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Old 07-05-2013, 21:08
Granny McSmith
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I agree it isn't interesting just to post a one line criticism but the internet has been around for a long time now, I'm not sure why people still respond to or are surprised by these posts.

Whilst some maybe baiting I dare say some are just genuine quick fire posts be it positive or negative.



The proof is in the pudding Granny. Take a look at the pages of this forum how many negative threads are there? How many actual Doctor Who Sucks threads are there.
I certainly wouldn't describe it as lots, in fact I'd be hard pushed to describe it as a few.

What I think is happening is a few posters that read other forums, other sites and take the criticism they see there and transfer their frustration to any and every person with a criticism on this forum.




There is a thread, for example asking for posters opinions on Clara, so of course there will be different opinions positive and negative.
My point about the very brief posts is that it's not relevant how new someone is - people who have just joined can have interesting and original views.

There were quite a few negative or merely silly threads a week or so ago. I agree they seem to have abated now.

The thread on Clara is fine - pros and cons, reasonable discussion. That's the sort of thread most of us like, I hope.

Better than a thread saying "Clara sucks. Bring back Amy, now". Which might reflect the view of the poster but isn't going to achieve anything except negative reaction.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:10
saladfingers81
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I agree, how many times have we seen posters who state they didn't understand something being told they weren't paying attention or, even worse, that they are not intelligent enough to understand what went on.

Another thing I find extremely hypocritical is when someone dismisses a negative post and tries to counteract the criticism by being negative about RTD's era.
With regards to your first point I don't think i have seen anyone be dismissive or rude to anyone that posted a negative comment when it was explained. As Granny said what became irritating was a stream of 'Doctor Who is rubbish/sucks/no one likes it anymore' posts that didn't take the time to explain why.

And when someone says 'I was busy on Twitter/couldnt be bothered to pay attention/etc' and then says an episode didn't make sense then I think a degree of scorn is well deserved.

With regards to the RTD point, again. I love both eras equally but differently. But when someone has a go at the Moffat era for reasons that could easily have applied to the RTD era then its fair game to point out the inconsistency. For instance the 'Doctor Who is childish now' or 'its uses too many deus ex machinas' type of argument. That can be said about RTD to and has been. So it is valid to call that out and ask why it is a problem now but wasn't before.

So if someone says DW is too silly now then pointing out the existence of burping wheelie bins and Adipose is totally a valid argument. Doesn't mean hypocrisy. If anything the hypocrisy is in deeming those things fine under one show runner but then using them as a stick to beat another with.

I love both eras. But if someone says 'Doctor who is too silly now and unrealistic and whimsical' then I will point out the Tardis towing the earth back to its orbit and ask why that was ok.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:13
Granny McSmith
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I agree, how many times have we seen posters who state they didn't understand something being told they weren't paying attention or, even worse, that they are not intelligent enough to understand what went on.
.
With regards to your first point I don't think i have seen anyone be dismissive or rude to anyone that posted a negative comment when it was explained.
.
It has happened. I am too dim, apparently, to get The Big Bang.

Luckily it bothers me not one jot.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:17
saladfingers81
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It has happened. I am too dim, apparently, to get The Big Bang.

Luckily it bothers me not one jot.
Well then that's of course out of order.

I was referring more to some of the 'post while watching' group who say things like 'this is sooooooo boring'five minutes in and then 35 minutes in say 'such and such didn't make sense' and when someone points out it did make sense they say 'I was only half watching anyway etc'.

In my time posting when someone asked a genuine question about the plot because they just didn't get it I see helpful answers and no scorn. Not saying it hasn't happened as you say...it obviously has.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:22
SilenceWillFall
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It has happened. I am too dim, apparently, to get The Big Bang.

