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Old 23-05-2013, 05:37
i4u
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In his evidence Shawn Trell told of an agreement with Michael Jackson for possibly 3 films. The agreement would have Jackson to get $1 million to develop a script for an AEG-owned film company. The initial project was connected to 'Thriller', June 2009 was the deadline for the offer of the agreement but no film company showed. AEG offered to extend the deadline for a another 3 months, but Jackson never signed the extension.

Trell was then asked by the AEG lawyer about cancellation insurance, Trell said it was only to recover costs..

We don’t secure cancellation insurance to secure anticipated profits
Trell told of difficulty obtaining cancellation insurance due to false media speculation that Michael had skin cancer. The insurance broker suggested a New York doctor who would carry out blood & urine tests, have a questionaire completed and review 5 years of Jackson's medical records.

Trell never saw the doctor's report but after the examination in early February 2009 the broker's words to Trell were...

Other than a slight case of hay fever, he passed with flying colors.
AEG Live were then obtained a $17.5 million cancellation policy for 30 of Jackson’s “This Is It” concerts at the 02. Michael was shown as 'Mark Jones' on the insurance policy, which Trell said was unusual in his experience.

On re-examination Brian Panish for the family asked Trell if he aws sure Michael signed the 'This Is It' contract on 26 January 2009. Trell conceeded he may have got the date wrong, at this point Panish produced the 'freak' emails.

Pannish asked is this the type of respect your lawyer (AEG's) showed to Michael.

Outside of the court Pannish said he was just getting started.
"That was just the tip of the iceberg," he said of the emails.
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Old 23-05-2013, 06:51
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ABC7 coverage of yesterday, more details of conditions attached to Conrad Murray's contract, also more on the insurance arragements.

Trell said there was no mention of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sleep disorder.
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Old 24-05-2013, 14:03
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Yesterday's coverage by ABC7 Court News.

Shawn Trell continues to be questioned by the families lawyer Brian Panish, with Katherine & Rebbie Jackson present.

Apparently there were mistakes in the contract drawn up for Conrad Murray drafted by Kathy Jorrie. Trell believed Michael asked AEG to engage Murray for him & his family on the tour.

Panish asked if a threat to lose $150,000 a month could exert pressure on anyone, Trell replied, 'I don't know that', he agreed to the suggestion AEG Live could have told Michael to hire his own doctor with his own money.

Panish questioned about a 20 minute phone call Randy Phillips had with Conrad Murray. Trell was asked if Michael Jackson had given permission for Murray to talk to Randy Phillips. Trell said he did not know. Panish asked if Phillips ever threatened Murray, Trell replied he did not know.

Panish drew attention to an email sent Pail Gongware sent to Murray pointing out AEG was the one paying him and what was expected of him.

In the agreement with Michael it was contemplated there would be more than 31 shows, if the artist approved. Trell confirmed they did not have written approval from Michael for 50 shows.

Panish moved on to questions about Tohme Tohme. Trell said he was to be paid a fee for whatever services Jackson wanted him to perform according to the agreement.

Trell was shown an email form Kathy Jorrie asking if Tohme was the 'real McCoy', recommending a background check be carried out. Trell did not know what Jorrie meant by the 'real McCoy', there was no reason to believe Dr. Tohme when he said he represented Michael Jackson.


Timm Wooley told Bob Taylor, Insurance broker in an email, Kenny Ortega only responsible for the show content & structure, Randy Phillips & Dr. Murray were responsible for Michael's rehearsal & attendance schedule. That there might have been an issue with Kenny Ortega not being demanding enough. Trell said he'd not seen the email before and said Wooley's statement was inaccurate, meaning Michael showed up when he wanted to.

Panish showed the Randy Phillip's email where he had concerns Michael may be unable to rise to the occasion. Trell was asked if Michael was pressured psychologically and needed to be checked. Trell said he did not know.

