Oh its trotted out each time for publicity purposes. Same with every new Bond girl "This one is different.She's more his equal" has been spouted since Thunderball.
Only Martha has the skills to match the old companions. Look at this bunch
Barbara Wright - history teacher
Vikki - knowledge of future history
Zoe Heriot - mathematics genius
Dr Liz Shaw - Cambridge physics proffessor
Sarah Jane Smith - independent journalist
Leela - warrior
Romanatrevunderlunder - Time Lady
Nyssa - bioscientist
Melanie - computer programmer
Old series companions were no bimbos.
In fact it was probably the men who were a bit wet. Look at Jamie brave as a lion but daft as a brush. Adric mopey teenager who's good at maths but probably never had a girlfriend. Ian Chesterton was probably the most capable of them all
In fact it was probably the men who were a bit wet. Look at Jamie brave as a lion but daft as a brush. Adric mopey teenager who's good at maths but probably never had a girlfriend. Ian Chesterton was probably the most capable of them all
Agreed. Sometimes, like most sitcoms, it seems like they're overcompensating for sexism by making the females sensible and intelligent, and the men only capable of solving problems with their fists.
The Doctor's companions really only exist so that he has someone to rescue and to talk to. Was it Invasion of Time or The Deadly Assassin where The Doctor was on his own most of the time but would stop for the odd soliloquy from time to time. Tom Baker could pull that sort of thing off but could any of these new guys get away with it?
Didn't Tom Baker want a cabbage for a companion once???
In all fairness, the Doctor not having a companion is quite rare, and deadly assassin is really the only one in classic who, so he hasn't really been able to ever realise to full extent how much he needs one untill the new series...in TDA he is on Gallifrey, with some support from fellow race...but in the next story...even if he doesn't exactly ask Leela on board, throughout she behaves like his companion...which niether does anyone on Midnight, or in Water's of Mars....hence why it is brought to the forfront of his need for a companion...and it can be presumed that in Turn Left, due to Donna not being the One off companion at that time, he was either alone, or the bride who got caught up in the mess of the Racnoss instead of Donna was dead or didn't bother with wanting to help the Doctor...like Donna had done in the RB....
I don't know, Doc Four seemed pretty upset at having to dump Sarah back on Earth. Doc Three downed a glass of something when Jo walked off with her new hubby. Doc Five was forced to be the consoler when Adric died, but it was obvious he was pretty upset too, because he couldn't save him. Fixed points in time and all that. He actually misses these people, he is an alien who *shock horror* has feelings.
RTD gave Who the 'Time War' to inject some much needed mystery and solemnity in regards to the Doctor's past and to highlight the purpose of the companion. Its only a load of guff if you can't appreciate the unavoidable sadness that comes with mortality, war and friendship. Its called depth.
In a human life, its just about bearable. Times it by ten and that's what RTD and SM imagine its like for a Time Lord.
I'd go further than that - the key episodes I was thinking of are 'The Christmas Invasion', his very first episode, where he's flippant when he's enjoying it, but as soon as someone crosses the line, mercy goes out the window. Then 'Runaway Bride', which is revisited in 'Turn Left' - that his sense of authority overrides his 'humanity', he needs someone to remind him of the small picture, something picked up in 'Fires of Pompeii'.
And we all know the ultimate expression of his self-absorbed side, in 'Waters of Mars'.
I think it's a pretty classic literary arrangement - the talented, strong, skilled hero, who needs a grounded character to protect him from descending into hubris.
And I think that's fine for that incarnation of the Doctor - the Fourth's was different, and the Eleventh's different again.
That's probably true, in the long run. The companion is only there so that The Doctor has someone to voice his thoughts to and as somene the audience could relate to.
I reckon Matt Smith could pull off a soliloquy, he has that sort of personality...but then he'd just get 'ear-ache'.
Without the companion (for the long run), the show would be pretty darn boring, and half its potential story lines would vanish.
I hate to tell you this but there were some Doctors who didnt even notice their companions were there.Mels departure in Dragonfire was barely noticed by McCoy.
