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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 16-05-2013, 23:11
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Celebrities in the dock and the affair with a teacher that makes me queasy about always blaming the older man

"From the first day of term when I walked into his form room and clocked his age (mid-30s) and slightly dishevelled hair, I had felt the unmistakable stirrings of teenage lust.
No matter that I had just turned 16 and never had a proper boyfriend. This man, surely, was the man for me. And I was going to go all out to get him, no matter what it took."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz2TUogZjkm

Controversial article by Shona Sibary
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Old 17-05-2013, 09:28
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Celebrities in the dock and the affair with a teacher that makes me queasy about always blaming the older man

"From the first day of term when I walked into his form room and clocked his age (mid-30s) and slightly dishevelled hair, I had felt the unmistakable stirrings of teenage lust.
No matter that I had just turned 16 and never had a proper boyfriend. This man, surely, was the man for me. And I was going to go all out to get him, no matter what it took."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz2TUogZjkm

Controversial article by Shona Sibary
Oh my God - I wouldn't normally say I have a lot in common with Ms Sibary, but almost every aspect of her story is familiar to me, including the subject the teacher taught - except she had a sexual relationship with her teacher and I didn't (we kissed a couple of times, which was as far as the physical went, but it was no less intense for that - maybe more so than if he had taken full advantage of my 'love'.). Whilst the way the teachers handled their crush-ridden pupils, their ability to realise where the lines were and when they needed to be respected, were different in mine and Ms Sibary's cases... can we define it as abuse? This is where some of the definitions now, as opposed to then, are becoming grey and mixed up, and I have to wonder (genuinely wonder - that's not the same as doubt) if a number of the middle-aged women coming forward now, citing 'abuse' at the hands of someone famous 30, 40 years ago is looking back and getting lost in the greyness.

I must emphasise that I do not doubt that in the midst of all the greyness we are hearing about many awful cases of abuse that are sickening. I have two friends who were horribly sexually abused 30 years ago when they were young/mid teens and I know what abuse is in graphic detail I wish I didn't know. I also don't doubt that, for some of those looking back into the greyness of things that happened (similar to myself and Ms Sibary) it does feel 'wrong' (because, of course, it was in its way) but is it abuse in the way I understand it to be when I look at my two friends?

For me and my friends (and this is purely our own take formulated through years of talking) we think that the definition of 'abuse' mostly comes down to two variables: the actions of the person with the power (in my case, a teacher, but it could be a celebrity, a family member...) and the effects (positive and negative, short-term and longer-term) that that 'relationship' had/has had on the person who was caught up in the effects of that power.

The things is, only each individual person can make that decision because only they know how what happened to them has affected them. That's why it's such a grey area. That's why Ms Sibary sees what happened to her as not abuse, and yet other women looking back on similar experiences with different people, are possibly coming forward and saying they were abused. The complication comes from any who might be coming forward (hopefully the minority) who are deliberately 'mis-remembering' or 'jumping on the bandwagon' (it does happen - it's a way of seeking attention for those who are driven by that) yet knowing full well that what happened to them wasn't abuse and the person they are complaining about isn't an abuser in the sense of the word that someone living with the negative effects every day (like my friends) would recognise.

Maybe it's too basic a means of assessing if a past experience which involves sexual feeling/sexual conduct, kissing or whatever has been destructive and abusive or not, but to me and my friends the 'smile and memory test' helps put things in perspective. In other words, I can look back of what happened between me and my teacher and smile (I often re-read the diary I kept then and cringe!) but I was not, and am not harmed by it and my teacher didn't intend to use his power to control me and didn't intend to harm me. Did Ms Sibary's teacher intend to harm her by making their relationship sexual or was he just, as she says, a weak man? She seems to be happy to say it was the latter, but perhaps other girls would feel differently looking back and define their experience as something more harmful than Ms Sibary does. But my two friends who suffered what I know to be severe abuse can't look back and smile and they never will. There are no memories they want to keep of that time, yet they cannot get rid of them. They were harmed long-term, and their abusers both intended that to happen. They're in their mid-40s now, but it might as well have been yesterday because the affects are still there, as fresh as the time it happened.