Luckily it bothers me not one jot.
Don't worry. There's at least two of us. I loved it and it's by far my favorite series finale (the only one that comes a bit close it series 1), but there's still so much about it that I don't understand. I mean how was River still alive and able to give Amy her spoiler book if the Doctor never existed? Shouldn'tshe have been erased from history (at least the way she was) as in that timeline Amy and Rory wouldn't have travelled on the TARDIS in the future?
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:27
saladfingers81
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Don't worry. There's at least two of us. I loved it and it's by far my favorite series finale (the only one that comes a bit close it series 1), but there's still so much about it that I don't understand. I mean how was River still alive and able to give Amy her spoiler book if the Doctor never existed? Shouldn'tshe have been erased from history (at least the way she was) as in that timeline Amy and Rory wouldn't have travelled on the TARDIS in the future?
I love The Big Bang. Like you its my second favorite finale episode. But actually if you have paid attention to it properly then you can't help but see its inconsistencies...that's not a sign of misunderstanding or 'not getting it'. In fact I would say anyone who blindly thinks the whole thing makes perfect sense hasn't watched it closely enough. Still. Flawed genius...for me anyway. And certainly it asked a bit more of the viewer than previous finales had. But that was just the nature of the story.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:47
SilenceWillFall
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I love The Big Bang. Like you its my second favorite finale episode. But actually if you have paid attention to it properly then you can't help but see its inconsistencies...that's not a sign of misunderstanding or 'not getting it'. In fact I would say anyone who blindly thinks the whole thing makes perfect sense hasn't watched it closely enough. Still. Flawed genius...for me anyway. And certainly it asked a bit more of the viewer than previous finales had. But that was just the nature of the story.
Well, it's my first not second favorite. But anyway, I enjoyed it the most when I didn't think too much about it and decided to ignore the plot holes. It's just now when I'm looking back at it that they start popping up. But I still think that the way the whole series tied in with the Doctor going back through his time stream in TBB was pretty genius. Also, when I think about it now, Amy wishing people into existence really doesn't seem to make much sense, but personally I still love it, because personally I enjoy the idea of the power thoughts/words can have even though it doesn't make much sense in terms of sci-fi. Similarly when I first saw it I loved the scene in the Last of the Time Lords where people "revived" the Doctor by wishing even though it seems silly when you think about it too much.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:52
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That seems to me to be incredibly rare, I have never seen it.

What I keep seeing is the opposite where some fans are rude and dismissive towards people who are unhappy will the recent episodes.
It's virtually non-existent on here, but when you look at the likes of Youtube comments or comments on Facebook posts (of which there are now many because for some reason, posts from pages I haven't even liked now show up on my wall...) you come across things like this fairly often.

I just went onto one of the Doctor Who page's posts and read the comments and found these within 1 minute of looking:

"Yeah no. This was terrible and next week looks just as bad. This series has been terrible with the exception being last weeks episode. Moffat when are you going to leave? Please stop ruining the show."

"Awful! Next week will belong on CBeebies now, it looks like he's becoming "Uncle Doctor!"

"Awful...the sooner this series ends and we get rid of Clara and this terrible team of writers the better."

"Why do we need travelling kids now as well- Seems like Moffat is trying to ruin DW with this second part of the series...."

...Oh and they were all right next to each other...
Granted, these aren't anywhere near as bad as personal insults, but they are of the type where people just claim that all Doctor Who episodes are rubbish even the ones they haven't seen yet and where Moffat gets held personally responsible for ruining the show.

The negative comments far outweigh the positive on Facebook, unfortunately.
Edit: Actually, having read a little further, the negative comments actually don't outweigh the positive...but the positive comments all seem to be collected much closer to the time of airing whereas the negative comments start to appear in their droves later on.
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Old 07-05-2013, 22:15
Tassium
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Youtube is not representative of anything.

It's minority extremism most of the time.

A nun healing sick kittens would get nasty comments on Youtube.
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Old 07-05-2013, 22:48
kyllerbuzcut
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Who does that nun think she is? Going round spoiling the proper order of things. Those kittens will grow up and kill people anyway because they are not very good kittens. In fact they are evil. I can tell. The nun should be strung up at once
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Old 07-05-2013, 22:59
sebbie3000
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That seems to me to be incredibly rare, I have never seen it.