Toms Doctor was quite happy in Galiifrey on his own and more or less said "no" to Leela when she hinted at joining him in Face of Evil. Davison more or less couldnt hide his delight when Tegan was left behind and disapointment when she met them again in Amsterdam.
This "the companion is there to restrain the Doctor" is a load of guff invented by RTD to justify the existance of the naggy Donna. The Doctor restrains the Doctor and Donnas "I think you need someone to stop you" is pandering to a demographic who need to be reassured that the woman isnt being left out.
Matt Smiths Doctor is probably happy enough on his own. He is certainly one of the most alien. He likes Rory and Amy but could certainly do an adventure on his own.
I hate to tell you this but there were some Doctors who didnt even notice their companions were there.Mels departure in Dragonfire was barely noticed by McCoy.
Toms Doctor was quite happy in Galiifrey on his own and more or less said "no" to Leela when she hinted at joining him in Face of Evil. Davison more or less couldnt hide his delight when Tegan was left behind and disapointment when she met them again in Amsterdam.
This "the companion is there to restrain the Doctor" is a load of guff invented by RTD to justify the existance of the naggy Donna. The Doctor restrains the Doctor and Donnas "I think you need someone to stop you" is pandering to a demographic who need to be reassured that the woman isnt being left out.
Matt Smiths Doctor is probably happy enough on his own. He is certainly one of the most alien. He likes Rory and Amy but could certainly do an adventure on his own.
Ten sometimes ignored Martha...didn't appreciate Jack always...doesn't mean he didn't need them!!!! The Doctor can be like that!!!! Four may have said no to Leela, but that doesn't mean she wasn't at all usefull in Face of Evil....in fact she was very useful!!! When sometimes companions are sidelined in classic Who, and sticks out like a sour thumb, for example the case of Tegan......but when she did actually leave the Doctor seemed quite sad about it...but he still had Turlough to keep a brave face for.....
If the Doctor never cared...why do you think the first Doctor admitted to Vicky that he will miss both Ian and Barbara??? This isn't new guff by RTD...it goes back all the way to the first time when Ian stopped the Doctor from killing an injured man!!!! Why does he say to Susan that all these years she has been taking care of him, and him of her if he doesn't need anyone?
I'm sorry Broadshoulder....but this is your usual pick and choose attitude when it comes to criticising anything RTD has done....before series 5 started you were going on about being glad how all the emo stuff won't appear now...but not once have you mentioned how love seemed to be the soltion to most of the stories in series 5....as for the Eleventh Doctor not needing a companion....did you watch the Beast Below???? He seemed pretty much in need of Amy, otherwise he would have made a mistake....or maybe the Big bang...when his whole existance realied in a little girl....or the fact that he tempts both Amy and Rory to carry on travelling with him?
We don't know whether the Eleventh Doctor can do an adventure like Midnight on his own....when his enemy in Amy's Choice was himself!!!!
This "the companion is there to restrain the Doctor" is a load of guff invented by RTD to justify the existance of the naggy Donna. The Doctor restrains the Doctor and Donnas "I think you need someone to stop you" is pandering to a demographic who need to be reassured that the woman isnt being left out.
Matt Smiths Doctor is probably happy enough on his own. He is certainly one of the most alien. He likes Rory and Amy but could certainly do an adventure on his own.
Watch Amy's Choice again. The Doc still has those demons. Leave Eleven in the wrong company for a good amount of time, he would break - but that's been done with Ten so its pretty much a creative decision not to go down that road again.
You're only part right about it being to 'justify the existence' of the 'naggy' (?) Donna - in the sense that it was 'guff' that was brought to the fore as a sub-plot across the entire era. That 'guff' has been there since the beginning, though.
"Pandering to a demographic"? The only demographic I think its 'pandering' to are those who know that there's a scary reason why people need other people around them.
Ten sometimes ignored Martha...didn't appreciate Jack always...doesn't mean he didn't need them!!!! The Doctor can be like that!!!! Four may have said no to Leela, but that doesn't mean she wasn't at all usefull in Face of Evil....in fact she was very useful!!! When sometimes companions are sidelined in classic Who, and sticks out like a sour thumb, for example the case of Tegan......but when she did actually leave the Doctor seemed quite sad about it...but he still had Turlough to keep a brave face for.....
