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Madonna - Queen Of Plagiarism?


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Old 26-10-2012, 17:03
mushymanrob
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The Bananarama thing was Pete Waterman using Madonna's name to promote THEM. .
sounds about right, watertwit has made a living by pinching other people ideas.
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Old 09-07-2013, 17:54
Fear of Fours
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Well Madonna has actually been successfully sued for plagiarism multiple times in her career (Erotica, Hollywood, Sky Fits Heaven, Frozen, etc.); she’s even had songs and albums banned in some countries due to plagiarism. This is why I can’t help but laugh a little when Madonna fans are first in line to accuse other people of plagiarism. Stones in glass houses!

My problem with Madonna isn’t that she’s paid homages it’s the fact that she’s paid so many. She’s relied heavily on recycling ideas and paying homages for the majority of her career. It’s what the media and fans continue to refer to as “reinvention” and her so-called “constant revolving image”. What amazes me is she’s called a genius for simply recreating ideas, costumes, art direction, hair and make-up, etc. from decades before. How is it genius? Fans often argue that critics just don’t understand her “art” but it goes beyond that. It's shocking how quick Madonna fans are to criticise another artist for supposedly “stealing” something Madonna did even though she was hardly original in the first place. This is why Marlene Dietrich and Bette Davis despised Madonna with a passion. Madonna has taken her love for other people and their careers way too far.

These are just a few of the people Madonna paid “homage” to in her career, many of them within the first ten years (and often multiple times):

Greta Garbo, Jean Harlow, Jayne Mansfield, Jane Russell, Gina Lollobrigida, Marilyn Monroe, Marlene Dietrich, Bette Davis, Brigitte Bardot, Katherine Hepburn, Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Ann-Margret, Sophia Loren, Jean Seberg, Sue Lyon, Bettie Page, Debbie Harry, Liza Minnelli, Louise Brooks, Marlon Brando, Thelma Todd, Andy Warhol, Grace Kelly, Carole Lombard, Donna Summer, Veronica Lake, Joan Crawford, Rita Hayworth, James Dean, Shirley MacLaine, Dale Bozzio, Nastassja Kinski, Tina Turner, Gwen Wong, Horst P. Horst, Dita Parloner, Wendy O Williams, Ernest Bachrach, Ken Russell, Fritz Lang, Philip Kaufman, etc.

How many people does one person want to pay homage to?

One of the biggest influences on Madonna has undoubtedly been Marilyn Monroe. Madonna has paid so many homages to Marilyn over the years that the line between admiration and obsession has become blurred. She’s devoured so many of Marilyn’s iconic looks and mannerisms and simply recreated them at various points in her career. Everybody’s aware of the “Material Girl” music video and the lame Oscar performance in 1991 but it’s much, much more than that. She’s become a walking, talking Marilyn Monroe tribute act, dressing up as her in everything from music videos to fashion shoots to single covers to live performances to TV performances to magazine spreads and pictures. How is this clever or genius? To do it once or twice is OK, to do it literally dozens upon dozens of times is simply lazy and uninspired. Even Madonna’s hair and outfit in the “Open Your Heart” video was blatantly lifted from Marilyn in the 1960 film “Let’s Make Love”. The “Give It 2 Me” video (the rope, the outfit) was also heavily influenced by Marilyn . It's funny how it's always Madonna fans who criticise other people who pay, or have paid, the odd tribute to Marilyn at some point in their careers. Hmmm....

The whole “Vogue” period is simply recycled ideas from other people:

- The song itself is actually a blatant rip-off of the 1989 song “Deep in Vogue” by Malcolm McLaren.
- The music video is a homage (yes another) to photographer Horst P. Horst and actresses Carole Lombard and Katherine Hepburn. Madonna literally copied imagery exactly.
- The “iconic” dress that Madonna wore in the music video is in fact the exact same dress Nastassja Kinski wore in a 1983 fashion shoot.
- The Vogue single cover artwork is in fact simply a recreation of a photo of Marilyn Monroe in her underwear from the 1950s.

A whole period in Madonna’s career that’s deemed iconic is nothing more than a cut-paste job from other people’s ideas. Genius? Hardly.

The famous cone bra Madonna wore on her Blond Ambition Tour was simply a recreation of a cone bra Bettie Page wore in the 1950s. Most of the content in Madonna’s 1992 Sex book (as well as several performance costumes/ideas) was also lifted from Irving Klaw’s work with Bettie Page in the 1950s. Madonna literally copied art direction, scenery, poses and looks from Bettie Page pictures in exact detail in the Sex book. It amazes me how many call the Sex book groundreaking and important for women. It was groundreaking in the 1950s when Bettie Page did it first; she was the first female bondage model.

Marlene Dietrich was one of the first women who really broke ground at the height of her fame in the entertainment industry. She dressed up in a man’s suit in the 1930 film “Morocco”, something Madonna has done several times in her career and subsequently been hailed a genius for it. Then there's the famous picture of Marlene with the cigarette between her lips that Madonna copied, as well as the outfit she wore during the "Express Yourself" performance on The Girlie Show Tour. People like Marlene and Bette Davis were the first true trailblazers in Hollywood, they pushed boundaries and took huge risks for women at the time and were heavily criticised as a consequence. This wasn’t the modern day when such things were seen as more acceptable, this was back when a woman’s career in Hollywood could have been blacklisted or even ended for the smallest and simplest of reasons. The expectations of women were simply a lot different back then. Madonna has been called groundreaking for simply recreating what Marlene, Bette and many other old time Hollywood stars did decades ago. It’s not groundbreaking in my eyes. It’s even worse when one realises how many people give Madonna all the credit and either ignore or disregard people like Marlene and Bette and their influence on pop culture. I wouldn’t disregard them; Madonna certainly saw them as important enough to rehash their work.

