Good luck with trying to see a band like muse in a small venue, those days are long gone.
I think he's referring to the theatrics used in larger shows that small shows usually don't have. there was literally a band recently who had some kind of flying object like a spaceship during a show, that flew around the venue. it may have been muse
and muse have done small venue shows fairly recently, such as the electric ballroom in Camden last September, radiohead did 3 nights at the roundhouse this year, prince played the roundhouse just a couple of years ago, along with many other small venue shows, as small as Ronnie scotts and café de paris and also played the electric ballroom a couple of nights in a row. it's not very often this happens but more bands and artists are doing the special small venue tours as warm ups or promotion. weller did it last year for example
Arena sized gigs have gone up disproportionately over the last 10 years. If I go to see a band in a small venue in Bristol or Cardiff I would expect to pay in the region of £10 - £20, but go to see a band in the Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff and it is rare to pay less than £50 now.
However I certainly wouldn't by merch from an Academy-sized venue or above these days as that is a rip-off because of the markup a lot of venues have introduced for their cut. I would rather buy directly from the band themselves.
are you talking like for like though? are you actually seeing the same band play a small venue for £10-20 and shortly after pay to see the same act in an arena for £50, and then later see them in a smaller venue for a lower price? or are you talking about less established bands with a smaller following charging less in a small venue than a more established band with a larger following playing a big venue, as that's not really like for like. it's common you will see a band one year play theatres and the next year play arenas for example, because their popularity has increased, but rarely a band will move down venue sizes and charge less, unless popularity has declined
most of the arena shows I've been to in the last few years cost more than £50 a ticket, a lot more, closer to £100. I've also paid a lot more than that for theatre size shows, and much more for a small venue show for an established artist
The question from the OP was "large or small gigs?", I took a response of "it depends on the band" to imply that there are some bands that you'd rather see in a big venue than a small venue. That just simply isn't the case for me, I know it's subjective but I can't get my head around why anyone would choose to see Muse (as an example) in a big stadium as opposed to an Academy. Yes, there might be a great light show and fireworks etc but that can't beat being right in front of a stage just watching a band.I know there's no chance of seeing Muse at an Academy, I was just using them as an example.
You do get the occasional big bands playing smaller warm up gigs though. I saw Kasabian play an Academy as a warm up for an Arena tour they were doing. I'd never go and see them at a big gig but the small gig was amazing. The same with The Libertines last year, I avoided the Arena shows but saw them at Rock City and that was brilliant.
As I've said, I have enjoyed most of the big gigs I've been to, some have been fantastic but every single one I've left thinking "That'd have been so much better in a small venue".
I didn't literally mean every big gig has a space rocket, I was just using it as an example of big props and that kind of thing!
if you are front row, and not being squashed and relatively comfortable at least, you can forget there can be 50,000 people behind you when the gig is going, but even front row at those large gigs, the atmosphere and performance isn't the same as being in a club show, especially not front row, but even at the back of a club show the atmosphere can be fantastic
if you are front row, and not being squashed and relatively comfortable at least, you can forget there can be 50,000 people behind you when the gig is going, but even front row at those large gigs, the atmosphere and performance isn't the same as being in a club show, especially not front row, but even at the back of a club show the atmosphere can be fantastic
Exactly, even if you get there late and end up at the back you still have a good view and don't need binoculars or a screen. I rarely go right on the barrier but go a couple of people back and slightly to one side. You always get a great view and you don't tend to get shoved around and stuff. Earlier this year I saw Spector in a very small venue, I managed to get a spot where I was about 2m from the stage and stood at the bar! That was great!
I think he's referring to the theatrics used in larger shows that small shows usually don't have. there was literally a band recently who had some kind of flying object like a spaceship during a show, that flew around the venue. it may have been muse
and muse have done small venue shows fairly recently, such as the electric ballroom in Camden last September, radiohead did 3 nights at the roundhouse this year, prince played the roundhouse just a couple of years ago, along with many other small venue shows, as small as Ronnie scotts and café de paris and also played the electric ballroom a couple of nights in a row. it's not very often this happens but more bands and artists are doing the special small venue tours as warm ups or promotion. weller did it last year for example
You are right, "large" bands to sometimes do small gigs but it is the exception and when they do it is always very difficult to get tickets. Plus, usually, those small gigs are almost always in London, which makes it expensive for most people even if they do manage to get a ticket.
are you talking like for like though? are you actually seeing the same band play a small venue for £10-20 and shortly after pay to see the same act in an arena for £50, and then later see them in a smaller venue for a lower price? or are you talking about less established bands with a smaller following charging less in a small venue than a more established band with a larger following playing a big venue, as that's not really like for like. it's common you will see a band one year play theatres and the next year play arenas for example, because their popularity has increased, but rarely a band will move down venue sizes and charge less, unless popularity has declined
most of the arena shows I've been to in the last few years cost more than £50 a ticket, a lot more, closer to £100. I've also paid a lot more than that for theatre size shows, and much more for a small venue show for an established artist
No, I was talking about economies of scale, or usually the lack of when it comes to music.
Say a band played a venue and the ticket price was £20. If they played an arena with exactly the same show, although with a larger PA to take in to account the difference in size, even with all of extra costs involved it would be very rare for the ticket price to the punter is under £20, it would be more like double.
The only time I have seen it work in favour of the punter was when Roger Waters performed The Wall.
Tickets for the O2 shows were @ £100+, whereas at Wembley Stadium tickets were @ £65, but it rarely works out that way.
No, I was talking about economies of scale, or usually the lack of when it comes to music.
