I do think it's time to play a more straightforward formation, and settle on a starting line-up for a few games.
There seems little doubt that the centre back pairing should be Woodgate and Corluka (King when available). We have missed Hutton enormously, and I think he will make a big difference when he returns to fitness. Bale obviously at left back, or left midfield if Bentley is playing poorly. Lennon on the left, Bentley on the right of midfield. Zokora is our only defensive midfield player, and is a cert in the centre. The one remaining midfield place should go to either Modric or Jenas, with Bent and one other up front. For me, this has to be Campbell as Pavvy looks too slow for the Premier league. Really, I think that is our best team, with dos Santos coming off the bench as an impact sub. Or playing as a second striker if Campbell is not available.
I don't. The club should at least issue a statement to say it's unacceptable to the club. I suppose they already have and I don't know what else they can do. The Campbell thing was ages ago and we should have got over it. Time to move on to Berba! (joking!).
If people singing songs, is the worst thing that has happened to Campbell in the last 7 years, then he should consider himself pretty lucky.
To be honest, he never enters my thoughts so I dont realy give a toss about him. I only care about Spurs players, which is what the fans on Sunday should have been doing. Forget him, and move on.
Former Tottenham manager Terry Venables has laid the blame for the club's dire start to the season squarely at Dimitar Berbatov's door, bemoaning the Bulgarian's "poisonous presence'' at the beginning of the campaign.
"Berbatov kept telling us he had 'a dream'. Well, good for you Dimi. You had a dream with a few extra noughts added to your bank balance,'' he told The Sun.
"But did Spurs have a dream too? You got your way but your poisonous presence at the start of the season - the brooding and the reluctance to play - has cost the club that believed in you.''
Venables also believes the Spurs board erred in selling Berbatov's strike partner Robbie Keane to Liverpool before they had a replacement.
"They thought they were going to get Andrei Arshavin,'' said Venables.
"This was a massive managerial blunder by Spurs, especially when they had allowed Keane to leave. But letting Berbatov and Keane go without having Arshavin in the bag was a boardroom blunder.''
Im disappointed in Venables. I wish people would stop blaming Berbatov for the state we are in at the moment. The only ones to blame are Ramos, Poyet and the players. Other clubs lose brilliant players all the time and they dont capitulate like we have. Im sick of people hiding behind excuses instead of looking at themselves in the mirror and seeing the real reason why we are crap at the moment.
Im disappointed in Venables. I wish people would stop blaming Berbatov for the state we are in at the moment. The only ones to blame are Ramos, Poyet and the players. Other clubs lose brilliant players all the time and they dont capitulate like we have. Im sick of people hiding behind excuses instead of looking at themselves in the mirror and seeing the real reason why we are crap at the moment.
They are all to blame, and much of the blame surrounds the Berbatov situation.
It was clear a year ago he wanted out. To leave his departure until the last minute was scandalous.
We may have gained a few quid in the bank, but the overall reality shows it was not worth it. He should have gone long ago.
They are all to blame, and much of the blame surrounds the Berbatov situation.
It was clear a year ago he wanted out. To leave his departure until the last minute was scandalous.
We may have gained a few quid in the bank, but the overall reality shows it was not worth it. He should have gone long ago.
Exactly.........but thats not Berbatov's fault, it is Levy and Comolli's. It was insane to wait till 11.59pm on deadline day to sell him for that few extra million. I have been saying since that day that the extra money was pointless as we could'nt spend it.
But that time has gone now, so there is no point in any more excuses..........its not going to change anything. Laurel & Hardy (sorry I mean Ramos & Poyet) seem to be one big excuse after another at the moment.
Both are true. The management should have sold him before and he shouldn't have displayed such an immature attitude. That the management made a hash of it doesn't excuse his petulance.
When we go out of all the cups and are languishing below 13th place or so in the league, then maybe, but I'd quite happily finish 13th in the league and win the UEFA Cup or the FA Cup - heck, even the Carling Cup again!
