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Helen Flanagan - is there any end to her stupidity?


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Old 12-11-2013, 13:44
AOTB
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JW- you made some excellent points in your post from yesterday and I largely agree with what you wrote. Your last paragraph was interesting and perhaps you could be on to something- maybe part of it is just being down to 'men are from mars women are from venus' type thing!

I agree everyone has a right to their opinion (and indeed to be critical) and I also think many posters, like Prumeister says, will post purely based on their personality etc, and not on looks or anything else. That's more than fair enough. I still stand by my point from earlier than there are others who definitely don't appear to do this, and it's those IMO who give rise to others rushing in with the 'oh you must be jealous' type of line. They may well be completely wrong, but I can see 'why' they might say it, that's all.

Finally I think we l can by and large all agree that the rise, and 'celebration' of the 'thick celebrity' is nothing to be admired, in either sex!
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Old 13-11-2013, 00:50
DavetheScot
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That's something that really gets up my nose. Some seem to think education is for toffs and weirdos. It's not. It's for everyone. I'm not saying that everyone has to have a PhD but it's important to be educated at least up to A-Level and to be literate and able to work a computer. Being thick is not something to celebrate. Are we returning to the dark old days where women were called blue stockings because they were educated?
Being able to work a computer doesn't seem to require much education. Any halfwit can type out screeds of illiterate dreck on a computer keyboard, and most of them do.

Seriously though, I think everyone should be educated to the best of their ability. I don't think that's going to be A-level for everyone. And some who aren't educated have been badly let down by poor schools.
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Old 14-11-2013, 02:21
SULLA
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She has far more money than most of us on here. Can't be that stupid
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Old 14-11-2013, 04:26
Molly Bloom
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She has far more money than most of us on here.
Thankfully some people still value pride and intelligence over money.
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Old 14-11-2013, 07:14
The Prumeister
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She has far more money than most of us on here. Can't be that stupid


Jade Goody was wealthy and she was incredibly thick. Having money does not mean intelligence. See also Jordan, the TOWIE lot et al.
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Old 14-11-2013, 11:20
gilliedew
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She has far more money than most of us on here. Can't be that stupid
They just got lucky, met the right people and we can imagine the rest.
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Old 14-11-2013, 16:49
SULLA
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Thankfully some people still value pride and intelligence over money.
Jade Goody was wealthy and she was incredibly thick. Having money does not mean intelligence. See also Jordan, the TOWIE lot et al.
Yes it's far better to be poor and intelligent.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:01
Brighton Bhelle
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Yes it's far better to be poor and intelligent.
At least someone who's poor and intelligent can use that intelligence to better themselves and perhaps make money.

If you've pots of money and thick as mince, you could use it to buy some education, but if you're thick, you don't have the intelligence to learn.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:02
Squatch
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With respect, I would offer that the success of her 'Baby K' range isn't exclusively down to her stripping down to her bikini in the jungle in 2008.
With respect, that's EXACTLY why she has a range of baby clothes as opposed to any other person - because she's famous. And why is she still famous after being in a flop manufactured band 12 years ago? Because she went on I'm A Celeb and spent copious amounts of time in a bikini. Not her fault that the media decides to worship big tits, and you can't fault her for making the most of her opportunities (the offers to write books, do clothing lines etc). She's not talented or intelligent though. She's just another glorified lottery winner, like most celebs, making the most of the chances offered to her. Yes she's a classically trained musician, but how many people even know that about her? It's not her career. Since she hasn't chosen that path, we don't even know how talented a musician she actually is.

Nothing wrong with being a glamour model at all. She'll likely earn very good money out of it if she adopts it as a full time career. .
Your opinion is not fact. There are very valid reasons why people think being a glamour model is wrong in many different ways (although it's ultimately the fault of the media and society for allowing this "career" to exist rather than the fault of the girls themselves. If they didn't choose Helen they'd choose some other girl).

Earning very good money out of something is no justification for doing something, nor a reason to respect someone.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:03
Molly Bloom
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Yes it's far better to be poor and intelligent.
Some people might find it easy to sell their soul for a bit of dosh, but I just wouldn't be able to do it. I'm not sure how that makes me a lesser person in the eyes of people like you, but it's a funny old world.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:11
Squatch
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We've dismantled the accusations of "wimmin are jellus!!" accusations. Okay.

But what I want to know is, why are there always allegations of women being disproportionately responsible for excessively criticising other females? Is there any actual proof of this? In my experience, women criticise men and women equally, whereas men criticise women much more than they do their own gender (then have the gall to criticise women for being too critical!).
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:15
Irma Bunt
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Being able to work a computer doesn't seem to require much education. Any halfwit can type out screeds of illiterate dreck on a computer keyboard.
And, sadly, most of it seems to end up on DS...
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:25
AOTB
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We've dismantled the accusations of "wimmin are jellus!!" accusations. Okay.
With respect, I don't think it has been fully dismantled. Well not properly anyway.
If someone said they think that 'ALL women are jealous' then yes that's pretty much been dismantled.