If the Doctor never cared...why do you think the first Doctor admitted to Vicky that he will miss both Ian and Barbara??? This isn't new guff by RTD...it goes back all the way to the first time when Ian stopped the Doctor from killing an injured man!!!! Why does he say to Susan that all these years she has been taking care of him, and him of her if he doesn't need anyone?
I'm sorry Broadshoulder....but this is your usual pick and choose attitude when it comes to criticising anything RTD has done....before series 5 started you were going on about being glad how all the emo stuff won't appear now...but not once have you mentioned how love seemed to be the soltion to most of the stories in series 5....as for the Eleventh Doctor not needing a companion....did you watch the Beast Below???? He seemed pretty much in need of Amy, otherwise he would have made a mistake....or maybe the Big bang...when his whole existance realied in a little girl....or the fact that he tempts both Amy and Rory to carry on travelling with him?
We don't know whether the Eleventh Doctor can do an adventure like Midnight on his own....when his enemy in Amy's Choice was himself!!!!
I agree with you, anyone who wants the companion to be a nice piece of meat and nothing else needs their head examined. The doctor was sad at Tegan leaving (I watched it yesterday!). The doctor loves company, that's why he choses companions, if he was so self-sufficient, he would travel alone. I'm always surprised how people see one thing in the classic series, and then conclude that the new series is so much different, when it really isn't in reality. Anyway, one thing New Who has done is to introduce believable female companions. They are not cutout characters:rolleyes:.
Watch Amy's Choice again. The Doc still has those demons. Leave Eleven in the wrong company for a good amount of time, he would break - but that's been done with Ten so its pretty much a creative decision not to go down that road again.
You're only part right about it being to 'justify the existence' of the 'naggy' (?) Donna - in the sense that it was 'guff' that was brought to the fore as a sub-plot across the entire era. That 'guff' has been there since the beginning, though.
"Pandering to a demographic"? The only demographic I think its 'pandering' to are those who know that there's a scary reason why people need other people around them.
yes....it was what you call a character and story arc....much similar to Amy's life not making any sense...oh but as that is by SM...companions are allowed to be be fleshed out;)
I agree with you, anyone who wants the companion to be a nice piece of meat and nothing else needs their head examined. The doctor was sad at Tegan leaving (I watched it yesterday!). The doctor loves company, that's why he choses companions, if he was so self-sufficient, he would travel alone. I'm always surprised how people see one thing in the classic series, and then conclude that the new series is so much different, when it really isn't in reality. Anyway, one thing New Who has done is to introduce believable female companions. They are not cutout characters:rolleyes:.
Actually that made me think about the Deadly assassin.....while the new series and the moments of being companionless were definitely a creative decision....I could be wrong and please anyone feel free to correct me, but wasn't the reason we didn't get a proper companion for the Deadly Assassin because Baker didn't want one??? or was that the cabbage story that I am getting confused with???
If the Doctor never cared...why do you think the first Doctor admitted to Vicky that he will miss both Ian and Barbara??? This isn't new guff by RTD...it goes back all the way to the first time when Ian stopped the Doctor from killing an injured man!!!! Why does he say to Susan that all these years she has been taking care of him, and him of her if he doesn't need anyone?
David Tennant. A Doctor for people who thought Peter Davison
was too tough.
Well it was Ten who punished the Family of Blood, and sent Harriet Jones packing, and caused the suicide of the person he considerd a hero......all done when not blubbing apparently;)
Well it was Ten who punished the Family of Blood, and sent Harriet Jones packing, and caused the suicide of the person he considerd a hero......all done when not blubbing apparently;)
Maybe this was why I never liked Tennant as much. I loved HJ and what he did was a bit too far.
Tennant had a far better reason, though. He read the rumours. He knew she was the Supreme Dalek.
I'd done the same if that was the case!!!!!:D
In all seriousness though....that was a prime example of the Time Lord Victorious brewing in Ten, we catch another glimpse of it in School Reunion when he gets tempted by the universe code....and Sarah is the one to remind him that loss is part of life....
In all seriousness though....that was a prime example of the Time Lord Victorious brewing in Ten, we catch another glimpse of it in School Reunion when he gets tempted by the universe code....and Sarah is the one to remind him that loss is part of life....
