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Weird question but which housemates do you or have you missed?


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Old 04-05-2013, 20:46
loveloveX
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I really missed maysoon after she left and I didn't expect that and even now as I'm watching the series again, I miss her presence after she's gone so much. I loved her friendship with Sara, all of them really, she had stu and dale and bex figured out and she didnt play it how they wanted her to. I just saw where dale and stu are practically interrogating her and how she kept and cool and answered articulately that they got even more flustered.
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Old 04-05-2013, 20:50
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I really missed maysoon after she left and I didn't expect that and even now as I'm watching the series again, I miss her presence after she's gone so much. I loved her friendship with Sara, all of them really, she had stu and dale and bex figured out and she didnt play it how they wanted her to. I just saw where dale and stu are practically interrogating her and how she kept and cool and answered articulately that they got even more flustered.
Maysoon was good, possibly the most underrated housemate ever.
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Old 04-05-2013, 20:52
meglosmurmurs
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Rachel might have been a nice person, but she was a pointless housemate who brought nothing to the house.
I loved it how she got almost everyone in the house debating about her character. She became a hot topic for discussion, which makes her a pretty significant housemate in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 04-05-2013, 21:13
loveloveX
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Maysoon was good, possibly the most underrated housemate ever.
I know, I loved her I regret that her and Sara never got to become a unbeatable duo which was my dream for them. I'm still happy they had whatever friendship they did even for a short time and see how not one housemate actually did have a bad word to say about her.
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Old 04-05-2013, 22:35
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I see this a lot, and I 100% disagree everytime. I certainly remember being entertained by Rachel, both with her fun, optimistic nature, and how she held her own against those who disliked her.

As for sitting on the fence, she was one of only two housemates to speak up against Alexandra during Chipgate, and she also told Jennifer and Rebecca what she thought of them at a later point, but this instance was only seen on the live feed.
It was in the HL show, but in very truncated form!
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Old 04-05-2013, 23:41
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Rachel might have been a nice person, but she was a pointless housemate who brought nothing to the house.
We may in agreement on our appreciation of BB4, but I sadly don't agree with you about Rachel.

As well as being so lovely and never going round behind people's backs as I have previously said in this thread, I think she handled herself impeccably.

Also, she was the topic of many a discussion in there about how she was fake and that nobody could really be that nice, (etc). When someone said this to her, she just said, "Okay, that's fine. That's your opinion and I respect that." If someone just said to her that they thought something bad of her, it didn't bother her at all. She had incredibly thick skin and was totally comfortable with herself, so it didn't matter if someone thought negatively of her.

However, there were times when people like Rex went too far with it. When he was quite nasty to her, she never fought back. She didn't shout at him or say anything nasty to him in retaliation. I remember when she chose Hell's cake over his. He literally had a go at her about it for hours. But she never lost it with him. Yes, she looked upset as how she was being treated, but she never went shouting the odds with him or telling him to leave her alone. And for someone to have that much pressure on her and never to retaliate, I think that shows us just how incredibly mentally strong she was.

I think these are just some of the qualities that made her a great BB character.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:08
Veri
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...
As for sitting on the fence, she was one of only two housemates to speak up against Alexandra during Chipgate, and she also told Jennifer and Rebecca what she thought of them at a later point, but this instance was only seen on the live feed.
I don't think that long, tedious talk with Bex and Jen really lives up the the description "told Jennifer and Rebecca what she thought of them" which sounds much more direct and forceful.

And there was something fence-sitting about Rachel, occasional examples of her picking a side notwithstanding. Indeed, sometimes when she expressed an opinion, it was one that got her out of expressing a bunch of other ones. (Example: when she said that what Mario and Steph said about their relationship was good enough for her.)

We may in agreement on our appreciation of BB4, but I sadly don't agree with you about Rachel.

As well as being so lovely and never going round behind people's backs as I have previously said in this thread, I think she handled herself impeccably.

