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Best supporting actress nominee and Bette Davis co-star Joan Lorring dies aged 88


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Old 27-07-2014, 21:36
Walter Neff
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Sorry I should have explained more clearly-rather than films mirroring couples splits ,I meant mirroring the state of their relationship or their style of arguing and conflict EG Some people said the onscreen arguments in Whos afraid of Virginna Woolf mirrored pretty close people suspected the drunken rows offscreen between Burton and Taylor?

Are you a fan of Jane Powell?I was surprised she didnt become a bigger star.
I never did understand how Taylor won an Oscar for playing herself in Virginia Woolf. All she needed was some padding and a wig, and then be her usual loud and vulgar self, which didn't exactly stretch her talent. Amazing how many people confused that with great acting, but I guess you can fool some of the people most of the time, with the right publicity and backing from a big studio.

I liked Jane Powell very much, loved her in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, and one of my all time favourite musicals is Hit the Deck. Unfortunately that was her last musical at MGM, and Jane along with most of the other musical stars were dropped by that studio.
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Old 28-07-2014, 18:01
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I never did understand how Taylor won an Oscar for playing herself in Virginia Woolf. All she needed was some padding and a wig, and then be her usual loud and vulgar self, which didn't exactly stretch her talent. Amazing how many people confused that with great acting, but I guess you can fool some of the people most of the time, with the right publicity and backing from a big studio.

I liked Jane Powell very much, loved her in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, and one of my all time favourite musicals is Hit the Deck. Unfortunately that was her last musical at MGM, and Jane along with most of the other musical stars were dropped by that studio.
Thats a real shame about Jane.Did the same fate befall Howard Keel and one of my favourites Esther Williams?
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Old 28-07-2014, 20:32
Walter Neff
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Thats a real shame about Jane.Did the same fate befall Howard Keel and one of my favourites Esther Williams?
Yes, in fact they starred in one lousy film together in 1955 before they both soon left MGM, a musical about Hannibal called Jupiter's Darling.

Howard had one more musical, Kismet, and then appeared in several Westerns, also TV, where he had a chance to reprise one of his greatest ever musicals, Kiss Me Kate.

Esther did a couple of straight acting roles in Raw Wind in Eden, and then a Universal thriller, The Unguarded Moment. Unfortunately, neither film was successful, as one critic said, "Wet she's a Star, dry she ain't!"
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Old 30-07-2014, 17:18
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Yes, in fact they starred in one lousy film together in 1955 before they both soon left MGM, a musical about Hannibal called Jupiter's Darling.

Howard had one more musical, Kismet, and then appeared in several Westerns, also TV, where he had a chance to reprise one of his greatest ever musicals, Kiss Me Kate.

Esther did a couple of straight acting roles in Raw Wind in Eden, and then a Universal thriller, The Unguarded Moment. Unfortunately, neither film was successful, as one critic said, "Wet she's a Star, dry she ain't!"
Film critics can be very whitty but cruel lol!!

Did Barbara Stanwyck ever receive an unfair mauling from the critics in your opinion?
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Old 30-07-2014, 20:05
Walter Neff
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Film critics can be very whitty but cruel lol!!

Did Barbara Stanwyck ever receive an unfair mauling from the critics in your opinion?
Most critics admired Barbara, and the News of the World critic in the 1940's used to rave about her, always stating that she was his favourite actress. The magazine, Time Out have also always reviewed her films very favourably

The late writer and critic David Shipman who was a friend of mine said that watching Barbara inspired him to write his excellent book, "The Great Movie Stars - The Golden Years"

There were three New York Critics who panned almost every performance that Barbara ever gave, Winston Burdette, Archer Winsten, and Howard Barnes.

Burdette said that she was not a great emotional actress, Winsten disliked both her acting and her looks, and Barnes called her wooden.

