Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 
 

Karren Brady fibbing about qualifications to get her first job


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26-04-2013, 05:49
Richard1960
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,248
Director of Sports Newspapers
Managing Director of Birmingham City Football Club
Chairman of Kerrang!
Seat on the board of Sport England
Non-Executive Director of Channel 4
Seat on the board of Arcadia Group
Non-Executive Director of Mothercare
Chairman of the 2018 England World Cup Bid Advisory Board
Vice Chairman of West Ham United Football Club

Now just a few of her business achievements are listed above, does it REALLY matter that she she said she had a degree when she didn't? I read a lot of CV's and I bet there is at least one lie/exhaggeration in all of them.. She is a very good businesswoman and a great advert for what women can achieve in business, regardless of what she put on her CV
Saying you had a degree when you had not is a blatant lie.

Yes she has done well but can you inmagine if a surgeon or a nurse lied about a degree to get a job they would be out on their ar-e if found out.
Richard1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 26-04-2013, 08:57
gilliedew
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,154
Director of Sports Newspapers
Managing Director of Birmingham City Football Club
Chairman of Kerrang!
Seat on the board of Sport England
Non-Executive Director of Channel 4
Seat on the board of Arcadia Group
Non-Executive Director of Mothercare
Chairman of the 2018 England World Cup Bid Advisory Board
Vice Chairman of West Ham United Football Club

Now just a few of her business achievements are listed above, does it REALLY matter that she she said she had a degree when she didn't? I read a lot of CV's and I bet there is at least one lie/exhaggeration in all of them.. She is a very good businesswoman and a great advert for what women can achieve in business, regardless of what she put on her CV
Quite honestly, how does she do all these jobs. It is obvious that they are only a few hours at a time, she couldnt possibly do more than turn up and let her name be used at the most.

I think this shows that she uses her name rather than doing a full days work at these positions. It is all about attending meetings and voting for other people efforts who have done all the leg work.

Still nice "work" if you can swing it.
gilliedew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 10:12
Saltydog1955
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,910
Saying you had a degree when you had not is a blatant lie.

Yes she has done well but can you inmagine if a surgeon or a nurse lied about a degree to get a job they would be out on their ar-e if found out.
As I said ^, there's a big difference between lying about a degree to get a job in an ad agency, and lying about one to get a job as a medical professional. The worse that could happen in an ad agency is that they'd find out, and perhaps you'd get fired. If you lied about a degree to get a job in a hospital, you might kill someone.
Saltydog1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 16:26
wakey
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,537
BIB I felt the same and Sugar gave him the job! It made a nonsense of the interviews on The Apprentice.

Just to add, for anyone who thinks KB would have gone to jail if S&S had found out about her lie on the CV; as long as she hadn't commited a criminal offence she wouldn't! The only action S&S could take was a civil action if they could find good reason.
I'm the one who mentioned jail and you will notice I made a distinction between CV and Job Application form. A CV is more of a pitch so its the companies job to weed out any lies and the worst that can happen is you get sacked UNLESS you break further laws. A Job Aplication is different though, its the company asking you specific questions and you expressly agree that the information provided is correct and does potentially carry a jail term.

She doesn't expressly state if she applied via CV or filling in an application form but as I said its bad enough openly admitting to telling lies on a CV but if it was a job application then she shouldn't be promoting doing that and should be treated like anyone else found guilty of doing so
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 16:34
Hollie_Louise
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somewhere Only I Know
Posts: 11,784
Quite honestly, how does she do all these jobs. It is obvious that they are only a few hours at a time, she couldnt possibly do more than turn up and let her name be used at the most.

I think this shows that she uses her name rather than doing a full days work at these positions. It is all about attending meetings and voting for other people efforts who have done all the leg work.

Still nice "work" if you can swing it.
These aren't all current jobs, they are jobs she has had since joining S&S, obviously her main line of work is the football clubs and as I said she speaks volumes for women in business and football.. I cant imagine 20 or 30 years ago a woman being appointed as the Chairman of the bid to host the Football World Cup

Saying you had a degree when you had not is a blatant lie.