Again Panish asked if Michael was feeling pressuried, Trell pointed out the email said Michael was frightened. Asked ih was concerned about losing $34m Trell said there are always concerns but he did not feel anyone ever pressured Michael.

At this point Katherine Jackson exited the courtroom in tears being hugged by Rebbie Jackson. reporters told Katherine was too upset to attend afternoon session, Rebbie was present.

Panish queried if anyone was paid for the tour without fully executed contracts. Trell said not that he recalls.

An email from John Houghdahl, Production Director to Randy Phillips was produced by Panish...

My laymen's degree tells me he needs a shrink to get him mentally prepared to get on stage and then a trained to get him in physical shape... (Kobe's [Bryant ?] should be available) I have watched him deteriorated in front of my eyes over the last 8 weeks. He was able to do multiple 360 spins back in April. He'd fall on his ass if he tried it now.
Trell had not seen the email before, asked if AEG were trying to stall Dr. Murray in getting a contract, he said not to his knowledge.


Trell said they nothing in writing from Michael Jackson for costs in excess of $7.5m.

On April 14, 2009, Michael Jackson wrote a "Notice of Revocation of a Power of Attorney" that Tohme was no longer representing him.

Tohme signed a letter on 6/28/09 on behalf of MJ's company approving the expenses of $34 million to go to Jackson's estate.

Jessica Bina for AEG re-cross examined Trell, who said Murray's agreement required medical licenses in the US and UK. He would also need proof of insurance.

The requested medical equipment, CPR machine, saline, catheters, needles, gurney and other mutually approved medical equipment necessary, were not provided as Michael was required to sign the contract for Murray first.

Murray's contract was the only one that required Michael's signature.

Frank DiLeo also signed the expense report approved by Dr, Tohme. In a letter DiLeo confirmed Jackson had asked AEG Live to retain the services of Murray.


Trell told the court he felt there was no conflict of interest, Michael Jackson was hiring Murray and just using AEG's money. That AEG had entered a multi-faced, multi year agreement with Jackson and wanted nothing but for it to be successful. He testified, the Michael Jackson company, in first instance would be responsile to pay the money, which was guaranteed by Michael Jackson.

If Michael Jackson had any royalties AEG would have the rights on it to recoup money, but could not take an interest in his music catalogue.

In re-re-cross by Panish Trell did not know AEG paid Frank DiLeo $5m after Jackson died. He was not involved in approving such a payment.

Panish produced an email from Trell to Rick Webking dated 13 Oct 2009 approving $5m bucket. Trell explained that does not mean Frank DiLeo was paid $5m, he did say DiLeo was paid $50k relating to the movie.

Panish asked Trell if Randy Phillips ever called his doctor to see how he was going, the reply was 'no'.
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Old 24-05-2013, 14:59
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So do I. He engaged Murray as his doctor and was the one who had an addiction problem (which he tried to keep secret). The family are not dong MJ any favours here by trying to blame his death on the promotors. MJ obviously was under pressure but its the same for all perfomers. The fact remains that he is responsible for his own death.
The fact remains that he is not. Why do you think Conrad Murray was convicted?
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Old 27-05-2013, 15:28
brumilad
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So do I. He engaged Murray as his doctor and was the one who had an addiction problem (which he tried to keep secret). The family are not dong MJ any favours here by trying to blame his death on the promotors. MJ obviously was under pressure but its the same for all perfomers. The fact remains that he is responsible for his own death.
That may very well be... however that doesn't mean that there is no responsibility to be held elsewhere.

Michael has no legal responsibility because he has no legal position or right to prescribe any drug to anyone... including himself.He can ask for them till the cows come home but it's the person prescribing them who is the only person who has been given that responsibility.

And also there is responsibility of the employer who signed the contract with the doctor... because they're saying by employing him 'we have checked this Doctors credentials and trust he will provide you with the correct care'. If they employed the doctor with the intention for him to do as he's told for the sake of making sure the show goes on, instead of acting in the best interests of Jacko then they are also responsible. Because they have employed a person for the specific purpose of using his position of power to break or bend the rules and/or act in an improper way.