You can have picked up any review, whether on a good film or bad, and find the same evaluation. Consequently, Barbara was one of the few major stars of the Golden Age who never won the New York Critics Award

It must have pained Howard Barnes to eat his words when he wrote this review of The Lady Eve:

"The casting of The Lady Eve is one of the most surprisingly pleasant things about it.
Barbara Stanwyck, who always struck me as a wooden portrayer of rather lugubrious roles, is enchanting. In a series of stunning get-ups, she is alluring as well as artful in performing the key role of the show."
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:37
Hildaonpluto
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Most critics admired Barbara, and the News of the World critic in the 1940's used to rave about her, always stating that she was his favourite actress. The magazine, Time Out have also always reviewed her films very favourably

The late writer and critic David Shipman who was a friend of mine said that watching Barbara inspired him to write his excellent book, "The Great Movie Stars - The Golden Years"

There were three New York Critics who panned almost every performance that Barbara ever gave, Winston Burdette, Archer Winsten, and Howard Barnes.

Burdette said that she was not a great emotional actress, Winsten disliked both her acting and her looks, and Barnes called her wooden.

You can have picked up any review, whether on a good film or bad, and find the same evaluation. Consequently, Barbara was one of the few major stars of the Golden Age who never won the New York Critics Award

It must have pained Howard Barnes to eat his words when he wrote this review of The Lady Eve:

"The casting of The Lady Eve is one of the most surprisingly pleasant things about it.
Barbara Stanwyck, who always struck me as a wooden portrayer of rather lugubrious roles, is enchanting. In a series of stunning get-ups, she is alluring as well as artful in performing the key role of the show."
Who in your opinion from hollywoods golden era was badly overated by the critics?Im glad Howard Barnes had to eat humble pie regarding Barbara
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:14
Walter Neff
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Who in your opinion from hollywoods golden era was badly overated by the critics?Im glad Howard Barnes had to eat humble pie regarding Barbara
That is easy, Ingrid Bergman. I have never understood the fuss about her, and I have not been able to watch her in any film for years. I don't dislike Bogart, but don't agree with him being voted the greatest male star of all time. I thought Cagney and James Mason were more versatile. Consequently, I cannot watch Casablanca, even though it has some of my favourite character actors including Claude Rains, Conrad Veidt, Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre.

I also think that Greta Garbo is over rated, and Rita Hayworth, while I would say that Ida Lupino and Susan Hayward are the most under rated stars. Susan was one of the biggest stars of the 1950's, but now seems forgotten, even though she did win the Best Actress Oscar for I Want To Live, after five Nominations.
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Old 04-08-2014, 20:07
Hildaonpluto
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That is easy, Ingrid Bergman. I have never understood the fuss about her, and I have not been able to watch her in any film for years. I don't dislike Bogart, but don't agree with him being voted the greatest male star of all time. I thought Cagney and James Mason were more versatile. Consequently, I cannot watch Casablanca, even though it has some of my favourite character actors including Claude Rains, Conrad Veidt, Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre.

I also think that Greta Garbo is over rated, and Rita Hayworth, while I would say that Ida Lupino and Susan Hayward are the most under rated stars. Susan was one of the biggest stars of the 1950's, but now seems forgotten, even though she did win the Best Actress Oscar for I Want To Live, after five Nominations.
Are there any particular films from the golden era that totally flopped yet you cant fathom why as you rated the film really highly?
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Old 04-08-2014, 23:34
Takae
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I don't know if it's okay to post this, but American actor James Shigeta passed away on 28 July. He was 85.

Probably best known for his roles in The Crimson Kimono (Sam Fuller's criminally underrated 1959 detective film), Flower Drum Song, Lost Horizon and Die Hard. He also did the voice of General Li in Mulan.

Edited:
The Guardian's obituary of Mr. Shigeta: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014.../james-shigeta
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:04
Hildaonpluto
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I don't know if it's okay to post this, but American actor James Shigeta passed away on 28 July. He was 85.

Probably best known for his roles in The Crimson Kimono (Sam Fuller's criminally underrated 1959 detective film), Flower Drum Song, Lost Horizon and Die Hard. He also did the voice of General Li in Mulan.

