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Michael Jackson's blanket of secrecy to be removed?


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Old 09-05-2013, 00:07
i4u
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Wade Robson's lawyer speaks...

The lawyer for famed choreographer Wade Robson tells TMZ, Michael Jackson was a "monster" who sexually abused Wade for seven years as a child ... and threatened him if he ever went public.

Robson's lawyer, Henry Gradstein, tells TMZ, "Last year, on a career trajectory that was off the charts, he [Wade] collapsed under the stress and sexual trauma of what had happened to him for seven years as a child."
According to Radar online AEG do not intend to call Robson as a witness in the their case with Katherine Jackson.
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Old 09-05-2013, 00:25
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Tom Mesereau is suspicious about the timing of Wade Robson's claim....

Something stinks in Wade Robson's new molestation accusations against Michael Jackson -- so says MJ's famed trial attorney Tom Mesereau, who tells us the smell leads all the way back to AEG ... the company currently being sued by Katherine Jackson.
Mesereau does look creepy.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:25
brumilad
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Sleeping pill addiction is very serious - and an addiction full stop. Whether he was desperate for the stuff to help him sleep or get high, the fact is that he was dependent on it, which means he was addicted. Doesn't matter the reasons - addiction is addiction.

You seem to have a very skewed idea of drug addiction and that one can only be addicted if they are a junkie rifling through bins for a fix. Addiction has many guises and MJ was a hopeless addict.
Actually I think it's you who have the skewed idea of drug addiction.

Just because you 'need' or are 'dependent' on a drug does not make you an addict or 'junkie'. There are thousands of people who are 'dependent' on sleeping pills. That doesn't make them addicts. They need sleeping medication because for physical or mental reasons they are unable to sleep, a function that is vital to our health and well being. And therefore they need to take medication for that purpose... to remain healthy. That's not to say they can't become dependent in the way where it steps over into addiction where the need is no longer to manage a condition. A lot of ignorance stems from the inability of people to separate the two.

It doesn't make them anymore addicts than those who are dependent on drugs to treat chemical imbalances and mental illnesses or those who have to spend the rest of their lives taking anti rejection drugs after a transplant.

For all we know Michael Jackson might be a junkie, addicted to this medication but like tomclarky suggests there's nothing to say that he wasn't just being treated (albeit incorrectly) for his inability to sleep, a genuine medical condition which lots of people suffer from and use medication for.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:50
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Latest from the courtroom..

LOS ANGELES, Calif. – Michael Jackson’s doctor was not qualified to treat the singer for insomnia or drug addiction and botched resuscitation efforts, an expert cardiologist (Dr. Daniel Wohlgelernter) testifying for the singer’s mother told a jury on Tuesday.

Attorneys for both sides told the panel last week that Michael Jackson suffered from longstanding prescription drug addiction issues.

Wohlgelernter said the company (AEG) should have asked why the two men (Jackson & Murray) wanted to work with each other.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:45
The Prumeister
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Actually I think it's you who have the skewed idea of drug addiction.

Just because you 'need' or are 'dependent' on a drug does not make you an addict or 'junkie'. There are thousands of people who are 'dependent' on sleeping pills. That doesn't make them addicts. They need sleeping medication because for physical or mental reasons they are unable to sleep, a function that is vital to our health and well being. And therefore they need to take medication for that purpose... to remain healthy. That's not to say they can't become dependent in the way where it steps over into addiction where the need is no longer to manage a condition. A lot of ignorance stems from the inability of people to separate the two.

It doesn't make them anymore addicts than those who are dependent on drugs to treat chemical imbalances and mental illnesses or those who have to spend the rest of their lives taking anti rejection drugs after a transplant.

For all we know Michael Jackson might be a junkie, addicted to this medication but like tomclarky suggests there's nothing to say that he wasn't just being treated (albeit incorrectly) for his inability to sleep, a genuine medical condition which lots of people suffer from and use medication for.


If you cannot sleep without sleeping pills for a protracted period of time without sleeping pills (so, obviously, anything longer than a dose for short term sleep deprivation) then you are addicted, it's as simple as that. I was myself but I haven't touched sleeping pills for over a year. Sleeping pills should not be taken by anyone long term, no matter how serious their sleep deprivation, as they simply stop working.

& there is absolutely no comparison with prescription drugs for depression/mental illness. Yes, these are open to abuse, but being on them long term does not necessarily mean addiction and being on them long term does not necessarily mean addiction.

& anti rejection drugs after a transplant is such a silly comparison it's not even worth commenting.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:57
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Dancer tells of her concerns...