I still think his actions with Harriet Jones were wrong and we could have explored this a bit better. I watched the 2 finales of series 4 yesterday, and although he is struck by it, I would have liked to see a bit more ..... well I don't something. I think ten did took the wrong decision deposing Harriet Jones.
I still think his actions with Harriet Jones were wrong and we could have explored this a bit better. I watched the 2 finales of series 4 yesterday, and although he is struck by it, I would have liked to see a bit more ..... well I don't something. I think ten did took the wrong decision deposing Harriet Jones.
After all, he forgave the Master after he had brought an end to human civilisation. It wasn't a very nice debut act to depose her...everyone makes mistakes...
I still think his actions with Harriet Jones were wrong and we could have explored this a bit better. I watched the 2 finales of series 4 yesterday, and although he is struck by it, I would have liked to see a bit more ..... well I don't something. I think ten did took the wrong decision deposing Harriet Jones.
I felt that the eventual conclusion of the Harriet Jones story was meant to lead us to the conclusion that the Doctor had judged her too harshly.
I still think his actions with Harriet Jones were wrong and we could have explored this a bit better. I watched the 2 finales of series 4 yesterday, and although he is struck by it, I would have liked to see a bit more ..... well I don't something. I think ten did took the wrong decision deposing Harriet Jones.
After all, he forgave the Master after he had brought an end to human civilisation. It wasn't a very nice debut act to depose her...everyone makes mistakes...
In terms of Harriet Jones, and her decision to order TW to attack the sycorax is not a simple black and white right and wrong answer in my opinion. Yes I love Jones very much, very brave women and all that....but the decision she made is questionable, and it depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on.....me, I am sitting on the fence...because I can see her point, and her duty to protect her country and people, but at the same time its the fact that they were sailing away, when they were attacking, and were threatening the human race, she was keen to talk to them, find another way, dismiss the American president by saying that she won't let him make this into war of his, yet when they were running away scared, she does what she probably had a problem with the President doing. therefore that makes me understand why the Doctor got angry, he just defeated them, they weren't a threat, and harriet just killed them because she felt she was doing the right thing. I feel his punishement was harsh, but they both egging each other on at that time, so his "Time Lord Victorious" came across where he decided that she deserved to be taken off power, in a sense changing the whole history of Britian's Golden Age......so they both have their good and bad points.
The reason it isn't explored in more detail there, because its not meant to be...the whole moral principle of both the Doctor and Harriet Jones's actions are ambigious, and deep. Its not a single word answer "I was wrong"....when Davros told him, he felt guilty, you could tell by his face, but what could he say? and who could he say it too? Harriet was dead....was it a result of his actions? or was it because she was the same brave woman that he first met in Downing Street, that would have done that even if the Doctor hadn't knocked her out of power....so depsite her so called flaw while in power, she was in the end shown as a hero, again putting an ambigious stnce on when we last saw her....not one striaght answer...
And I love that.....The Doctor is flawed, Harriet is flawed....and yet they are both heroes....
As for the Master, well punishing him is exactly what the Master wanted.....not forgiveness.....look at the way he goads them all to shoot him when they catch him. and Plus the Doctor is desperate, and the Master is his childhood friend....he doesn't expect the Master to do good things...while he did expect that of Harriet Jones...hence the difference...but in both cases he didn't want either dead....
Do you seriously think that Sarah Jane, Leela and Tegan were cutout characters? They were every bit as believable as the New Who companions.
I aplogise to Lach for speaking on her behalf and she is more than welcome to correct me if I am wrong....but I don't she mean that every single companion in classic Who is a cut-out character, but that New Who companions tend to be more fleshed out....so much so that the arcs even are about there character development...which wasn't often the case of Classic Who....yes I agree the likes of SJS are strong female characters....but sometimes stories like the Five Doctor's are culprits in making them nothing more than screamers......
I felt that the eventual conclusion of the Harriet Jones story was meant to lead us to the conclusion that the Doctor had judged her too harshly.
