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If Jorgie would have made it further....


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Old 11-03-2014, 22:21
daniel_farrelly
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If Jorgie would have made it further, and if week 1+2 were based both on scores and votes, where do you think she would be on the leaderboard and the votes.
Here are mine;

Week one;
she would still be in the skate off, but will be saved by the judges against Gareth. Even though she had the least votes

Week two;
did not perform

Week three;
she would be joint 5th with Suzanne and Sam on the leaderboard(31.0). She will be safe, but will be placed 8th on the votes.(5.96%)

Week four;
she will be joint 5th with Suzanne again(33.0). She will be safe again, and placed 5th on the votes(6.48%)

Week five;
will be awarded immunity in a duel against Bonnie, therefore safe.

Week six;
She will be 3rd on the leaderboard(35.0). She will be safe and will be placed 5th on the votes(6.16%)

Week seven;
She will be 2nd on the leaderboard after team challenge(71.0). She will be safe, but placed 5th on the votes(5.17%).

Week eight;
She will be 4th on the leaderboard(69.5). She will be in the skate off, but will be saved against Kyran. She will be 4th on the votes (7.89%)

Week nine;
she will be bottom of the leaderboard(72.5). She will be in the skate off again, and will be eliminated in 4th place(7.70%)

This is just where I think she will be on the votes and the leaderboard, and also where she will come in the competition. . Still think it's a shame losing someone so good so early.
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Old 11-03-2014, 22:26
petertard
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The poor girl was shafted in her own series, partly due to her own taciturnity, and shafted even worse in this series by the total setup with Sylvain, which she did not have the nous to negotiate; but she was talented as a skater and performer, certainly up there with Suzanne, Beth and Hayley; but not popular, unfortunately.

Jorgie not too happy with having to attend the final: http://www.entertainmentwise.com/new...-Porter-Livid-
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:16
CaroUK
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She'd have been in the skate off umpteen times just like Sam was.

For whatever reason, the public just didn't take to either of them - Jorgie wasn't the most popular in her series, and she didn't even get off the ground with this one. She got the runner up spot in her series because the judges liked her - not that the public did - and she (like Laura Hamilton) was never going to get anywhere in this one. Her only hope was to get enough votes to be in the skate off rather than first out - and she didn't even manage that!

Had she put her big girls pants on over the Sylvain situation and just got on with the job she was being paid to do, and told them where to stick their VT (or not making snide comments on camera to her little mates at least) she might have lasted a couple of weeks more than she did - but she was never going to be able to compete with the big guns
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:57
Drifter
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Some strange logic from the OP there. Jorgie would be safe in Team Challenge despite the fact the girls lost this year?

Had she avoided going home if it wasn't just down to the public in week 1, she would be gone very quickly after that anyway. Zaraah couldn't manage it for long, and even Suzanne could only come 6th. Routines obviously affect this, but clearly Hayley and Beth got the majority of the girls votes regardless.

Sam and Kyran's voting problems would presumably have been unchanged, so she likely would have ended up in a skate off with them by week 3 or 4, and probably being ousted by the judges.
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:04
WhyHelloWorld
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If she had made it she would of been in the skate of several times, or just been in the skate of with either Suzanne, Kyran or Sam and gone home.

She was the least supported of all the skaters. It wouldn't of made any difference.
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Old 12-03-2014, 15:31
Stuart25
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I think you're being very optimistic to be honest.

The show is over, what's done is done. Jorgie was eliminated first and people just have to accept that. How many times did you (OP) vote for her in week one?
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Old 12-03-2014, 16:42
wazzyboy
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The question remains, would she have been the least supported but for SylvainVTGate (whomever you think is/are to blame).

My guess is, she would have got more votes for a short while, and lasted at least a bit longer.
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Old 12-03-2014, 16:46
Drifter
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I think she would have been bottom regardless what her VT showed.
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Old 12-03-2014, 16:50
wazzyboy
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I think she would have been bottom regardless what her VT showed.
I really am not sure about that.
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Old 12-03-2014, 19:37
daniel_farrelly
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I think you're being very optimistic to be honest.

The show is over, what's done is done. Jorgie was eliminated first and people just have to accept that. How many times did you (OP) vote for her in week one?
yes, I voted over 20 times. I just wanted her to last longer and be a bit more appreciated based on her ability. She was much better technically than Hayley, but sadly not as popular.
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Old 12-03-2014, 20:34
thenetworkbabe
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If Jorgie would have made it further, and if week 1+2 were based both on scores and votes, where do you think she would be on the leaderboard and the votes.
Here are mine;

Week one;
she would still be in the skate off, but will be saved by the judges against Gareth. Even though she had the least votes

Week two;
did not perform

Week three;
she would be joint 5th with Suzanne and Sam on the leaderboard(31.0). She will be safe, but will be placed 8th on the votes.(5.96%)

Week four;
she will be joint 5th with Suzanne again(33.0). She will be safe again, and placed 5th on the votes(6.48%)

Week five;
will be awarded immunity in a duel against Bonnie, therefore safe.