That's how the law works. Just because Michael Jackson was mega rich doesn't mean that the same rules don't apply to him and those that work with him.
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Old 28-05-2013, 19:29
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The fact remains that he is not. Why do you think Conrad Murray was convicted?
Of course Murray shouldn't have supplied him but he would have found another dealer. Do we blame the person who sold Amy Winehouse alchohol for her death?
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Old 28-05-2013, 22:18
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Of course Murray shouldn't have supplied him but he would have found another dealer. Do we blame the person who sold Amy Winehouse alchohol for her death?
If they injected it into her vein, yes.
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Old 29-05-2013, 06:04
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After a long weekend break Brian Panish the families lawyer called AEG Live executive Paul Gongaware to give evidence.

Here's a report from Associated Press.
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Old 29-05-2013, 07:50
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ABC7 Court News coverage of yesterday.

A summary. Katherine, Rebbie, Janet and Randy Jackson turned up at court but only 1 allowed to stay...which was Janet.

Paul Gongware Co-CEO of Concerts West, part of AEG Live is called to give evidence by the families lawyer.

Gongware said he worked on Elvis Presley tour. The lawyer for the family asked if Elvis died of drug overdose, and Gongaware said yes. Attention was drawn to Gongware's response to a condolences' email on July 5, 2009: "I was working on the Elvis tour when he died, so I kind of knew what to expect."

Gongaware had worked on the Dangerous tour in 92-93. Panish said Jackson made $100 million and donated it to charity. Gongaware said he didn't know.

The family lawyer Panish asked if he knew if Jackson had been to rehab during the dangerous tour? Gongaware said he knew, based on what Michael said after the tour.

Gongware testified he was not aware Jackson was involved with drugs till after the Dangerous Tour. Dr. Finkelstein had previously testified that Gongaware knew Jackson had problems with painkillers before the end of Dangerous tour ended. Gongware said he knew Michael had pain.

In his evidence Gongware said Dr . Finkelstein was his doctor and a friend known for over 30 years.

Panish questioned how many times and how long Gongware spent with lawyers to discuss his testimony.

Of the Bad Tour it was said Jackson sold out 10 stadiums at 75,000 tickets per night and it was the fastest selling concerts Gongware had seen in 2 hours, with initial presales of 31 shows sold.

In email dated 27 Feb 2009 from Gongaware to Randy Phillips he wrote...

We are holding all of the risk, if MJ won't t approve it we go without his approval. We let Mikey know just what it will cost him in terms of him making money, and the we go with or without him in London. We cannot be forced into stopping this, which MJ will try to do because he is lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants.
Gongware explained this was prior to a news conference due to be held in London and Michael Jackson not showing up. He said in London Jackson was constantly referred to as "wacko Jacko", which would impact marketing tickets. Gongware said Jackson didn't want to do that kind of thing, but it was important to show MJ to the world if he wanted to do a MJ show".

Gongware had the colour of Michael's schedule to show Michael he would not be working so hard. Gongware said he did not try to trick Michael, it was to present the schedule in the best possible light.

Panish showed an email 25 Mar 2009 from Randy Phillips to Gongware...

"We need to pull the plug now. I will explain."
Gongware thought it was a reference to Karen Faye, he did not recall ever discussing pulling the plug on the shows.

It was said by Gongware, Kenny (Ortega) did like the way Karen Faye handled situations, that Kenny did not like the way she tried to control access to Michael.

Previously on the same day Gongware had sent Phillips an email...

It's her (Faye) strong opinion this is dangerous/impractical w/ MJ's health/ability to perform Not sure what to send back...
It was to that email that Phillips responded with the "pull the plug" email.

In a deposition Gongware had said he'd been at the London press conference and Michael was in good shape. Randy Phillips had not told him Michael was drunk and despondent, just that he was having a hard time getting Michael going.