Edited:
The Guardian's obituary of Mr. Shigeta: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014.../james-shigeta
Yes of course thats ok.Thank You for keeping us updated 👍
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:59
Walter Neff
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I don't know if it's okay to post this, but American actor James Shigeta passed away on 28 July. He was 85.

Probably best known for his roles in The Crimson Kimono (Sam Fuller's criminally underrated 1959 detective film), Flower Drum Song, Lost Horizon and Die Hard. He also did the voice of General Li in Mulan.

Edited:
The Guardian's obituary of Mr. Shigeta: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014.../james-shigeta
Yes of course it is OK.

This thread started as a tribute to a little known supporting actress who I particularly admired. I never expected that it would still be going strong, and with over 7000 views, so any contributions and views are always very welcome.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:08
Walter Neff
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Are there any particular films from the golden era that totally flopped yet you cant fathom why as you rated the film really highly?
Quite honestly I can't, practically every film had an audience in those days, because "going to the pictures" was the favourite pastime of just about everyone.

I do know that in 1944, 20th Century Fox spent a fortune on "Wilson" the story of the American president, Woodrow Wilson. Having seen it I can quite understand why, it was long and boring, and starring Alexander Knox, an actor who wasn't going to put bums on seats.
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Old 05-08-2014, 20:46
Walter Neff
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Are there any particular films from the golden era that totally flopped yet you cant fathom why as you rated the film really highly?
I was re-reading a marvellous book today entitled "Alternative Oscar's" by Danny Peary. He gives his views on who should have won, covering every year from the beginning in 1927, up until the book was published in 1991.

I certainly agree with several of his choices, he would have awarded Barbara two, for Ball of Fire (1941) and Double Indemnity (1944)

It was while reading this book that it struck me, the film that flopped, and is now looked upon as a Classic is Judy Garland's unforgettable A Star is Born.

When it was first shown it received raves from the critics, and Judy was a sure bet to win the Best Actress Oscar for 1954. At that time 181 minutes was considered far too long, so 27 minutes was hacked from it, which resulted in it doing disappointing business when it went on general release.
Warner's lost all interest in promoting it at the Oscars, and so consequently Judy unjustly lost to Grace Kelly, and James Mason to Brando.

Fortunately the lost film has since been restored and is now recognised for the masterpiece that it is.
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Old 05-08-2014, 21:49
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That is easy, Ingrid Bergman. I have never understood the fuss about her, and I have not been able to watch her in any film for years. I don't dislike Bogart, but don't agree with him being voted the greatest male star of all time. I thought Cagney and James Mason were more versatile. Consequently, I cannot watch Casablanca, even though it has some of my favourite character actors including Claude Rains, Conrad Veidt, Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre.

I also think that Greta Garbo is over rated, and Rita Hayworth, while I would say that Ida Lupino and Susan Hayward are the most under rated stars. Susan was one of the biggest stars of the 1950's, but now seems forgotten, even though she did win the Best Actress Oscar for I Want To Live, after five Nominations.
I think bogart was 'too old for this shit' in Sabrina.....
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Old 06-08-2014, 16:59
Walter Neff
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I think bogart was 'too old for this shit' in Sabrina.....
Yes, of course he was, Billy Wilder wanted Cary Grant who would have been perfect opposite Audrey, as he was several years later in Charade.

Bogart was only 54, but looked much older, and it is hard to imagine that she would leave Bill Holden to run off with him, especially as she and Bill were involved in real life.
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:47
Hildaonpluto
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I was re-reading a marvellous book today entitled "Alternative Oscar's" by Danny Peary. He gives his views on who should have won, covering every year from the beginning in 1927, up until the book was published in 1991.

I certainly agree with several of his choices, he would have awarded Barbara two, for Ball of Fire (1941) and Double Indemnity (1944)

It was while reading this book that it struck me, the film that flopped, and is now looked upon as a Classic is Judy Garland's unforgettable A Star is Born.

