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Doctor Who Series 7 Episode 12: The Crimson Horror 04/05/2013 BBC1 6:30pm


View Poll Results: What did you think of the episode?
Excellent 317 46.55%
Good 213 31.28%
Average 86 12.63%
Bad 33 4.85%
Poor 32 4.70%
Voters: 681. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

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Old 09-05-2013, 10:42
lordOfTime
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Caught up on this last night. Thought it was brilliant, easily the best of the series so far. The Crimson stuff were very scary as was Ada in her makeup..

I thought this was going to be a Doctor Lite episode till we saw him in the Crimson poison. Some very scary stuff indeed.

Shaping up nicely for the finale.
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Old 09-05-2013, 13:30
nebogipfel
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Was Ada not in danger of being held accountable for her part in the forced imprisonments and deaths? Were the Paternoster Gang going to whisk her away before the Peelers turned up to look into things?

Ada seemed to play a role in the operational aspects of Sweetville. Such as body disposal. She also seemed in harmony with the plan - well, at least when she thought she and Monster were going to survive the mass murder.
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Old 09-05-2013, 13:44
Thrombin
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Was Ada not in danger of being held accountable for her part in the forced imprisonments and deaths? Were the Paternoster Gang going to whisk her away before the Peelers turned up to look into things?

Ada seemed to play a role in the operational aspects of Sweetville. Such as body disposal. She also seemed in harmony with the plan - well, at least when she thought she and Monster were going to survive the mass murder.
Yes, I mentioned this in another thread. Ada was far from innocent in all this. She was happy to go along with the plan as long as she was going to be one of the chosen ones. She only turned against her mother when she realised that wasn't going to happen.
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Old 09-05-2013, 15:39
daveskey69
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Was Ada not in danger of being held accountable for her part in the forced imprisonments and deaths? Were the Paternoster Gang going to whisk her away before the Peelers turned up to look into things?

Ada seemed to play a role in the operational aspects of Sweetville. Such as body disposal. She also seemed in harmony with the plan - well, at least when she thought she and Monster were going to survive the mass murder.
I hadn't thought of that at all! I'm surprised she didn't get a talking to. Unless she didn't know the extent to which her mother was going...maybe she just thought it was going to be a little society of betters?
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Old 09-05-2013, 16:09
nanscombe
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Were there many Asian children in Yorkshire in 1893?
There were probably more Asian children in Yorkshire than Sontarans or Silurians!
And a lot more people called Thomas than Navrinder.
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Old 09-05-2013, 17:04
nebogipfel
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And a lot more people called Thomas than Navrinder.
.So to keep within product placement guidelines the joke should have been:
"What's your name?"
"Thomas, sir. Thomas Thomas. Other children who know the way are available."

But I now rather like the idea of shoehorning in the implausible Asian kid. If only to piss off UKIP. (Another lot who would do well to stay off the jelly sherbert fancies).
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Old 09-05-2013, 17:11
nebogipfel
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Yes, I mentioned this in another thread. Ada was far from innocent in all this. She was happy to go along with the plan as long as she was going to be one of the chosen ones. She only turned against her mother when she realised that wasn't going to happen.
sorry old bean. Missed that. Seven thousand odd posts and barely an original notion among them

Gatiss sacrificed moral rectitude in order to have his fabulous "monster" reveal.
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Old 09-05-2013, 17:11
thorr
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I wonder if there is any significance in the singing of Jerusalem 23 years before the music was written. Either it has some meaning, or it was a disappointing historical error - the BBC should know better! Sure they could have consulted Aled Jones - who probably lives just up the road from the studios!
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Old 09-05-2013, 17:31
degsyhufc
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Because historical verisimilitude is always a high priority in Doctor Who
I won't say it wasn't true to history as i've not done the research but in the Shakespear episode there were black people walking about the streets.

So no reason to think there couldn't be an Asian family in Yorkshire in the Victorian period.

From an episode of QI
When the Pilgrim Fathers first arrived in America, the first thing that the Native Americans said to them was "Could I have some beer?" in English. Most of the Native Americans learnt their English from Squanto, a Native who travelled across the Atlantic Ocean 6 times. He was kidnapped to England, then brought back to America, he was kidnapped again and sold to slavery in Spain, before escaping to Cuper's Cove, Newfoundland, but he found it took too long to walk back, so he took a boat back to Ireland before returning to New England. The other famous Native, Samoset, learnt his English from fishermen.
People do seem to get around
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:15
Gary of Beeston
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Do you know anyone named Garmin?
Wasn't he one one of the scientists in Genesis of the Daleks?

Gary
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:21
TC Nibbles
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Although I enjoyed the episode, I think Clara has quickly fallen into the same trap as Amy and become all story-line and no character.

When Rose, Martha and Donna joined the TARDIS I had a real sense of who they were, what their lives had been like and why they wanted to leave it all behind.

I just didn't get that sense of Amy being a real person and I'm now in the same boat with Clara. Moffat spends too much time building a story arc/mystery around his companions, and not enough time making them seem real.

The fact the Doctor keeps dropping her off after every adventure doesn't exactly help either.

A shame, because she seemed to have great promise.
This.
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:49
nanscombe
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Wasn't he one one of the scientists in Genesis of the Daleks?

Gary
Nice try. It was Gharman.
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Old 10-05-2013, 00:09
Thrombin
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sorry old bean. Missed that. Seven thousand odd posts and barely an original notion among them .
Don't be sorry. Iím just glad I'm not the only one who noticed!
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:21
Si_Crewe
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FWIW, I re-watched "The Snowmen" last night and Jenny was wearing the same catsuit/corset in that as well so I guess it wasn't a tribute to Diana Rigg in The Crimson Horror.