Yes she has done well but can you inmagine if a surgeon or a nurse lied about a degree to get a job they would be out on their ar-e if found out.
As has been pointed out previously, as I'm sure your aware, there is a vast difference between saying you have a degree to get into an advertising agency and saying you have a degree to become a doctor or a nurse, somebody that lies on a CV in the medical profession should rightly be sacked because that puts peoples lives in dangers, she has done nothing of the sort, completely different situation
Hollie_Louise is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 17:23
gilliedew
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,154
These aren't all current jobs, they are jobs she has had since joining S&S, obviously her main line of work is the football clubs and as I said she speaks volumes for women in business and football.. I cant imagine 20 or 30 years ago a woman being appointed as the Chairman of the bid to host the Football World Cup



As has been pointed out previously, as I'm sure your aware, there is a vast difference between saying you have a degree to get into an advertising agency and saying you have a degree to become a doctor or a nurse, somebody that lies on a CV in the medical profession should rightly be sacked because that puts peoples lives in dangers, she has done nothing of the sort, completely different situation
You are right in the fact that she was appointed to these positions but the fact still remains she had help in getting to where she is by working for people associated to her family and using untruths to gain employment.

Many women would be good and don't have the initial leg up to management that she has had with her porno trade backers, who then dropped her into the football management arena. It is all connected and although she had to show them she was able, it was their businesses which gave her the many opportunities denied to others.
gilliedew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2013, 18:50
Cryolemon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Newark, Notts, UK
Posts: 5,747
The wording is interesting however, it does't say she lied on her CV but her job application and there is a significant difference.

If you lie on a CV its not illegal just unethical (although if you get the job there are some jobs where certain lies would make it illegal, for example claiming you had a medical degree when you don't when applying for a job as a doctor).

If you lie on an Application form however its a different matter and it is illegal as you are being asked specifically certain questions so answering incorrectly is fraud.

So if Karen Brady lied on a Application form then she should be sent to prison for this
If you believe an offence has been committed then report it to the police.
Cryolemon is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 00:39
ewoodie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,535
I'm the one who mentioned jail and you will notice I made a distinction between CV and Job Application form. A CV is more of a pitch so its the companies job to weed out any lies and the worst that can happen is you get sacked UNLESS you break further laws. A Job Aplication is different though, its the company asking you specific questions and you expressly agree that the information provided is correct and does potentially carry a jail term.

She doesn't expressly state if she applied via CV or filling in an application form but as I said its bad enough openly admitting to telling lies on a CV but if it was a job application then she shouldn't be promoting doing that and should be treated like anyone else found guilty of doing so
I do not condone lying on a CV or an application form but in the case of KB I don't believe that a criminal law was broken. So I don't see how you can claim she could go to jail.
ewoodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 01:58
Saltydog1955
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,910
I'm the one who mentioned jail and you will notice I made a distinction between CV and Job Application form. A CV is more of a pitch so its the companies job to weed out any lies and the worst that can happen is you get sacked UNLESS you break further laws. A Job Aplication is different though, its the company asking you specific questions and you expressly agree that the information provided is correct and does potentially carry a jail term.

She doesn't expressly state if she applied via CV or filling in an application form but as I said its bad enough openly admitting to telling lies on a CV but if it was a job application then she shouldn't be promoting doing that and should be treated like anyone else found guilty of doing so
You'd see her go to court for it?

Oh please. The judiciary has enough to cope with.
Saltydog1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 02:11
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,502
Oh please.

There's a world of difference between telling a fib about a qualification in order to get a job with an ad agency and lying about a medical qualification to get a job as a doctor or nurse. The worst that could happen with S&S would be that you'd be found out and either be disciplined or sacked, but if you lied about your qualifications to practice as a medical professional, someone could die as a result of your lies.
A lie is a lie. Willfully deceiving someone in order to obtain employment is the same, whether you're a ditch digger or medical examiner. Just because nobody died as a result of Karren Brady doesn't make her lie any better or worse than anyone else lying to get something or somewhere they wouldn't if they were honest.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1084921.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ob-jailed.html

See? But I guess because they didn't kill anyone, they shouldn't have been sentenced?

That's the problem with justice, I guess. It's meant to be just and unilateral but when even the public are going "Well I like her and she's worth a lot of money, give her a break" and then call for the heads of other public figures, it makes the whole thing ridiculous. "He's got a duckhouse we bought, he must lose his job but she's got nice legs and a pretty face, let her remain a free woman." It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so apparently true. That Jimmy Saville might have touched some kids and traumatised them but he fixed it for some little kids to have a nice day out, what's all the fuss about? He didn't kill anyone, he just lied for a long time. What's the big deal?