Witness Alif Sankey told a jury deciding a lawsuit that the pop star appeared thin and unprepared in 2009 for the rigors of his planned comeback concerts known as "This Is It."

The singer showed up at one rehearsal with shoes that had holes in the soles, missed rehearsals and appeared much thinner than earlier in his career, Sankey testified
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The day before the family produced evidence from the autopsy he was fit and would have lived a long time and now produce evidence how thin he was....confusing.

Make up artist Karen Faye due to be the next witness.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:21
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The day before the family produced evidence from the autopsy he was fit and would have lived a long time and now produce evidence how thin he was....confusing.
Nobody can know how long someone will live so the whole thing is just supposition. He obviously wasn't as fit as he should have been though.

It is gruelling to do live stage shows with a lot of dancing that's why Madonna still works hard at her physical fitness (Mick Jagger too).
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:46
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Here's a picture of Michael Jackson shown to the court.

Karen Faye has been giving evidence this morning. Basically saying what a great artist he was, she seems a bit off hand with the Jacksons lawyer...treating him as igronant. Wonder how the jury see it.

In the video, fans are screaming, some being carted out on stretchers. Panish asks Faye if this is common for a Jackson concert.

Faye: “You obviously have not seen a Michael Jackson concert in your life.”

Panish: “I’m not answering that. I get to ask the questions.”
If the shoe fits....

Lots of photos are shown, including a smoky image of Jackson standing on tippy-toes. Debate ensues over what brand the shoes are.

Panish asks if they’re Air Jordans. No, Faye responds. Judge names another brand. Nope, Faye says fans in the courtroom would know the brand of shoes. Before Panish can stop them, two or three voices call out, “LA Gear!”
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:17
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Summary of Faye's evidence so far, which included...

Faye says during the "Dangerous" tour, promoters asked that she give Jackson injections of pain medications, but she refused. She says a tour manager who later became a top AEG executive then enlisted a doctor to treat Jackson.
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Old 09-05-2013, 23:22
brumilad
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If you cannot sleep without sleeping pills for a protracted period of time without sleeping pills (so, obviously, anything longer than a dose for short term sleep deprivation) then you are addicted, it's as simple as that...
No it's not.

Sleeping pills aren't a cure, they don't get to the root, they are the last resort. And are generally used in the short term. However there are cases where all other treatments fail and they are necessary. I wasn't comparing conditions I was using extreme cases of where medication is needed to treat medical conditions. That people sometimes need medication whatever it may be without having to be labelled 'junkies'.

Sleeping pill addiction isn't all that common, misuse certainly is, because they create an immediate relief to a condition without being the cure. Therefore they become habit forming (as opposed to addictive).

There is nothing to say Jacko was a hopeless addict. Maybe he was, he was certainly irresponsible with drugs but that does not an addict make. Like his whole lifestyle in general he seem willing to pay for instant satisfaction or in this case relief. I mean most the evidence presented seemed to suggest this was someone using medication to treat the symptoms created by other psychological conditions as opposed to being addicted (or even dependent) to a drug or drugs. He didn't need the drugs, he needed the cure, just he had the money to dictate what he thought the cure was.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:37
The Prumeister
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No it's not.

Sleeping pills aren't a cure, they don't get to the root, they are the last resort. And are generally used in the short term. However there are cases where all other treatments fail and they are necessary. I wasn't comparing conditions I was using extreme cases of where medication is needed to treat medical conditions. That people sometimes need medication whatever it may be without having to be labelled 'junkies'.

Sleeping pill addiction isn't all that common, misuse certainly is, because they create an immediate relief to a condition without being the cure. Therefore they become habit forming (as opposed to addictive).

There is nothing to say Jacko was a hopeless addict. Maybe he was, he was certainly irresponsible with drugs but that does not an addict make. Like his whole lifestyle in general he seem willing to pay for instant satisfaction or in this case relief. I mean most the evidence presented seemed to suggest this was someone using medication to treat the symptoms created by other psychological conditions as opposed to being addicted (or even dependent) to a drug or drugs. He didn't need the drugs, he needed the cure, just he had the money to dictate what he thought the cure was.


Yes, but again, this should only ever be for a few weeks absolute maximum. Any doctor will tell you that sleeping pills are habit forming = addictive. Nowadays, most doctors (NHS anyway), will not even prescribe them unless your sleep loss is so severe that it's become dangerous. Even then, they will be monitored carefully and not prescribed for any more than 2 weeks at any one time. They are extremely addictive drugs; this is a medical fact and not just my opinion.

Having an anaesthetic injected into you every night to assist sleep (which is what appears to have happened with Jackson) is addiction IMHO.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:42
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Karen Fayes evidence continued...