She’s also clever in that she often lifts ideas from lesser-known people so it will go under the radar, the 2007 "Solo" album cover by Sergio Lagos being a good example. Her famous 1984 performance at the MTV Video Music Awards was hardly original, especially since both Debbie Harry and Donna Summer performed on stage in the 1970s dressed as virgin brides in wedding dresses. Even the "Like a Virgin" album cover is lifted from Donna Summer. Dale Bozzio was also a big influence behind Madonna's supposedly iconic look in the early to mid-1980s. The “Confessions” era was a cooking pot of other people’s ideas - Tina Turner, Ken Russell's "Tommy" and "Mahler", Ann Margret, Goldfrapp (Alison Goldfrapp has talked openly about her dislike for Madonna), Donna Summer, The Love Kylie lingerie advert campaign was the inspiration behind the photograph of Madonna sitting in front of the mirror with the two reflections. I remember Madonna fans criticising Lady Gaga after she supposedly ripped off the “True Blue” album cover. Well Madonna got that from Greta Garbo. Her fans also ripped Gaga a new one after she got a bob haircut (apparently Madonna invented those) that was supposedly like the one Madonna sported in the early 1990s. Well Madonna's slick, black bob hair cut (like the one on the "Keep It Together" single cover) was inspired heavily by Louise Brooks, as were poses , clothes and art direction in several photo shoots taken during the time. The "Bedtime Stories" era was simply recycled Jean Harlow imagery. Where's the originality? Why does everything always have to be a homage? Even Bjork spoke out about how uncomfortable she was with Madonna singing like her on the song "Bedtime Story" and dressing up like her in the music video. Just because Bjork wrote the track with Nelle Hooper and Marius De Vries doesn't mean that Madonna had to literally "Bjork herself up".

There are many websites out there that focus on Madonna and her on-going fondness for homage and blatant plagiarism. Many of the things included on the websites aren't what I would necessarily call plagiarism, but there are a lot of things that are good examples of how blatantly unoriginal Madonna has been in her career. A lot of Madonna fans are just so obnoxious and blinded that they will never admit it. These are the same fans who will resort to listing superficial things like how many records she's sold, how much money her tours have grossed , how many number one singles she's had on the Hot 100, etc. as though it proves some kind of point or validates her and whatever little talent she has. They do this because it's all they really have. She’s one of the most overrated, overexposed frauds in the music industry, has been since day one. It amazes me how many sheep insist she was the first to do everything. She wasn’t. She can't sing, she can't write or produce music without help from gifted songwriters and producers, she can't act nor has she ever been particularly beautiful. She's damn lucky to have had the career she's had.

The bottom line:

When Madonna pays yet another homage it's "inspiration".
When another artist does the same thing Madonna fans call it "copying" or "plagiarism".

Hypocrite much?
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Old 09-07-2013, 19:55
glyn9799
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Not read the whole thread, but I remember a few years back (just before Hung Up was released I think) she was successfully sued in Belgium for plagiarising 'Frozen'. I seem to remember hearing the plagiarised clip in question and it was just a ridiculous comparison. I'm surprised she didn't fight it although she probably couldn't be arsed. I do believe sales of both that track and Ray of Light the album are banned in the country.

Also, the Goldfrapp/'Sorry' cover comparison from the OPs link is total rubbish. The 'Sorry' cover was a fan photograph taken from one of Madonnas live shows and that face pose is quite clearly incidental. The original can be found on Google images (what a different photoshop can make! )

http://www.mad-eyes.net/tours/hung-u...gaycoadf30.jpg
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Old 09-07-2013, 20:43
Soupietwist
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The sad thing about Gaga is she could be much more. She is far more musically talented than Madonna was, is and will be - but she mostly chooses to throw this talent away being a Madonna clone. Out of all the crappy auto tuned, over produced throw away popstrels polluting the charts Gaga should and could be so much more, she actually has genuine talent.
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Old 09-07-2013, 21:15
RetroMusicFan
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Well Madonna has actually been successfully sued for plagiarism multiple times in her career (Erotica, Hollywood, Sky Fits Heaven, Frozen, etc.); she’s even had songs and albums banned in some countries due to plagiarism. This is why I can’t help but laugh a little when Madonna fans are first in line to accuse other people of plagiarism. Stones in glass houses!

My problem with Madonna isn’t that she’s paid homages it’s the fact that she’s paid so many. She’s relied heavily on recycling ideas and paying homages for the majority of her career. It’s what the media and fans continue to refer to as “reinvention” and her so-called “constant revolving image”. What amazes me is she’s called a genius for simply recreating ideas, costumes, art direction, hair and make-up, etc. from decades before. How is it genius? Fans often argue that critics just don’t understand her “art” but it goes beyond that. It's shocking how quick Madonna fans are to criticise another artist for supposedly “stealing” something Madonna did even though she was hardly original in the first place. This is why Marlene Dietrich and Bette Davis despised Madonna with a passion. Madonna has taken her love for other people and their careers way too far.

These are just a few of the people Madonna paid “homage” to in her career, many of them within the first ten years (and often multiple times):

Greta Garbo, Jean Harlow, Jayne Mansfield, Jane Russell, Gina Lollobrigida, Marilyn Monroe, Marlene Dietrich, Bette Davis, Brigitte Bardot, Katherine Hepburn, Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Ann-Margret, Sophia Loren, Jean Seberg, Sue Lyon, Bettie Page, Debbie Harry, Liza Minnelli, Louise Brooks, Marlon Brando, Thelma Todd, Andy Warhol, Grace Kelly, Carole Lombard, Donna Summer, Veronica Lake, Joan Crawford, Rita Hayworth, James Dean, Shirley MacLaine, Dale Bozzio, Nastassja Kinski, Tina Turner, Gwen Wong, Horst P. Horst, Dita Parloner, Wendy O Williams, Ernest Bachrach, Ken Russell, Fritz Lang, Philip Kaufman, etc.