What I keep seeing is the opposite where some fans are rude and dismissive towards people who are unhappy will the recent episodes.
And there is an awful lot of people being berated for their like of the series' in general, and this series in particular. It is happening both sides of the coin, and to insist it isn't is disingenuous.

But sometimes it is valid to be dismissive of someone's 'it's crap' post. Quite often someone will post that, without saying why they think it, or coming back to discuss it. Just as it is perfectly acceptable to be dismissive of someone's 'everything is just perfect' post without them expanding upon it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 23:08
Vabosity
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I think Series 7 is marvellous, and I thought Series 6 was too, but if other people think that since Moffat took the reins the show has become crap they're entitled to say so, as long as they say it as opinion and not fact.
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Old 07-05-2013, 23:14
C. Samurai
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Ulitmately some people just grow out of the show...hell I've fallen in and out of love with other series, I recently just got back into the Pokemon anime after an eight year drought. Nothing has changed much in the tone and format beyond a few cosmetic touches and cast shake-ups, but I'm back to enjoying the formula again.
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Old 07-05-2013, 23:40
DiscoP
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Why do we have to split ourselves into positive or negative posters, can't we be fully rounded individuals capable of expressing a range of opinions? I generally find that whatever view you take you will get people who agree with you and some who don't, that's the nature of forum's isn't it?
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Old 08-05-2013, 13:53
snopaelic
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We are British. British people like to moan. Therefore we like to moan at doctor who
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Old 08-05-2013, 14:33
Delboy219
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We are British. British people like to moan. Therefore we like to moan at doctor who
But god forbid a DW fan complains about the shows failings in front of the type of fan (the ones that think the show can do NO wrong...ever) that uses it to launch a thinly veiled, personal attack on you. Sadly, i've only posted in this section a few times, and only twice were people civil to me. I find that bizarre knowing that we all love the same show.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:32
OswaldBar
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Honestly......It absolutely astounds me some of the posters on here being so nasty and down right rude towards someone who has worked so bloody hard to write and produce the show we all (are supposed to) love.

I have been a fan of this program since the late 70's when Tom Baker was in situ and have loved it ever since....yes, ofcourse, there are certain stories that I have not liked much, yes, ofcourse, there has been directions the show has gone in from time to time that I may not have particularly agreed with, yes ofcourse, I have been surprised at some casting decisions etc etc etc.... but above all, we have a show that is nothing like anything else on Television, that constantly strives to surprise us, shock us, make us laugh, reduce us to tears, make us jump up in the air and above all makes us passionate.

Steven Moffatt and his team, and Russell T Davies and his team have done nothing but work there collective asses off over the past 8 or 9 years to produce the best drama they can with the support of the BBC, THIS is what we should all remember!! how difficult it is to juggle all the elements that it takes to produce a television drama, ensure it all comes together and appeals to ALL age groups and demographics, not just a chosen few who feel they have the god given right to verbally attack every decision that they dont happen to agree with. We are all fans and we should be supporting Steven and his team, yes, ofcourse, we are all entitled to our opinion, and yes ofcourse, we do not always like what we see, but surely this can be done in a more respectful and constructive way. My God!!! to think that we have had 8 Years of constant very good quality Doctor Who after 16 years of very little....ive loved every second of it and I dont want it to end, it may do one day, but please folks, embrace what we have, stop bloody whinging, be grateful and respectful and try and put yourselves in Steven's shoes, the majority of us wouldnt have a notion where to start......
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:20
The_abbott
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Honestly......It absolutely astounds me some of the posters on here being so nasty and down right rude towards someone who has worked so bloody hard to write and produce the show we all (are supposed to) love.