Week six;
She will be 3rd on the leaderboard(35.0). She will be safe and will be placed 5th on the votes(6.16%)

Week seven;
She will be 2nd on the leaderboard after team challenge(71.0). She will be safe, but placed 5th on the votes(5.17%).

Week eight;
She will be 4th on the leaderboard(69.5). She will be in the skate off, but will be saved against Kyran. She will be 4th on the votes (7.89%)

Week nine;
she will be bottom of the leaderboard(72.5). She will be in the skate off again, and will be eliminated in 4th place(7.70%)

This is just where I think she will be on the votes and the leaderboard, and also where she will come in the competition. . Still think it's a shame losing someone so good so early.
The problem is the team challenge week. The judges can make whoever they want winner there. Its about the only week they didn't throw marks at Hayley for a strong dance routine with little difficulty in the tricks or lifts. Its that way because Hayley can't do any more. Without the twist ,and the judges randomly choosing the males, it would have been Sam or Kyran going. With Jorgie in, it depends whether Suzanne still has a higher vote , where Jorgie is in relation to Kyran and Sam, who else is left, and whether the twist is abandoned, there's a different winner, or what happens in the team challenge repeats.

Week one depends on what they do instead - if one or two go. If they make the series a week longer, Jorgie shoud stay at least till Kyran does. If two go you have to do the maths in full to check whether she is safe from a triple skate off.

She's got an uphill road to climb though before she can get to where she should probably be - competing with Beth and Suzanne for a place in the last two. She's started without her past partner. Given what happened to Suzanne, and what happened to Jorgie in her own series , she's likely to be given the same mix of difficult moves and dud routines. The judges went OTT on her male competition - much as they did Beth's - so they may repeat Beth's treatment with her. And you still have the basic problem - that Hayley isn't being marked down for simplicity, and has a fanbase, Beth has a fan base ,and the judges on her back ,and Ray is doing well, with a fanbase, but not taht well in the vote. There's just not many votes for most contestants to play for - and the m ore it goes to weaker performers, the more the better ones are likely to knock each other out.

I agree with your main point. The series should have been about seeing where the top 5 or 6 females now were in relation to each other, and where they could get to. Jorgie was nearest to Suzanne as a combination of skating skill, dane, acting and wow factor, and we ought to have seen if age, and more training, worked for her this time out. Ironically , the series failed to allow us to see most people's potential - it only really managed to overmark Hayley and show that she hadn't added much. They left Bonnie and Zaraah with dull routines, Suzanne alternated between dull , difficult, and harder routines than Hayley's getting fewer marks,. Beth was still waiting for a great routine at the end, and Jorgie was torpedoed at the start of the race. That was compounded by most contestant's votes having little relationship to what they were doing on ice - and all but a couple of the top contestants underperforming in the vote.
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Old 12-03-2014, 21:05
johartuk
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Jorgie was never going to do well. She didn't even win her own series, so she was always going to struggle against the 6 champions. Add to that the fact that, in week 1, she was up against at least five people (Ray, Hayley, Bonnie, Gareth and Joe) who are far better known than her, and two of those (Ray and Hayley) ended up as the winner and runner up of the series. Jorgie also didn't help herself when she mouthed off about Sylvain.
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Old 12-03-2014, 23:48
thenetworkbabe
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Jorgie was never going to do well. She didn't even win her own series, so she was always going to struggle against the 6 champions. Add to that the fact that, in week 1, she was up against at least five people (Ray, Hayley, Bonnie, Gareth and Joe) who are far better known than her, and two of those (Ray and Hayley) ended up as the winner and runner up of the series. Jorgie also didn't help herself when she mouthed off about Sylvain.
Depends what they are trying to do though. If they want a real all stars competition, decided on the ice dancing, they needed to structure it so that it rewarded ability, identified and showed people's full potential, and got the best contenders to the final stages. You have skate offs to help preserve the best, and you can tailor any twists, if you must have any at all, so they help preserve the best. You just don't have twists that can take possible top 4 contenders out in week one. You also build a stock of good routines for everyone - so no one ends up doing dull, or unfairly hard routines, and you bring in some skills tests - so that the unskilled can't get through without being shown as such. You also need better judging, and to deal with the judges credibility problem - so more people will listen to them. .

Ultimately, the public can vote for the most able or exciting, or the most familar, or the most similar, or the most orange, but they could have done better to show case the better contenders. As it was, Jorgie got no chance to try and build support, few people got enough good routines, and a twist claimed a main contender. They could have done much better - but may not have cared, rode with the big fan votes, and just carried on to the inevitable Ray win,
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Old 13-03-2014, 13:51
Veri
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Jorgie was never going to do well. She didn't even win her own series, so she was always going to struggle against the 6 champions. Add to that the fact that, in week 1, she was up against at least five people (Ray, Hayley, Bonnie, Gareth and Joe) who are far better known than her, and two of those (Ray and Hayley) ended up as the winner and runner up of the series. Jorgie also didn't help herself when she mouthed off about Sylvain.


She could do well even if she didn't win. She came 2nd in her series, and winning a series doesn't mean you're better than someone from another series.