How many people does one person want to pay homage to?

One of the biggest influences on Madonna has undoubtedly been Marilyn Monroe. Madonna has paid so many homages to Marilyn over the years that the line between admiration and obsession has become blurred. She’s devoured so many of Marilyn’s iconic looks and mannerisms and simply recreated them at various points in her career. Everybody’s aware of the “Material Girl” music video and the lame Oscar performance in 1991 but it’s much, much more than that. She’s become a walking, talking Marilyn Monroe tribute act, dressing up as her in everything from music videos to fashion shoots to single covers to live performances to TV performances to magazine spreads and pictures. How is this clever or genius? To do it once or twice is OK, to do it literally dozens upon dozens of times is simply lazy and uninspired. Even Madonna’s hair and outfit in the “Open Your Heart” video was blatantly lifted from Marilyn in the 1960 film “Let’s Make Love”. The “Give It 2 Me” video (the rope, the outfit) was also heavily influenced by Marilyn . It's funny how it's always Madonna fans who criticise other people who pay, or have paid, the odd tribute to Marilyn at some point in their careers. Hmmm....

The whole “Vogue” period is simply recycled ideas from other people:

- The song itself is actually a blatant rip-off of the 1989 song “Deep in Vogue” by Malcolm McLaren.
- The music video is a homage (yes another) to photographer Horst P. Horst and actresses Carole Lombard and Katherine Hepburn. Madonna literally copied imagery exactly.
- The “iconic” dress that Madonna wore in the music video is in fact the exact same dress Nastassja Kinski wore in a 1983 fashion shoot.
- The Vogue single cover artwork is in fact simply a recreation of a photo of Marilyn Monroe in her underwear from the 1950s.

A whole period in Madonna’s career that’s deemed iconic is nothing more than a cut-paste job from other people’s ideas. Genius? Hardly.

The famous cone bra Madonna wore on her Blond Ambition Tour was simply a recreation of a cone bra Bettie Page wore in the 1950s. Most of the content in Madonna’s 1992 Sex book (as well as several performance costumes/ideas) was also lifted from Irving Klaw’s work with Bettie Page in the 1950s. Madonna literally copied art direction, scenery, poses and looks from Bettie Page pictures in exact detail in the Sex book. It amazes me how many call the Sex book groundreaking and important for women. It was groundreaking in the 1950s when Bettie Page did it first; she was the first female bondage model.

Marlene Dietrich was one of the first women who really broke ground at the height of her fame in the entertainment industry. She dressed up in a man’s suit in the 1930 film “Morocco”, something Madonna has done several times in her career and subsequently been hailed a genius for it. Then there's the famous picture of Marlene with the cigarette between her lips that Madonna copied, as well as the outfit she wore during the "Express Yourself" performance on The Girlie Show Tour. People like Marlene and Bette Davis were the first true trailblazers in Hollywood, they pushed boundaries and took huge risks for women at the time and were heavily criticised as a consequence. This wasn’t the modern day when such things were seen as more acceptable, this was back when a woman’s career in Hollywood could have been blacklisted or even ended for the smallest and simplest of reasons. The expectations of women were simply a lot different back then. Madonna has been called groundreaking for simply recreating what Marlene, Bette and many other old time Hollywood stars did decades ago. It’s not groundbreaking in my eyes. It’s even worse when one realises how many people give Madonna all the credit and either ignore or disregard people like Marlene and Bette and their influence on pop culture. I wouldn’t disregard them; Madonna certainly saw them as important enough to rehash their work.

She’s also clever in that she often lifts ideas from lesser-known people so it will go under the radar, the 2007 "Solo" album cover by Sergio Lagos being a good example. Her famous 1984 performance at the MTV Video Music Awards was hardly original, especially since both Debbie Harry and Donna Summer performed on stage in the 1970s dressed as virgin brides in wedding dresses. Even the "Like a Virgin" album cover is lifted from Donna Summer. Dale Bozzio was also a big influence behind Madonna's supposedly iconic look in the early to mid-1980s. The “Confessions” era was a cooking pot of other people’s ideas - Tina Turner, Ken Russell's "Tommy" and "Mahler", Ann Margret, Goldfrapp (Alison Goldfrapp has talked openly about her dislike for Madonna), Donna Summer, The Love Kylie lingerie advert campaign was the inspiration behind the photograph of Madonna sitting in front of the mirror with the two reflections. I remember Madonna fans criticising Lady Gaga after she supposedly ripped off the “True Blue” album cover. Well Madonna got that from Greta Garbo. Her fans also ripped Gaga a new one after she got a bob haircut (apparently Madonna invented those) that was supposedly like the one Madonna sported in the early 1990s. Well Madonna's slick, black bob hair cut (like the one on the "Keep It Together" single cover) was inspired heavily by Louise Brooks, as were poses , clothes and art direction in several photo shoots taken during the time. The "Bedtime Stories" era was simply recycled Jean Harlow imagery. Where's the originality? Why does everything always have to be a homage? Even Bjork spoke out about how uncomfortable she was with Madonna singing like her on the song "Bedtime Story" and dressing up like her in the music video. Just because Bjork wrote the track with Nelle Hooper and Marius De Vries doesn't mean that Madonna had to literally "Bjork herself up".