Say a band played a venue and the ticket price was £20. If they played an arena with exactly the same show, although with a larger PA to take in to account the difference in size, even with all of extra costs involved it would be very rare for the ticket price to the punter is under £20, it would be more like double.
The only time I have seen it work in favour of the punter was when Roger Waters performed The Wall.
Tickets for the O2 shows were @ £100+, whereas at Wembley Stadium tickets were @ £65, but it rarely works out that way.
you don't get too many situations where an artist will play such variations of size of venue in the same country to be able to compare like for like ticket prices. it's usually a case of the artist tours one year in say 1,000 capacity venues, then the following year it's maybe theatres of 4,000 capacity, then arenas, then stadiums if they make it big enough, but that's based on popularity increasing over the periods which means the bands manager negotiates larger fees with the promoter, so everything in turn increases. band cost is higher, venue cost is higher, PA and lights etc higher, staffing/security/etc higher, and advertising/promotion is usually higher as a larger budget is used to ensure they sell out. the economy of scale doesn't tend to come into things the same way for gigs for established artists as it does for say manufacturing which has initial startup costs and then subsequent costs per piece. with gigs, it's seen as if someone is doing a bigger gig, each key person wants a bigger slice of the pie
some artists work in different ways of course so there are exceptions to the rule. roger waters must have more money than he can ever spend, but then if he puts on an expensive show he can waste money easily. david Gilmour could have played arenas for his last tour instead of the royal albert hall, and could have even done a night at Wembley stadium, but for whatever reason his solo shows have usually been in smaller venues that are nicer and more comfortable and with better sound, so maybe to him it's not so much about playing a horrible metal barn for piles of cash but doing something more personally preferable. but few artists have the pleasure of taking those options. that bloody £400 Floyd box set is probably paying for the tour
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I think he's referring to the theatrics used in larger shows that small shows usually don't have. there was literally a band recently who had some kind of flying object like a spaceship during a show, that flew around the venue. it may have been muse
and muse have done small venue shows fairly recently, such as the electric ballroom in Camden last September, radiohead did 3 nights at the roundhouse this year, prince played the roundhouse just a couple of years ago, along with many other small venue shows, as small as Ronnie scotts and café de paris and also played the electric ballroom a couple of nights in a row. it's not very often this happens but more bands and artists are doing the special small venue tours as warm ups or promotion. weller did it last year for example
are you talking like for like though? are you actually seeing the same band play a small venue for £10-20 and shortly after pay to see the same act in an arena for £50, and then later see them in a smaller venue for a lower price? or are you talking about less established bands with a smaller following charging less in a small venue than a more established band with a larger following playing a big venue, as that's not really like for like. it's common you will see a band one year play theatres and the next year play arenas for example, because their popularity has increased, but rarely a band will move down venue sizes and charge less, unless popularity has declined
most of the arena shows I've been to in the last few years cost more than £50 a ticket, a lot more, closer to £100. I've also paid a lot more than that for theatre size shows, and much more for a small venue show for an established artist
if you are front row, and not being squashed and relatively comfortable at least, you can forget there can be 50,000 people behind you when the gig is going, but even front row at those large gigs, the atmosphere and performance isn't the same as being in a club show, especially not front row, but even at the back of a club show the atmosphere can be fantastic
Exactly, even if you get there late and end up at the back you still have a good view and don't need binoculars or a screen. I rarely go right on the barrier but go a couple of people back and slightly to one side. You always get a great view and you don't tend to get shoved around and stuff. Earlier this year I saw Spector in a very small venue, I managed to get a spot where I was about 2m from the stage and stood at the bar! That was great!
You are right, "large" bands to sometimes do small gigs but it is the exception and when they do it is always very difficult to get tickets. Plus, usually, those small gigs are almost always in London, which makes it expensive for most people even if they do manage to get a ticket.
No, I was talking about economies of scale, or usually the lack of when it comes to music.
Say a band played a venue and the ticket price was £20. If they played an arena with exactly the same show, although with a larger PA to take in to account the difference in size, even with all of extra costs involved it would be very rare for the ticket price to the punter is under £20, it would be more like double.
The only time I have seen it work in favour of the punter was when Roger Waters performed The Wall.
Tickets for the O2 shows were @ £100+, whereas at Wembley Stadium tickets were @ £65, but it rarely works out that way.
you don't get too many situations where an artist will play such variations of size of venue in the same country to be able to compare like for like ticket prices. it's usually a case of the artist tours one year in say 1,000 capacity venues, then the following year it's maybe theatres of 4,000 capacity, then arenas, then stadiums if they make it big enough, but that's based on popularity increasing over the periods which means the bands manager negotiates larger fees with the promoter, so everything in turn increases. band cost is higher, venue cost is higher, PA and lights etc higher, staffing/security/etc higher, and advertising/promotion is usually higher as a larger budget is used to ensure they sell out. the economy of scale doesn't tend to come into things the same way for gigs for established artists as it does for say manufacturing which has initial startup costs and then subsequent costs per piece. with gigs, it's seen as if someone is doing a bigger gig, each key person wants a bigger slice of the pie
some artists work in different ways of course so there are exceptions to the rule. roger waters must have more money than he can ever spend, but then if he puts on an expensive show he can waste money easily. david Gilmour could have played arenas for his last tour instead of the royal albert hall, and could have even done a night at Wembley stadium, but for whatever reason his solo shows have usually been in smaller venues that are nicer and more comfortable and with better sound, so maybe to him it's not so much about playing a horrible metal barn for piles of cash but doing something more personally preferable. but few artists have the pleasure of taking those options. that bloody £400 Floyd box set is probably paying for the tour