I have been a fan of this program since the late 70's when Tom Baker was in situ and have loved it ever since....yes, ofcourse, there are certain stories that I have not liked much, yes, ofcourse, there has been directions the show has gone in from time to time that I may not have particularly agreed with, yes ofcourse, I have been surprised at some casting decisions etc etc etc.... but above all, we have a show that is nothing like anything else on Television, that constantly strives to surprise us, shock us, make us laugh, reduce us to tears, make us jump up in the air and above all makes us passionate.

Steven Moffatt and his team, and Russell T Davies and his team have done nothing but work there collective asses off over the past 8 or 9 years to produce the best drama they can with the support of the BBC, THIS is what we should all remember!! how difficult it is to juggle all the elements that it takes to produce a television drama, ensure it all comes together and appeals to ALL age groups and demographics, not just a chosen few who feel they have the god given right to verbally attack every decision that they dont happen to agree with. We are all fans and we should be supporting Steven and his team, yes, ofcourse, we are all entitled to our opinion, and yes ofcourse, we do not always like what we see, but surely this can be done in a more respectful and constructive way. My God!!! to think that we have had 8 Years of constant very good quality Doctor Who after 16 years of very little....ive loved every second of it and I dont want it to end, it may do one day, but please folks, embrace what we have, stop bloody whinging, be grateful and respectful and try and put yourselves in Steven's shoes, the majority of us wouldnt have a notion where to start......
so just because they work hard automatically means they are exempt from criticism? I remember seing Steven Moffat in the Earthshock DVD being scathing of Adric.

The fans are passionate about the show so of course they will moan if they see something they think is rubbish and gives TPTB clues to whats working and what isn't
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:28
DiscoP
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so just because they work hard automatically means they are exempt from criticism? I remember seing Steven Moffat in the Earthshock DVD being scathing of Adric.

The fans are passionate about the show so of course they will moan if they see something they think is rubbish and gives TPTB clues to whats working and what isn't
Oh no you don't really think TPTB pay any attention to what we all write on here do you? (I certainly hope not )
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:30
OswaldBar
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so just because they work hard automatically means they are exempt from criticism? I remember seing Steven Moffat in the Earthshock DVD being scathing of Adric.

The fans are passionate about the show so of course they will moan if they see something they think is rubbish and gives TPTB clues to whats working and what isn't
Not at all, what I am saying is that surely those who criticise can do so in a more constructive and respectful way rather than being so personal and vindictive towards someone who they do not know personally. Yes, he was scathing of Adric, but he did not use the kind a language we have come to expect on here from some posters. I just dont think there is any need for it.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:02
CAMERA OBSCURA
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Not at all, what I am saying is that surely those who criticise can do so in a more constructive and respectful way rather than being so personal and vindictive towards someone who they do not know personally. Yes, he was scathing of Adric, but he did not use the kind a language we have come to expect on here from some posters. I just dont think there is any need for it.
Sorry OswaldBar, but where are all these personal and vindictive posts and what kind of language is being used exactly. Strongest Ive seen is a poster calling him a NERD

The thing is there are a few posters that want to tar anyone and everyone with concerns at the direction show has taken under Steven Moffat.





Im at the stage now where I hope Mr. Moffat leaves the show. Whilst series 7b (thats how ridiculous it has got..7 bloody B) has been for me an improvement it's all a little too late, the writing is repeating itself or just half inching ideas from RTD era..at times almost lock stock and barrel, the cracks are showing just as they were for me during RTD's specials.

For this viewer it is time for the show runner to move on. I miss the sense of adventure and fun (That's why I loved The Crimson Horror.) and most of all a connection with the main characters that the classics and the RTD era had.


That isn't being personal and vindictive again Steven Moffat THAT is a Moffat fan wondering where it all when wrong. Well I know where it all when wrong Steven payed far too much attention to the fan circuit, the com con crowds, the fan boy interviews, the 'your dark and scary and complex Mr. Moffat' fans and not the causal viewer.