There are many websites out there that focus on Madonna and her on-going fondness for homage and blatant plagiarism. Many of the things included on the websites aren't what I would necessarily call plagiarism, but there are a lot of things that are good examples of how blatantly unoriginal Madonna has been in her career. A lot of Madonna fans are just so obnoxious and blinded that they will never admit it. These are the same fans who will resort to listing superficial things like how many records she's sold, how much money her tours have grossed , how many number one singles she's had on the Hot 100, etc. as though it proves some kind of point or validates her and whatever little talent she has. They do this because it's all they really have. She’s one of the most overrated, overexposed frauds in the music industry, has been since day one. It amazes me how many sheep insist she was the first to do everything. She wasn’t. She can't sing, she can't write or produce music without help from gifted songwriters and producers, she can't act nor has she ever been particularly beautiful. She's damn lucky to have had the career she's had.

The bottom line:

When Madonna pays yet another homage it's "inspiration".
When another artist does the same thing Madonna fans call it "copying" or "plagiarism".

Hypocrite much?
Finished?

I guess that's one vote for plagiarism then?
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Old 09-07-2013, 22:12
scrilla
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Finished?

I guess that's one vote for plagiarism then?
Tackling at least some of the points made there might make for a more valid response than a brief burst of sarcasm.
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:12
RetroMusicFan
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Tackling at least some of the points made there might make for a more valid response than a brief burst of sarcasm.
I just couldn't be bothered writing a great big response that the poster might not read anyway.

I asked for opinions and I got them, good, bad and extremely scathing, anything I say in defence of Madonna would have been in vain because the poster has made their opinion of her (and her fans) loud and crystal clear!
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:19
wizzywick
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Well Madonna has actually been successfully sued for plagiarism multiple times in her career (Erotica, Hollywood, Sky Fits Heaven, Frozen, etc.); she’s even had songs and albums banned in some countries due to plagiarism. This is why I can’t help but laugh a little when Madonna fans are first in line to accuse other people of plagiarism. Stones in glass houses!

My problem with Madonna isn’t that she’s paid homages it’s the fact that she’s paid so many. She’s relied heavily on recycling ideas and paying homages for the majority of her career. It’s what the media and fans continue to refer to as “reinvention” and her so-called “constant revolving image”. What amazes me is she’s called a genius for simply recreating ideas, costumes, art direction, hair and make-up, etc. from decades before. How is it genius? Fans often argue that critics just don’t understand her “art” but it goes beyond that. It's shocking how quick Madonna fans are to criticise another artist for supposedly “stealing” something Madonna did even though she was hardly original in the first place. This is why Marlene Dietrich and Bette Davis despised Madonna with a passion. Madonna has taken her love for other people and their careers way too far.

These are just a few of the people Madonna paid “homage” to in her career, many of them within the first ten years (and often multiple times):

Greta Garbo, Jean Harlow, Jayne Mansfield, Jane Russell, Gina Lollobrigida, Marilyn Monroe, Marlene Dietrich, Bette Davis, Brigitte Bardot, Katherine Hepburn, Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Ann-Margret, Sophia Loren, Jean Seberg, Sue Lyon, Bettie Page, Debbie Harry, Liza Minnelli, Louise Brooks, Marlon Brando, Thelma Todd, Andy Warhol, Grace Kelly, Carole Lombard, Donna Summer, Veronica Lake, Joan Crawford, Rita Hayworth, James Dean, Shirley MacLaine, Dale Bozzio, Nastassja Kinski, Tina Turner, Gwen Wong, Horst P. Horst, Dita Parloner, Wendy O Williams, Ernest Bachrach, Ken Russell, Fritz Lang, Philip Kaufman, etc.

How many people does one person want to pay homage to?

One of the biggest influences on Madonna has undoubtedly been Marilyn Monroe. Madonna has paid so many homages to Marilyn over the years that the line between admiration and obsession has become blurred. She’s devoured so many of Marilyn’s iconic looks and mannerisms and simply recreated them at various points in her career. Everybody’s aware of the “Material Girl” music video and the lame Oscar performance in 1991 but it’s much, much more than that. She’s become a walking, talking Marilyn Monroe tribute act, dressing up as her in everything from music videos to fashion shoots to single covers to live performances to TV performances to magazine spreads and pictures. How is this clever or genius? To do it once or twice is OK, to do it literally dozens upon dozens of times is simply lazy and uninspired. Even Madonna’s hair and outfit in the “Open Your Heart” video was blatantly lifted from Marilyn in the 1960 film “Let’s Make Love”. The “Give It 2 Me” video (the rope, the outfit) was also heavily influenced by Marilyn . It's funny how it's always Madonna fans who criticise other people who pay, or have paid, the odd tribute to Marilyn at some point in their careers. Hmmm....

The whole “Vogue” period is simply recycled ideas from other people:

- The song itself is actually a blatant rip-off of the 1989 song “Deep in Vogue” by Malcolm McLaren.
- The music video is a homage (yes another) to photographer Horst P. Horst and actresses Carole Lombard and Katherine Hepburn. Madonna literally copied imagery exactly.
- The “iconic” dress that Madonna wore in the music video is in fact the exact same dress Nastassja Kinski wore in a 1983 fashion shoot.
- The Vogue single cover artwork is in fact simply a recreation of a photo of Marilyn Monroe in her underwear from the 1950s.

A whole period in Madonna’s career that’s deemed iconic is nothing more than a cut-paste job from other people’s ideas. Genius? Hardly.

The famous cone bra Madonna wore on her Blond Ambition Tour was simply a recreation of a cone bra Bettie Page wore in the 1950s. Most of the content in Madonna’s 1992 Sex book (as well as several performance costumes/ideas) was also lifted from Irving Klaw’s work with Bettie Page in the 1950s. Madonna literally copied art direction, scenery, poses and looks from Bettie Page pictures in exact detail in the Sex book. It amazes me how many call the Sex book groundreaking and important for women. It was groundreaking in the 1950s when Bettie Page did it first; she was the first female bondage model.

