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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 27-05-2013, 07:05
i4u
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Why on earth the important cases like the North Wales care homes can't be dealt with before listening to women accusing celebs etc for what we do not know?
In theory the UK does not have a national police force, Yewtree is London based therefore a Met police led operation. If a reported incident happened outside London it is passed on to the local police to deal with.

Unless there was a London connection North Wales is not part of Yewtree, it's a separate investigation by local police.

One of the problems in North Wales are the claims made by a particular individual, which have been headline grabbing, but were at odds with the facts.
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Old 27-05-2013, 13:34
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max clifford

http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2013/04/yewtree-decision.html
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Old 27-05-2013, 16:15
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A former pupil at a school visited by shamed DJ Jimmy Savile has sparked a sex abuse investigation
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk...shamed-1915183
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Old 27-05-2013, 16:35
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Owen Jones on the Nick Ross book

Rape is rape. There are no mitigating circumstances or shades of grey
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...d-8632743.html
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Old 28-05-2013, 10:12
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I actually feel quite sorry for Nick Ross and the vilifying he is having at the moment. I read the complete chapter that the DM quoted sections of and found his comments sensible and thought provoking. Yes, rape is rape but how can you compare the violation of a woman dressed to titillate and who has drunk too much with the violation of a 12 year old girl dragged into bushes in broad daylight when she was on her way home? No one should be raped but I don't agree that it is so black and white. There is also the problem of women who get drunk, have sex but then cry rape when they realise what they have done. However, I shall keep further thoughts to myself as I can see an avalanche of complaints.

The Independent article also seems to have only read the DM extract and not the full chapter. I found this particularly offensive:
"Last year, West Mercia Police published a poster in support of its “Safe Night Out” campaign that suggested that rape survivors were responsible if they drunk too much. It showed a woman smiling in a nightclub, and then lying, dishevelled on the floor, with the warning “Don’t leave yourself more vulnerable to regretful sex or even rape. Drink sensibly and get home safely.” The problem isn’t, apparently, men who rape. Instead, women have to change their behaviour to stop tempting them. "

I actually don't find anything wrong with a poster campaign advising moderation in drinking and cannot connect the final two sentences with the poster words. Once again someone is reading words with his own interpretation. It is a bit like fundamental religionists - no matter the religion - who interpret the words of their book in their own way and we all know where that can lead. I do not subscribe to the "it is a woman's fault if she is raped" view but I do subscribe to the "drink in moderation so you are in control" view.

Please go and read the full chapter from the link posted earlier.
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:04
Jo March
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I actually feel quite sorry for Nick Ross and the vilifying he is having at the moment. I read the complete chapter that the DM quoted sections of and found his comments sensible and thought provoking. Yes, rape is rape but how can you compare the violation of a woman dressed to titillate and who has drunk too much with the violation of a 12 year old girl dragged into bushes in broad daylight when she was on her way home? No one should be raped but I don't agree that it is so black and white. There is also the problem of women who get drunk, have sex but then cry rape when they realise what they have done. However, I shall keep further thoughts to myself as I can see an avalanche of complaints.

The Independent article also seems to have only read the DM extract and not the full chapter. I found this particularly offensive:
"Last year, West Mercia Police published a poster in support of its “Safe Night Out” campaign that suggested that rape survivors were responsible if they drunk too much. It showed a woman smiling in a nightclub, and then lying, dishevelled on the floor, with the warning “Don’t leave yourself more vulnerable to regretful sex or even rape. Drink sensibly and get home safely.” The problem isn’t, apparently, men who rape. Instead, women have to change their behaviour to stop tempting them. "

I actually don't find anything wrong with a poster campaign advising moderation in drinking and cannot connect the final two sentences with the poster words. Once again someone is reading words with his own interpretation. It is a bit like fundamental religionists - no matter the religion - who interpret the words of their book in their own way and we all know where that can lead. I do not subscribe to the "it is a woman's fault if she is raped" view but I do subscribe to the "drink in moderation so you are in control" view.

Please go and read the full chapter from the link posted earlier.
From the Worcester News...

Don't blame the rape victims!

A police poster campaign in Worcester has caused fury after allegedly suggesting women who get drunk could be to blame if they are raped.

Jocelyn Anderson, chief officer at Worcestershire Rape and Sexual Assault Support Centre (WRSASC), said they had not been consulted on the artwork for West Mercia Police ’s recent Safe Night Out campaign.

She wants the force to remove the posters, one aimed at women and the other at men, which both feature the warning ‘Don’t let a night full of promise turn into a morning full of regrets’.

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/...rape_victims_/
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Old 28-05-2013, 11:15
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From the Worcester News...

Don't blame the rape victims!