Also, she was the topic of many a discussion in there about how she was fake and that nobody could really be that nice, (etc). When someone said this to her, she just said, "Okay, that's fine. That's your opinion and I respect that." If someone just said to her that they thought something bad of her, it didn't bother her at all. She had incredibly thick skin and was totally comfortable with herself, so it didn't matter if someone thought negatively of her.

However, there were times when people like Rex went too far with it. When he was quite nasty to her, she never fought back. She didn't shout at him or say anything nasty to him in retaliation. I remember when she chose Hell's cake over his. He literally had a go at her about it for hours. But she never lost it with him. Yes, she looked upset as how she was being treated, but she never went shouting the odds with him or telling him to leave her alone. And for someone to have that much pressure on her and never to retaliate, I think that shows us just how incredibly mentally strong she was.

I think these are just some of the qualities that made her a great BB character.
I don't think I've ever seen having 'incredibly thick skin' presented as a good quality before.

And it's interesting that Rachel is seen both as incredibly mentally strong and as unable to consistently present a misleading impression of herself.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:26
ABCZYX
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And there was something fence-sitting about Rachel, occasional examples of her picking a side notwithstanding. Indeed, sometimes when she expressed an opinion, it was one that got her out of expressing a bunch of other ones. (Example: when she said that what Mario and Steph said about their relationship was good enough for her.)
I don't understand. How can saying that get her out of expressing other opinions?

I don't think I've ever seen having 'incredibly thick skin' presented as a good quality before.
It shows that she's very confident in herself and it doesn't really bother her if people think badly of her. Providing that this confidence doesn't turn into arrogance, (which it clearly hasn't with Rachel), then I think that's a good quality.

And it's interesting that Rachel is seen both as incredibly mentally strong and as unable to consistently present a misleading impression of herself.
Again, I don't understand. What do you mean by "unable to consistently present a misleading impression of herself"?
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:32
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I don't understand. How can saying that get her out of expressing other opinions?
It was how she took herself out of the discussions and speculations. Rather than have to express opinions on all of the different things that made Alexandra suspicious, for example, she had that one opinion that what Mario and Steph said about their relationship was good enough for her.

It shows that she's very confident in herself and it doesn't really bother her if people think badly of her. Providing that this confidence doesn't turn into arrogance, (which it clearly hasn't with Rachel), then I think that's a good quality.
Think skinned and confident are rather different.

Again, I don't understand. What do you mean by "unable to consistently present a misleading impression of herself"?
What it says. It's like the idea that a HM couldn't "act" throughout their time in BB because sooner or later they'd slip up.
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:44
ABCZYX
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It was how she took herself out of the discussions and speculations. Rather than have to express opinions on all of the different things that made Alexandra suspicious, for example, she had that one opinion that what Mario and Steph said about their relationship was good enough for her.
With all due respect, you can't really know that for sure. What Mario and Steph said about their relationship may indeed have been good enough for her.

Think skinned and confident are rather different.
How so? I don't really think that someone would be thick skinned, but not confident. If someone is confident, that means that they're sure of themselves. I don't think that someone can be thick skinned, but not be a confident person.

What it says. It's like the idea that a HM couldn't "act" throughout their time in BB because sooner or later they'd slip up.
But they would. I've said that before on here. Rachel was probably one of the most consistent people in that house. She never changed who she was, and when BB9 finished, she was the same lovely, sweet natured, down to earth girl that entered the house 93 days earlier.

I think there's a lot more evidence to suggest that Rachel was the same person in the house from start to finish than there is that says that she was fake, changed in the house, (etc).
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Old 08-05-2013, 17:19
Veri
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With all due respect, you can't really know that for sure. What Mario and Steph said about their relationship may indeed have been good enough for her.
Of course I can't know for sure, and I don't think I even said she didn't genuinely find it enough. Still, staying out of the conversations where HMs voice their suspicions can make it easier to keep thinking that what Mario and Steph say is good enough, and it means you don't have to keep expressing opinions on the theories, evidence, etc.