Marlene Dietrich was one of the first women who really broke ground at the height of her fame in the entertainment industry. She dressed up in a man’s suit in the 1930 film “Morocco”, something Madonna has done several times in her career and subsequently been hailed a genius for it. Then there's the famous picture of Marlene with the cigarette between her lips that Madonna copied, as well as the outfit she wore during the "Express Yourself" performance on The Girlie Show Tour. People like Marlene and Bette Davis were the first true trailblazers in Hollywood, they pushed boundaries and took huge risks for women at the time and were heavily criticised as a consequence. This wasn’t the modern day when such things were seen as more acceptable, this was back when a woman’s career in Hollywood could have been blacklisted or even ended for the smallest and simplest of reasons. The expectations of women were simply a lot different back then. Madonna has been called groundreaking for simply recreating what Marlene, Bette and many other old time Hollywood stars did decades ago. It’s not groundbreaking in my eyes. It’s even worse when one realises how many people give Madonna all the credit and either ignore or disregard people like Marlene and Bette and their influence on pop culture. I wouldn’t disregard them; Madonna certainly saw them as important enough to rehash their work.

She’s also clever in that she often lifts ideas from lesser-known people so it will go under the radar, the 2007 "Solo" album cover by Sergio Lagos being a good example. Her famous 1984 performance at the MTV Video Music Awards was hardly original, especially since both Debbie Harry and Donna Summer performed on stage in the 1970s dressed as virgin brides in wedding dresses. Even the "Like a Virgin" album cover is lifted from Donna Summer. Dale Bozzio was also a big influence behind Madonna's supposedly iconic look in the early to mid-1980s. The “Confessions” era was a cooking pot of other people’s ideas - Tina Turner, Ken Russell's "Tommy" and "Mahler", Ann Margret, Goldfrapp (Alison Goldfrapp has talked openly about her dislike for Madonna), Donna Summer, The Love Kylie lingerie advert campaign was the inspiration behind the photograph of Madonna sitting in front of the mirror with the two reflections. I remember Madonna fans criticising Lady Gaga after she supposedly ripped off the “True Blue” album cover. Well Madonna got that from Greta Garbo. Her fans also ripped Gaga a new one after she got a bob haircut (apparently Madonna invented those) that was supposedly like the one Madonna sported in the early 1990s. Well Madonna's slick, black bob hair cut (like the one on the "Keep It Together" single cover) was inspired heavily by Louise Brooks, as were poses , clothes and art direction in several photo shoots taken during the time. The "Bedtime Stories" era was simply recycled Jean Harlow imagery. Where's the originality? Why does everything always have to be a homage? Even Bjork spoke out about how uncomfortable she was with Madonna singing like her on the song "Bedtime Story" and dressing up like her in the music video. Just because Bjork wrote the track with Nelle Hooper and Marius De Vries doesn't mean that Madonna had to literally "Bjork herself up".

There are many websites out there that focus on Madonna and her on-going fondness for homage and blatant plagiarism. Many of the things included on the websites aren't what I would necessarily call plagiarism, but there are a lot of things that are good examples of how blatantly unoriginal Madonna has been in her career. A lot of Madonna fans are just so obnoxious and blinded that they will never admit it. These are the same fans who will resort to listing superficial things like how many records she's sold, how much money her tours have grossed , how many number one singles she's had on the Hot 100, etc. as though it proves some kind of point or validates her and whatever little talent she has. They do this because it's all they really have. She’s one of the most overrated, overexposed frauds in the music industry, has been since day one. It amazes me how many sheep insist she was the first to do everything. She wasn’t. She can't sing, she can't write or produce music without help from gifted songwriters and producers, she can't act nor has she ever been particularly beautiful. She's damn lucky to have had the career she's had.

The bottom line:

When Madonna pays yet another homage it's "inspiration".
When another artist does the same thing Madonna fans call it "copying" or "plagiarism".

Hypocrite much?
And here you are! plagiarising Bedtime Stories. At last when I can't sleep I have something long, dull and exaggerated to read. Thank you for that.
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:20
Declan_Khan
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I disagree. She is not a puppet. Madonna does her own style all her self. She is inspired by old movie stars, mainly Marilyn
... except for the fact she has hired Gianni Versace, Donatella Versace, Jean Paul Gaultier, Paul McQueen, Alexander McQueen and many more in her career which disproves that assertion thoroughly. She even raps about all the goddamn people she has working for her on American Life.
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:23
wizzywick
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Madonna has spent her whole career being derivative. Or should I say her stylists and producers, because it's them that come up with her looks and sound, not her. The only things that sounded fairly original at the time were the True Blue and Ray Of Light albums, and that was thanks to Bray, Leonard, and William Orbit. She has released some killer pop songs in the past though, I'll give her that. She does deserve her fame.
Actually, during her early career, under the management of Freddy DeMann, Madonna called the shots. She was the creative influence in her life and she worked closely with her brother Christopher to achieve her goals.