An abuser has power without conscience, a total disregard for the well-being of the person they have focused that power on - they are driven by their own greed and need to serve their warped feelings and it destroys lives. I have to agree with her when she says that we shouldn't be thinking of lowering the age of consent - I have 18 and 15 year old daughters myself now, and they also say it shouldn't be lowered. Whilst it may only be a 'nominal' figure in these days of early sexual activity being more normal for some teenagers, it still affords some kind of protection and it does need to be there.
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Old 17-05-2013, 09:43
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Isn't Shona Sibary just another one of the troll writers a la Brick and Jones from the DM?

I very much doubt her above account has any basis in fact.
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Old 17-05-2013, 10:31
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Isn't Shona Sibary just another one of the troll writers a la Brick and Jones from the DM?

I very much doubt her above account has any basis in fact.
Like I say, I wouldn't normally say I had anything in common with her, but apart from the sleeping with him for 18 months bit, she could have lifted that story (whole phrases sometimes) from my teenage diary. And I'm not making that up! It reads as an extremely recognisable account.

The danger when we look at a journalist and dismiss them out of hand just because of their track record, is that we are in danger of missing things that may have more meaning/truth. It may be inappropriate to make this analogy, but weren't a lot of the girls at the school where Savile preyed on vulnerable pupils dismissed as 'not being truthful' because of their established reputations as trouble-makers and fantasists? Which is why when they did express genuine distress and concern about Savile's behaviour they weren't believed? The word 'troll' wasn't invented then in this context, but to use the modern vernacular, didn't some of the staff effectively dismiss them as 'regular trolls' and so miss the significance of the factual events when they happened, just as you have dismissed Ms Sibary as a 'regular troll' because of other things she has written you haven't liked/believed to be true? Can you honestly say that it's fair to dismiss everything she says as potentially untrue or made up just because of that? Or are you implying she is re-telling someone else's story and making it 'her' story and that's the bit you are doubting?

But the essence of what she's saying - to me it rings true in every single sentence, and reads as if I'd written it myself/published my diary online! (Other than the 18 month 'affair', that is - not that I'd have turned him down if he'd offered... I'd have married him if I could have, my teenage brain thinking I'd found the man of my dreams, regardless of the fact he was already married with two children!). There are some particular words and phrases which could only have come from the memories of someone who had experienced what is being described!
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Old 17-05-2013, 11:12
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Like I say, I wouldn't normally say I had anything in common with her, but apart from the sleeping with him for 18 months bit, she could have lifted that story (whole phrases sometimes) from my teenage diary. And I'm not making that up! It reads as an extremely recognisable account.

The danger when we look at a journalist and dismiss them out of hand just because of their track record, is that we are in danger of missing things that may have more meaning/truth. It may be inappropriate to make this analogy, but weren't a lot of the girls at the school where Savile preyed on vulnerable pupils dismissed as 'not being truthful' because of their established reputations as trouble-makers and fantasists? Which is why when they did express genuine distress and concern about Savile's behaviour they weren't believed? The word 'troll' wasn't invented then in this context, but to use the modern vernacular, didn't some of the staff effectively dismiss them as 'regular trolls' and so miss the significance of the factual events when they happened, just as you have dismissed Ms Sibary as a 'regular troll' because of other things she has written you haven't liked/believed to be true? Can you honestly say that it's fair to dismiss everything she says as potentially untrue or made up just because of that? Or are you implying she is re-telling someone else's story and making it 'her' story and that's the bit you are doubting?

