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Microsoft Set To Do A U-Turn On Windows 8


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Old 13-05-2013, 19:27
tealady
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Pro business networks are very reliable these days...for example sensitive accounts info and the like.
I was thinking more of public cloud rather than private (although depends on the size of the business).
We had an hour power cut last month (affected a wide area) and could do nothing (as the servers with generator are in another building). There is also another widely used application that silently logs into a 3rd party server which is unreliable and is not up as much as it should be.
Can't see how you would split standing data on your Finance or HR system for sensitive data.
A bit off topic now!
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Old 13-05-2013, 19:48
jonner101
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I feel like you want to be annoyed by it so you can argue against it. No-one's making you use a scroll wheel, there are scroll bars, arrows on your keyboard and multi-touch trackpads that support swipes.

When the start menu is popped up on 7, your eyes and focus are on that whilst you're using it and it's only for a few seconds so is it being full screen so bad? Apart from start search/ Win+R type keyboard controls, you actively have to look at the start menu to use it so your eyes aren't on your other windows at that moment in time anyway.

I like that I can go to the start screen from any monitor, not just the primary monitor.

I find it better, the smaller all programs area in the windows 7 start menu needed more scrolling because you can't fit much in there. The search mixes everything up and can only show a few items at a time.

Here being full screen means I can see more in one go and find something faster, plus the search text is larger and the search results are "focused" so I can find something much quicker. In practice, I type a couple of letters and hit enter so the start screen is literally there for the blink of an eye.



Pinning to the start menu is like pinning to the start screen except you can be faster due to larger hit targets, you can do it from any monitor and you have a 2D space to arrange them rather than just a 1D list.

The horizontal scroll takes 1 second to adjust to, you scroll the first time, you realise it's horizontal and your mind magically adapts.



Search indexing in 7 is ok. I turned it off in Vista because the constant disk I/O was maddening, it seems even better in 8 than 7. E.g. search results were blazing fast from the get go rather than after an index was created.

For printer it still works fine in 8, you just have to click on the settings search focus as the default is apps.
I've got reasonable eyesight so I'd rather not have the whole screen full of icons for the visually impaired especially on a large monitor to open up a new program so yeah I think it's pretty bad.

I'm generally multitasking and concentrating on the main screen while I open up another program to work on a different aspect of the same project so it would get in the way of my productivity.

Sorry the scrolling side to side is daft and doesn't work. They did the same thing in Mac OSx by default in Lion but luckily there is an option to revert to desktop mode.

All they need to do is give people the options to have it set up to their own preferences.

I honestly can't see the logic of 'wanting to dislike something' so I can argue against it so I've no idea where you are coming from on that. I just say what my opinion is, which at the moment on window 8 isn't a good opinion.
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Old 13-05-2013, 20:08
jonner101
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I was thinking more of public cloud rather than private (although depends on the size of the business).
We had an hour power cut last month (affected a wide area) and could do nothing (as the servers with generator are in another building). There is also another widely used application that silently logs into a 3rd party server which is unreliable and is not up as much as it should be.
Can't see how you would split standing data on your Finance or HR system for sensitive data.
A bit off topic now!
Not sure I really understand what that means ?

Wouldn't the data be sitting in a database like an oracle database that was properly secured and backed up. ?
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Old 13-05-2013, 20:20
tealady
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Not sure I really understand what that means ?
It goes back to this:
A cloud style system doesn't mean you keep the data in a third party server if you don't want to, for example sensitive accounts info and the like.
Which I can see now you must mean you can use a private cloud, but not sure how that gets you away from needing your own network.
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Old 14-05-2013, 16:38
lettice
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Todays Windows 8.1 announcement here, along with Surface/RT

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/b...ng-better.aspx

There is a link to listen to todays conference announcement.
http://www.shareholder.com/visitors/...rID=0&player=1

It will be a free update when released from the Windows store.

A preview of Windows 8.1 available June 26th for anyone to download
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Old 14-05-2013, 16:53
stvn758
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Is it any good, I have Windows 7 which I like, not as shiny as Vista but it works well. Once they update it to PC and Mouse friendly is it worth upgrading?
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Old 14-05-2013, 16:56
alanwarwic
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It will be a free update when released from the Windows store.
A free fix which obviously can be done in near 2 bytes of code.

Actually, the fix might have just been a registry setting under something like 'No Metro' so there could be zero bytes necessary.


Much of it will be security fixes.
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Old 14-05-2013, 16:56
DotNetWill
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I've got reasonable eyesight so I'd rather not have the whole screen full of icons for the visually impaired especially on a large monitor to open up a new program so yeah I think it's pretty bad.