And since the subject is what could have happened, she could have been in the week 2 group rather than the week 1.
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:57
johartuk
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She could do well even if she didn't win. She came 2nd in her series, and winning a series doesn't mean you're better than someone from another series.

And since the subject is what could have happened, she could have been in the week 2 group rather than the week 1.
If she couldn't win her own series, how was she ever going to be able to compete against 6 people who had? No matter how good she was, she just didn't have the popularity (and didn't endear herself to anyone with her behavior in the VT).
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Old 13-03-2014, 16:03
Veri
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If she couldn't win her own series, how was she ever going to be able to compete against 6 people who had? No matter how good she was, she just didn't have the popularity (and didn't endear herself to anyone with her behavior in the VT).


That's rhetoric, not logic.

How does coming 2nd in her own series mean she couldn't compete against someone who won a different series?

It's not like standards are constant from series to series.
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Old 13-03-2014, 21:10
thenetworkbabe
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If she couldn't win her own series, how was she ever going to be able to compete against 6 people who had? No matter how good she was, she just didn't have the popularity (and didn't endear herself to anyone with her behavior in the VT).
You may be right that people may vote for something else other than what they are actually watching. But if they do that, there's not much point in having the all stars series anyway. There's a problem too - in that people will judge the best on various criteria, and some will like dancing, some basic skating and some the difficult moves and wow factor, while many will vote for the better routine someone else provided. Those are all basic problems with the show concept.

The show ought to have been able to do better though. If the judging had reflected difficulty - instead of mainly just the quality of the dance routine, the audience would have been in a better position to appreciate skill. And if the popular routines had been shared between everyone who could do them, and the difficulty had been required from everyone, the voters might have had a better idea of who could do what. They might still just vote for the last person they had seen on ITV 1 , but they would have had a chance to vote for who was doing best mastering the skills, and they would have had more similarly likeable routines from everyone.

If you had a level playing field, its perfectly possible that Jorgie could shine enough to acquire a vote. She had the advantages of being an actor, showing some dancing talent on her own series, could skate really well, and probably got nearest to Suzanne , Clare and Bonnie in her ability to do the lifts and tricks. She was also now much nearer the same age Suzanne and Hayley had been when they won - wheras most other contenders , bar Ray, were by definition older than most series winners had been .As it turned out she got zero chance to show what she could do - beyond getting the second highest mark in her group, and getting more than the eventual second and third placed contestants in her their first outing.
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Old 16-03-2014, 00:45
Tiger Rose
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The poor girl was shafted in her own series, partly due to her own taciturnity, and shafted even worse in this series by the total setup with Sylvain, which she did not have the nous to negotiate; but she was talented as a skater and performer, certainly up there with Suzanne, Beth and Hayley; but not popular, unfortunately.

Jorgie not too happy with having to attend the final: http://www.entertainmentwise.com/new...-Porter-Livid-
How was she shafted in her original series
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Old 16-03-2014, 15:21
StrictlyEastend
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This is what I think,

Week 1: Gareth went instead of Jorgie.
WEEK 2: Did not skate but David and Sam out

Week 3: Her scores would be 8.0,8.0,7.5,7.0 = 30.5
She would be safe.
Todd out

Week 4: 8.0,8.5,8.5,7.5 = 32.5

In skate off against Zaraah, Zaraah gone.

Week 5 Duel:

Against Hayley, lost but safe from Skate off.
Gary out

Week 6: 8.5,8.0,9.0,8.0 = 33.5

In skate off with Bonnie, Bonnie out.

Week 7: 9.0,8.5,9.0,9.0 = 35.5
Safe. Hayley Out

Week 8: 9.5,10.0,10.0,9.5 = 39.0 9.5,9.5,10.0,9.5 = 38.5
Safe Kyran Out

Week 9: 10.0,10.0,10.0,10.0 = 40.0 10.0,10.0,10.0,9.5 = 39.5

Skate off vs Beth. Jorgie out.
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Old 16-03-2014, 15:37
daniel_farrelly
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This is what I think,

Week 1: Gareth went instead of Jorgie.
WEEK 2: Did not skate but David and Sam out

Week 3: Her scores would be 8.0,8.0,7.5,7.0 = 30.5
She would be safe.
Todd out

Week 4: 8.0,8.5,8.5,7.5 = 32.5

In skate off against Zaraah, Zaraah gone.

Week 5 Duel:

Against Hayley, lost but safe from Skate off.
Gary out

Week 6: 8.5,8.0,9.0,8.0 = 33.5

In skate off with Bonnie, Bonnie out.

Week 7: 9.0,8.5,9.0,9.0 = 35.5
Safe. Hayley Out

Week 8: 9.5,10.0,10.0,9.5 = 39.0 9.5,9.5,10.0,9.5 = 38.5
Safe Kyran Out

Week 9: 10.0,10.0,10.0,10.0 = 40.0 10.0,10.0,10.0,9.5 = 39.5

Skate off vs Beth. Jorgie out.
I think the judges would have sent Beth home, Just a feeling.
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