Series 6, on the whole, wasn't British Doctor Who it was a bastardised US version, vacuous one dimensional characters speaking the most drab dialogue because it was to serve plots and an arc and not to put flesh on the bones. This often gets mistaken for complex writing, it isn't, much like when a set is lit dark it is mistaken for being 'dark'…it isn't, it is all in the writing.

The sense of adventure had been stripped down to a dull pace, and on the rare occasions when things did get a little exciting straight away it was all reigned back in again, to conscious of taking that next step into out and out bombastic adventure….you know..like well... Doctor bleedin' Who.

So again whilst series 7b has been an improvement its 3 series in now for Mr. Moffat and well…don't you think it looks a bit tired?


Oopps…..IMO
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:57
kyllerbuzcut
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Well I have to say I thought series 6 was the best yet. 7 as a whole isn't quite up there, while being consistently of very good quality. And the reason i think that is because the arc going on made it feel a lot like classic who. There was something linking the stories together, and almost every week there was another bit to add on top of the overall story.

Re watching some episodes from 6 brings while new meanings to some of the events.it must be so hard to do. Just thinking about the picnic by the lake can make your head explode

So in my opinion i hope Moffat stays for another few years. If i have any criticism to give it would be to sick to what he thinks and not pay any attention to any of the fans. I think he might have reigned in (our been reigned in by the bbc) after hearing people call it complicated. So for me, I wish for more series 6 style in the future.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:06
Granny McSmith
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Well I have to say I thought series 6 was the best yet. 7 as a whole isn't quite up there, while being consistently of very good quality. And the reason i think that is because the arc going on made it feel a lot like classic who. There was something linking the stories together, and almost every week there was another bit to add on top of the overall story.

Re watching some episodes from 6 brings while new meanings to some of the events.it must be so hard to do. Just thinking about the picnic by the lake can make your head explode

So in my opinion i hope Moffat stays for another few years. If i have any criticism to give it would be to sick to what he thinks and not pay any attention to any of the fans. I think he might have reigned in (our been reigned in by the bbc) after hearing people call it complicated. So for me, I wish for more series 6 style in the future.
Couldn't disagree more. I loathed the arcs in series 5 and 6, thought they were badly conceived, badly written and badly executed. (Though I loved the characters).

I have liked series 7, though I liked series 7a better than series 7b.

As I said in another thread, I would like Moffat to go after Christmas, which is when I think Matt will go, so we can get a new take on the story. I hope Moffat isn't going to hang on and on in the mistaken assumption that he is the only man for the job.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:07
sebbie3000
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Sorry OswaldBar, but where are all these personal and vindictive posts and what kind of language is being used exactly. Strongest Ive seen is a poster calling him a NERD

The thing is there are a few posters that want to tar anyone and everyone with concerns at the direction show has taken under Steven Moffat.





Im at the stage now where I hope Mr. Moffat leaves the show. Whilst series 7b (thats how ridiculous it has got..7 bloody B) has been for me an improvement it's all a little too late, the writing is repeating itself or just half inching ideas from RTD era..at times almost lock stock and barrel, the cracks are showing just as they were for me during RTD's specials.

For this viewer it is time for the show runner to move on. I miss the sense of adventure and fun (That's why I loved The Crimson Horror.) and most of all a connection with the main characters that the classics and the RTD era had.

Umm... Where, exactly? What ideas has he been pinching from RTD? And how is he repeating himself.

Everyone can dislike Moff, for all I personally care - I like his stuff, and have done since he started, especially his charecterisations and complex story-telling in series 6, which is my personal NuWho favourite series, just beating Series 4 - but if the reason for disliking something is a perceived slight that can be put right, then I feel duty bound to help.

I can't recall anything that is a repeat of RTD (that isn't to say using similar themes, inasmuch as similar themes are used throughout drama, and aren't RDT-centric, but rather story-telling-centirc) or himself.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:37
saladfingers81
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Moffat stealing from RTD? Thats a new one. So in a roundabout way then we can all shift blame onto RTD because its his half inched ideas that are ruining the show....right ok. Glad we cleared that one up.
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