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Michael Jackson's longtime makeup artist testified Thursday that she overhead an executive for concert promoter AEG Live insist that the singer rehearse despite signs of Jackson's declining health.

Faye said the only people she saw insist that Jackson rehearse were Gongaware and tour director Kenny Ortega.
A fan had written Michael might die, an assessment Faye agreed with and informed Frank DiLeo, his manager.

By this point, Jackson was often cold to the touch and was becoming increasingly paranoid. Faye said he became obsessed with her being within sight when he was rehearsing onstage.
Karen told of Michael being frustrated at a costume fitting days before his death, complaining he wasn't being allowed to choose.

Karen Faye also told of Michael's reliance on medications during the "Dangerous" Tour in 92/93 saying she refused to inject him with pain medications. Sher said Paul Gongaware, who handled logistics on that tour, brought in doctors who treated Jackson. The tour was halted early so Jackson could receive treatment for his prescription drug addiction.

Friday will be just a morning session, with Karen Faye continuing to testify.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:58
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I'm amazed how so many people say they were 'close' to Michael then say he was a private person. Dancer Alif Sankey conceeded in court she didn't have lengthy conversations with Michael.

It appears there may have been objections to what Karen Faye could say as much of it was hearsay.

According to Anthony McCartney (Associated Press) AEG said at the start of the trial the contract with Michael required him to perfom concerts, not rehearse.
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Old 10-05-2013, 20:07
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More from yesterday's evidence by Karen Faye....

Was Debbie Rowe chosen to be mother as she'd proved she could keep her mouth shut?

Faye testified that nurse Debbie Rowe, who would later become Jackson's second wife and the mother of his two oldest children, would travel with them on the "Dangerous" tour in 1992 with "a little bag" of medications.

"Debbie Rowe asked me to learn how to give injections," she said. "I thought about it and said 'No.' I am not qualified to handle any kind of medications."

When the tour was on its way to Bangkok, Thailand, Faye was asked to carry a package she was told contained medicine patches for Jackson's pain, she testified. She refused to travel with it, she said.

Faye testified that the tour doctor, Dr. Stuart Finkelstein, later told her "I'm glad you weren't carrying it. It has vials and syringes. If you had brought this in, you might not be here." The implication was she could have been arrested for smuggling drugs.
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Old 10-05-2013, 20:10
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More to the divorce than meets the eye?

Jurors viewed a series of photos of Faye and Jackson together through the years, including one taken in January 1996, the day after Lisa Marie Presley filed for divorce from Jackson.

Jackson was upset because just before filing, Presley called him and begged him not to file for divorce, she said.

"She begged and begged, saying please don't file," Faye said. Jackson promised not to file, only to see "the next morning it was all over the press that she filed before him." The photo of Jackson out with Faye "was to give the press something to talk about" with Faye being "the mysterious blonde."
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:23
denial_orstupid
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Yes, but again, this should only ever be for a few weeks absolute maximum. Any doctor will tell you that sleeping pills are habit forming = addictive. Nowadays, most doctors (NHS anyway), will not even prescribe them unless your sleep loss is so severe that it's become dangerous. Even then, they will be monitored carefully and not prescribed for any more than 2 weeks at any one time. They are extremely addictive drugs; this is a medical fact and not just my opinion.

Having an anaesthetic injected into you every night to assist sleep (which is what appears to have happened with Jackson) is addiction IMHO.
we are not talking about normal doctors though are we , they were on the jackson payroll , not one or two either ,so it could enable to him too have more of the drugs he wanted .
he was a hopeless addict . anyone that cannot see that is either blind or themselves hopelessly devoted to michael jackson .
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:40
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Wade Robson was singing Michael's praises in July 2011 before his breakdown....

… talking about preserving MJ’s legacy and “representing his essence” … just 8 months before he claims a nervous breakdown sent memories of sexual abuse flooding back.

Robson rhapsodizes about MJ and the influence he had on his life ... telling the reporter from Rhythm Addict TV that he felt a lot of pressure choreographing the MJ Cirque du Soleil show.
But here's the rub. A spokesperson for the Michael Jackson Estate -- which produced the Cirque du Soleil show -- tells TMZ ... Robson was "on the list of choreographers but his son got sick and he wasn't used." The spokesperson said there was never a contract between Wade and the show.

BUT...according to TMZ there was never a contract between Wade and the show. Who says...none other than the Michael Jackson Estate.

Sounds familiar.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:14
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Day 2 of Karen Faye's evidence under cross examination by AEG...