A police poster campaign in Worcester has caused fury after allegedly suggesting women who get drunk could be to blame if they are raped.

Jocelyn Anderson, chief officer at Worcestershire Rape and Sexual Assault Support Centre (WRSASC), said they had not been consulted on the artwork for West Mercia Police ’s recent Safe Night Out campaign.

She wants the force to remove the posters, one aimed at women and the other at men, which both feature the warning ‘Don’t let a night full of promise turn into a morning full of regrets’.

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/...rape_victims_/
It seems that rape has a special place in some people minds that it is always wrong to suggest people can help protect themselves. I've never seen anyone complain about campaigns telling people to check the ID of officials knocking on their door, or complaints about advising people to cover the key pad when using cashpoints.

The victim is never to blame, however only the stupid think that the victim need not try to protect themselves.
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Old 28-05-2013, 12:42
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It seems that rape has a special place in some people minds that it is always wrong to suggest people can help protect themselves. I've never seen anyone complain about campaigns telling people to check the ID of officials knocking on their door, or complaints about advising people to cover the key pad when using cashpoints.

The victim is never to blame, however only the stupid think that the victim need not try to protect themselves.
I remember not so long back Joanna Lumley got slated for saying girls/ladies should take more care. As I said then whether we like it or not the simple fact is that women especially lone women are more at risk of rape than men, in an ideal world you should be able to walk home alone drunk and stark naked and not be hassled by anyone, but this world is just not like that and personally I see no harm in reminding someone of this.

A rapist is in the wrong and always will be , but until such time as they vanish off the face of the earth then people do have a certain amount of responsibility and a duty of care to themselves to not make it any easier for an attacker , and we are all male and female guilty of once having had a few drinks feeling more confident than when sober.

There are some who say this is wrong and women should be able to walk the streets without fear, yes they should , but sadly life is not like that right now so people have to take some care and think ahead . After all if you had a well lit street full of people and police and next to it a dark street where many rapes had occurred recently , common sense would tell you take the well lit street you shouldn't take the dark one just because you should be able to.

To me pointing out the risks and asking people(and yes especially ladies though men are at risk as well ) to take care is not blaming the victim or potential victim its simply reminding them to take care.
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Old 28-05-2013, 14:38
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Is this car illegally parked, on double red lines and at a crossing?

Publicist to the stars Max Clifford has pleaded not guilty today to 11 charges of indecent assault against teenage girls.

The 70-year-old millionaire, from Hersham in Surrey, is accused of charges relating to seven alleged victims, aged from 14 to 19, between 1966 and 1985.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...legations.html
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Old 28-05-2013, 22:22
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The former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre Jim Gamble has told ITV News that figures showing a rise in the number of reported child abuse images online was "deeply concerning".

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-...ly-concerning/


Child abuse allegations put off tourists

http://therightofreply.blogspot.co.u....html?spref=tw


Survivor of North Wales Child Abuse comes forward for the first time in a plea for justice

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/201....html?spref=tw
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Old 28-05-2013, 23:22
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The former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre Jim Gamble has told ITV News that figures showing a rise in the number of reported child abuse images online was "deeply concerning".

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-...ly-concerning/


Child abuse allegations put off tourists

http://therightofreply.blogspot.co.u....html?spref=tw


Survivor of North Wales Child Abuse comes forward for the first time in a plea for justice

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/201....html?spref=tw
I would say of course any abuse pictures are disturbing but the fact they are being reported is a good thing, maybe before people would have come across something by accident and said nothing but now realise how important it is to report them.

I dont think abuse or the like is increasing I think that it is that more people are prepared to report things these days which is a positive step forward.
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Old 28-05-2013, 23:34
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I think Max Clifford is innocent. I feel the same of Rolf Harris and Michael Le Vell. I obviously have no reason to presume innocence or guilt but it's just a vibe.
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Old 28-05-2013, 23:38
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It seems that rape has a special place in some people minds that it is always wrong to suggest people can help protect themselves. I've never seen anyone complain about campaigns telling people to check the ID of officials knocking on their door, or complaints about advising people to cover the key pad when using cashpoints.

The victim is never to blame, however only the stupid think that the victim need not try to protect themselves.
Agreed!

I think the problem is SOME feminists are borderline insane but are such loud mouths they manage to MAKE people listen to them and get them believing their point of view is not just the right one, but the only one.

I'm a feminist but I don't actually mingle with other feminists much as their lack of reasoning or willingness to listen to any point of view but ones in line with their own drives me 'round the bend. There is a lot of in-fighting in feminism.
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Old 29-05-2013, 02:22
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I think Max Clifford is innocent. I feel the same of Rolf Harris and Michael Le Vell. I obviously have no reason to presume innocence or guilt but it's just a vibe.
Having watched the tv interview with one of his alleged victims, the lady gave a convincing account of her time in London as a child. I found myself believing her story.