Under the management of Guy O'Seary she has become a shadow of her former self. He uses her as his marionette and sadly she lets him. Motherhood I think has made her less ambitious so perhaps she is happy to be less controversial and just to go with the flow.
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Old 09-07-2013, 23:48
Zone_Out
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Hardly. That title goes to Beyonce

Anyone who is aware of Madonna's career knows she has been hugely influenced by Marilyn monroe in her early career. Hardly plagarism. More of a tribute. She is the only person I know to pay tribute to Marilyn in such a sexy sophisticated way.
THIS!!!!
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Old 10-07-2013, 00:32
Gigi4
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... except for the fact she has hired Gianni Versace, Donatella Versace, Jean Paul Gaultier, Paul McQueen, Alexander McQueen and many more in her career which disproves that assertion thoroughly. She even raps about all the goddamn people she has working for her on American Life.
Well of course, she doesn't design the clothes herself because she's a singer and songwriter not a fashion designer. But she decides herself which of their clothes to wear and for her tours she directs them on what type of costumes she wants and they do the actual sewing and technical part of designing. There's no one in the music business who does everything themselves because you can't be good at every task. But she is in charge and is the leader sort of like a movie director. A movie has a costume designer but the director decides what they want the costume designer to design.
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Old 10-07-2013, 00:36
Gigi4
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Actually, during her early career, under the management of Freddy DeMann, Madonna called the shots. She was the creative influence in her life and she worked closely with her brother Christopher to achieve her goals.

Under the management of Guy O'Seary she has become a shadow of her former self. He uses her as his marionette and sadly she lets him. Motherhood I think has made her less ambitious so perhaps she is happy to be less controversial and just to go with the flow.
This is not true at all. Madonna is still in charge. You may not like her recent choices but she is still in control. Her manager's name is Guy Oseary, not how you misspelled it. I think you are giving her brother a much bigger role than he actually had. He designed some sets on her tours. That's all. Anyone that says Madonna is less controversial and just goes with the flow obviously didn't see her last tour. It was her most controversial ever.
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Old 10-07-2013, 00:54
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This is not true at all. Madonna is still in charge. You may not like her recent choices but she is still in control. Her manager's name is Guy Oseary, not how you misspelled it. I think you are giving her brother a much bigger role than he actually had. He designed some sets on her tours. That's all. Anyone that says Madonna is less controversial and just goes with the flow obviously didn't see her last tour. It was her most controversial ever.
Gigi calm down dear! I did see her last tour. It was superb. Apart from Live nations choice of setting. Yes, Christopher did do the set designs for her earlier tours and she was once quite close to him and valued his input. But I think you are wrong that Madonna is still in charge today,. She knows what she wants but is often misguided by her her money driven manager. He uses her as a commodity to get rich and whilst you don't like that fact I'm afraid it's true. You only have to compare the music from 2005 to the music she does now to realise that she is being "guided into a populist genre" rather than be allowed to focus on the music SHE wants to create. Indeed she felt the release date for MDNA was rushed and she tampered with the edits of the tracks and altered the tracklisting to improve it right up to the last minute. Let's not fall out though. I like you loads!
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:03
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Well of course, she doesn't design the clothes herself because she's a singer and songwriter not a fashion designer. But she decides herself which of their clothes to wear and for her tours she directs them on what type of costumes she wants and they do the actual sewing and technical part of designing. There's no one in the music business who does everything themselves because you can't be good at every task. But she is in charge and is the leader sort of like a movie director. A movie has a costume designer but the director decides what they want the costume designer to design.
Well, then, you are agreeing she doesn't do it all herself then and that is what that post I quoted was talking about. She's not some wonder woman media mogul, she employs people to do jobs for her, that includes stylists and designers. Also if you honestly think Madonna is any position to tell Jean Paul Gaultier what to do rather than what she likes, I've got some chocolate fireguards to sell you. However picking what she like doesn't make her a designer or stylist. It makes her a customer with preferences. If I buy I Ralph Lauren shirt I like, that doesn't mean I am styled by Ralph Lauren, it means I am wearing his style of fashion.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:09
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I think it's unfair to expect anyone to be completely original. We all take inspiration from others, often without even realising it. Sometimes when I'm walking down the street and I see someone wearing something I like, I'll try and imitate it but put my own unique spin on it at the same time. My style is definitely inspired by others but that doesn't mean it's not my own. I don't wear the exact same thing, I piece together my inspirations.

That's what I feel nearly every celebrity in the world does. No artist, pop star, actress or model is truely 100% original and unique. That's not a bad thing at all. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. As long as Madonna or anyone else is not directly ripping off someone and claiming it is entirely their own work, I don't see the problem. For all we know, the celebrities Madonna has been accused of "ripping off" in the past were themselves inspired by random individuals they passed in the street. Unless we all seal ourselves off from the world entirely, there is no way we cannot be inspired by others.

This is all my opinion though, and I could be completely wrong.
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Old 10-07-2013, 22:40
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Madonna has spent her whole career being derivative. Or should I say her stylists and producers, because it's them that come up with her looks and sound, not her. The only things that sounded fairly original at the time were the True Blue and Ray Of Light albums, and that was thanks to Bray, Leonard, and William Orbit. She has released some killer pop songs in the past though, I'll give her that. She does deserve her fame.
Agreed up until you saying she deserves fame, the self-righteousness from some of her fans (especially on DS) is shocking, If someone who'd never heard of her came on here for research, you'd think she invented performance full stop.