I'm generally multitasking and concentrating on the main screen while I open up another program to work on a different aspect of the same project so it would get in the way of my productivity.

Sorry the scrolling side to side is daft and doesn't work. They did the same thing in Mac OSx by default in Lion but luckily there is an option to revert to desktop mode.

All they need to do is give people the options to have it set up to their own preferences.

I honestly can't see the logic of 'wanting to dislike something' so I can argue against it so I've no idea where you are coming from on that. I just say what my opinion is, which at the moment on window 8 isn't a good opinion.
I'm sorry but that statement is daft. You're used to scrolling up and down that's why it's awkward for [i[you[/i]. We read sideways left to right so it makes no sense we'd scroll down when we're used to going right.

As for Lion, I prefer inverted scrolling, it's very natural once you're used it esp on a Mac touch pad thing that is designed to work similar to a touch screen. Again, it's natural to move things up to read lower down on them, I can't remember ever moving a book down to read the last line on a page.

So many people in this thread can't cope with changes in how they've done things previous.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:06
call100
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Is it any good, I have Windows 7 which I like, not as shiny as Vista but it works well. Once they update it to PC and Mouse friendly is it worth upgrading?
It's probably worth reading the rest of this thread and the other W8 threads, rather than drag up the same arguments all over again, which your question will.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:10
TheBigM
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Is it any good, I have Windows 7 which I like, not as shiny as Vista but it works well. Once they update it to PC and Mouse friendly is it worth upgrading?
I hope no-one wants to argue against this statement:

Try it. Some like it, some don't.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:14
stvn758
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People are still arguing over it, damn. Just wanted to know if it did anything better than 7 under all those panel things.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:28
TheBigM
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People are still arguing over it, damn. Just wanted to know if it did anything better than 7 under all those panel things.
Keeping it very brief:

Yes, there are improvements on the Desktop side of things. Desktop is like Windows 7 + improvements - start button.

Personally, I believe it is possible to live just fine in the Desktop and you don't have to visit metro-land often if you don't want to.

I began pretty much never using metro-land but as the apps improve and better ones fill up the store I use some of them now and again.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:55
stvn758
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Thanks. M. Had a quick look through the thread but it looked like those old Mac Windows ones.
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Old 14-05-2013, 18:11
TheBigM
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Thanks. M. Had a quick look through the thread but it looked like those old Mac Windows ones.
Ok well, whilst people will disagree with me, this is what I think:

1. Metro exists and will get better over time but not so necessary to desktops and laptops that don't have touch.

2. It's quite easy to live in the desktop and feel like you are in an upgraded Windows 7 environment and not really bother with metro.

3. Improvements include: it's faster, lighter on system resources, better multi-monitor support, MSE is built-in to Windows, new file copy dialogs, new task manager, new file explorer ribbon, new IE (Windows 8.1 will have IE11), faster boot up, support for UEFI and related features like secure boot.

At 25 (the initial discounted upgrade price) it was worth it. Is it enough over 7 for a non-touch computer at the new upgrade price? Perhaps not. 7 will get long-term support just like XP did but not for as long as XP.

Whilst I wouldn't go out of my way to get it if I was on 7, I wouldn't avoid it either. If I was in the market for a new PC, I'd be perfectly happy with 8.

Windows has always been open to customisation and people use all sorts of 3rd party tools to customise. Current tools in vogue provide start buttons and start menus etc.

I like the idea of ModernMix and running Metro apps windowed on the desktop.
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Old 14-05-2013, 19:04
call100
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Ok well, whilst people will disagree with me, this is what I think:

1. Metro exists and will get better over time but not so necessary to desktops and laptops that don't have touch.

2. It's quite easy to live in the desktop and feel like you are in an upgraded Windows 7 environment and not really bother with metro.

3. Improvements include: it's faster, lighter on system resources, better multi-monitor support, MSE is built-in to Windows, new file copy dialogs, new task manager, new file explorer ribbon, new IE (Windows 8.1 will have IE11), faster boot up, support for UEFI and related features like secure boot.

At 25 (the initial discounted upgrade price) it was worth it. Is it enough over 7 for a non-touch computer at the new upgrade price? Perhaps not. 7 will get long-term support just like XP did but not for as long as XP.

Whilst I wouldn't go out of my way to get it if I was on 7, I wouldn't avoid it either. If I was in the market for a new PC, I'd be perfectly happy with 8.

Windows has always been open to customisation and people use all sorts of 3rd party tools to customise. Current tools in vogue provide start buttons and start menus etc.

