel, meals. My manager had budgeted only 200, thinking we could travel on the day, but that wasn't possible in the end.

These are standard expenses claims, but because it's not been included on a cost form, the accounts woman is throwing a hissy. Seriously, I've never worked in a situation like this before, crazy woman...
Have you submitted all your receipts to show your expenditure? It sounds like a mere administration issue to overcome regarding the correct pro-forma.
fink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:32
starsailor
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,439
Was that just 1 overnight stay ? 650 seems a lot of money - I'd be querying this also.
Yeah I think it depends on the nature of the expenses. 650 seems a lot, but depends on how many people and for how long.

I'd be rather annoyed if I was an expenses checker, and it a night in a 5 star expensive hotel, with expensive meals and drinks etc, It when they could have stayed in a cheaper hotel and had a cheaper meal. It depends on the policy of the company.
starsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:40
Noddy1969
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 30
Was that just 1 overnight stay ? 650 seems a lot of money - I'd be querying this also.
Quite. If one of my guys at work had presented this kind of bill for a single overnight stay I'd be inclined to throw a pen. Not AT anyone, though

It does depend on where you're staying, though. I know what the hotel bills in London can be like from experience....
Noddy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:56
smudges dad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort William and Aberdeen
Posts: 15,287
650 for a trip including travel and hotels isn't too bad. As long as you have some record of having told senior people in advance you were going over night then it is tacit approval as they did not tell you not to go.
smudges dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:04
kittles
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,996
what does your companies expenses policy say? everywhere Ive worked there's been a policy which sets out how much is allowed for things like meals and hotels, how expenses are authorised and exceptions to the policy.

you talk about your manager - usually its your line manager who authorises expenses. have they authorised the 650?
kittles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:35
Keefy-boy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 8,287
650 for a trip including travel and hotels isn't too bad.
Cant see how you can possibly say that without more information. Was there a large train or plane fare? Was the 450 over-budget just due to the unexpected overnight stay? We haven't been told but If it was for 1 person it sounds superficially outrageous to me, but it depends to some extent on the culture and practice in the company. In most organisations employees are expected to incur only reasonable expenses for their subsistence unless specifically authorised otherwise.
Keefy-boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:39
grumpyscot
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 6,618
650 for a trip including travel and hotels isn't too bad. As long as you have some record of having told senior people in advance you were going over night then it is tacit approval as they did not tell you not to go.
Depends on where your company is based, and where the presentation was to be given.
E.G. Work in Edinburgh, presentation in London.
Travel to airport - 40 (return)
Flight to Luton - 250 (return)
Luton to London - 60 return
Hotel 120
Taxi to wherever presentation is to be given 20 (return)
Thats almost 500 before meals!
grumpyscot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 13:22
gemma-the-husky
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 12,414
i don't think you want to refer to the bosses wife as a "crazy bitch"

I take it this is a smallish company. you need to talk to the MD, I think. talking of sueing is ridiculous, unless you are changing jobs.
gemma-the-husky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 14:21
Philip Wales
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2,720
Can you tell us why the extra was incurred, why was the trip initially put down as a 1 day around trip, then turned into 2 days, was it weather, did you get stranded because of snow, or did you just feel the need to travel up the day before and not actually tell anyone?

For instance I have to attend exhibitions at the NEC etc, so being in South Wales I will travel up the day before, hotel overnight, then attend the show and return on the same day. In the past, some of the appointments have run on longer than expected, and I haven't even left the NEC by closing time, so I ring work to confirm I can stay an extra night etc.
Philip Wales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 15:24
mel1213
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manchester/Madrid
Posts: 8,336
Depends on where your company is based, and where the presentation was to be given.
E.G. Work in Edinburgh, presentation in London.
Travel to airport - 40 (return)
Flight to Luton - 250 (return)
Luton to London - 60 return
Hotel 120
Taxi to wherever presentation is to be given 20 (return)
Thats almost 500 before meals!
However, 350 of that is based on cost incurred by flying, which could easily be reduced in many ways, instead of the expensive transfer from Luton to London, use one of the many low cost shuttle services available;insted of flying, hire a car or take the train - just looking at a rail website I have seen that a return ticket Edinburgh to London for today (so no discounts for advance booking etc) can be purchased for 126 which would have you in the middle of London, no need for transfers etc and all at half the price. Instead of using a taxi to the presentation, use public transport, it's not like London doesn't have a decent system etcetc

If my company asks me to go on a trip, I will be given a budget for my expenses and it is my responsibility to justify any costs they think are excessive. They would expect me to utilize my expense account but they would expect me to be practical and cot effective too.
mel1213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 15:37
babinaba
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,067
However, 350 of that is based on cost incurred by flying, which could easily be reduced in many ways, instead of the expensive transfer from Luton to London, use one of the many low cost shuttle services available;insted of flying, hire a car or take the train - just looking at a rail website I have seen that a return ticket Edinburgh to London for today (so no discounts for advance booking etc) can be purchased for 126 which would have you in the middle of London, no need for transfers etc and all at half the price. Instead of using a taxi to the presentation, use public transport, it's not like London doesn't have a decent system etcetc

If my company asks me to go on a trip, I will be given a budget for my expenses and it is my responsibility to justify any costs they think are excessive. They would expect me to utilize my expense account but they would expect me to be practical and cot effective too.
I think it all depends on how much time you have - I often have to go down to London from Edinburgh, sometimes I can make it to my meeting on the train but sometimes it's just not viable and you have to fly (obviously this is based on this scenario and not the OPs as we don't have any more info), and sometimes I don't always get a lot of notice so having to take what's available flight wise could mean an extra cost. I often go for a meeting and come back the same day to save on hotel costs but there are instances when things are too early or too late that you just can't get travel back. Hiring a car - I would just refuse, there's no way I'd drive to London regardless of how much it saves, it wouldn't do my sanity any good.