Not only that, but the fact he took that decision, allowed Saxon to come into power easily.....so again, he may have been right in some ways to feel angry...but was it the right decsion to punish her like that? it certainly didn't work out for the best for him....
In terms of Harriet Jones, and her decision to order TW to attack the sycorax is not a simple black and white right and wrong answer in my opinion. Yes I love Jones very much, very brave women and all that....but the decision she made is questionable, and it depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on.....me, I am sitting on the fence...because I can see her point, and her duty to protect her country and people, but at the same time its the fact that they were sailing away, when they were attacking, and were threatening the human race, she was keen to talk to them, find another way, dismiss the American president by saying that she won't let him make this into war of his, yet when they were running away scared, she does what she probably had a problem with the President doing. therefore that makes me understand why the Doctor got angry, he just defeated them, they weren't a threat, and harriet just killed them because she felt she was doing the right thing. I feel his punishement was harsh, but they both egging each other on at that time, so his "Time Lord Victorious" came across where he decided that she deserved to be taken off power, in a sense changing the whole history of Britian's Golden Age......so they both have their good and bad points.
Harriet's argument - that they knew where to find Earth and could return for another try - certainly makes sense.
As for the Master, well punishing him is exactly what the Master wanted.....not forgiveness.....look at the way he goads them all to shoot him when they catch him. and Plus the Doctor is desperate, and the Master is his childhood friend....he doesn't expect the Master to do good things...while he did expect that of Harriet Jones...hence the difference...but in both cases he didn't want either dead....
One has to remember too that the Master is the only other member of the Doctor's species surviving. It's understandable in that context that he might baulk at klling him.
Harriet's argument - that they knew where to find Earth and could return for another try - certainly makes sense.
And the Doctor's not always available. It was the same argument he had with the Brig, who had to stay here, was briefed to protect the planet and couldn't just leave (for whatever reason).
Harriet's argument - that they knew where to find Earth and could return for another try - certainly makes sense.
What I find interesting is that the Doctor didn't just reject that argument, he retaliated. Just like we saw with the Sycorax, no second chances - his way or the highway. It didn't matter to him then that Harriet Jones' time as PM affected the rest of history. Surely, deposing her and allowing the Master to move in had at least as many consequences as 'Waters of Mars'?
Those flashes of arrogance cropped up right through Tenth's tenure.
And the Doctor's not always available. It was the same argument he had with the Brig, who had to stay here, was briefed to protect the planet and couldn't just leave (for whatever reason).
Yes in her mind it might of made sense....but does it make it morally right, that is the question, after all you forget that the Doctor's principles aren't about just protecting Earth and the Humans.....when the Sycorax were the threat, he was agaisnt them, when they weren't he was glad they were just going off....and yes maybe they may have told others about planet Earth, but nobody told them apart form the humans themselves, and if they can come in the first place, then killing them will not stop others from invading.....if anything there defeat could have been an example to other alien races to stay away....now they will never know because of the decision she made....she has to protect the Earth, but she spent most of the story trying to protect it like the Doctor would....by trying to reason with them as much as possible....and only when they were running away, she felt that she needed to kill them, because her pride for Earth, and the power she had to protect it came to the forefront.....by all means the Doctor would have no problem with the earth trying to defend itself (like he says in doomsday to the Cybermen)....but at that point the Doctor didn't feel she was defending...she was making a point in a harsher and unfair way in his opinion.....so while I see her point of view, I can also see why it annoyed the Doctor....but he too acted harshley....and it came to bite him back....
What I find interesting is that the Doctor didn't just reject that argument, he retaliated. Just like we saw with the Sycorax, no second chances - his way or the highway. It didn't matter to him then that Harriet Jones' time as PM affected the rest of history. Surely, deposing her and allowing the Master to move in had at least as many consequences as 'Waters of Mars'?
Those flashes of arrogance cropped up right through Tenth's tenure.
I feel the golden age of Britain may have not been a fixed point of time....but something of a flux.....I say that because when the Ninth Doctor met HJ, he couldn't quite put a finger on who she was....only after the events of the Slitheen that it became a sure fire that she would indeed became PM, he rememberd who she was....and maybe that was because the events of Christmas Invasion.....it could have gone either way depending on what Ten decided....