A lie is a lie. That's the problem.
Declan_Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 09:49
Saltydog1955
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,910
A lie is a lie. Willfully deceiving someone in order to obtain employment is the same, whether you're a ditch digger or medical examiner. Just because nobody died as a result of Karren Brady doesn't make her lie any better or worse than anyone else lying to get something or somewhere they wouldn't if they were honest.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1084921.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ob-jailed.html

See? But I guess because they didn't kill anyone, they shouldn't have been sentenced?

That's the problem with justice, I guess. It's meant to be just and unilateral but when even the public are going "Well I like her and she's worth a lot of money, give her a break" and then call for the heads of other public figures, it makes the whole thing ridiculous. "He's got a duckhouse we bought, he must lose his job but she's got nice legs and a pretty face, let her remain a free woman." It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so apparently true. That Jimmy Saville might have touched some kids and traumatised them but he fixed it for some little kids to have a nice day out, what's all the fuss about? He didn't kill anyone, he just lied for a long time. What's the big deal?



A lie is a lie. That's the problem.
BiB - an MP fiddling expenses is fiddling the taxpayer when they're supposed to be serving them. AFAIK Karren Brady hasn't fiddled cash out of anyone.

And quite how you can equate the Savile case with this is totally beyond me.

Saltydog1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 10:32
Cally's mum
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rainbow Valley
Posts: 3,058
BiB - an MP fiddling expenses is fiddling the taxpayer when they're supposed to be serving them. AFAIK Karren Brady hasn't fiddled cash out of anyone.

And quite how you can equate the Savile case with this is totally beyond me.

I'm finding all the outrage quite amusing, to be honest. I found the comments about her being prosecuted for lying on her CV to be absolutely hilarious!

Equating 'lying on a CV' or at a job interview to the Savile case also made me giggle.

There are other, far more important things in this world and in our lives to worry and get all faux outraged over than someone whose accomplishments (regardless of how she got her first job) now speak for themselves.

To be honest, I would rather someone who has common sense and 'street smarts' and knowledge of the actual job than someone with loads of qualifications who hasn't the faintest idea of it or how to manage people (or what those people below them actually DO). The public sector management is filled with the latter and most of them wouldn't know how to manage their way out of a paper bag; nor do they really understand the 'business' they're supposed to be managing. .
Cally's mum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 10:38
Saltydog1955
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,910
I'm finding all the outrage quite amusing, to be honest. I found the comments about her being prosecuted for lying on her CV to be absolutely hilarious!

Equating 'lying on a CV' or at a job interview to the Savile case also made me giggle.

There are other, far more important things in this world and in our lives to worry and get all faux outraged over than someone whose accomplishments (regardless of how she got her first job) now speak for themselves.

To be honest, I would rather someone who has common sense and 'street smarts' and knowledge of the actual job than someone with loads of qualifications who hasn't the faintest idea of it or how to manage people (or what those people below them actually DO). The public sector management is filled with the latter and most of them wouldn't know how to manage their way out of a paper bag; nor do they really understand the 'business' they're supposed to be managing. .
I know - it's hilarious!

Do people honestly think that the CPS would think this was worth prosecuting and spending thousands of pounds in taking it to court when law and police services are being cut back?

I think they need to get real.
Saltydog1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 10:49
The H
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 22
BIB I felt the same and Sugar gave him the job! It made a nonsense of the interviews on The Apprentice.

Just to add, for anyone who thinks KB would have gone to jail if S&S had found out about her lie on the CV; as long as she hadn't commited a criminal offence she wouldn't! The only action S&S could take was a civil action if they could find good reason.
ewoodie, with respect that's completely wrong.

Lying on your CV used to be covered under Section 16 of the Theft Act 1968 - "Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception". A whole section of this - s16.2(c) if you're interested - was dedicated to people who claimed to have qualifications which were false and were employed as a result. The potential penalty was a prison term of up to five years. The criminal offence, if proven, was the act of lying on your CV.

The Theft Act was repealed and replaced by the Fraud Act 2006. Lying on your CV to get a job is now very comprehensively covered by Section 2 of that Act. The penalty on indictment is now up to ten years in prison.

I make no comment whatsoever on whether KB is guilty of anything.
The H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 10:54
The H
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 22
I know - it's hilarious!