Also, after re-watching The Snowmen, I think I've got a very good idea how this season is going to work out.
The clue, IMO, is that although we first see Clara in the future, her "original" appearance was in "The Snowmen".
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:35
Shandyman81
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FWIW, I re-watched "The Snowmen" last night and Jenny was wearing the same catsuit/corset in that as well so I guess it wasn't a tribute to Diana Rigg in The Crimson Horror.
Yea, I pointed that out here earlier in the thread, but I was overlooked.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:44
sandydune
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Who was Abigail's friend? Abigail explained to Jenny how she hadn't seen her, could it be relevant?
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:47
Shandyman81
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Who was Abigail's friend? Abigail explained to Jenny how she hadn't seen her, could it be relevant?
It was just to show people go missing after going to sweetville, that was all.
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Old 10-05-2013, 14:02
Si_Crewe
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Yea, I pointed that out here earlier in the thread, but I was overlooked.
Sorry.

I thought somebody else might have noticed but I last posted here on Saturday so there's a bunch of new pages to read though.
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Old 10-05-2013, 14:24
Shandyman81
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Sorry.

I thought somebody else might have noticed but I last posted here on Saturday so there's a bunch of new pages to read though.
It's ok, I wasn't having a go, just surprised that people missed it. Guess it spoils their excitement as the thought it was a tribute.
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Old 10-05-2013, 14:35
Thrombin
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It's ok, I wasn't having a go, just surprised that people missed it. Guess it spoils their excitement as the thought it was a tribute.
I was pretty sure she wore the same thing in Snowmen so I was a bit bemused by all this tribute stuff. However, my memory is notoriously awful so I didn't want to say anything in case I was wrong!
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Old 10-05-2013, 14:52
sandydune
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It was just to show people go missing after going to sweetville, that was all.
thanks
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Old 10-05-2013, 15:35
kat180
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You asserted that she did nothing to contribute to the episodes, that she just stood around in the background and looked pretty. That was what I was arguing. I believe I have demonstrated this to be patently untrue and you even seem to have acknowledged that at least once:



None of your other comments go anywhere to countering my assertion that she played an important part in most, if not all of the episodes. Whether she showed genius, whether other people contributed, whether the mission could have succeeded without her. It's all irrelevant. Point is, you cannot deny that she did all of the things I listed which means she played an important role. She was not just background scenery.
We'll agree to disagree. I stand by everything I said. The parts she has played in each episode have been, to my mind, pretty negligible. You see them as important or big contributions, I see them as throwaway lines or the odd bit of action that could have just as easily been played by anyone.

The point is, there's no sense of who Clara is. It's like the writers can't figure out what to do with her since The Snowman. They seem to be banking on 'the mystery of Clara' to hold our attention and make us care about this character and it feels like lazy characterization to me.

When I say she just seems to be there to look pretty in the background, its because she doesn't seem to have any interests, history, ambitions, disagreeable aspects to her personality, any sense of a real life and so on.

Perhaps I'm simply getting tired of seeing the same thing in the doctor's companions: usually flirting with the doctor, snarky, always have a witty comeback, their whole life seemingly revolving around him, and I know I'm fed up with the sexist little asides that keep cropping up in the show. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Doctor Who a lot, but I do have a problem with the way Clara has been written.
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Old 10-05-2013, 15:49
Thrombin
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When I say she just seems to be there to look pretty in the background, its because she doesn't seem to have any interests, history, ambitions, disagreeable aspects to her personality, any sense of a real life and so on.

What does that have to do with staying in the background of an episode

Are you saying that anything she does in the episode is irrelevant unless it reveals her history and past interests? By that reasoning she could have 80% of the focus of the episode and a pivotal role and still be a background character. That makes no sense to me.

Apart from which we had half an episode dedicated to her history. From how her parents met, to her growing up as a child, the death of her mother, her desire to see the world and travel, how her friend died and how she took it on herself to look after the kids.

Just precisely how many companions have we had anywhere near that amount of history on?

That covers the history, interests and ambitions. As for disagreeable aspects, the forums are awash with people who think she has disagreeable aspects. Not that I would consider a lack of disagreeable aspects to be a problem but, each to their own, I guess

You are, of course, perfectly free to dislike Clara or how she is being portrayed and I am perfectly happy to agree to disagree with your assessment. However, i have to say, I don't understand your reasoning at all.
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Old 10-05-2013, 16:29
Banks246
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What does that have to do with staying in the background of an episode

Are you saying that anything she does in the episode is irrelevant unless it reveals her history and past interests? By that reasoning she could have 80% of the focus of the episode and a pivotal role and still be a background character. That makes no sense to me.

Apart from which we had half an episode dedicated to her history. From how her parents met, to her growing up as a child, the death of her mother, her desire to see the world and travel, how her friend died and how she took it on herself to look after the kids.

Just precisely how many companions have we had anywhere near that amount of history on?

That covers the history, interests and ambitions. As for disagreeable aspects, the forums are awash with people who think she has disagreeable aspects. Not that I would consider a lack of disagreeable aspects to be a problem but, each to their own, I guess

You are, of course, perfectly free to dislike Clara or how she is being portrayed and I am perfectly happy to agree to disagree with your assessment. However, i have to say, I don't understand your reasoning at all.
After reading that part of his post I was gonna reply, but saw this reply so I needed not! You said everything I wanted to say.
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Old 10-05-2013, 16:37
Thrombin
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After reading that part of his post I was gonna reply, but saw this reply so I needed not! You said everything I wanted to say.
Thanks

I should add that Sarah Jane Smith was one of the most popular classic companions of all time. About the only thing we knew about her background was that she was a Journalist and she had an Aunt Lavinia!
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