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Quotas for a minimum amount of English players in a team- Unbelievably bad idea


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Old 03-09-2013, 23:08
Jack1
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I have just been watching the Footballers Football Show and seen possible the worst idea that has been banned around for a while which is to have a quota of English players playing for clubs.

Apart from the obvious breach of EU law, surely if English players were good enough they would break into the squad. If people use that argument then you would have to argue that managers are inherently biased against English players.

If we had the quota our top teams would get worse, when you have the top teams in the world then its likely that majority of players won't come from a small island. Why would people want to see a worse league?
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Old 03-09-2013, 23:20
Jim De Ville
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It's a flawed idea, put forward by people with little imagination.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:21
ShaunIOW
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I don't see how it would be against EU law seeing as there is already a quota of players per team (11 + 7 subs), plus there would be nothing to stop clubs signing as many foreigners as they like. Other countries have quotas as well without breaking European Law - German lower division sides must have a minimum number of Germans in the match day squad, and Italian Clubs can only sign one non-EU player per season as just 2 examples.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:43
Cantona07
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I dont see how it would be against EU law at all - but it is a short-sighted crap idea.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:02
celesti
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You silly gooses. Remember all the World Cups we won when there was the cap previously?
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:04
Jack1
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You silly gooses. Remember all the World Cups we won when there was the cap previously?
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:10
jeffiner1892
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I'm getting a case of serious déjà vu here. Didn't we already bring in this rule 3 years ago? Albeit home grown as opposed to "English".
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:11
Jack1
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I don't see how it would be against EU law seeing as there is already a quota of players per team (11 + 7 subs), plus there would be nothing to stop clubs signing as many foreign players as they like. Other countries have quotas as well without breaking European Law - German lower division sides must have a minimum number of Germans in the match day squad, and Italian Clubs can only sign one non-EU player per season as just 2 examples.
Our current system works by players being homegrown aka they must have been with a club for x amount of years when they were younger. So technically a foreign player could be classed as homegrown.

I don't know anything about the German system, but you can discriminate against non EU players, the free movement of players only applies to EU citizens. Not sure how that would benefit the game.

Its possible that a legal remedy could be found, but it would still be bad for the game.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:13
Jack1
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I'm getting a case of serious déjà vu here. Didn't we already bring in this rule 3 years ago? Albeit home grown as opposed to "English".
We did but many in the media want it "toughened up"
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:17
codeblue
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I dont see how it would be against EU law at all - but it is a short-sighted crap idea.
The idea was first suggested by Fifa (Blatter) around 5 years ago - he wanted a 6+5 system where a team in europe must field at least 6 "nationals", from the country the league is based in, in the starting 11.

Note the term "national", which is not the same as "home grown" which is used in current wording when choosing team squads (and not the starting 11).

The plan could not have applied to Europe, because footballers are currently classed as "workers" and as such are still subject to rules regarding the free movement of labour and non-discrimination based on nationality. There is no way around this.

Instead we observe the alternative UEFA system which encourages "home grown talent", a system which is not based on nationality and therefore acceptable within the current law.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:55
biggeral
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I don't think the standard of our top flight is higher than it was in the 70's and 80's when English clubs won the European Cup 6 years in a row with teams of mostly british players. Either our talent pool has dried up, or there are plenty of excellent players playing in the reserves or the championship who will see little or no first team action.

If you look at Scotland, Celtic have very few Scottish players and the national side are going through a tough time. How many Scottish players can most people south of the border name? Back in the 70's and 80's there were several Scottish players who were household names. In Spain, the nucleus of most of the top sides is made up of Spanish players and look at their national team.

Some time back for a few seasons, all teams had to field 8 players from their own country which affected us more than most as Scottish and Welsh players were considered as foreign players even though there are Welsh teams playing in our league.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:02
celesti
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One thing I've always felt would help the national side is if players travelled more and experienced different football cultures and philosophies. There can't be too many 'big' national sides with a more insular selection than England I'd have thought - if you look at the squad the closest we have is Forster playing in Scotland, which is hardly a culture shock.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:07
batdude_uk1
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One thing here, why should Cardiff and Swansea be forced to play more English people? (And to be fair Cardiff already play with a lot of English players), surely, if anything, if we are going down this road, it would be better for them to play with Welsh players, seeing as how they are Welsh clubs??
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:10
biggeral
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One thing I've always felt would help the national side is if players travelled more and experienced different football cultures and philosophies. There can't be too many 'big' national sides with a more insular selection than England I'd have thought - if you look at the squad the closest we have is Forster playing in Scotland, which is hardly a culture shock.
I agree that it would be good if some of our better players got experience in other european clubs, but the selectors can only pick the best team available and very few decent English players are playing outside the Premiership.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:41
jeffiner1892
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I remember reading that for one of Liverpool's European Cup wins (I think!) that their starting XI didn't have a single English player. (Lawrenson technically is but registered for Ireland).

Means it's not really a recent problem.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:47
Cantona07
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One thing here, why should Cardiff and Swansea be forced to play more English people? (And to be fair Cardiff already play with a lot of English players), surely, if anything, if we are going down this road, it would be better for them to play with Welsh players, seeing as how they are Welsh clubs??
The are playing in the Premier League.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:48
Thomas007
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I think interest in the national team is dying anyway. Less and less people care about England. 21st century England is all about club success.