Do people honestly think that the CPS would think this was worth prosecuting and spending thousands of pounds in taking it to court when law and police services are being cut back?

I think they need to get real.
So I take it you wouldn't have bothered about prosecuting Chris Huhne or Jeffrey Archer then? And you wouldn't have prosecuted any of the MP's who lied on their expenses claims?
The H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 12:37
Cally's mum
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rainbow Valley
Posts: 3,058
So I take it you wouldn't have bothered about prosecuting Chris Huhne or Jeffrey Archer then? And you wouldn't have prosecuted any of the MP's who lied on their expenses claims?
Again, as pointed out earlier, fiddling on expenses (ie obtaining MONEY under fraud) is a quite different prospect than simply saying you have qualifications you have not simply to get a job.

And there are far worthier crimes to worry about than someone getting a job by fibbing. I think I'll save any concern I have for them.
Cally's mum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 12:41
The H
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 22
Again, as pointed out earlier, fiddling on expenses (ie obtaining MONEY under fraud) is a quite different prospect than simply saying you have qualifications you have not simply to get a job.

And there are far worthier crimes to worry about than someone getting a job by fibbing. I think I'll save any concern I have for them.
Ah, sorry, misunderstanding. I thought we were talking about jobs where you get paid MONEY to which you're not entitled because you lied to get it.
The H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 12:42
gilliedew
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,154
I'm finding all the outrage quite amusing, to be honest. I found the comments about her being prosecuted for lying on her CV to be absolutely hilarious!

Equating 'lying on a CV' or at a job interview to the Savile case also made me giggle.

There are other, far more important things in this world and in our lives to worry and get all faux outraged over than someone whose accomplishments (regardless of how she got her first job) now speak for themselves.

To be honest, I would rather someone who has common sense and 'street smarts' and knowledge of the actual job than someone with loads of qualifications who hasn't the faintest idea of it or how to manage people (or what those people below them actually DO). The public sector management is filled with the latter and most of them wouldn't know how to manage their way out of a paper bag; nor do they really understand the 'business' they're supposed to be managing. .
I agree with that there are more important things to be overly concerned about.

You make the point that the university of life is more important than someone who has qualifications.

I used to think that until I went to college as a mature student. I had worked in my industry for many years and knew most things about hands on work by doing it for so long.

What I didn't know about was how to look beyond only the one skill set needed and learn the over view of how it was achieved, why, how it should be, how to budget how to know what Health and Safety laws needed to be understood, employment contracts and the law, on and on and on.

So don't think that college learning is irrelevant as until you actually take the course, you are unaware of what it involves and common sense is only a limited part of it.
gilliedew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 13:24
Cally's mum
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rainbow Valley
Posts: 3,058
Ah, sorry, misunderstanding. I thought we were talking about jobs where you get paid MONEY to which you're not entitled because you lied to get it.
Even if you're great at your job? Anyway, I expect that she will be arrested any day now then for doing so.

I agree with that there are more important things to be overly concerned about.

You make the point that the university of life is more important than someone who has qualifications.

I used to think that until I went to college as a mature student. I had worked in my industry for many years and knew most things about hands on work by doing it for so long.

What I didn't know about was how to look beyond only the one skill set needed and learn the over view of how it was achieved, why, how it should be, how to budget how to know what Health and Safety laws needed to be understood, employment contracts and the law, on and on and on.

So don't think that college learning is irrelevant as until you actually take the course, you are unaware of what it involves and common sense is only a limited part of it.
But you had already done your job and went back to college to enhance your knowledge. I'm talking about people coming straight out of university with degrees up to their necks who have never worked with people, never managed, never worked in the industry then getting top management jobs because of said degrees - without the common sense and people skills (and knowledge of how the business actually works).

As I say, the pubic sector is chock full of these people - setting and adhering to targets without any real sense of how they're going to be achieved or spending ludicrous amounts of money to save tuppence - not having any instinct for guiding people to do a better job and make the 'business' successful.... or maybe the public sector just attracts the worst graduates and the best ones (those with common sense, people skills and a sense of how things are actually achieved) go into the private sector!
Cally's mum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 14:54
gilliedew
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,154
Even if you're great at your job? Anyway, I expect that she will be arrested any day now then for doing so.