At the time, Rachel's response seemed very reasonable. The HMs who were suspicious were a somewhat unpleasant bunch, and the HMs in B-Block -- I mean the ones who had that bedroom -- stayed out of it too. And it was picking a side (it was siding with Steph and Mario), though in a low key way that didn't get much reaction.

Besides, what's really so bad about 'fence-sitting' anyway? Staying out of something can be the best course of action, and being able to see both sides a virtue. I'd rather a HM did some judicious so-called 'fence-sitting' than keep butting in, or making conflicts worse, or expressing ill-informed opinions.

However, as time went on, and it emerged that there were large areas where Rachel would not express an opinion (to an extent I don't think has been seen in UK BB before or since), and where she seemed very uncomfortable when pressed; and when she spent so much time 'happy housing' and gushing over caterpillars and so on; and when HMs were claiming she'd been very different in auditions, and her VT suggested that too, it started to seem that Rachel might be trying hard to avoid saying things that might be controversial or that viewers or HMs might take exception to, and that she might be doing that as a BB tactic or strategy.

And then it was possible to look back and think, hmm, she didn't take a very strong stand during 'spit-gate' (compare Mario, Mo before the spitting, Darnell after), and she didn't get involved when HMs were voicing opinions of Steph and Mario (not joining in the suspicions, but not taking a strong stand against them either), and she seemed happiest and chattiest when talking about nothings with Belinda*3, and when she did 'confront' the 'whisper club' it was in a low key, drawn out what that didn't anger them, and did she ever confront Luke?

Sure, there are arguments against that way of seeing things, and people often say things against her that are clearly wrong (for instance, that she always sat on the fence or never expressed opinions or never did anything), and Rachel did, for example, get a lot of nominations (though I don't think that really shows she wasn't trying to fly under the radar), and so on. But it seems to me that there's a question mark over her and that it has not been removed.

How so? I don't really think that someone would be thick skinned, but not confident. If someone is confident, that means that they're sure of themselves. I don't think that someone can be thick skinned, but not be a confident person.
Even if that were right (which is doubtful), it's only half of the picture. You're saying someone who's thick skinned is confident, but that doesn't mean everyone who's confident is thick skinned. Also consider that 'confident' is generally considered a positive quality, and 'thick-skinned' at least less so, which means people don't see them as the same. 'Thick-skinned' seems more like insensitive, perhaps even callous or uncaring, than like confident.

(Notice that when you said "If someone is confident, that means that ...", it ended "they're sure of themselves" and not "they're thick-skinned".)

Anyway, it's a minor point. We could just say "forget about 'thick-skinned', then" since you could make the point you want to make using "confident" or something else instead.

Except ... someone who's confident can still care what people think of them. They may, for example, want to try to persuade those who disagree with them, want to understand why they think as they do, or even be hurt. Even without the 'thick-skinned' part, your description of Rachel made her sound a bit uncaring and indifferent, at least to me, and a response such as "Okay, that's fine. That's your opinion and I respect that" can seem patronising and dismissive.

However, I don't think Rachel was all that sure of herself. When Rex put her on the spot about opinions, for example, she seemed very uncomfortable and unsure how to respond. And didn't both Alexandra and Rex have her in tears in the DR? (That's also relevant re how mentally strong she was.)

But they would. I've said that before on here. Rachel was probably one of the most consistent people in that house. She never changed who she was, and when BB9 finished, she was the same lovely, sweet natured, down to earth girl that entered the house 93 days earlier.

I think there's a lot more evidence to suggest that Rachel was the same person in the house from start to finish than there is that says that she was fake, changed in the house, (etc).
Would they? This thread, for example, People can be 'fake' for months on end, thinks otherwise; and if the HM is mentally strong, that should make it easier.