I mean if the Premier league was fully foreign, i.e. that there wasn't one English player in the entire league, would anyone care? The younger generation certainly wouldn't.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:52
Cantona07
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I think interest in the national team is dying anyway. Less and less people care about England. 21st century England is all about club success.

I mean if the Premier league was fully foreign, i.e. that there wasn't one English player in the entire league, would anyone care? The younger generation certainly wouldn't.
The Champions League format means we now get to see the best players competing against each other week in week out so there really isnt the same desire for International football. Personally much as I love the Euros and World Cups in the summertime its more because it means there is loads of football on that otherwise wouldnt be. I hate international breaks with a passion!!
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:01
batdude_uk1
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The are playing in the Premier League.
Yes, but we are talking here about putting more English people into teams to help improve the English national team are we not?

In this sort of scenario, shouldn't Welsh teams be trying to help out the Welsh national team? Wouldn't that seem more like say German teams playing with more German players, or Spanish teams playing with more Spanish players? (I could go on, but you get the idea)

If this sort of idea were to see the light of day, then Cardiff and Swansea (and the other Welsh teams should they ever climb high enough and reach the Premier League), should have exceptions to the rule, and be encouraged to develop more Welsh players, as they are representing Wales, just like the English teams are representing England.

I think a similar sort of thing happens in Canada with their teams which compete in the MLS, having special dispensation with regards to developing Canadian players, rather than American players.
So, a similar sort of thing could be used here.
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:05
O'Neill
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It's a bad idea. Clubs being forced to pick players that wouldn't get chosen under existing laws won't suddenly create more top class players, and will also hinder the clubs.
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:08
kingjeremy
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Cardiff and Swansea are playing in the ENGLISH football league.
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:12
sodavlac
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One thing I've always felt would help the national side is if players travelled more and experienced different football cultures and philosophies. There can't be too many 'big' national sides with a more insular selection than England I'd have thought - if you look at the squad the closest we have is Forster playing in Scotland, which is hardly a culture shock.
Only going to happen when the English game is less well off finacially, if ever for me. The players are on too high a wage to want to move abroad and well, the clubs demand too high a fee for many of the foreign teams to pay. They can find cheaper and often better talent elsewhere.

Italy are another team who haven't had too many players in their squads playing abroad although they probably have more non-national team players playing overseas. I think there was a thing where it was acknowledged that it was difficult to get called up for them if you were playing in a different country for a while.

Tournament/Italy squad players playing outside of Italy

World Cup 86 - 0
Euro 88 - 0
World Cup 90 - 0
Euro 92 - DNQ
World Cup 94 - 0
Euro 96 - 0
World Cup 98 - 2
Euro 2000 - 0
World Cup 2002 - 0
Euro 2004 - 0
World Cup 2006 - 0
Euro 2008 - 4
World Cup 2010 - 0
Euro 2012 - 3

A bit of a recent rise at the last two Euros as Italian football has become less cash-rich?
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:23
Sabre92
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I wouldn't directly propose an outright quota on English players, but would perhaps make it so that you couldn't have any foreigners under the age of 18 in the youth academies (Welsh, Scots and Irish would be allowed), thereby stopping clubs from buying in 14-15 year olds from Spain or Belgium or wherever and taking the place of local talent in the youth set-ups.

In addition I'd then make it so that you had to include 4 products of your youth system in your match day squad (this could be anyone, so guys like Steven Gerrard and John Terry would count as one of those four) to encourage clubs to make use of their academies and promote more home-grown talent, although this wouldn't come in until a few years after the first rule to give clubs time to get their youth systems in order.

I also think more should be done to encourage more English/British players to go abroad and experience playing in a different country. The issue of the lack of there not being many English players in the Premier League wouldn't be so large if there were a good 20-30 Englishmen playing in the top foreign leagues, as is the case with French/German/Spanish players who play overseas.
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Old 04-09-2013, 13:31
codeblue
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As has been pointed out, Quotas are illegal.

It is all just lip-service and a bit of a cop out.

Lets think about it logically, the premier league has the top football players from around the world. It is awash with money. Any attempt to water it down by artificial quotas would result in a loss of quality, and less money coming in.

The real problem is all the sub-par foreign players in leagues below the premiership.

With so many professional football clubs in the UK there are many opportunities for English players to get a foothold and rise to the top. Are the FA seriously suggesting that the championship is awash with english talent that cannot break into the premiership?

The only way the FA's statement would make sense, is that if the above was the case. As its clearly not, i think they are scapegoating, and trying to find a reason to justify their salaries.
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Old 04-09-2013, 14:07
ShaunIOW
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You silly gooses. Remember all the World Cups we won when there was the cap previously?
But we never instigated the foreigners rule properly in England - when it was 4 foreigners per match other countries teams had 7 Germans, 7 Italians etc but English clubs never had 7 English due to not counting Scots, Irish and Welsh as foreign.

I remember reading that for one of Liverpool's European Cup wins (I think!) that their starting XI didn't have a single English player. (Lawrenson technically is but registered for Ireland).

Means it's not really a recent problem.
IIRC it was the 1986 FA Cup Final team.

Its funny how with football and business law they can seem to pick and choose which laws to follow - look at insolvency rules that state football debts have to be paid before debts including tax - that isn't allowed in other businesses.
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