When it was first shown it received raves from the critics, and Judy was a sure bet to win the Best Actress Oscar for 1954. At that time 181 minutes was considered far too long, so 27 minutes was hacked from it, which resulted in it doing disappointing business when it went on general release.
Warner's lost all interest in promoting it at the Oscars, and so consequently Judy unjustly lost to Grace Kelly, and James Mason to Brando.

Fortunately the lost film has since been restored and is now recognised for the masterpiece that it is.

Barbaras lack of Oscar wins still baffles me.Was it something personal against her by some folk at the academy do you think as Ive heard they can sometimes be political up to a point?Would the fact Barbara was a republician in a very liberal community have been held against her do you think?Or was she just unlucky for a combination of reasons-because to me its insane she wasnt awarded in this way.

A star is born is an undeniable classic-shame on Warners for losing the vigour to promote it.

Random questions and a bit camp!

What was your favourite Doris Day film?

Please rank the 3 Janes in order of stature/importance in your opinion ,Jane Wyman,Jane Russell,Jayne Mansfield
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:10
Walter Neff
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Barbaras lack of Oscar wins still baffles me.Was it something personal against her by some folk at the academy do you think as Ive heard they can sometimes be political up to a point?Would the fact Barbara was a republician in a very liberal community have been held against her do you think?Or was she just unlucky for a combination of reasons-because to me its insane she wasnt awarded in this way.

A star is born is an undeniable classic-shame on Warners for losing the vigour to promote it.

Random questions and a bit camp!

What was your favourite Doris Day film?

Please rank the 3 Janes in order of stature/importance in your opinion ,Jane Wyman,Jane Russell,Jayne Mansfield
Barbara, like Cary Grant preferred to freelance, rather than be tied to one studio. In 1941, her most successful year, she went to Paramount for The Lady Eve, Goldwyn for Ball of Fire, Warner's for Meet John Doe, and Columbia for You Belong to Me.

This made her very rich, with multi studio short term contracts, but when it came to Oscar time the big studios were not interested in promoting a star who was not under contract to them. Why would James Stewart win an Oscar for The Philadelphia Story, and Cary Grant not even be Nominated? because Stewart was under contract to the mighty MGM.

There were so many wonderful actresses who missed out, Thelma Ritter, 6 Best Supporting Actress Nominations, no wins, Deborah Kerr 6 Best Actress Nomination's, no wins. Irene Dunne 5 Nominations, no wins. Roz Russell 4 Nominations, no wins.

Jean Simmons wasn't even Nominated for Elmer Gantry the year that Liz Taylor won for NOT dying in the London Clinic. The whole industry is so hypocritical, they didn't even give Ida Lupino and Myra Loy a single Nomination.

At least Barbara, Cary, and Deborah were given n Honorary Oscar towards the end of their careers.

Oscars have sometimes proved to be the kiss of death to a career, Luise Rainer being a prime example. She won two years in succession, the second time for The Good Earth, beating Barbara in her first Nomination for Stella Dallas. Just a year later she fell out with Louis B Mayer, and she was dumped by MGM.

Susan Hayward never had another hit film after finally winning at her fifth attempt for I Want to Live.

I know it is not her best film, but I love Doris in Midnight Lace, she goes way over the top in the hysterical scenes, but I think that it is great fun, and Hollywood's idea of London is hilarious.

I am a big fan of the first two Jane's, I especially love Jane Wyman in Hitchcock's Stage Fright, she does a great cockney accent. Jane Russell proved that she was much more than a girl with big boobs. She was great in comedy, and just sublime with Marilyn in Gentleman Prefer Blondes.

