Want to return faulty item but refused refund

eluf38eluf38 Posts: 4,874
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We bought a spin dryer from Curry's PC World at the start of January. Because we've had the fire on so much we've dried clothes that way, so have used it fewer than 10 times. It broke at the start of March. It's under a year-long warantee, but the engineer said the motor has gone. Have been waiting all month for it to be repaired.
My thinking is that if a brand-new appliance can break after so little use, then it is clearly not a quality product and will probably break again. We only have a year's warrantee and don't want to have to pay for repairs. We want to return the dryer and get our money back.
Today I contacted CPW, only to be told that as it could be repaired they weren't willing to accept returns. If it breaks again, 'we can discuss further options'. To me, this is wrong. Something brand new and hardly used shouldn't have a major mechanical failure so soon after it was bought. If you bought a new pair of shoes and the heel broke, you wouldn't be satisfied with having the heel glued back on, would you?! I think we should be entitled to a refund.
Do we have any legal right to one, as the goods are faulty?
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Comments

  • dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,434
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    Sales of Good act:-

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act

    Though you may no longer be eligible for a refund.

    "Returning faulty goods
    If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to reject it which means you can give it back and get a refund.
    But, the law only gives you a reasonable time to do this – what's reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is.
    However, even with major purchases or complex items, it’s safest to work on the basis you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it."
  • eluf38eluf38 Posts: 4,874
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    dearmrman wrote: »
    Sales of Good act:-

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act

    Though you may no longer be eligible for a refund.

    "Returning faulty goods
    If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to reject it which means you can give it back and get a refund.
    But, the law only gives you a reasonable time to do this – what's reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is.
    However, even with major purchases or complex items, it’s safest to work on the basis you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it."

    That's what I tried to do today - it broke around March 3rd. I'm rejecting a repaired product, as I don't believe something new should break so easily. That was only 20 or so days ago; so I don't see why they are refusing?
  • An ThropologistAn Thropologist Posts: 39,844
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    The law is on your side and you are entitled to a full refund. As the poster above suggests you should read the Sale of Goods Act and bring its terms to the attention of the staff at the store where you purchased this.

    The act says that goods must be of merchantable quality. Implicit in that is a expectation of durability. The actual life expectancy of goods varies from item to item. For white goods this can be somewhat moot. there is no fixed life expectancy although I find 5 years is a good rule of thumb. However 3 months would not satisfy the reasonable man test. Nobody would consider a domestic appliance built with a 3 month life expectancy to be acceptable.

    I would write to their head office if you get no joy at the store. Thereafter you can approach trading standards or make a claim through the small claims courts.
  • dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,434
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    eluf38 wrote: »
    That's what I tried to do today - it broke around March 3rd. I'm rejecting a repaired product, as I don't believe something new should break so easily. That was only 20 or so days ago; so I don't see why they are refusing?

    I thought you said you brought it in January, in which case you have had it 7-8 weeks. A full refund entitlement comes under been able to reject the goods and what is considered reasonable time to do that, Which says about 3-4 weeks. I would have a word with CAB and see what they suggest.

    They certainly are obliged to repair or replace the faulty product, and this they have offered to do.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
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    The act says that goods must be of merchantable quality. Implicit in that is a expectation of durability.

    Implicit?

    It either says it or it doesn't. Which is it?
  • An ThropologistAn Thropologist Posts: 39,844
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    dearmrman wrote: »
    I thought you said you brought it in January, in which case you have had it 7-8 weeks. A full refund entitlement comes under been able to reject the goods and what is considered reasonable time to do that, Which says about 3-4 weeks. I would have a word with CAB and see what they suggest.

    They certainly are obliged to repair or replace the faulty product, and this they have offered to do.

    That sounds more like the time period one has to inspect and reject goods under distance selling legislation. Because you don't get to see the goods you ar ebuying until they arrive the law allows you to inspect them and reject them with no need to give a reason. You can reject them because they weren't what you expected.

    If the goods are actually faulty or develop a fault after a short time, relative to the type of goods bought, you have the right to a full refund. The goods can not be said to be of merchantable quality if they develop a fault after 3 months.
  • An ThropologistAn Thropologist Posts: 39,844
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    Inkblot wrote: »
    Implicit?

    It either says it or it doesn't. Which is it?

    Actually it doesn't. A reasonable life expectancy depends on the nature of the product or service. You wouldn't expect the same life expectancy from a piece of cheese as you would from a car for example. So to give specific time spans would necessitate the production of a schedule of every possible item one might buy. A schedule that would be out of date the moment it was published.

    To deal with this (and many other such problems) the law applies the reasonable man test. This is sometimes referred to as the Man on the Clapham Omnibus test. It askes what would be the expectations of the average person, one who is neither an idiot nor an expert in the subject matter concerned.
  • raymartin01raymartin01 Posts: 1,898
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    Slightly off topic, but I didn't know you could still buy stand-alone spin dryers?
  • eluf38eluf38 Posts: 4,874
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    dearmrman wrote: »
    I thought you said you brought it in January, in which case you have had it 7-8 weeks. A full refund entitlement comes under been able to reject the goods and what is considered reasonable time to do that, Which says about 3-4 weeks. I would have a word with CAB and see what they suggest.