Regarding Conrad Murray, Gongware said he never hired him, Michael asked to retain Murray. Gongware understood from the insurance broker Bob Taylor Michael had passed the physical examination, Gongware did not see the results of the tests.

It was said Michael insisted on Murray and recommended him, which was good enough for Gongware it wasn't for him to tell Michael who his doctor should be.

Gongware said Murray initially asked for $5m to which Gongware said no way. Michael had suggested $150,000 a month, which Murray eventually accepted. Gongaware said that if tour went forward, Dr. Murray would've made $1.5 million for 10 months. Ortega would've made almost that.

One of Michael's nannies, Grace Rwamba was fired by Gongware because AEG was cutting down on MJ's expenses.

Gongware was there when Michael signed the contract with AEG but did not read he did not read it. Gongaware said he doesn't remember how many meetings he attended at Carolwood house. He didn't recall a meeting where a vase was broken.

At the meeting in June were, Kenny Ortego, Randy Phillips, Frank DiLeo, Dr. Murray and Michael Jackson. It was to make sure Michael & the doctor had everything they needed to care for Michael. At the meeting Michael was a little off having just come back from visiting Dr. Klein. Gongware thought Michael was under the influence of something.

The case continues....
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Old 29-05-2013, 11:29
haphash
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If they injected it into her vein, yes.
You can nitpick all you like but its obvious to me that Jackson would have obtained the drugs he wanted from someone else if Murray had declined. This, in my view, makes him culpable.
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Old 29-05-2013, 12:17
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You can nitpick all you like but its obvious to me that Jackson would have obtained the drugs he wanted from someone else if Murray had declined. This, in my view, makes him culpable.
He was an idiot for sure, but deserves the same protection from members of the medical profession as everyone else.
Also, it wasn't just a case of the drug being supplied, but Murray being out of the room for a long period of time, when the patient needed constant supervision.
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Old 29-05-2013, 12:22
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What does MJ donating $100million to charity (earnings from Dangerous concert tour) have to do with anything? It seems a bit of an odd thing for the family's lawyer to come out with.
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Old 29-05-2013, 13:27
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What does MJ donating $100million to charity (earnings from Dangerous concert tour) have to do with anything? It seems a bit of an odd thing for the family's lawyer to come out with.
Reinforcing his image as a great guy I suppose.
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Old 29-05-2013, 16:06
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What does MJ donating $100million to charity (earnings from Dangerous concert tour) have to do with anything? It seems a bit of an odd thing for the family's lawyer to come out with.
To show he's a good egg, while the others are mean as hell.

What Michael said he gave to charity didn't always add up.

Re The Dangerous Tour, it was the one where he went into rehab. For me the figures don't add up, as the money was said have gone to his Heal The World Foundation, but don't seem to show in the accounts.
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Old 29-05-2013, 16:13
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The family don't have evidence AEG had a contract with Murray, it was the only one that required Michael's signature, he hadn't signed. There's been no evidence produced of any payments to Murray by AEG, not even money in advance to purchase equipment.

The family seem left with portraying AEG as nasty and evil, and hope the jury take pity.
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Old 30-05-2013, 10:22
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Yesterday in court from Associated Press.

Paul Gongware continued giving evidence the family's lawyer Brian Panish asked whether he’d met with AEG’s attorneys to refresh his memory, to which Gongware replied, “It’s always been there.”

Parts of Paul Gongaware's video deposition were played to the court, in one part he described a meeting with Conrad Murray and Michael Jackson as being, "... about Dr. Murray and engaging him.” Gongware later testified 'him' meant Jackson.

Gongware was asked about the change and what he meant by engaged, he said, "Here I think we were talking about making sure Michael Jackson was engaged and focused,”

Gongaware thought they discussed Jackson’s nutrition, not his health at the meeting. Emails were produced were Gongware was shown to be seeking a Nutritionist and Physical Therapist for Jackson.