Not sure about MC.......11 charges all from different people through the 60's, 70's etc? Always felt he was creepy even before any of this came out. But that's just my feeling.
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Old 29-05-2013, 04:23
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A rare piece of good news
Facebook agrees to block sexual assault 'humour'

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/fa...mor-6C10094982
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Old 29-05-2013, 05:45
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Having watched the tv interview with one of his alleged victims, the lady gave a convincing account of her time in London as a child. I found myself believing her story.

Not sure about MC.......11 charges all from different people through the 60's, 70's etc? Always felt he was creepy even before any of this came out. But that's just my feeling.
I didn't know there was a TV interview with the alleged Rolf Harris victim - I'll have to track that down and hope I can pass some sort of fair judgement.

I've never had any reaction to MC apart from disliking the zeleb lifestyle he fuels. I'll need to wait until the trial to form a proper opinion on him, I suppose.

What do you feel about Michael Le Vell?
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Old 29-05-2013, 12:33
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I didn't know there was a TV interview with the alleged Rolf Harris victim - I'll have to track that down and hope I can pass some sort of fair judgement.

I've never had any reaction to MC apart from disliking the zeleb lifestyle he fuels. I'll need to wait until the trial to form a proper opinion on him, I suppose.

What do you feel about Michael Le Vell?
This is the problem with releasing names, when they're still being questioned. You try desperately to keep an open mind, but the immediate, "what if?" association has such an impact. It hits particularly hard, if you somehow think of them as "cosy" figures we know "well" from their regular appearances in our lounge. Yet.... no matter how familiar, charming or loveable, we simply don't know.

I'll admit when I heard Rolf's name mentioned for the first time, I was and remain incredulous. If the accusations are proven, then I'm simply devastated, because he was my idol as a child and inspired me enough to believe in my creativity which lead to the exciting path my life has taken today.
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Old 29-05-2013, 12:50
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A rare piece of good news
Facebook agrees to block sexual assault 'humour'

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/fa...mor-6C10094982
Good news indeed. Should have been done sooner. They still need to toughen up on hate pages and threatening stuff, though.
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Old 29-05-2013, 17:18
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Yes, rape is rape but how can you compare the violation of a woman dressed to titillate and who has drunk too much with the violation of a 12 year old girl dragged into bushes in broad daylight when she was on her way home?
Nobody I know (I am a feminist) "compares" them in he sense you mean. They both fall under the heading of rape, legally, but the punishment is very different.


I do not subscribe to the "it is a woman's fault if she is raped" view
I suppose we should be thankful for small mercies.
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Old 29-05-2013, 17:34
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Having watched the tv interview with one of his alleged victims, the lady gave a convincing account of her time in London as a child. I found myself believing her story.
Is that the one who was paid for the interview? (the same one who also had a paid magazine spread), or is there another accuser who has given a tv interview?
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Old 29-05-2013, 18:04
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I didn't know there was a TV interview with the alleged Rolf Harris victim - I'll have to track that down and hope I can pass some sort of fair judgement.

I've never had any reaction to MC apart from disliking the zeleb lifestyle he fuels. I'll need to wait until the trial to form a proper opinion on him, I suppose.

What do you feel about Michael Le Vell?
The interview was broadcast , I will put the link , in the current climate not sure if that is ok or not and will understand if DS delete it.

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2...n-rolf-harris/
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Old 29-05-2013, 18:08
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Is that the one who was paid for the interview? (the same one who also had a paid magazine spread), or is there another accuser who has given a tv interview?
Ms Lee sold her story to various outlets though the TV interview was exclusive at the time , the other lady Ms Martell who is apparantly a witness in another case did not get paid for her interviews

http://www.kiamaindependent.com.au/s...-harris-trial/
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Old 29-05-2013, 18:55
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A robust response to the Amanda Platell article
http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/201...rn-video-nsfw/
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Old 29-05-2013, 20:11
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[b]Having watched the tv interview with one of his alleged victims, the lady gave a convincing account of her time in London as a child. I found myself believing her story. [/B
]Not sure about MC.......11 charges all from different people through the 60's, 70's etc? Always felt he was creepy even before any of this came out. But that's just my feeling.
Me to unfortunately



Much as i dislike MC i have a feeling he may well be innocent ( could be wrong of course)

I Still think there is something not quite right about this investigation, maybe just my suspicious nature
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Old 29-05-2013, 20:31
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Barrister Barbara Hewson Stands By Age Of Consent Article And Criticises Yewtree 'Juggernaut'
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_3352797.html
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