I think it's interesting that people think Rachel was mentally strong and also that she couldn't -- wasn't able to, not just didn't -- consistently present a misleading impression of herself.

I agree, btw, that Rachel didn't change in the house (at least not after the first day or so), but I don't think changing in the house has often been the accusation.
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Old 08-05-2013, 23:44
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Of course I can't know for sure, and I don't think I even said she didn't genuinely find it enough. Still, staying out of the conversations where HMs voice their suspicions can make it easier to keep thinking that what Mario and Steph say is good enough, and it means you don't have to keep expressing opinions on the theories, evidence, etc.

At the time, Rachel's response seemed very reasonable. The HMs who were suspicious were a somewhat unpleasant bunch, and the HMs in B-Block -- I mean the ones who had that bedroom -- stayed out of it too. And it was picking a side (it was siding with Steph and Mario), though in a low key way that didn't get much reaction.

Besides, what's really so bad about 'fence-sitting' anyway? Staying out of something can be the best course of action, and being able to see both sides a virtue. I'd rather a HM did some judicious so-called 'fence-sitting' than keep butting in, or making conflicts worse, or expressing ill-informed opinions.

However, as time went on, and it emerged that there were large areas where Rachel would not express an opinion (to an extent I don't think has been seen in UK BB before or since), and where she seemed very uncomfortable when pressed; and when she spent so much time 'happy housing' and gushing over caterpillars and so on; and when HMs were claiming she'd been very different in auditions, and her VT suggested that too, it started to seem that Rachel might be trying hard to avoid saying things that might be controversial or that viewers or HMs might take exception to, and that she might be doing that as a BB tactic or strategy.
I've posted a link to it before, but Rachel's mother has said on here that her VT was recorded just after she found out she was going in the house: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...7&postcount=38

I don't think her VT was THAT different to how she was in the house. Yes, there were times when she was subdued, but the "VT Rachel" that people refer to, came out when she was happiest.

One thing I'd like to point out is that the Rachel we saw on Day 1 is in my eyes, no different to the Rachel we saw in her VT. She was happy, chatty, bubbly and hyper. And I've noticed that you posted in her appreciation thread at the start of the series. So does that mean that you didn't think she was any different either?

[And then it was possible to look back and think, hmm, she didn't take a very strong stand during 'spit-gate' (compare Mario, Mo before the spitting, Darnell after)
It wasn't a "strong" stand, but she did tell Dennis that he was wrong to spit at Mo. And also, before the spitting happened, Luke said that Rex had smudged the picture with pizza, and she said he hadn't:

Chinese whispers or what ... Luke says to Rachel: "He shouldn't have smeared pizza all over her painting ..." He didn't!
Rachel replies: "He tried to make the hair bigger with a bit of water which he shouldn't have, he didn't put pizza anywhere near it, where'd you get that from?"
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1353020.ece

She may not have taken as big a stand as people like Darnell, but at least she spoke out, compared to some others who stayed silent.

Even if that were right (which is doubtful), it's only half of the picture. You're saying someone who's thick skinned is confident, but that doesn't mean everyone who's confident is thick skinned. Also consider that 'confident' is generally considered a positive quality, and 'thick-skinned' at least less so, which means people don't see them as the same. 'Thick-skinned' seems more like insensitive, perhaps even callous or uncaring, than like confident.

(Notice that when you said "If someone is confident, that means that ...", it ended "they're sure of themselves" and not "they're thick-skinned".)
I didn't say that confidence and being thick-skinned were the same. I just said that I don't think someone can be thick-skinned, but not confident.

Anyway, it's a minor point. We could just say "forget about 'thick-skinned', then" since you could make the point you want to make using "confident" or something else instead.