But what I want to know is, why are there always allegations of women being disproportionately responsible for excessively criticising other females? Is there any actual proof of this? In my experience, women criticise men and women equally, whereas men criticise women much more than they do their own gender (then have the gall to criticise women for being too critical!).
I've addressed this at length in this thread, but no one's actually made any response to my comment re why some people MIGHT make this accusation. It's pretty obvious to me why others might throw around the 'jellus' tag around on here, even if they happen to be wrong.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:43
Brighton Bhelle
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With respect, I don't think it has been fully dismantled. Well not properly anyway.
If someone said they think that 'ALL women are jealous' then yes that's pretty much been dismantled.

I've addressed this at length in this thread, but no one's actually made any response to my comment re why some people MIGHT make this accusation. It's pretty obvious to me why others might throw around the 'jellus' tag around on here, even if they happen to be wrong.
BiB - nobody has to reply to you.

It's a showbiz forum, not one for deep psychological analysis of motives.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:57
JasonWatkins
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With respect, that's EXACTLY why she has a range of baby clothes as opposed to any other person - because she's famous. And why is she still famous after being in a flop manufactured band 12 years ago? Because she went on I'm A Celeb and spent copious amounts of time in a bikini. Not her fault that the media decides to worship big tits, and you can't fault her for making the most of her opportunities (the offers to write books, do clothing lines etc)
I don't dispute that Myleene was most likely given a whole host of opportunities when she came out of the jungle, the clothing range included. The fact it's still successful five years later, to me at least, says that her involvement with it is a bit more than just the face on the packaging.

If the range didn't sell, I have no doubts that it would have been dropped, regardless of who she is.

She's not talented or intelligent though. She's just another glorified lottery winner, like most celebs, making the most of the chances offered to her. Yes she's a classically trained musician, but how many people even know that about her? It's not her career. Since she hasn't chosen that path, we don't even know how talented a musician she actually is
Check out the "glorified lottery winner" playing the piano live ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtKPMo-kDds

Your opinion is not fact
Yes it is !!!!

Spoiler


There are very valid reasons why people think being a glamour model is wrong in many different ways (although it's ultimately the fault of the media and society for allowing this "career" to exist rather than the fault of the girls themselves. If they didn't choose Helen they'd choose some other girl).

Earning very good money out of something is no justification for doing something, nor a reason to respect someone.
I can see you have a particular opinion of the glamour industry, so I will say no more
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:03
Squatch
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With respect, I don't think it has been fully dismantled. Well not properly anyway.
If someone said they think that 'ALL women are jealous' then yes that's pretty much been dismantled.
I should have added "within this thread". I meant that those who were accused of accusing women of being jealous have sufficiently defended themselves, in my view.

I've addressed this at length in this thread, but no one's actually made any response to my comment re why some people MIGHT make this accusation. It's pretty obvious to me why others might throw around the 'jellus' tag around on here, even if they happen to be wrong.
No, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about society's (and by extension this thread) acceptance as fact of the unfounded notion that women are much more critical and judgemental of each other, than men are towards them (or women are towards men).

On this thread, it's been said that certain types of female celebs receive undue flack. It was ASSUMED that this flack would disproportionately come from other women. This is baseless. How do you know it's women?
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:16
The Prumeister
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Yes it's far better to be poor and intelligent.


100%. Most people I have met in my lifetime who might be poor in a material sense are worth a million of the likes of Goody. Intelligence isn't transient like wealth can be.
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:28
Blondie X
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Yes it's far better to be poor and intelligent.
Are they the only 2 options available then, rich and thick or intelligent and poor? Strangely, I don't know a living soul in real life who fits into those black and white boxes
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:34
AOTB
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BiB - nobody has to reply to you.
Yes I'm fully aware of that thanks, and at no point did I say snyone has to reply to me. The other poster asked
why are there always allegations of women being disproportionately responsible for excessively criticising other females?
and I was simply pointing out that I've addressed this. Whether people want to ignore it, reply to it or pick it apart, is entirely up to them.
It's a showbiz forum, not one for deep psychological analysis of motives.
Again, yes I know it's a showbiz forum. I'll not tell you how to use it and it'd be nice to have the same courtesy back. Seems pretty reasonable to me.Thanks!
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:40
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I should have added "within this thread". I meant that those who were accused of accusing women of being jealous have sufficiently defended themselves, in my view.
Fair enough, and I mean you no offence, but I've stated my reasons why in this thread. It's your prerogative of course as to whether you think my reasoning has worth or not. My question then to you 'is there no reason whatsoever that you can think of as to why some posters might make those claims'?(even if wrong).

No, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about society's (and by extension this thread) acceptance as fact of the unfounded notion that women are much more critical and judgemental of each other, than men are towards them (or women are towards men).

On this thread, it's been said that certain types of female celebs receive undue flack. It was ASSUMED that this flack would disproportionately come from other women. This is baseless. How do you know it's women?
How do you know I'm not a woman?
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:42
Squatch
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I don't dispute that Myleene was most likely given a whole host of opportunities when she came out of the jungle, the clothing range included. The fact it's still successful five years later, to me at least, says that her involvement with it is a bit more than just the face on the packaging.

If the range didn't sell, I have no doubts that it would have been dropped, regardless of who she is.
Loads of people have successful businesses. It doesn't take a genius, it usually takes luck, connections, and knowing an opportunity when you see one. Myleene was presented with an opportunity on a platter. The fact that she's famous will have drawn more people to the clothing range, simply because they would have been more likely to be aware of its existence, thus enhancing its chances of success. She's made some comments in interviews, that "as a woman, I have to sit there with all these men and discuss numbers and figures" or something along those lines. So she's certainly not running this business unsupported, and her words implied that she doesn't really know what she's doing and is winging it a bit.

Obviously, it's normal to hire staff to run a big business, but the fact that she was already rich and famous would mean that she could afford to hire the best advisers and staff very early on. Normal people can't do that. Again, this enhances the chance of the business' success.

Finally, fashion is a pointless, wasteful industry, and I judge anyone involved in it to be ignorant and vapid (that's my opinion, I don't care if anyone disagrees). I assume Myleene has no opinion on the poisonous cotton industry, the land wasted growing cotton when there are starving people in the world, and the working conditions of people who make clothes to sell in rich countries.

This is my own personal opinion on why I can never respect anyone working in the fashion industry.

Check out the "glorified lottery winner" playing the piano live ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtKPMo-kDds
It's completely irrelevant. She didn't become famous as a pianist.

I can't watch youtube videos at the moment, so I don't have an opinion on whether she's a good pianist or not. Many people are classically trained, but only the very best can make it as classical musicians. It's competitive. So Myleene may well be an exceptionally good pianist for a celebrity, but for all we know she might not hold a candle to professional pianists trained to the same (or higher) level.

However, as I said, it's irrelevant as her success in life is in no way based on her piano or harp skills

I can see you have a particular opinion of the glamour industry, so I will say no more
"A particular opinion"? So do you!
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:50
Squatch
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Fair enough, and I mean you no offence, but I've stated my reasons why in this thread. It's your perogerative of course as to whether you think my reasoning has worth or not. My question then to you 'is there no reason whatsoever that you can think of as to why some posters might make those claims?(even if wrong).
Misogyny, seeing women as petty and silly, only noticing when women criticise, but seeing it as justified when men do exactly the same thing.

How do you know I'm not a woman?
I don't remember making assumptions about your gender. I certainly didn't in the last two posts of mine that you replied to.

I do seem to remember you talking about men as though you're one of them.
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:55
Brighton Bhelle
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Yes I'm fully aware of that thanks, and at no point did I say snyone has to reply to me. The other poster asked and I was simply pointing out that I've addressed this. Whether people want to ignore it, reply to it or pick it apart, is entirely up to them.

Again, yes I know it's a showbiz forum. I'll not tell you how to use it and it'd be nice to have the same courtesy back. Seems pretty reasonable to me.Thanks!
Touchy!
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Old 14-11-2013, 19:09
AOTB
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Misogyny, seeing women as petty and silly, only noticing when women criticise, but seeing it as justified when men do exactly the same thing.
I certainly don't see women as petty and silly. Far from it. The irony is that I'm 100% all for equality, right across the board

I don't remember making assumptions about your gender. I certainly didn't in the last two posts of mine that you replied to.
I do seem to remember you talking about men as though you're one of them.
Yeah fair enough. you didn't make that assumption I agree. The better question would have been 'do you think I am a man or a woman'.

The reason I ask is because you said that
It was ASSUMED that this flack would disproportionately come from other women. This is baseless.
I disagree that you cannot tell the gender of many posters. Even without recalling the post I wrote exactly, you've still managed to guess correctly.

My point simply is that there are several ways you can tell the gender of many/most posters (not all), or at least make a more than educated guess, hence the 'baseless' comment is in itself, baseless.

There are other ways to tell, of course. Again, I'm, not having a go, just pointing this out.

ps let's test out my theory. I am going to go out on a limb and state I believe that you are female. Am I right?
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Old 14-11-2013, 19:14
AOTB
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Ha ha, not really, I was chuckling as i posted it, honest. As you say it IS only a forum after all. No biggie & I'm calm really, I promise. I just respect everyone's right to have an opinion, including me!
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