I think with the Sycorax it was less the highway thing, because he killed him as he was about to attack the Doctor, while with Harriet, he didn't agree with her...so it was the highway.....and yes defenite flashes of arrogance....
I feel the golden age of Britain may have not been a fixed point of time....but something of a flux.....I say that because when the Ninth Doctor met HJ, he couldn't quite put a finger on who she was....only after the events of the Slitheen that it became a sure fire that she would indeed became PM, he rememberd who she was....and maybe that was because the events of Christmas Invasion.....it could have gone either way depending on what Ten decided....
Whether it was physically possible or not, it would still have a devastating effect on future events. The Doctor would have known that, and yet he still bent those laws.
Also worth noting that as well as creating a power vacuum for the Master to exploit, she was also proved correct in The Stolen Earth, when her prediction of a time when the Doctor couldn't protect the Earth came true. It couldn't just be left to the Doctor to take the responsibility as defender, they had to be able to protect themselves.
I think with the Sycorax it was less the highway thing, because he killed him as he was about to attack the Doctor, while with Harriet, he didn't agree with her...so it was the highway.....and yes defenite flashes of arrogance....
The Sycorax wasn't just hoisted by his own petard though, the Doctor actively punished him for his attack.
Comments
In fact it was probably the men who were a bit wet. Look at Jamie brave as a lion but daft as a brush. Adric mopey teenager who's good at maths but probably never had a girlfriend. Ian Chesterton was probably the most capable of them all
Agreed. Sometimes, like most sitcoms, it seems like they're overcompensating for sexism by making the females sensible and intelligent, and the men only capable of solving problems with their fists.
Didn't Tom Baker want a cabbage for a companion once???
In all fairness, the Doctor not having a companion is quite rare, and deadly assassin is really the only one in classic who, so he hasn't really been able to ever realise to full extent how much he needs one untill the new series...in TDA he is on Gallifrey, with some support from fellow race...but in the next story...even if he doesn't exactly ask Leela on board, throughout she behaves like his companion...which niether does anyone on Midnight, or in Water's of Mars....hence why it is brought to the forfront of his need for a companion...and it can be presumed that in Turn Left, due to Donna not being the One off companion at that time, he was either alone, or the bride who got caught up in the mess of the Racnoss instead of Donna was dead or didn't bother with wanting to help the Doctor...like Donna had done in the RB....
agree with what you both have said....
Toms Doctor was quite happy in Galiifrey on his own and more or less said "no" to Leela when she hinted at joining him in Face of Evil. Davison more or less couldnt hide his delight when Tegan was left behind and disapointment when she met them again in Amsterdam.
This "the companion is there to restrain the Doctor" is a load of guff invented by RTD to justify the existance of the naggy Donna. The Doctor restrains the Doctor and Donnas "I think you need someone to stop you" is pandering to a demographic who need to be reassured that the woman isnt being left out.
Matt Smiths Doctor is probably happy enough on his own. He is certainly one of the most alien. He likes Rory and Amy but could certainly do an adventure on his own.
Ten sometimes ignored Martha...didn't appreciate Jack always...doesn't mean he didn't need them!!!! The Doctor can be like that!!!! Four may have said no to Leela, but that doesn't mean she wasn't at all usefull in Face of Evil....in fact she was very useful!!! When sometimes companions are sidelined in classic Who, and sticks out like a sour thumb, for example the case of Tegan......but when she did actually leave the Doctor seemed quite sad about it...but he still had Turlough to keep a brave face for.....
If the Doctor never cared...why do you think the first Doctor admitted to Vicky that he will miss both Ian and Barbara??? This isn't new guff by RTD...it goes back all the way to the first time when Ian stopped the Doctor from killing an injured man!!!! Why does he say to Susan that all these years she has been taking care of him, and him of her if he doesn't need anyone?
I'm sorry Broadshoulder....but this is your usual pick and choose attitude when it comes to criticising anything RTD has done....before series 5 started you were going on about being glad how all the emo stuff won't appear now...but not once have you mentioned how love seemed to be the soltion to most of the stories in series 5....as for the Eleventh Doctor not needing a companion....did you watch the Beast Below???? He seemed pretty much in need of Amy, otherwise he would have made a mistake....or maybe the Big bang...when his whole existance realied in a little girl....or the fact that he tempts both Amy and Rory to carry on travelling with him?