Except ... someone who's confident can still care what people think of them. They may, for example, want to try to persuade those who disagree with them, want to understand why they think as they do, or even be hurt. Even without the 'thick-skinned' part, your description of Rachel made her sound a bit uncaring and indifferent, at least to me, and a response such as "Okay, that's fine. That's your opinion and I respect that" can seem patronising and dismissive.
Rachel was surely too lovely to be patronising and dismissive. When she said she respected their opinion, she did respect it. She always respected people who said what they thought to their face, which was why she still said towards the end that she still liked Rex, because he said what he thought to her face, even though he was really horrible to her sometimes.

However, I don't think Rachel was all that sure of herself. When Rex put her on the spot about opinions, for example, she seemed very uncomfortable and unsure how to respond. And didn't both Alexandra and Rex have her in tears in the DR? (That's also relevant re how mentally strong she was.)
Rachel was mentally strong, but she wasn't, for want of a better word, unbreakable. She cried during Chigate and was shocked at Alex's aggressiveness:

The housemates asked Rebecca and Rachel if they were feeling alright after the argument, and they both said they were. Rebecca told Dennis that she thought the argument was partly because she and Rachel weren't used to people outside their comfort zones, and added that she didn't come into the house to argue.

Rachel agreed, telling some of the housemates: "I'm not used to it. Where I live, people talk. You don't shout."
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s149/...-argument.html

And with Rex, when he said that he thought she was different in the outside world, she got upset and explained why to him:

Rachel explained that she had been upset because it felt like the person she thought knew her the best was "doubting" her.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s149/...iscussion.html

Would they? This thread, for example, People can be 'fake' for months on end, thinks otherwise; and if the HM is mentally strong, that should make it easier.
That's completely different. Rachel's mother explains here:

It is possible to live two lives but you have missed the point these people don't do it 24/7. The son's of the canoe wife lived independently of their mother so she didn't not have to keep up any pretense for long periods and secondly we only have their word that they weren't in on the scam and that their denial wasn't just a desperate bid to avoid facing prison.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...1&postcount=13

I agree, btw, that Rachel didn't change in the house (at least not after the first day or so), but I don't think changing in the house has often been the accusation.
No, I don't think it is. The accusation of Rachel "changing in the house" is that she was apparently different in the auditions/the outside world than she was in the house. But to me, the fact that I think she was one of the most consistent people in that house says to me that this accusation is completely untrue.
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Old 08-05-2013, 23:58
SG-1
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Some people I would love to have seen more of were
Lauren BB13
Lydia BB13
Steph BB9

Im pretty sure I would have been friends with these HMs if I was in the house,being from liverpool I would have a connection to steph and Lauren.
Lydia is really nice on twitter and in the house I found her to be interesting,different,and fun.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:06
Veri
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I've posted a link to it before, but Rachel's mother has said on here that her VT was recorded just after she found out she was going in the house...
Doesn't the VT have things from more than one time? It's been ages since I last watched it.

Anyway, the quote from Rachel's mother is explaining why she was different in the VT, not saying she wasn't different.

And I've noticed that you posted in her appreciation thread at the start of the series. So does that mean that you didn't think she was any different either?
No.

I didn't say that confidence and being thick-skinned were the same. I just said that I don't think someone can be thick-skinned, but not confident.
OK, but when I said "thick skinned and confident are rather different", you replied "How so?" as if (it seemed to me) you thought they weren't.

In any case, I don't think it's true that everyone who's thick-skinned is confident, and I don't think you've given any reason why you "don't think someone can be thick-skinned, but not confident."

Someone can be thick-skinned, and not care what others think of them, because they're insensitive, callous, or uncaring, for example, rather than confident. They could then be thick-skinned without being confident, unless you think insensitivity is a form of confidence, or something like that. (I certainly don't think it's a form of confidence.)

Rachel was surely too lovely to be patronising and dismissive. When she said she respected their opinion, she did respect it. She always respected people who said what they thought to their face, which was why she still said towards the end that she still liked Rex, because he said what he thought to her face, even though he was really horrible to her sometimes.
In her long talk with Jen and Bex, she seemed patronising and passive aggressive at times, and it did not look like she actually respected their opinion or indeed even tried to understand how things seemed from their point of view.

