I already said in #313 that I'm not going to argue the positives or negatives of migration.
And I don't need to explain anything about "mass immigration from Romania and Bulgaria", since I do not believe it will happen.
If you'd bothered to read either of my posts properly, you'd already know this, and not bother me with stupid questions.
I don't read all your posts because you never give a proper answer. 'i do not believe it will happen' well everyone should be ok then, just like when Poland joined. As long as you don't think it will happen the economy, jobs, housing and NHS will all be fine. Get real. Next year we will see who is right and I am 100% certain there will be at least 250,000 in the first year. We will have to wait and see
Thanks. That sounds like exactly what I'm after. Where can I find them?
Perhaps more useful is this link from the University of Oxford, which alludes to the importance of understanding survey results and appreciating the context within which they have been gathered. The blue box below the headline observations is particularly important in this regard.
This might suggest that, whilst it is reasonable to observe that some people have expressed some concerns about some aspects of immigration in surveys (and I haven't seen any denials on here that they have, contrary to accusations) that does not mean that this is sufficient evidence for the contention that "the vast majority" (however that might be defined) "have had enough of mass immigration" (however that might be defined).
I'm well aware that this will go over some heads and that it will probably still provoke responses suggesting that some of us are in denial rather than wanting to get at some reasonable interpretation of the evidence, but hey ho.
I don't read all your posts because you never give a proper answer.
Oh, get over yourself. Just because you don't like my answers doesn't mean they're not 'proper'. I am not obligated to you in any way, shape or form. If you don't like my responses then to be frank, that's your problem not mine. I do not post for your benefit.
'i do not believe it will happen' well everyone should be ok then, just like when Poland joined.
The situation isn't the same as when Poland joined. The populations involved are much smaller, and this time every other member state will be relaxing transitional controls at the same time, as opposed to 2004 when the UK, Ireland and Sweden were the only three states not to impose any.
As long as you don't think it will happen the economy, jobs, housing and NHS will all be fine. Get real. Next year we will see who is right and I am 100% certain there will be at least 250,000 in the first year. We will have to wait and see
I don't care what you are 100% certain of. I wouldn't trust you to cross the road unaided. Your figure is five times even MigrationWatch's estimate - can you back up your "100% certainty" with any data or rationale at all?
I don't read all your posts because you never give a proper answer. 'i do not believe it will happen' well everyone should be ok then, just like when Poland joined. As long as you don't think it will happen the economy, jobs, housing and NHS will all be fine. Get real. Next year we will see who is right and I am 100% certain there will be at least 250,000 in the first year. We will have to wait and see
So, your thread title was "Millions to flood Britain in 2014" and now you say it's only 250,000. Where did you pick this number from or is it another of your rabble rousing inventions?
You also implied in you OP that half of the Romainian population would be coming here "54% of Romainians would rather come to Britain than stay in their impoverished country". Do you still stand behind this absurd assertion?
Where did you pick this number from or is it another of your rabble rousing inventions?
I'd like to know this too. It's also interesting how "millions" has now become "a quarter of a million".
It does seem to me lately that these threads follow a familiar pattern.
1. OP makes a completely overblown, ludicrous claim on a subject.
2. People join thread to debunk or cast doubt on ludicrous claim.
3. Goalposts get hastily moved, straw man arguments erected, etc. in a desperate attempt to shift the focus of discussion and make the people who disagree with the OP look unreasonable. Useful idiots or fellow-travellers are recruited to provide covering fire for the OP. If successful, the original subject of the thread is lost entirely.
Who commissioned it is irrelevant - as the pollsters staff did not say who commissioned/paid for it when polling. I doubt anyone would have heard of that organisation anyway
It is good practice to advise respondents of the organisation behind the study, so that they can consider whether there is the possibility of confirmation bias (as wazzy mentioned).
I'd be more interested to know the results of this survey if it would have been commissioned, let alone published, by someone with no particular axe to grind either way.
♫ Don't ask any more stupid questions, you already know the answers... ♫
No-one has given reasons because no-one is under any obligation to provide any. Furthermore, unless you address your post at someone specifically, no-one is likely to do so either. And since "uncontrolled mass immigration" is a scare story, an assertion from the likes of the Express (a rag I would not even keep in an outhouse) without adequate data to back it up, there seems little need to do so.
One wonders if those who trust the Daily Express on such matters still believe the lie which ws so often implied by that rag - before the libel lawyers knocked on their door - that Madeleine McCann was murdered by her own parents?
I did not say there would be another Cold War. But what's laughable is your naivety... the USSR has ended, you say? Have you looked at what's been happening in the Russian Federation lately? And as for spy movies, how swiftly we forget...
Cameron to M " Since we restricted Romanian and Bulgarian access,the Russians have brought back the tall hats and the poison umbrellas"
M - "Get me commander Bond".
James Bond is in Monte Carlo,naked in bed with a Bulgarian beauty queen who is also a spy.
Perhaps more useful is this link from the University of Oxford, which alludes to the importance of understanding survey results and appreciating the context within which they have been gathered. The blue box below the headline observations is particularly important in this regard.
This might suggest that, whilst it is reasonable to observe that some people have expressed some concerns about some aspects of immigration in surveys (and I haven't seen any denials on here that they have, contrary to accusations) that does not mean that this is sufficient evidence for the contention that "the vast majority" (however that might be defined) "have had enough of mass immigration" (however that might be defined).