But I also agree that should Ramos get sacked, Poyet should leave too. He is ultimately part of the failing management team. On another note - rubbish against Pompey. Hope we get a win against Wisla... imagine if we crashed out of the UEFA Cup qualifying rounds :eek:
Your club does not have a God-given right to Champions League football or trophy success. Neither does my club (Arsenal) or any other for that matter.
When Wenger arrived at Arsenal we already had a good side (arguably the best defence in England etc.) so he just needed to tinker a little bit and apply his own methods. Since then he's been given the trust of the board and the fans and has provided us with fantastic success.
Ferguson & Man United in 1986 are probably more comparable to your current situation. Here is his record for the first SEVEN YEARS of his reign:
The only way you'll achieve anything worthwhile is by either creating a stable and solid, good management team (which I think you have at the moment - and also had last year with Martin Jol) and giving them time, or by spending ludicrous amounts of money a la Chelsea.
Instability and inconsistency will bring you nothing but another 40 odd years of looking up the league.
The Spurs board have such a reputation for sacking the manager that I've no doubt your current squad have resigned themselves to this inevitability and are just biding their time.
It seems that Tottenham have everything at their disposal to make them successful except the patience of the fans and the board.
But of course, as an Arsenal fan I hope you do get rid of Ramos and continue this ridiculous circus of changing your manager and half your players every ten minutes.
When we go out of all the cups and are languishing below 13th place or so in the league, then maybe, but I'd quite happily finish 13th in the league and win the UEFA Cup or the FA Cup - heck, even the Carling Cup again!
But I also agree that should Ramos get sacked, Poyet should leave too. He is ultimately part of the failing management team. On another note - rubbish against Pompey. Hope we get a win against Wisla... imagine if we crashed out of the UEFA Cup qualifying rounds :eek:
But of course, as an Arsenal fan I hope you do get rid of Ramos and continue this ridiculous circus of changing your manager and half your players every ten minutes.
And as A Spurs fan I hope you keep Wenger for another 5 years.................as I know he will never win you another league title
I find it hilarious that some Arsenal fans dont even care about winning anymore. Its brilliant
I dont think we're really in a position to mock Arsenal, or their realistic fans such as cosmo.
I fancy their chances of winning something this year, and next are much higher than ours.
Of course I hope they swap laces with us soon.
I think cosmo is correct in what he says about out managerial merry go round. We should have stuck with the one man who has taken us forward, Martin Jol.
I dont think we're really in a position to mock Arsenal, or their realistic fans such as cosmo.
I fancy their chances of winning something this year, and next are much higher than ours.
Of course I hope they swap laces with us soon.
I think cosmo is correct in what he says about out managerial merry go round. We should have stuck with the one man who has taken us forward, Martin Jol.
The difference is that the game has completly changed these days to when Fegie and Wenger took over. Neither of them would get the same time to settle in as they did back then. Wenger has'nt won anything for 4 years - its only his previous record that keeps him in a job.
The management merry go round is'nt something that just we do - its everyone in the premiership. Look at Chelsea who chopped and changed from Hoddle to Gullit to Vialli to Ranieri to Mourinho who got them the league title. There was uproar from the fans when Ranieri left but no one cared when the new man got them the premiership.
It's the same for Spurs, we miss Jol simply because Ramos & Poyet are doing SUCH a bad job. Whats to say that getting a new man in wont bring the success that these muppets cant.
I dont think we're really in a position to mock Arsenal, or their realistic fans such as cosmo.
I fancy their chances of winning something this year, and next are much higher than ours.
Of course I hope they swap laces with us soon.
I think cosmo is correct in what he says about out managerial merry go round. We should have stuck with the one man who has taken us forward, Martin Jol.
I think Ramos will take you forward too given the chance to manage and build his own team DP. That takes more than a year.
It's absolutely imperative that the players believe the manager is there for the long run or they'll just give up and wait for the next one.