We don't know whether the Eleventh Doctor can do an adventure like Midnight on his own....when his enemy in Amy's Choice was himself!!!!
Watch Amy's Choice again. The Doc still has those demons. Leave Eleven in the wrong company for a good amount of time, he would break - but that's been done with Ten so its pretty much a creative decision not to go down that road again.
You're only part right about it being to 'justify the existence' of the 'naggy' (?) Donna - in the sense that it was 'guff' that was brought to the fore as a sub-plot across the entire era. That 'guff' has been there since the beginning, though.
"Pandering to a demographic"? The only demographic I think its 'pandering' to are those who know that there's a scary reason why people need other people around them.
I agree with you, anyone who wants the companion to be a nice piece of meat and nothing else needs their head examined. The doctor was sad at Tegan leaving (I watched it yesterday!). The doctor loves company, that's why he choses companions, if he was so self-sufficient, he would travel alone. I'm always surprised how people see one thing in the classic series, and then conclude that the new series is so much different, when it really isn't in reality. Anyway, one thing New Who has done is to introduce believable female companions. They are not cutout characters:rolleyes:.
yes....it was what you call a character and story arc....much similar to Amy's life not making any sense...oh but as that is by SM...companions are allowed to be be fleshed out;)
Actually that made me think about the Deadly assassin.....while the new series and the moments of being companionless were definitely a creative decision....I could be wrong and please anyone feel free to correct me, but wasn't the reason we didn't get a proper companion for the Deadly Assassin because Baker didn't want one??? or was that the cabbage story that I am getting confused with???
Yep, the very first story!
And that moment says it all.......:)
David Tennant. A Doctor for people who thought Peter Davison
was too tough.
Well it was Ten who punished the Family of Blood, and sent Harriet Jones packing, and caused the suicide of the person he considerd a hero......all done when not blubbing apparently;)
Maybe this was why I never liked Tennant as much. I loved HJ and what he did was a bit too far.
Tennant had a far better reason, though. He read the rumours. He knew she was the Supreme Dalek.
I'd done the same if that was the case!!!!!:D
In all seriousness though....that was a prime example of the Time Lord Victorious brewing in Ten, we catch another glimpse of it in School Reunion when he gets tempted by the universe code....and Sarah is the one to remind him that loss is part of life....
I still think his actions with Harriet Jones were wrong and we could have explored this a bit better. I watched the 2 finales of series 4 yesterday, and although he is struck by it, I would have liked to see a bit more ..... well I don't something. I think ten did took the wrong decision deposing Harriet Jones.
After all, he forgave the Master after he had brought an end to human civilisation. It wasn't a very nice debut act to depose her...everyone makes mistakes...
Do you seriously think that Sarah Jane, Leela and Tegan were cutout characters? They were every bit as believable as the New Who companions.
I felt that the eventual conclusion of the Harriet Jones story was meant to lead us to the conclusion that the Doctor had judged her too harshly.
In terms of Harriet Jones, and her decision to order TW to attack the sycorax is not a simple black and white right and wrong answer in my opinion. Yes I love Jones very much, very brave women and all that....but the decision she made is questionable, and it depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on.....me, I am sitting on the fence...because I can see her point, and her duty to protect her country and people, but at the same time its the fact that they were sailing away, when they were attacking, and were threatening the human race, she was keen to talk to them, find another way, dismiss the American president by saying that she won't let him make this into war of his, yet when they were running away scared, she does what she probably had a problem with the President doing. therefore that makes me understand why the Doctor got angry, he just defeated them, they weren't a threat, and harriet just killed them because she felt she was doing the right thing. I feel his punishement was harsh, but they both egging each other on at that time, so his "Time Lord Victorious" came across where he decided that she deserved to be taken off power, in a sense changing the whole history of Britian's Golden Age......so they both have their good and bad points.