I like the idea of ModernMix and running Metro apps windowed on the desktop.
Completely agree.....Perfectly put.
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Old 14-05-2013, 20:22
alanwarwic
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Desktop is like Windows 7 + improvements - start button.....
I began pretty much never using metro-land but as the apps improve and better ones fill up the store I use some of them now and again.
Fact is that if they wanted an app store put an icon on the desktop to the app store.

The double GUI is only there to market and move us onto tablets and Metro. I fully expected them to later remove the desktop.

That way they control 100% of the system just like Apple does on its mobile platform.
IOSificiation of OS/X will head the same way. That potential 30% is a massive incentive.
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Old 14-05-2013, 20:30
TheBigM
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Fact is that if they wanted an app store put an icon on the desktop to the app store.

The double GUI is only there to market and move us onto tablets and Metro. I fully expected them to later remove the desktop.

That way they control 100% of the system just like Apple does on its mobile platform.
IOSificiation of OS/X will head the same way. That potential 30% is a massive incentive.
What might happen in future products is not the topic at hand. What this one offers now is what stvn wants to know and anything beyond is just conjecture.

The double GUI is there so they can point developers to a userbase and encourage development of tablet apps so we buy windows tablets instead of ipads or android tablets. Not the same as encouraging us to buy tablets instead of real computers.

It also enables hybrid computing devices and stops the hard lines between laptops/desktops and tablets/phones which Apple put in place.

The future is surely running everything from our phones like an Asus Padfone.

It's a lot more complicated than Microsoft just making a website with a bunch of links to install files. They created a new application container (AppX) along with a new runtime. You have to do things like be able to easily uninstall these applications, update them from a central source (the store) etc.

It couldn't be done easily with the free-running win32 desktop world.
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Old 14-05-2013, 21:35
jonner101
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Fact is that if they wanted an app store put an icon on the desktop to the app store.

The double GUI is only there to market and move us onto tablets and Metro. I fully expected them to later remove the desktop.

That way they control 100% of the system just like Apple does on its mobile platform.
IOSificiation of OS/X will head the same way. That potential 30% is a massive incentive.
I've been bashing windows 8 on this thread, but there isn't a chance in hell that ability to run win32 apps or desktop applications will be removed anytime soon. Backward compatibility is one of the core reason windows has been so successful over the years. Windows 8 is misguided in its implementation imo but I think they will mostly fix the annoyances in 8.1 for desktop use.

OSx is not like the walled garden of iOS you can freely develop apps and load them on any mac you like I can't see why they would ever change this. All they did was add an app store and an iOS like app launcher in the latest version.
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Old 14-05-2013, 22:06
Shaun_Murray
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I've been bashing windows 8 on this thread, but there isn't a chance in hell that ability to run win32 apps or desktop applications will be removed anytime soon.
Doing this would be commercial suicide.

I don't even have an app
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Old 14-05-2013, 22:44
IvanIV
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Todays Windows 8.1 announcement here, along with Surface/RT

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/b...ng-better.aspx

There is a link to listen to todays conference announcement.
http://www.shareholder.com/visitors/...rID=0&player=1

It will be a free update when released from the Windows store.

A preview of Windows 8.1 available June 26th for anyone to download
Free for those already having W8 or W RT.
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Old 14-05-2013, 22:59
noise747
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At least it is free, but I wonder if a Ms account will be needed, I suppose that is one way to get people to sign up.

I can't even do that , I would have to flik the switch to get Metro back. Still, i don't think it will make any changes to the desktop, from what I have heard so far it is all changes to the Metro UI.

We will wait and see.
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Old 15-05-2013, 00:28
call100
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Free for those already having W8 or W RT.
I guess you can't have an update if you don't have the product? So self evident......
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Old 15-05-2013, 01:01
IvanIV
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I guess you can't have an update if you don't have the product? So self evident......
Depends on what you call an update, but if they want to distribute it via Windows store, that calls it.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:04
John259
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Still, i don't think it will make any changes to the desktop
According to rumours it will provide options to boot to desktop and restore the Start button (but the latter will only lead to the Metro tiles screen not the conventional Start menu). AFAIK nothing's certain yet except we now know that it will be free of charge.
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Old 15-05-2013, 10:00
lettice
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At least it is free, but I wonder if a Ms account will be needed, I suppose that is one way to get people to sign up.

I can't even do that , I would have to flik the switch to get Metro back. Still, i don't think it will make any changes to the desktop, from what I have heard so far it is all changes to the Metro UI.

We will wait and see.
To check store updates from desktop, even if you have disabled metro, just enter ms-windows-store://
from your desktop search

Yes you will need a MS login for the windows 8.1 update.
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