Jayne Mansfield was looked upon as a threat to Marilyn, which of course she wasn't, nor were any of the others. She had a short time in the limelight, she was a gimmick at that time, and is all but forgotten, apart from those of us who were around in the 1950's.
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Old 07-08-2014, 22:49
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We lost the voice of Pinocchio last month:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...-obituary.html
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:15
Hildaonpluto
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Check out @darraghknowlan's Tweet: https://twitter.com/darraghknowlan/s...01767583518720

Hope were not close to losing another hollywood legend-Angela Lansbury is in a wheelchair after breaking her hip

Do you know much about Jane Wymans life away from the screen Walter?How did she fit into the hollywood social scene and did she romance any of her leading men?

I know she married Ronald Reagan but Im not sure if they met on a filmset?
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:16
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Thank You.I find it both sad but interesting to hear of this unique era gradually fading away.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:43
Walter Neff
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Check out @darraghknowlan's Tweet: https://twitter.com/darraghknowlan/s...01767583518720

Hope were not close to losing another hollywood legend-Angela Lansbury is in a wheelchair after breaking her hip

Do you know much about Jane Wymans life away from the screen Walter?How did she fit into the hollywood social scene and did she romance any of her leading men?

I know she married Ronald Reagan but Im not sure if they met on a filmset?
Jane first married dress manufacturer Myron Futterman in June 1937, they separated after three months of marriage when she discovered that he didn't want children, and she did, they divorced in 1938.

Jane and Reagan met at Warner's while filming Brother Rat in 1938, and then they did the sequel, Brother Rat and a Baby in 1940, and they married that same year. Jane said that they grew apart as he became increasingly involved in politics, even back in the 1940's, when he had a busy but modest film career. She filed for divorce in 1948, the year that she won the Best Actress Oscar for Johnny Belinda. Incidentally, she beat her good friend Barbara, who received her fourth and last Nomination for Sorry, Wrong Number.
The divorce was finalized in 1949, and Jane never ever discussed her ex husband or his politics. As she explained to an interviewer years later, "It is not because I am bitter, or because I disagree with his politics, I have always been a registered Republican. It is just bad taste to talk about ex husbands or ex wives, also I don't know a damn thing about politics. In spite of her divorce, she voted for her ex husband in the 1980 and 1984 Presidential election. A few days after Reagan died in June 2004 Jane broke her silence by saying, "America has lost a great President, and a great, kind, and gentle man."

What a classy lady she was!

Jane was engaged briefly in 1952 to Travis Kleefield, a building contractor, and son of a socially prominent Beverley Hills family. Whether it was because she was 12 years older, or because his family disapproved, the engagement was over in three weeks.

Following that brief relationship, Jane married Hollywood composer and musical director Fred Karger in 1952. They separated in November 1954, and were divorced the following month. They re married in March 1961, and divorced again in March 1965, after he said that she walked out on him.

Jane never married again, and died in September 2007 aged 90.

Incredibly, she got the role of Angela Channing in Falcon Crest after Barbara turned it down. I can't imagine why, because it seemed ideal for her.
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Old 10-08-2014, 15:13
Hildaonpluto
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Jane first married dress manufacturer Myron Futterman in June 1937, they separated after three months of marriage when she discovered that he didn't want children, and she did, they divorced in 1938.

Jane and Reagan met at Warner's while filming Brother Rat in 1938, and then they did the sequel, Brother Rat and a Baby in 1940, and they married that same year. Jane said that they grew apart as he became increasingly involved in politics, even back in the 1940's, when he had a busy but modest film career. She filed for divorce in 1948, the year that she won the Best Actress Oscar for Johnny Belinda. Incidentally, she beat her good friend Barbara, who received her fourth and last Nomination for Sorry, Wrong Number.
The divorce was finalized in 1949, and Jane never ever discussed her ex husband or his politics. As she explained to an interviewer years later, "It is not because I am bitter, or because I disagree with his politics, I have always been a registered Republican. It is just bad taste to talk about ex husbands or ex wives, also I don't know a damn thing about politics. In spite of her divorce, she voted for her ex husband in the 1980 and 1984 Presidential election. A few days after Reagan died in June 2004 Jane broke her silence by saying, "America has lost a great President, and a great, kind, and gentle man."