But you had already done your job and went back to college to enhance your knowledge. I'm talking about people coming straight out of university with degrees up to their necks who have never worked with people, never managed, never worked in the industry then getting top management jobs because of said degrees - without the common sense and people skills (and knowledge of how the business actually works).

As I say, the pubic sector is chock full of these people - setting and adhering to targets without any real sense of how they're going to be achieved or spending ludicrous amounts of money to save tuppence - not having any instinct for guiding people to do a better job and make the 'business' successful.... or maybe the public sector just attracts the worst graduates and the best ones (those with common sense, people skills and a sense of how things are actually achieved) go into the private sector!
Actually, it is advisable to come out of college with the knowledge and then learn on the job. There are few pre conceptions or bad practice picked up in other companies as every company works along different lines/strategies, it is helpful to be aware of them. Why do people think that a university degree means that they should be able to do the job straight away, they should be on the first rung of the management ladder and progress from there.

Sadly there has been an old boys networking in business for many a year but also as in Karen Bradys case, family connections/associates also works in that closed shop environment for employment leaps for the fortunate few, never mind the experience.

These people who do the things you describe, they have to stick to the company line, whatever their common sense tells them, they may not have the freedom to do what they wish to do after the criteria for the job has been set, there are good and bad in most jobs.

If you had been studying for three years and were offered a top job, well you would grab it, so it is the system which is faulty rather than the person who succeeds within it.

Thanks for the discussion, having been on both sides, I do understand your points of view.
gilliedew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 15:27
The H
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 22
Even if you're great at your job? Anyway, I expect that she will be arrested any day now then for doing so.
Put it this way. If someone is prepared to lie on a document to get a job, then as an employer if I found out about it would I really trust that someone with confidential information? Or money? No, of course I wouldn't. I would never be able to trust them with anything.

Being good at your job is fine, but if you lied to get it then you've no respect due.
The H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 15:44
ewoodie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,535
ewoodie, with respect that's completely wrong.

Lying on your CV used to be covered under Section 16 of the Theft Act 1968 - "Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception". A whole section of this - s16.2(c) if you're interested - was dedicated to people who claimed to have qualifications which were false and were employed as a result. The potential penalty was a prison term of up to five years. The criminal offence, if proven, was the act of lying on your CV.

The Theft Act was repealed and replaced by the Fraud Act 2006. Lying on your CV to get a job is now very comprehensively covered by Section 2 of that Act. The penalty on indictment is now up to ten years in prison.

I make no comment whatsoever on whether KB is guilty of anything.
If that is correct and it looks like it, then I accept it. It seems far more likely than other explanations given here.
ewoodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2013, 16:17
ewoodie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,535
Even if you're great at your job? Anyway, I expect that she will be arrested any day now then for doing so.



But you had already done your job and went back to college to enhance your knowledge. I'm talking about people coming straight out of university with degrees up to their necks who have never worked with people, never managed, never worked in the industry then getting top management jobs because of said degrees - without the common sense and people skills (and knowledge of how the business actually works).

As I say, the pubic sector is chock full of these people - setting and adhering to targets without any real sense of how they're going to be achieved or spending ludicrous amounts of money to save tuppence - not having any instinct for guiding people to do a better job and make the 'business' successful.... or maybe the public sector just attracts the worst graduates and the best ones (those with common sense, people skills and a sense of how things are actually achieved) go into the private sector!
Some people without the relevant skills and/or education manage to get on by creeping to the boss/es. I worked in FE and was amazed that they employed a number of people to teach/support English and maths when they did not have the relevant skills and/or education to do so.

The biggest creeep of the lot was a woman who didn't have a clue about maths and was dyslexic. It's sad about the dyslexia but it was obvious this inhibited her from doing her job. The quality of her work with the students was abysmal. But she sure knew how to smile and suck up to the boss/es! Guess what? First she was promoted to the post of super teacher with a massive pay increase. After getting her PGCE FE she had just 1 year's teaching experience and then moved to a support role! After that she was ;promoted to deputy head of a department with no doubt another massive pay increase.

She was thoroughly disliked throughout the college by her colleagues - the other lecturers and support staff. There's nothing and no-one she wouldn't have trodden and snitched on to get where she did. Everyone was convinced it was because she was always creeping round her HOD, a director and the principal as she sure didn't have the skills required. Thank goodness I'm not in that environment any longer!

Having the right education, skills, ability or experience don't always get people good promotions.
ewoodie is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:32.