The reason it isn't explored in more detail there, because its not meant to be...the whole moral principle of both the Doctor and Harriet Jones's actions are ambigious, and deep. Its not a single word answer "I was wrong"....when Davros told him, he felt guilty, you could tell by his face, but what could he say? and who could he say it too? Harriet was dead....was it a result of his actions? or was it because she was the same brave woman that he first met in Downing Street, that would have done that even if the Doctor hadn't knocked her out of power....so depsite her so called flaw while in power, she was in the end shown as a hero, again putting an ambigious stnce on when we last saw her....not one striaght answer...
And I love that.....The Doctor is flawed, Harriet is flawed....and yet they are both heroes....
As for the Master, well punishing him is exactly what the Master wanted.....not forgiveness.....look at the way he goads them all to shoot him when they catch him. and Plus the Doctor is desperate, and the Master is his childhood friend....he doesn't expect the Master to do good things...while he did expect that of Harriet Jones...hence the difference...but in both cases he didn't want either dead....
I aplogise to Lach for speaking on her behalf and she is more than welcome to correct me if I am wrong....but I don't she mean that every single companion in classic Who is a cut-out character, but that New Who companions tend to be more fleshed out....so much so that the arcs even are about there character development...which wasn't often the case of Classic Who....yes I agree the likes of SJS are strong female characters....but sometimes stories like the Five Doctor's are culprits in making them nothing more than screamers......
Not only that, but the fact he took that decision, allowed Saxon to come into power easily.....so again, he may have been right in some ways to feel angry...but was it the right decsion to punish her like that? it certainly didn't work out for the best for him....
Harriet's argument - that they knew where to find Earth and could return for another try - certainly makes sense.
One has to remember too that the Master is the only other member of the Doctor's species surviving. It's understandable in that context that he might baulk at klling him.
And the Doctor's not always available. It was the same argument he had with the Brig, who had to stay here, was briefed to protect the planet and couldn't just leave (for whatever reason).
What I find interesting is that the Doctor didn't just reject that argument, he retaliated. Just like we saw with the Sycorax, no second chances - his way or the highway. It didn't matter to him then that Harriet Jones' time as PM affected the rest of history. Surely, deposing her and allowing the Master to move in had at least as many consequences as 'Waters of Mars'?
Those flashes of arrogance cropped up right through Tenth's tenure.
Yes in her mind it might of made sense....but does it make it morally right, that is the question, after all you forget that the Doctor's principles aren't about just protecting Earth and the Humans.....when the Sycorax were the threat, he was agaisnt them, when they weren't he was glad they were just going off....and yes maybe they may have told others about planet Earth, but nobody told them apart form the humans themselves, and if they can come in the first place, then killing them will not stop others from invading.....if anything there defeat could have been an example to other alien races to stay away....now they will never know because of the decision she made....she has to protect the Earth, but she spent most of the story trying to protect it like the Doctor would....by trying to reason with them as much as possible....and only when they were running away, she felt that she needed to kill them, because her pride for Earth, and the power she had to protect it came to the forefront.....by all means the Doctor would have no problem with the earth trying to defend itself (like he says in doomsday to the Cybermen)....but at that point the Doctor didn't feel she was defending...she was making a point in a harsher and unfair way in his opinion.....so while I see her point of view, I can also see why it annoyed the Doctor....but he too acted harshley....and it came to bite him back....
I feel the golden age of Britain may have not been a fixed point of time....but something of a flux.....I say that because when the Ninth Doctor met HJ, he couldn't quite put a finger on who she was....only after the events of the Slitheen that it became a sure fire that she would indeed became PM, he rememberd who she was....and maybe that was because the events of Christmas Invasion.....it could have gone either way depending on what Ten decided....
I think with the Sycorax it was less the highway thing, because he killed him as he was about to attack the Doctor, while with Harriet, he didn't agree with her...so it was the highway.....and yes defenite flashes of arrogance....
Also worth noting that as well as creating a power vacuum for the Master to exploit, she was also proved correct in The Stolen Earth, when her prediction of a time when the Doctor couldn't protect the Earth came true. It couldn't just be left to the Doctor to take the responsibility as defender, they had to be able to protect themselves.
The Sycorax wasn't just hoisted by his own petard though, the Doctor actively punished him for his attack.