What a classy lady she was!

Jane was engaged briefly in 1952 to Travis Kleefield, a building contractor, and son of a socially prominent Beverley Hills family. Whether it was because she was 12 years older, or because his family disapproved, the engagement was over in three weeks.

Following that brief relationship, Jane married Hollywood composer and musical director Fred Karger in 1952. They separated in November 1954, and were divorced the following month. They re married in March 1961, and divorced again in March 1965, after he said that she walked out on him.

Jane never married again, and died in September 2007 aged 90.

Incredibly, she got the role of Angela Channing in Falcon Crest after Barbara turned it down. I can't imagine why, because it seemed ideal for her.
Im incredibly impressed by your detailed knowledge and Im very grateful to you for sharing it.
Im sure I read a male costar of Janes from Falcon Crest CLAIM that she was off with somecast members and it was his theory that was because she had issues with her ex becoming the most powerful man in the world and indicated that when he left office she mellowed?Any thoughts on this?

Am I right in thinking that Jane Russell too was a republician?I found Jane Russell charismatic in interviews and I know going by a Daily Mail interview that she wasnt at all convinced that her friend Marilyn Monroes death was as it appeared.
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Old 11-08-2014, 06:23
Walter Neff
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Im incredibly impressed by your detailed knowledge and Im very grateful to you for sharing it.
Im sure I read a male costar of Janes from Falcon Crest CLAIM that she was off with somecast members and it was his theory that was because she had issues with her ex becoming the most powerful man in the world and indicated that when he left office she mellowed?Any thoughts on this?

Am I right in thinking that Jane Russell too was a republician?I found Jane Russell charismatic in interviews and I know going by a Daily Mail interview that she wasnt at all convinced that her friend Marilyn Monroes death was as it appeared.
You are very welcome, I love chatting about the Golden Age of Hollywood. I know nothing about todays films and stars, but I must admit that I do know quite a lot about those days when I was growing up.

All I know about Jane Wyman was that she was very similar to Barbara when it came to co-workers who were not as professional as she was. Working on a TV series is much tougher than working in films, the working schedule is longer and faster, and the hours longer. When Lana Turner went into Falcon Crest as a guest star she expected the same treatment that she had at MGM, with a limousine from her dressing room to the set. Jane told her in no uncertain terms that there were no stars in her show, and that it was a team effort. Needless to say, Lana's time on the show didn't last long.

This is what Jane Russell had to say about her Political views:

"I've always been a Republican, and when I was in Hollywood long ago, everyone was a Republican. The studio heads were all Republican, my boss Howard Hughes was a raving Republican. We had a Motion Picture Code in those days, so you couldn't do all this naughty stuff. We had John Wayne and Robert Mitchum, and we had a man named Ronald Reagan."

I have never heard Jane's views on Marilyn's death, but I have always been convinced that the Kennedy's were involved. I am quite sure that they were ruthless enough to have her silenced, she knew too much about Jack and Bobby.
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Old 13-08-2014, 08:57
Walter Neff
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Thanks for the new thread on the sad passing of Lauren Bacall, she certainly deserves it.

Apart from "Applause" she also starred in another musical version of a classic movie, "Woman of the Year," in which she played the role originally created onscreen by her good friend, Katharine Hepburn.
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Old 13-08-2014, 12:39
Hildaonpluto
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Thanks for the new thread on the sad passing of Lauren Bacall, she certainly deserves it.

Apart from "Applause" she also starred in another musical version of a classic movie, "Woman of the Year," in which she played the role originally created onscreen by her good friend, Katharine Hepburn.
I was in a quandry as I didnt want to jeopardise/undermine this thread but Ms Bacall was such a big name I felt she needed her own thread. Dora Bryan,Lauren Bacall,James Garner,Elaine Stritch all so recently as well as of course Joan Lorring.Seems to be one of those years.Goodness knows whos next.
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