A couple of days before Michael's death Gongware had attended the 'Thriller' rehearsal. Asked if Kenny Oretago overreacted about Jackson's health issues Gongware said 'perhaps' and 'that I wasn’t concerned as he was'.
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Old 30-05-2013, 21:45
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Of course Murray shouldn't have supplied him but he would have found another dealer. Do we blame the person who sold Amy Winehouse alchohol for her death?
Well alcohol isn't a prescription drug. The person selling it has no legal obligation.

However if a 12 year old was to buy alcohol and die from it's effects, the person selling it would hold a responsibility for it... and going 'well if I hadn't of sold it to him the corner shop down the road would have done anyway' is no excuse.

In fact you've actually kind of explained the argument as to why AEG may hold some responsibility. If they employed Conrad Murray on the basis of 'If you don't prescribe it we'll find someone who will' then they have to face the music because they are employing a figure of trust and authority with a legal right most don't have and essentially bribing him into practicing in an improper way.

And that's what the main point of contention is... did AEG employ Conrad Murray and if so was it under their orders or pressure he acted illegally?
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Old 31-05-2013, 07:20
i4u
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But isn't selling alcohol to a 12 year old illegal, so that's why the person selling it would be before the courts?

Is Propofol illegal in Amercia, is it even a controlled substance?

If Murray was Jackson's doctor would AEG have the right to know what treatment he was giving or what had been demanded by Jackson?

Even if AEG had asked, would Murray & Jackson have just lied? At the 20 June 2009 meeting neither Michael or Murray seemed to offer up propofol was being used regularly at home.

No one, not even Murray seemed to know what treatment or drugs Klein was giving Jackson and also stylist Karen Faye said she obtained prescription drugs in her name for Jackson.
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Old 31-05-2013, 08:42
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Yesterday began with the family's lawyer Brian Panish continuing to question Paul Gongaware.

Travis Payne had expressed concerns regarding Michael Jacksons weight to which production manager John “Bugzee” Hougdahl responded...

He needs some cheeseburgers with a bunch of Wisconsin cheesehead bowlers... and a couple of brats and beers
Panish queried if AEG had insurance in the event that it loses the case Gongaware said it was his understanding that he wouldn’t be personally responsible financial.

Gongaware was asked if 'This Is It' was to have been a multi-city tour, he replied it was just to be the 50 shows in London. Later Panish read out part of what Gongaware said at Murray's trial, that the shows were to be a multi-city tour. Panish then asked, "Did you tell the truth when you testified in this case sir?” to which Gongaware replied yes.

There was discussion between the judge and lawyers, Brian Panish described AEG’s lawyers as disingenuous about when they were handing over documents. The judge said, "This is really a time-waster, really."

It was revealed an LA Attorney was still working on getting copies of files on Frank Di Leo's computer to both sets of Lawyers.

AEG attorney Marvin Putnam began questioning Gongaware, apparently AEG handed over 13,000 of his emails to Jackson lawyers.

Putnam went back to an email sent to Gongaware which he had claimed never to have seen. The email "trouble at the Front" had been sent to a private account. Putnam produced a document that showed the email account had been closed at the time the message was sent.

Gongaware biographer was gone over again, naming the artists he'd worked with and how he'd worked on the 'Dangerous' and 'HIStory' tours.

Gongaware described how he had been working for a promotions company and was assigned to work with Elvis's manager Col. Parker, providing tickets sales information.

Putnam asked about an email Gongaware sent after Jackson's death, "I was working for Elvis when he died so nothing came at me that I didn’t expect. Still, quite a shock."

Gongaware explained he was referring to people working on the tour who would lose their jobs, and the estate taking control over MJ's legacy, and no he not expect Michael to die.

Gongaware talked about the role of the estate after Elvis died, and what he expected to happen when Michael Jackson died, "Then the estate takes over, and everything’s different. You have nothing to say about anything."