But the essence of what she's saying - to me it rings true in every single sentence, and reads as if I'd written it myself/published my diary online! (Other than the 18 month 'affair', that is - not that I'd have turned him down if he'd offered... I'd have married him if I could have, my teenage brain thinking I'd found the man of my dreams, regardless of the fact he was already married with two children!). There are some particular words and phrases which could only have come from the memories of someone who had experienced what is being described!
Sorry, Jersey Porter, no offence intended to your post, your experience or the points you make, most of which I agree with - but she's a journo, perfectly capable of making up a credible story that would resonate with anyone who had a similar experience and viewed it, retrospectively, as Sibary has done. Unfair or not, her trolling preceeds her so if I dismiss her and what I see as her bandwagon-jumping, she has only herself to blame.

Re Sibary, I just can't summon up any interest in a journo who is prepared to troll for a living, regardless of what she has to say. Ditto Brick & Jones. Their trolling imo negates their right to be taken seriously.
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Old 17-05-2013, 12:17
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From the BBC website...

Watchdog quizzes North Yorkshire Police over Savile dealings


A police watchdog has asked North Yorkshire Police for information about contact officers had with Jimmy Savile.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said it was acting "in light of information received" and had asked the force to review "all relevant material".

Savile had a home in Scarborough, where he regularly spent time.

The watchdog said it wanted to know whether there were "conduct matters that should be referred to us".

A spokesman for the force said: "North Yorkshire Police is assisting the IPCC with the request."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-22566656
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Old 17-05-2013, 16:44
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Coronation Street's Michael Le Vell denies child sex charges
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-22556770
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Old 17-05-2013, 19:40
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Just one in nine police probes into child sex abuse led to conviction

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...#ixzz2TZopR6A2
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Old 17-05-2013, 22:21
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CPS considering 'guest house child abuse' charges

The Crown Prosecution Service has said it is considering whether to bring any charges in relation to Operation Fairbridge, a Met Police investigation into allegations of child abuse at a guest house in south-west London in the 1970s and 1980s.

"We are currently considering a file of evidence from the Metropolitan Police Service’s investigation into allegations of non-recent child abuse at the Grafton Close Children’s Home and Elm Guest House to determine whether any charges can be brought.

– CPS SPOKESPERSON"

Fairbridge? It's Fernbridge. Oh dear ITN!

http://www.itv.com/news/
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Old 17-05-2013, 22:43
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More Elm Guest House

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2...he-naypic-log/
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Old 17-05-2013, 23:34
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The IPCC aren't satisfied with that whitewash of a WYP report, thank goodness:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22573881
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Old 17-05-2013, 23:56
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The IPCC aren't satisfied with that whitewash of a WYP report, thank goodness:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22573881
I don't think thats the correct interpretation of the position at all. Unless the police make stuff up there just isn't anything to investigate.

That W word you keep parroting is getting a bit thin now. For one thing you can't possibly know if they're 'covering up' anything, and for another, they'd have no reason to.
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Old 18-05-2013, 05:57
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_17_05_2013/

Last night's Newsnight.

First item- whether the Independent Police Complaint Commission is up to the job. Interview with the boss, Dane Anne Owers.
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Old 19-05-2013, 13:56
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aedophile.html

Fourth Coronation Street star accused of being a paedophile 'may have preyed on girl, 12, as she hunted autographs'

i didn't know there was a third one, never heard of him i dont watch corrie that much
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Old 19-05-2013, 14:19
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Cardinal Keith O'Brien still a danger, say abuse accusers
Complaints of Vatican whitewash as O'Brien leaves Scotland for penance in exile
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-say-accusers


Sex-claim Rolf goes back on stage in first performance since his arrest... and tells his fans: 'I'm learning to dance in the rain'
He played to crowds at Bristol Hippodrome in first performance since arrest
Told audience: 'You have no idea what this means to have you all turn up'
He received a standing ovation amid cries of 'We love you Rolf!'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2ThYMCTJp
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Old 19-05-2013, 16:50
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Ray Langton's the new Corrie perv

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rage-girl.html
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Old 19-05-2013, 16:55
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Must admit I forgot about him!
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:14
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You mean he has been accused ?