Like I said in another thread, before getting shouted down by one of her over-enthusiastic fans...she's nothing but an expert business woman who's managed to hire the right people and cleverly exploit the music industry for her own gain. All these arguments that crop up like "she's reinvented herself throughout her career", PML because she's had to! If she had a diva-type voice I seriously doubt she'd have used so many shock-tactics to get by. Most artists who possess even a quarter of vocal talent don't need controversy to sell, because they believe in their talent to carry them through.
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Old 10-07-2013, 23:11
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Well, then, you are agreeing she doesn't do it all herself then and that is what that post I quoted was talking about. She's not some wonder woman media mogul, she employs people to do jobs for her, that includes stylists and designers. Also if you honestly think Madonna is any position to tell Jean Paul Gaultier what to do rather than what she likes, I've got some chocolate fireguards to sell you. However picking what she like doesn't make her a designer or stylist. It makes her a customer with preferences. If I buy I Ralph Lauren shirt I like, that doesn't mean I am styled by Ralph Lauren, it means I am wearing his style of fashion.
No one in the music business on Madonna's level does everything themselves. It would be impossible. Madonna has hired Jean Paul Gaultier to design costumes specifically for her tours. That's what I was talking about, not clothes she may wear at other events. She has hired him to make clothes for her tours that fit with the look she wants. You aren't able to buy those in a store. He sits down with her and she discusses the look she wants for her tour and he designs something specifically for her based on her wants and needs.
And a stylist does pick what clothes they like or suits their client from various designers . That's what a stylist does. Most stylists don't design clothes themselves. So if Madonna picks out what she wants to wear from various designers she is styling herself.
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Old 10-07-2013, 23:15
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Gigi calm down dear! I did see her last tour. It was superb. Apart from Live nations choice of setting. Yes, Christopher did do the set designs for her earlier tours and she was once quite close to him and valued his input. But I think you are wrong that Madonna is still in charge today,. She knows what she wants but is often misguided by her her money driven manager. He uses her as a commodity to get rich and whilst you don't like that fact I'm afraid it's true. You only have to compare the music from 2005 to the music she does now to realise that she is being "guided into a populist genre" rather than be allowed to focus on the music SHE wants to create. Indeed she felt the release date for MDNA was rushed and she tampered with the edits of the tracks and altered the tracklisting to improve it right up to the last minute. Let's not fall out though. I like you loads!
I like you too, but I don't agree with you. Madonna changes a lot in the style of music she likes. Just because you may not like something doesn't mean she's not in charge. Madonna has always liked pop music. Yes, she's has some more alternative things like Ray of Light, but she has always had a pop mainstream side to what she does. I think you're naive if you think Madonna doesn't like to make money. You act like Guy is making all the money and Madonna gets nothing. He gets a percentage, but she is making a lot of money too. She's never made a secret of the fact that she wants to have hits and make money from her tours.
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Old 10-07-2013, 23:18
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No one in the music business on Madonna's level does everything themselves. It would be impossible. Madonna has hired Jean Paul Gaultier to design costumes specifically for her tours. That's what I was talking about, not clothes she may wear at other events. She has hired him to make clothes for her tours that fit with the look she wants. You aren't able to buy those in a store. He sits down with her and she discusses the look she wants for her tour and he designs something specifically for her based on her wants and needs.
And a stylist does pick what clothes they like or suits their client from various designers . That's what a stylist does. Most stylists don't design clothes themselves. So if Madonna picks out what she wants to wear from various designers she is styling herself.
Arianna Philips styles Madonna. She doesn't do it herself. Seriously, this is not even worth arguing further, she doesn't do it all herself as previously claimed.
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Old 10-07-2013, 23:23
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Agreed up until you saying she deserves fame, the self-righteousness from some of her fans (especially on DS) is shocking, If someone who'd never heard of her came on here for research, you'd think she invented performance full stop.

Like I said in another thread, before getting shouted down by one of her over-enthusiastic fans...she's nothing but an expert business woman who's managed to hire the right people and cleverly exploit the music industry for her own gain. All these arguments that crop up like "she's reinvented herself throughout her career", PML because she's had to! If she had a diva-type voice I seriously doubt she'd have used so many shock-tactics to get by. Most artists who possess even a quarter of vocal talent don't need controversy to sell, because they believe in their talent to carry them through.
What you don't understand is us Madonna fans actually love her voice. I personally hate that type of screaming diva style of singing like Mariah, Celine and Whitney. If Madonna sang in that way, I wouldn't be a fan. You act like there's only one good way of singing. Yes, Madonna is a good businesswoman but she also has recorded and sung great songs that her fans enjoy, even though you may not.
And I wonder why if a woman like Madonna uses fashion and controversy, everyone says it is because she doesn't have musical talent. But if someone like David Bowie does the same things, people don't deny his talent. Performing is not just about the audio, it's also about visuals and theatre. Both Madonna and David do that, but somehow if Madonna does it she's not given credit for creating great performances, but David is praised endlessly for doing the same thing. I like David, but I don't think it's fair how they are portrayed so differently.
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Old 10-07-2013, 23:27
Gigi4
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Arianna Philips styles Madonna. She doesn't do it herself. Seriously, this is not even worth arguing further, she doesn't do it all herself as previously claimed.
But don't you think Madonna gives Arianna guidance as to what she wants? No one says Madonna does everything herself, but she is in control of her image. Arianna doesn't tell her what to wear. She works with what Madonna says she wants. Madonna is very busy rehearsing for tours, recording, running many businesses. She doesn't have time to go to every store to look at ever designer. Arianna does that and works with what Madonna wants. She doesn't dictate to Madonna what to wear. Why is this rule an artist have to do everything themselves? I don't think anyone said that, but they said that Madonna has a vision for what she wants to look like and is in charge of that, although she has other people to carry out that vision. Why are people so desperate to undermine Madonna's talent and unique artistic vision. I don't get it.
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Old 11-07-2013, 00:09
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What you don't understand is us Madonna fans actually love her voice. I personally hate that type of screaming diva style of singing like Mariah, Celine and Whitney. If Madonna sang in that way, I wouldn't be a fan. You act like there's only one good way of singing. Yes, Madonna is a good businesswoman but she also has recorded and sung great songs that her fans enjoy, even though you may not.
And I wonder why if a woman like Madonna uses fashion and controversy, everyone says it is because she doesn't have musical talent. But if someone like David Bowie does the same things, people don't deny his talent. Performing is not just about the audio, it's also about visuals and theatre. Both Madonna and David do that, but somehow if Madonna does it she's not given credit for creating great performances, but David is praised endlessly for doing the same thing. I like David, but I don't think it's fair how they are portrayed so differently.
If you read my post properly you'd see I mentioned having a quarter of vocal talent, that's hardly making any analogies to Whitney or Mariah even if the D word was dropped. She's an expert at manipulation and taking credit, some of her fans practically suggest everything is all her own merit. There were women before her to combine theatrics and performance like Grace Jones, Debbie Harry.