Rachel was mentally strong, but she wasn't, for want of a better word, unbreakable. She cried during Chigate and was shocked at Alex's aggressiveness:
I think Rex had her in tears more than once as well. But tears weren't the only reason (or even the only reason I mentioned) for thinking she wasn't especially strong mentally.

However, I think that the question of how mentally strong she was, unlike most Rachel-related issues, hasn't been discussed very much, so I'll try to think some more about it.

That's completely different. Rachel's mother explains here:
I meant the thread, not just (or even primarily) the first post in it.

In another post in that thread, Jaycee6 tried this argument:
BB previously put an actress called Amy into the house to pretend that she was from the Australian BB. She couldn't keep it up 24/7 for more than a couple of days before she the cracks began to show - despite them giving her a room of her own where she could relax and be herself. BB7 I think.

Also in the world of theatre I can remember something about a group of prominent actors (can't remember who it was but I could research it if needed) who tried to keep a play going for days and they failed to keep in character 24/7
Think it was for the guiness book of records or to raise money for charity
The actress (Thaila Zucchi), who wasn't called Amy, was trying to be someone with a very different background who also had to speak with a different accent. So of course that was hard to keep up. The actors trying to keep "in character" had a similar sort of problem. But that isn't what Rachel would have to do, as some posts in that thread and elsewhere have tried to explain.

It's not like Rachel would be doing something like pretending to be a Tory MP. It would just be doing things like (quoting from Alrightmate's posts) "accentuating certain parts of your personality whilst holding other parts back" or "being more reserved and holding back for the most part." And:
...
You don't have to keep it up 24/7 for weeks on end. You just have to do it in little bits.
You just exaggerate a bit here, and hold back a bit there. It's really not hard. You don't have to walk around all day performing an act. You don't have to do it when you sleep, you don't have to do it when you eat, you don't have to do it when you drink a cup of tea, and you don't even have to do it during most conversations. You just have to do it in little bits here and there in order to create an impression.
...
Bear in mind that you said that she wouldn't be able to keep it up...what makes you think that she has?
Haven't many people already suspected that she may be 'acting' a bit already? Wouldn't this imply that she may not have been able to keep it up if some people believe that they have caught her out?
...
If someone set out on such a course, they could stand a good chance of success, especially if they were mentally strong.

No, I don't think it is. The accusation of Rachel "changing in the house" is that she was apparently different in the auditions/the outside world than she was in the house. But to me, the fact that I think she was one of the most consistent people in that house says to me that this accusation is completely untrue.
I can't work out quite what you're saying there, but you seem to be saying that consistency in the house means she also wasn't different outside. If so, that just seems to be the acting point again.
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Old 10-05-2013, 23:19
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Having rewatched the big mouth show after rachel won, it's quite uncomfortable because they are out of the house they won't have to see rachel again but most of them can't find any decency to be nice even a bit to her or about her. I think in the shows I've seen after the final even aaron and anton spoke to each other on bots after the final and even last year people were civil to each other, but bb9 were quite harsh, mainly luke, bex, dale and Stuart, Rex and nicole. All I'm saying is about their behaviour on big mouth after the final not in the house I must add.

Mo, kat, Darnell were nice. The others I found funny because they weren't saying anything, their mind wasn't in it which is the best place to be in that environment lol. Special mention to maysoon who went to hug and congratulate rachel and to steph as well who as rachel won and was coming down the stairs was clapping for her genuinely.
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Old 11-05-2013, 00:16
Pointy
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Helen and Pete. I enjoyed their times in the house.
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Old 11-05-2013, 15:51
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Helen from BB2, Jonny and Kate BB3, Cameron and Steph from BB4, and Josie from recently! All nice people!
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