Gongaware said he'd never heard of Propofol before Michael's death and on the 'Dangerous Tour' never saw the doctors treatment of Michael Jackson.
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Old 31-05-2013, 08:45
i4u
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ABC7 Court News has more details about yesterday.
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Old 31-05-2013, 09:08
honeythewitch
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Is Propofol illegal in Amercia, is it even a controlled substance? .
Yes. It is only used for anesthesia during operations and the patient needs continuous monitoring.

If Murray was Jackson's doctor would AEG have the right to know what treatment he was giving or what had been demanded by Jackson?
No, they wouldn't have the right to know because patient confidentiality can not be overridden.
In practice, and because it was Murray, it is very possible that they were informed.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:20
i4u
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Yes. It is only used for anesthesia during operations and the patient needs continuous monitoring.
Do you mean yes it's illegal ?

What I've read online suggests Propofol is not illegal to have or take?
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:51
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Paul Gongaware was back for more questioning by AEG's lawyer Marvin Putnam.

More details about working with Jackson on previous tours was given. On the HIStory tour Gongaware said on the second leg he worked directly Jackson and saw no signs of prescription drug abuse.

Gongaware did not recall there being a doctor on the HIStory tour. Jackson missed only one show on the tour, when Princess Diana died.

After the tour Paul Gongaware declined an offer from Michael Jackson to be his business manager.

Moving on to the 'This Is It' tour, Gongaware told of a series meetings with Jackson from early 2007, to begin with they did not discuss touring. AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips and Jackson’s manager, Tohme Tohme were said to have handled the initial tour negotiations.

The insurance broker Bob Taylor requested in February 2009 Michael Jackson have medical check ups every 3 weeks.

The insurers also wanted details on the concert set, dates, and other details that Gongaware said weren't decided on yet. The broker said the back to back shows would be a problem and suggested adding them once the tour had begun.

Describing the London press conference Gongaware said Jackson was 2 hours late but didn't seem drunk or impaired. Michael hugged Gongaware and asked for the words on the teleprompter to be big as he did not have his glasses.

Yesterday was a half day...the case continues.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:44
i4u
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ABC7 Court News has a more detailed account of yesterdays proceedings.

Here's an ABC7 summary and video of yesterday.

Regarding finances, it was said the 1st Leg of the 'HIStory Tour' had been over budget and Michael had lost $27 million, and was in debt $11 million to lighting and sound.

Michael changed managers for the 2nd leg and Gongaware became tour executive, the tour netted$14 million, $11 million paid vendors. The tour broke even according to Gongaware.

Peter Lopez, MJ's attorney, called Gongaware's partner in 2007 and asked to meet. Gongaware travelled to Las Vegas to meet Jackson in 2007, where they discussed how AEG handled tours. Michael wanted to do a King Tut mini-movie.

In 2008 Dr. Tohme, MJ's manager, approached AEG to discuss Jackson going back on tour. A possible Michael Jackson exhibition at the Hilton in Las Vegas was also discussed.

Gongaware said Colony Capital is an investment company had bought the mortgage on Neverland and Colony were trying to figure out what to do with the property.

AEG produced and promoted 'This Is It' because Jackson did not have the money to front the show. Tohme emphasized several times that Michael needed to make money.

Michael Jackson chose the name 'This Is It'. Because of 'the kid thing', AEG weren't sure how the tour would be received, they wanted the strongest market which was London.

31 shows were scheduled, there was demand in the presales and Gongaware asked if Jackson would do more than 50 shows, Tohme said Jackson would do 50 shows.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:21
honeythewitch
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Do you mean yes it's illegal ?

What I've read online suggests Propofol is not illegal to have or take?
You cant pop it in your basket at boots! so yes it is controlled.
it is only supplied to medical practices but is not on the scheduled drugs list.
I dont think there would be a need to include it because its misuse is rare and it needs continuous monitoring by medics, and to administer in an unregulated setting would be an offence ,because of the danger to the patient.
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