Who would be afraid of a boss or put any effort or belief into their tactics if you thought their card was marked?
The Spurs board and their jerky knees have a lot to answer for with regard to your current situation.
Whats to say that getting a new man in wont bring the success that these muppets cant.
This is it - sacking Ramos will likely create more problems than it solves.
Another way to look at it, playing devil's advocate, is that do we sack so many managers due to the fans ?
a lot of spurs fans apparently "demand" that the football be played "the tottenham way", and that we get results and success now, rather than building to it.
so have we gotten shot of managers in the past for that reason alone?
we, as a club, do seem to give managers a lot less time than most to get things going.
with the success ramos has had in europe, he's not going to suddenly turn into a bad coach just because he's been managing us for a year is he ?.
with the success ramos has had in europe, he's not going to suddenly turn into a bad coach just because he's been managing us for a year is he ?.
Why not ? Great managers, just like great players, can all fail when they go to a new country and a new club. It happens all the time. His whole managment career has been in Spain, he has lived there all his life. Just because you succeed in one country does'nt automatically mean you will do it in a new one.
The truth is that there is simply no defense for Ramos. He is responsible for our worst start for 50 years, he is responsible for us winning only 3 times in 18 games which is pure relegation form, he is repsonsible for making a team filled with quality internationals look like sunday league level players, and he is responsible for not improving one single thing in a whole year of management.................and instead he has taken us backwards.
If there was one tiny single shread of light in seeing what Ramos was looking to build and achieve then I would say give him more time................If he was building from the back due to our lack of strikers, at least we could see his plan and vision...................but there is simply nothing at all in any area of the pitch from top to bottom of the team. There is nothing anywhere at all. We are going backwards in every game under him.
Comments
Do you think it's acceptable behaviour?
The chant involving "because we've got Ledley at the back", and one liners like "you're only here for the sailors" are fine
It's the one to the tune of the Lord of the Dance that goes far too far and causes the troubles - a few got ejected from the ground on Sunday for it
That sounds like a good plan to me.
I don't. The club should at least issue a statement to say it's unacceptable to the club. I suppose they already have and I don't know what else they can do. The Campbell thing was ages ago and we should have got over it. Time to move on to Berba! (joking!).
If people singing songs, is the worst thing that has happened to Campbell in the last 7 years, then he should consider himself pretty lucky.
To be honest, he never enters my thoughts so I dont realy give a toss about him. I only care about Spurs players, which is what the fans on Sunday should have been doing. Forget him, and move on.
Amen sister.
He's under pressure at Bayern after poor results, like Ramos is here.
They are all to blame, and much of the blame surrounds the Berbatov situation.
It was clear a year ago he wanted out. To leave his departure until the last minute was scandalous.
We may have gained a few quid in the bank, but the overall reality shows it was not worth it. He should have gone long ago.
Exactly.........but thats not Berbatov's fault, it is Levy and Comolli's. It was insane to wait till 11.59pm on deadline day to sell him for that few extra million. I have been saying since that day that the extra money was pointless as we could'nt spend it.
But that time has gone now, so there is no point in any more excuses..........its not going to change anything. Laurel & Hardy (sorry I mean Ramos & Poyet) seem to be one big excuse after another at the moment.
When we go out of all the cups and are languishing below 13th place or so in the league, then maybe, but I'd quite happily finish 13th in the league and win the UEFA Cup or the FA Cup - heck, even the Carling Cup again!
But I also agree that should Ramos get sacked, Poyet should leave too. He is ultimately part of the failing management team. On another note - rubbish against Pompey. Hope we get a win against Wisla... imagine if we crashed out of the UEFA Cup qualifying rounds :eek:
When Wenger arrived at Arsenal we already had a good side (arguably the best defence in England etc.) so he just needed to tinker a little bit and apply his own methods. Since then he's been given the trust of the board and the fans and has provided us with fantastic success.