    They certainly are obliged to repair or replace the faulty product, and this they have offered to do.

    It broke in March. I wouldn't have rejected it had it not broken. I would expect a brand new appliance to last several years, not two months. To me, a repaired product is not good enough as it clearly wasn't built to a decent standard in the first place. If I bought a dress and the seams tore when it was virtually unworn, I wouldn't expect them to offer to sew it and give it me back.

    If I'd had the dryer eleven months and used it hundreds of times, I'd consider a repair acceptable. But truthfully we've used this dryer less than ten times, it's not been lugged about or knocked over... so we've come to the conclusion that it's a shoddy product and likely to break again as it gets older.
  • eluf38eluf38 Posts: 4,874
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    Slightly off topic, but I didn't know you could still buy stand-alone spin dryers?

    You can; but I certainly wouldn't recommend buying one from Curry's PC World. Crap service in store, crap Customer Service.
  • dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,434
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    eluf38 wrote: »
    It broke in March. I wouldn't have rejected it had it not broken. I would expect a brand new appliance to last several years, not two months. To me, a repaired product is not good enough as it clearly wasn't built to a decent standard in the first place. If I bought a dress and the seams tore when it was virtually unworn, I wouldn't expect them to offer to sew it and give it me back.

    If I'd had the dryer eleven months and used it hundreds of times, I'd consider a repair acceptable. But truthfully we've used this dryer less than ten times, it's not been lugged about or knocked over... so we've come to the conclusion that it's a shoddy product and likely to break again as it gets older.

    As I say I would have a word with the CAB, see what they say...unfortunately looking at it, a right to a refund is classed under what is considered reasonable time, and reasonable time is not set in stone and will vary from person to person and probably shop to shop....to get a refund your only option in this case maybe the legal route if Currys are not going to offer you a refund, and then that will also rest with somebody else deciding what is reasonable time.
  • YosemiteYosemite Posts: 6,192
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    eluf38 wrote: »
    It broke in March. I wouldn't have rejected it had it not broken.

    Much as you may wish it were otherwise, the clock doesn't start ticking from the date of a fault occuring - it begins from the date of purchase.

    As has already been explained to you, you may still be able to obtain a full refund, but this isn't an automatic right.
    eluf38 wrote: »
    I would expect a brand new appliance to last several years, not two months.

    And it may last several years after it's been repaired.

    eluf38 wrote: »
    To me, a repaired product is not good enough as it clearly wasn't built to a decent standard in the first place.

    This is pure speculation at this stage.
    eluf38 wrote: »
    ... so we've come to the conclusion that it's a shoddy product and likely to break again as it gets older.

    More speculaton - I suspect that you've come to this conclusion because it suits your preferred course of action, i.e. a full refund.

    Goods come with guarantees for a reason. The reason is that sometimes they break down. It's unreasonable to expect a full refund in every case without giving the supplier an opportunity to repair the item first.
  • Aura101Aura101 Posts: 8,327
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    Curry's are notoriously bad with returns . just email or write to the CEO and I'm pretty certain you will get a refund.
    A friends laptop died after 6 weeks and PC world refused to refund , he emailed the CEO and got a reply and refund within 48 hours .
  • venusinflaresvenusinflares Posts: 4,194
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    They're an awful company.

    They sold us a laptop that was pre infected with all sorts of spyware. When we switched it on, it started installing all sorts of rubbish but when we took it back they accused us of infecting it, saying that because we bought it one day and it was four days before all this stuff was installed, then we'd been using it and it was our fault. We hadn't used it, that happened the first time it was switched on. My husband ran anti virus which picked up 39 Trojans.

    They eventually agreed to exchange it (no refund was offered) but said that unless we bought their 'care plan', they would not exchange the new one if the same thing happened again, and that they were only exchanging it as a 'goodwill gesture'.

    I doubt we'll buy anything from them again.
  • cdtaylor_natscdtaylor_nats Posts: 816
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    The motor failed - with the best will in the world occasionally a component will fail prematurely, your next motor could last for twice its design life. A repair seems quite reasonable, even a replacement but not your money back.
  • toofasttoofast Posts: 2,240
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    eluf38 wrote: »
    We bought a spin dryer from Curry's PC World at the start of January. Because we've had the fire on so much we've dried clothes that way, so have used it fewer than 10 times. It broke at the start of March. It's under a year-long warantee, but the engineer said the motor has gone. Have been waiting all month for it to be repaired.
    My thinking is that if a brand-new appliance can break after so little use, then it is clearly not a quality product and will probably break again. We only have a year's warrantee and don't want to have to pay for repairs. We want to return the dryer and get our money back.
    Today I contacted CPW, only to be told that as it could be repaired they weren't willing to accept returns. If it breaks again, 'we can discuss further options'. To me, this is wrong. Something brand new and hardly used shouldn't have a major mechanical failure so soon after it was bought. If you bought a new pair of shoes and the heel broke, you wouldn't be satisfied with having the heel glued back on, would you?! I think we should be entitled to a refund.
    Do we have any legal right to one, as the goods are faulty?