I do have to say from reading the original cliams where no one was named I was expecting a far more serious case, now please before anyone jumps I am not syaing a man flashing is acceptable I am sure it could be very scary , but the way the story was written one could be forgiven for thinking this was far more than what is in the Mail today.

The original story stated in its headline

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aedophile.html

Fourth Coronation Street star accused of being a paedophile 'may have preyed on girl, 12, as she hunted autographs'
and

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...hile-quiz.html

His alleged indecent assault on the wide-eyed schoolgirl is said to have happened in the late 1960s — and her continuing trauma is so severe she even now involuntarily writes his name on scraps of paper.

Now as I say dont get me wrong if there is any truth in the flashing story its plain wrong, but am I wrong in thinking the original story made it sound as though the actor actually physically assaulted the girl and she has been traumatised for over 40 years ?

Now I am sure flashing comes under the charge of Indecent Exposure not Sexual Assault as the media would be fully aware and if they know this then they should be very clear when they start putting articles out there , escpecially when someone has not been charged .
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:37
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You mean he has been accused ?


Now I am sure flashing comes under the charge of Indecent Exposure not Sexual Assault as the media would be fully aware and if they know this then they should be very clear when they start putting articles out there , escpecially when someone has not beencharged .
As you say, only accused it seems, and not even arrested let alone charged. What on earth is going on with the media these days???
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:44
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As you say, only accused it seems, and not even arrested let alone charged. What on earth is going on with the media these days???
No disrespect to any of the alleged victims intended but they are a means to an end for the media , this scandal came at the right time for the media, they were facing the wrath of the public post Leveson then this came out, some may ask how long the media sat on it until a convenient moment ? This has given them it would seem carte blanche as people will want to know and have put Leveson out of their minds and the media will just write as they please .
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:17
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You mean he has been accused ?

I do have to say from reading the original cliams where no one was named I was expecting a far more serious case, now please before anyone jumps I am not syaing a man flashing is acceptable I am sure it could be very scary , but the way the story was written one could be forgiven for thinking this was far more than what is in the Mail today.

The original story stated in its headline

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aedophile.html

Fourth Coronation Street star accused of being a paedophile 'may have preyed on girl, 12, as she hunted autographs'
and

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...hile-quiz.html

His alleged indecent assault on the wide-eyed schoolgirl is said to have happened in the late 1960s — and her continuing trauma is so severe she even now involuntarily writes his name on scraps of paper.

Now as I say dont get me wrong if there is any truth in the flashing story its plain wrong, but am I wrong in thinking the original story made it sound as though the actor actually physically assaulted the girl and she has been traumatised for over 40 years ?

Now I am sure flashing comes under the charge of Indecent Exposure not Sexual Assault as the media would be fully aware and if they know this then they should be very clear when they start putting articles out there , escpecially when someone has not been charged .
The article doesn't actually say that Neville Buswell has been questioned by police, or even that the claim was about him.
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:40
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You're reading the wrong article.
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:53
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The article doesn't actually say that Neville Buswell has been questioned by police, or even that the claim was about him.
Neither did the article yesterday so I assume its referring to the same case or surely it would say Fifth Corrie star today

Yesterday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aedophile.html

A fourth Coronation Street star faces police questioning after being accused of preying on a 12-year-old girl

The victim is believed to have been interviewed by police in Devon, who passed the case on to Lancashire Police
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Old 19-05-2013, 20:01
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A blog by Peter Saunders, CEO, National Association of People Abused in Childhood.
http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.co.....html?spref=tw

"There is no legal requirement on anyone working with minors to report allegations or witnessed abuse of a child, including rape, to either the Local Authority Designated Officer LADO / Social Services, or the police. "
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Old 19-05-2013, 20:15
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MWT's Savile expose won a Peabody Award yesterday
http://peabodyawards.com/2013/03/72n...st-of-winners/
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