Faye said she did not discuss Jackson’s drug problem with him personally.

“I just avoided that issue like the plague, sir, the molestation and the drug areas,” she told Putnam today.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:37
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AEG must be worth an insane amount if Katherine Jackson's successful in suing them. I don't think I've ever heard of such a gigantic claim as this before. I've heard of hundreds of millions of dollars, or even a few billion, and even the few billion would be at the extreme end, but 48 billion? They will surely have to have a VERY good reason for suing for that amount? America seems to be the suing capital of the world though.
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Old 11-05-2013, 13:04
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Some more from Karen Faye...

She did Michael's make up and gave him false eyelashes for a TV appearance when he announced he was going to rehab.

Under cross examination Faye said she was released not fired from the HIStory tour.

Michael's wife Debbie Rowe who was pregnant had a role in Faye being removed from the tour she was jealous of their closeness. When she went to back to work for Michael he made Debbie apologise to Faye for having a role in getting her fired.

For the "This Is It" tour she was concerned about Michael sweating due to him wearing a hairpiece, she consulted a doctor about Botox. She had two prescription drugs in her name for Michael Propecia & Latisse for Hair and Eyelash growth.

Karen prepared Michael's body for the family to see after he died.

Rebbie Jackson approached Karen to discuss fears about Michael's drug use. Karen believed the was not successful in getting Michael into rehab.
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Old 11-05-2013, 13:28
i4u
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AEG must be worth an insane amount if Katherine Jackson's successful in suing them. I don't think I've ever heard of such a gigantic claim as this before. I've heard of hundreds of millions of dollars, or even a few billion, and even the few billion would be at the extreme end, but 48 billion? They will surely have to have a VERY good reason for suing for that amount? America seems to be the suing capital of the world though.
The suggestion is that is was to gain media attention.
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Old 11-05-2013, 13:49
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Re Karen Faye's evidence was there anyone not providing Michael Jackson with a prescription drug of one kind or another?

For the 'This Is It' tour she said she had Propecia in her name for Michael, but...

PROPECIA is for the treatment of male pattern hair loss in MEN ONLY and should NOT be used by women or children.
She says she consulted a doctor about Botox for Michael, which one? Klein, Murray or some other quack?

She's obtained prescription drugs in her name from a doctor who may not have known who they were for or their medical condition, his own doctors may have been blissfully unaware as well.

Klein had been providing Michael with regular injections of Demerol unware Murray was providing him with Propofol and who knows what other doctors may have been 'treating' him with.

Karen presents herself as squeaky clean helping Michael as did Klein and Murray...are they all nuts?

If the various prescription drugs were legit on previous tours why the concern about being arrested and seemingly smuggling them into countries?
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Old 11-05-2013, 14:23
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Sounds like the world and his dog were supplying MJ with drugs
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:25
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AEG began producing witnesses today.

Stacy Walker an assistant choreographer although Michael was thinner and missed multiple rehearseals she felt in his last two days he looked ready for a series of shows.

Stacy said she Michael wearing multi layered clothing was from personal choice, although she recalled one incident where Michael appeared groggy or drugged she could not remember if she witnessed it or heard it from others.

Travis Payne, an associate director on the "This Is It" concerts who worked with Michael on a daily basis for 3 months said although he was thinner he was not alarmed and used to have lunch with Michael. Travis said Michael was tired some days and some dances were modified because of his age. Travis will continue with his evidence today.

Another witness was Dr. Christopher Rodgers who is a medical examiner who carried out the autopsy on Michael said Michael was not underweight and appeared to be in excellent health and did not have the signs of someone starving.

The family seem to be arguing Michael was clearly weak and drug riddled and AEG ignored the signs and pushed him harder and harder.

AEG seem to saying Michael was fighting fit but haven't as yet explained why he missed multiple rehearsals.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:54
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Meanwhile Conrad Murray seeks to overturn his conviction overturned...

Supervising Deputy Attorney General Victoria B. Wilson wrote in a response Monday to Conrad Murray's appeal that the former cardiologist's own lawyers forfeited several opportunities to object to a judge's rulings in the case.

"The record shows that (Murray) was playing Russian roulette with Mr. Jackson's life over the course of several months," Wilson wrote.
His attorney Valerie Wass appealed the conviction in April, arguing that Pastor erred by not allowing jurors to hear evidence about Jackson's troubled finances, his contract with concert giant AEG Live LLC, and by not sequestering the jury and allowing television coverage.

She said Wilson's filing didn't address her argument that the prosecution theory about how Jackson overdosed was incorrect and how additional forensic testing could demonstrate that.
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