    This is why I would never by anything from Currys any of their sister stores. They tried it on with me a few years back with a faulty Ipod player which I had for a day!
    They tried some BS about it being a Apple product they would have to send it for repair only - load of of BS. I kicked up a stink in the store and called for the manager who refunded me as a 'gesture of goodwill'!
    Never again.
  • evil cevil c Posts: 7,833
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    Well I'd like to speak in favour of PC World if that's okay. :) I bought a refurb laptop that was faulty (only one hard drive when there shoud have been two). I called them up and after quite a long conversation they agreed to collect the laptop the next day and give me a refund.

    A couple of days later this PC World guy calls me and says PC World are very sorry that the laptop was faulty and they'd like to make it up to me. If I would like to buy any laptop in their range they will give me 10% back after purchase. So that's what happened. I bought another refurb a couple of months later and got 10% back.
  • Chuck WaoChuck Wao Posts: 2,724
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    Just threaten legal action - they ll soon come round:)
  • gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    I know it's a principle, but a standalone spin drier will have cost less than £100, won't it. Not the end of the world .

    however, if repair on a nearly new item is taking so long, then that is unacceptable, and they should definitely offer you refund or replacement.

    I would go in store, and talk to the manager.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    Send an email to a manager asking them to justify the way this has been handled, if that doesn't work then send an email directly to the CEO.
  • MythicaMythica Posts: 3,808
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    Chuck Wao wrote: »
    Just threaten legal action - they ll soon come round:)

    They've done everything by the books. Going in and threatning legal action could likely make you just look stupid and get you no where.
  • MythicaMythica Posts: 3,808
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    Send an email to a manager asking them to justify the way this has been handled, if that doesn't work then send an email directly to the CEO.

    They're repairing a faulty item 3 months after purchase. Why would they need to justify that :confused: I'm all for consumer rights but some people seem to think they can demand anything, gladly the law says otherwise.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
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    I know it's a principle, but a standalone spin drier will have cost less than £100, won't it. Not the end of the world .

    however, if repair on a nearly new item is taking so long, then that is unacceptable, and they should definitely offer you refund or replacement.

    I would go in store, and talk to the manager.

    re: the length of time it's taken for it to be repaired:

    Repair and replacement have to be carried out within a reasonable time scale and without significant inconvenience to the consumer. For example, if you think that four weeks is too long to wait for a repair to your washing machine you can request a replacement immediately. - from a Trading Standards FAQ

    I believe the phrase that pays is "time is of the essence". You put it in writing that you have given them the chance to repair the item but they have failed to do so within a reasonable time. As you need to use the dryer time is of the essence so they must either refund or replace the item immediately.
  • barbelerbarbeler Posts: 23,827
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    From The Guardian - Money:

    "The European Directive 1999/44/EC says all EU countries have to ensure a retailer could be held liable for all "non-conformities" which manifest within two years from delivery.

    However, because the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) meets or exceeds most of the directive's requirements, this overrides the EU directive. The act requires three things: the goods must be as described; they must be of satisfactory quality, which is determined by description, price, durability, freedom from minor defects; and they must be fit for purpose.

    Because manufacturers tend to give one year's warranty on goods, retailers will usually push you in their direction if the product breaks inside the first year.

    However, SOGA provides cover for goods bought for up to six years – in England and Wales. This means if a TV fails after 13 months, you still have rights. Assuming the item has failed through no fault of yours, and it was "reasonable" to expect it to last longer – given its cost/quality – you should demand, under the Sale of Goods Act, that it be replaced or repaired by the retailed, not the manufacturer. Once the item is six months old, the onus is on you, the consumer, to show the item failed as a result of a manufacturing fault."

    You do not have to accept a repair or replacement.
  • GogfumbleGogfumble Posts: 22,155
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    barbeler wrote: »
    From The Guardian - Money:

    "The European Directive 1999/44/EC says all EU countries have to ensure a retailer could be held liable for all "non-conformities" which manifest within two years from delivery.

    However, because the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) meets or exceeds most of the directive's requirements, this overrides the EU directive. The act requires three things: the goods must be as described; they must be of satisfactory quality, which is determined by description, price, durability, freedom from minor defects; and they must be fit for purpose.

    Because manufacturers tend to give one year's warranty on goods, retailers will usually push you in their direction if the product breaks inside the first year.

    However, SOGA provides cover for goods bought for up to six years – in England and Wales. This means if a TV fails after 13 months, you still have rights. Assuming the item has failed through no fault of yours, and it was "reasonable" to expect it to last longer – given its cost/quality – you should demand, under the Sale of Goods Act, that it be replaced or repaired by the retailed, not the manufacturer. Once the item is six months old, the onus is on you, the consumer, to show the item failed as a result of a manufacturing fault."

    You do not have to accept a repair or replacement.

    You seem to have neglected to bold the actual relevant bit:

    "You should demand, under the Sale of Goods Act, that it be replaced or repaired by the retailer, not the manufacturer."
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