Also re taxi's v public transport to get to where you're going, if you've got a lot of equipment + your luggage, handbag etc, and if it costs a lot of money, I would feel safer getting a taxi than public transport (this doesn't relate to me as I don't carry anything too expensive and nearly always use the tube when I'm in London)

We have a guideline for when we're booking travel and accommodation but there is the facility to go over that with a justified reason.
babinaba is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 15:40
Kiko H Fan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,261
I have a bit of a difficult situation with work, where the head of accounts is refusing to pay expenses on a job, because it wasn't budgeted.

I'm thinking I will get it eventually and she's just being a crazy bitch because she's like that. This woman also screams and swears at people and threw a pen at someone once...

However, if she refuses to pay, what legal rights do I have in this situation? The fact is, I'm not paying to work for my company! The difficulty is that she is the managing director's wife, so he knows all about this and turns a blind eye to it all (messed up situation and company, I know...).
Shove the 'legal rights'. Simply refuse to go on any more jobs unless expenses are promptly paid.
Kiko H Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 15:48
Yosemite
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern England
Posts: 3,819
Shove the 'legal rights'. Simply refuse to go on any more jobs unless expenses are promptly paid.
That's the spirit - just tell 'em, eh?

Unfortunately, adopting such a bolshy attitude could result in a visit to the local Jobcentre in the near future (as will calling the MD's wife a "crazy bitch" if he happens to learn of this thread).
Yosemite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 15:53
mel1213
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manchester/Madrid
Posts: 8,336
I think it all depends on how much time you have - I often have to go down to London from Edinburgh, sometimes I can make it to my meeting on the train but sometimes it's just not viable and you have to fly (obviously this is based on this scenario and not the OPs as we don't have any more info), and sometimes I don't always get a lot of notice so having to take what's available flight wise could mean an extra cost. I often go for a meeting and come back the same day to save on hotel costs but there are instances when things are too early or too late that you just can't get travel back. Hiring a car - I would just refuse, there's no way I'd drive to London regardless of how much it saves, it wouldn't do my sanity any good.

Also re taxi's v public transport to get to where you're going, if you've got a lot of equipment + your luggage, handbag etc, and if it costs a lot of money, I would feel safer getting a taxi than public transport (this doesn't relate to me as I don't carry anything too expensive and nearly always use the tube when I'm in London)

We have a guideline for when we're booking travel and accommodation but there is the facility to go over that with a justified reason.
Oh I agree that sometimes it's just not practical to use methods I suggested, but my point was that if I was the OP and my manager had budgeted 200 for my expenses, I would be looking at the best way to spend that money on transport/accommodation and unless I had justification like the ones you pointed out (awkward times/extra luggage/not practical to drive etc) I would be trying to keep costs down. Any time I have gone down the more expensive route and gone over budget - spending 350 on flights over 126 on trains, for example - then I have never had issues with my manager signing off on the expense because I have been able to justify them.

From the account the OP has given they haven't, yet, given enough information for us to work out whether they have justifiable reasons as to why their claim is so far above the budget. All we have to go on is the information that they spent 450 more than their budget but not what caused such a huge discrepancy.
mel1213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 15:56
iangrad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 768
Simple answer to the expenses problem is in future get the company to pre book all the travel and overnight accommodation on there credit card !
iangrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 21:34
jesse_pinkman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 489
i don't think you want to refer to the bosses wife as a "crazy bitch"

I take it this is a smallish company. you need to talk to the MD, I think. talking of sueing is ridiculous, unless you are changing jobs.
Lol okay, I've come back to this thread after a day and seen there's been a lot of responses...

Of course, I'd never refer to her in public as a 'crazy bitch'. I'd like to think I have a professional approach and attitude to my work, but this is the truth. Today this woman screamed and swore at someone about some photocopying...

Anyway, I went with my line manager and she paid for the majority of the expenses. 650 for a trip like this is quite normal I think. 2 single rooms at a premier inn, travel from London to Manchester peak hours, which isn't cheap either. Yes, this hadn't been budgeted correctly on cost forms, but that's no fault of my own, I didn't complete the cost forms... Both of us provided all evidence of receipts.

I'm not talking at all about suing, I don't want to do anything like that, just want to reiterate to them that legally they'd have to pay - I just hope that's the case...! Also, I don't want to be 200 out of pocket!
jesse_pinkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 21:35
jesse_pinkman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 489
Simple answer to the expenses problem is in future get the company to pre book all the travel and overnight accommodation on there credit card !
Yes, that would normally be the thing to do, only that we don't have access to a company credit card...
jesse_pinkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 21:37
jesse_pinkman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 489
Also, as I mentioned in my opening post, people have tried to talk to the MD about the crazy bitch, but he does nothing about it and acts like there's nothing wrong with her behaviour.

It's messed up I tell ya!
jesse_pinkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 21:39
Yosemite
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern England
Posts: 3,819
Of course, I'd never refer to her in public as a 'crazy bitch'.
Yet that is exactly what you have done (albeit on an anonymized basis).

EDIT - Now twice (post #24)
Yosemite is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:32.