Ferguson & Man United in 1986 are probably more comparable to your current situation. Here is his record for the first SEVEN YEARS of his reign:
1986/87 - 11th
1987/88 - 2nd
1988/89 - 11th
1989/90 - 13th
1990/91 - 6th
1991/92 - 2nd
1992/93 - 1st
The only way you'll achieve anything worthwhile is by either creating a stable and solid, good management team (which I think you have at the moment - and also had last year with Martin Jol) and giving them time, or by spending ludicrous amounts of money a la Chelsea.
Instability and inconsistency will bring you nothing but another 40 odd years of looking up the league.
The Spurs board have such a reputation for sacking the manager that I've no doubt your current squad have resigned themselves to this inevitability and are just biding their time.
It seems that Tottenham have everything at their disposal to make them successful except the patience of the fans and the board.
But of course, as an Arsenal fan I hope you do get rid of Ramos and continue this ridiculous circus of changing your manager and half your players every ten minutes.
Being a bit negative, I can imagine it!
And as A Spurs fan I hope you keep Wenger for another 5 years.................as I know he will never win you another league title
Que Sera, Sera.....
I find it hilarious that some Arsenal fans dont even care about winning anymore. Its brilliant
I dont think we're really in a position to mock Arsenal, or their realistic fans such as cosmo.
I fancy their chances of winning something this year, and next are much higher than ours.
Of course I hope they swap laces with us soon.
I think cosmo is correct in what he says about out managerial merry go round. We should have stuck with the one man who has taken us forward, Martin Jol.
The difference is that the game has completly changed these days to when Fegie and Wenger took over. Neither of them would get the same time to settle in as they did back then. Wenger has'nt won anything for 4 years - its only his previous record that keeps him in a job.
The management merry go round is'nt something that just we do - its everyone in the premiership. Look at Chelsea who chopped and changed from Hoddle to Gullit to Vialli to Ranieri to Mourinho who got them the league title. There was uproar from the fans when Ranieri left but no one cared when the new man got them the premiership.
It's the same for Spurs, we miss Jol simply because Ramos & Poyet are doing SUCH a bad job. Whats to say that getting a new man in wont bring the success that these muppets cant.
I think Ramos will take you forward too given the chance to manage and build his own team DP. That takes more than a year.
It's absolutely imperative that the players believe the manager is there for the long run or they'll just give up and wait for the next one.
Who would be afraid of a boss or put any effort or belief into their tactics if you thought their card was marked?
The Spurs board and their jerky knees have a lot to answer for with regard to your current situation.
This is it - sacking Ramos will likely create more problems than it solves.
Another way to look at it, playing devil's advocate, is that do we sack so many managers due to the fans ?
a lot of spurs fans apparently "demand" that the football be played "the tottenham way", and that we get results and success now, rather than building to it.
so have we gotten shot of managers in the past for that reason alone?
we, as a club, do seem to give managers a lot less time than most to get things going.
with the success ramos has had in europe, he's not going to suddenly turn into a bad coach just because he's been managing us for a year is he ?.
Why not ? Great managers, just like great players, can all fail when they go to a new country and a new club. It happens all the time. His whole managment career has been in Spain, he has lived there all his life. Just because you succeed in one country does'nt automatically mean you will do it in a new one.
The truth is that there is simply no defense for Ramos. He is responsible for our worst start for 50 years, he is responsible for us winning only 3 times in 18 games which is pure relegation form, he is repsonsible for making a team filled with quality internationals look like sunday league level players, and he is responsible for not improving one single thing in a whole year of management.................and instead he has taken us backwards.
If there was one tiny single shread of light in seeing what Ramos was looking to build and achieve then I would say give him more time................If he was building from the back due to our lack of strikers, at least we could see his plan and vision...................but there is simply nothing at all in any area of the pitch from top to bottom of the team. There is nothing anywhere at all. We are going backwards in every game under him.