Yet again it's implied that Madonna's invented performance, just because of the grand scale of shock-tactics and meticulous publicity stunts used (e.g. pretending to be offended at Sinead O' Connor's performance at Saturday Night Live). It's like proclaiming the Spice Girls invented girl-power (Bananarama anyone?).

For someone like Madonna who likes to constantly exude supposed artistic integrity, she's not a patch on people like Prince who it with effortless class.

Gigi, you may as well accept I'm never going to agree with you. You're a little too biased to even consider some other people's points of view are valid.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:10
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But don't you think Madonna gives Arianna guidance as to what she wants? No one says Madonna does everything herself, but she is in control of her image. Arianna doesn't tell her what to wear. She works with what Madonna says she wants. Madonna is very busy rehearsing for tours, recording, running many businesses. She doesn't have time to go to every store to look at ever designer. Arianna does that and works with what Madonna wants. She doesn't dictate to Madonna what to wear. Why is this rule an artist have to do everything themselves? I don't think anyone said that, but they said that Madonna has a vision for what she wants to look like and is in charge of that, although she has other people to carry out that vision. Why are people so desperate to undermine Madonna's talent and unique artistic vision. I don't get it.
... Jesus, you guys are desperate to try credit someone for the work of their employees.

Look, the reality is she is a performer. She sings and dances. She doesn't design all her own sets, all her own clothes, fix her hair and make up on her own and singlehandedly control every facet of her career from what she wears to how her records sound. She literally would not have any time to perform if she was doing all of that. Go back and watch in Bed With Madonna, she has people telling her what to do, what to wear and where to go ALL THE TIME.

She PAYS PEOPLE TO DO JOBS... FOR HER.

She runs and empire but that doesn't make her the single person in charge of everything. She has a team of people she delegates duties to. Honestly, you're trying to make a 50 year old pop singer into some kind of omniscient, omnipotent demagogue rather than accepting she pays people that are good at what they do to do their very best for her. It's not only incredibly fantastical to assume any one person controls everything about their career when it is so diverse, it is a disservice to the work of those that are putting in the time to choreograph both her and her dancers, design their costumes, book the venues, arrange the VIPs, sort the rider out and ensure the show runs smoothly from the lighting to the set and costume changes.

Madonna is not a superhero who can work at the speed of light. She is a normal woman who works hard but also has others working hard for her. This is not about taking credit away from her work, it's about acknowleding and crediting others for the work they do for her rather than pretending she's an octopus with all the skills and time in the world.

And no, I doubt she tells Arianna what to do because IT'S ARIANNA'S JOB TO KNOW ALL THESE THINGS FOR MADONNA. The next trends are what she is paid to keep aware of and process in order to produce suitable and on trend fashions for Madonna's shows. That's her bloody job, if it's not, what is she on the payroll for? You honestly think a working mother of 4 who is the patron of charities and schools, who claims to only sleep 4-6 hours a night, is going to go through every goddamn fashion magazine in the last three months published internationally to tap up the next big designers and trends? No. She pays people to do that so she doesn't have to. Running an empire doesn't mean doing everything alone before telling someone what to do, it involves trusting your employees to do their best work. It's why Donald Trump doesn't answer his own phoneline and has a secretary.

Seriously, let's be real here. Undermining her artistic vision? Most of her songs are written or co-written for her, her original act is a take of from Veronica Lake and Marilyn Monroe, she has employed producers to make the majority of her music because she didn't even learn acoustic guitar until she was 38, she is a first and foremost a product and performer, not some fountain of unique and creative originality. Undermine her? I'm sorry, you seem to be of the mindset she is honestly a one woman operation. She is not and has not ever been that and to claim otherwise is to be wholly ignorant of the surfeit of evidence from her multiple tour DVDs and the aforementioned IBWM.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:13
Gigi4
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If you read my post properly you'd see I mentioned having a quarter of vocal talent, that's hardly making any analogies to Whitney or Mariah even if the D word was dropped. She's an expert at manipulation and taking credit, some of her fans practically suggest everything is all her own merit. There were women before her to combine theatrics and performance like Grace Jones, Debbie Harry.

Yet again it's implied that Madonna's invented performance, just because of the grand scale of shock-tactics and meticulous publicity stunts used (e.g. pretending to be offended at Sinead O' Connor's performance at Saturday Night Live). It's like proclaiming the Spice Girls invented girl-power (Bananarama anyone?).

For someone like Madonna who likes to constantly exude supposed artistic integrity, she's not a patch on people like Prince who it with effortless class.

Gigi, you may as well accept I'm never going to agree with you. You're a little too biased to even consider some other people's points of view are valid.
You seem biased against her. I'm sure if I attacked one of your favourite artists like Prince, you would come to his defense. What makes Prince more classy than Madonna? He uses sexual imagery just as much as she does. I like Prince's music but his arrogance turns me off. He recently gave an interview saying that people come to his shows 50 times because other artists are so bad that coming to see him is the only way to hear quality music. Prince acts like he invented performing. One of the things I like about Madonna is she lets the work speak for itself. You either get her or you don't.
I don't see Madonna manipulating or taking credit. She colloborates with other artists and always acknowledges them. But she has taken performance to another level even if she didn't invent it. As far as vocal talent, it is a lot of times a matter of personal preference. I much prefer Madonna's voice to Debbie Harry or Grace Jones. Does Grace even sing? A lot of her songs sound spoken to me.
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