I'm well aware that this will go over some heads and that it will probably still provoke responses suggesting that some of us are in denial rather than wanting to get at some reasonable interpretation of the evidence, but hey ho.
Thanks. That sounds like exactly what I'm after. Where can I find them?
Any manifesto of a party that formed a Government, here is Labour's from 2005
We will ensure that only skilled workers are allowed to settle long-term
in the UK, with English language tests for everyone who wants to stay
permanently and an end to chain migration.
Britain has reached a turning-point. That is why a Conservative
Government will bring immigration back under control. We have set
out a series of practical and considered steps to restore control
and fairness to our immigration system.
That accounts for the overwhelming majority of voters. As I said the GE is the only poll that really counts and it is clear what the parties stated they would do and that the electorate voted for them.
Mickmars lives on a COUNCIL estate in EAST LONDON, he doesn't need anything as earthy as EVIDENCE to prove his theories, he just needs to look outside his front door to see the hordes of swan eating Muslim-Polish asylum seekers littering the streets and selling our kids crack, whilst demanding 12 bedroom gold leaf encrusted council houses recently forcibly vacated by our elderly parents.
Realistically no-one knows for certain if the Sun will explode tomorrow. That's why we don't deal in certainties. The point is that if you're coming up with higher estimates than the occasionally-hyperactive canary in the mine that is MigrationWatch, you very likely need to go back and recheck your estimates.
Spare me the drawn-out ill-fitting analogies. There's one major problem with yours, as follows. How many of those "shops who lock their doors and open only by request" are big multinational chains that make billions?
I will spare you nothing, it is your decision to reply. The thing is most of the shoppers are already here and quite a few that are here cannot get served. We currently have no shortage of shoppers, we do however have a significant shortage of goods in the form of jobs available. It may become like a January sale.
Mickmars lives on a COUNCIL estate in EAST LONDON, he doesn't need anything as earthy as EVIDENCE to prove his theories, he just needs to look outside his front door to see the hordes of swan eating Muslim-Polish asylum seekers littering the streets and selling our kids crack, whilst demanding 12 bedroom gold leaf encrusted council houses recently forcibly vacated by our elderly parents.
Actually MickMars escaped from that East London council estate in 1988,but he still has friends that live there who he visits.
That once reasonable East London council state is now housing people from all over the planet,never could quite figure out how that came about.
How are things in 92% white British Stevenage this week ? :rolleyes:
Finally Mickmars speaking some sense, if the government do not step up and sort it out there will be big changes in the UK forced upon the government because the British people can only take so much, the government is meant to be looking after British people and their interests but all they do is look after EU migrants, Indian students and African asylum seekers. Its time for Britons to take Britain back
If they flood in during 2014 then Cameron is ****ed at the 2015 election and UKIP will be hoovering up Tory votes all over the place.
As for Labour, I just hope Jon Cruddas who is currently doing the policy review and I think fully understands the dire situation regarding immigration and housing persuades Ed M to get radical in their next manifesto. Immigrants should have to pay tax for 10 years to have access to social housing imo.
Without an option to leave the EU it looks toothless though. Labour really need to match Cameron's in/out referendum pledge to regain credibility in this area imo. The UK needs to regain full control of its borders.
Actually MickMars escaped from that East London council estate in 1988,but he still has friends that live there who he visits.
That once reasonable East London council state is now housing people from all over the planet,never could quite figure out how that came about.
How are things in 92% white British Stevenage this week ? :rolleyes:
Oh, but how awful, people from OTHER COUNTRIES living in our midst.
Whereas, of course Mickmars I *do* live on a Council Estate in Stevenage - an area that the local estate agents won't name because of the negative connotations - and it is considerably more diverse than Stevenage - which, as you haven't bothered to check the 2011 Census, and just extracted the Wikipedia figure from 8 years ago - great research skills, right there, Mickmars - and where I live is 26.9% non-white and Stevenage is 16.1% overall.
But hey, why should I do research, surely I should just go outside and stand there, like you do ?
I will spare you nothing, it is your decision to reply.
:rolleyes:
The thing is most of the shoppers are already here and quite a few that are here cannot get served. We currently have no shortage of shoppers, we do however have a significant shortage of goods in the form of jobs available. It may become like a January sale.
Why would it become that if there were a shortage of goods?
Which still doesn't grant you any powers of clairvoyance.
Ah, so not just the EU then. Sounds like your issues are wider than EU migration. Now we start to get to the truth.
Why do you bring up "white"? We were talking about EU migration.
Apparently because I live in a whiter area than he does, I'm not allowed to comment. The fact I lived in Waltham Forest for 20 years prior to this, is apparently also irrelevant.
Unlimited numbers of other people. The entire population of France, Germany and Poland could move here tomorrow.
But they clearly don't, do they? Why is that?
Do you think that's sensible?
I don't think it's any more likely than the entire population of London descending on Bristol. I do not judge what is "sensible" based on extreme outlier scenarios.
Comments
I don't read all your posts because you never give a proper answer. 'i do not believe it will happen' well everyone should be ok then, just like when Poland joined. As long as you don't think it will happen the economy, jobs, housing and NHS will all be fine. Get real. Next year we will see who is right and I am 100% certain there will be at least 250,000 in the first year. We will have to wait and see
Perhaps more useful is this link from the University of Oxford, which alludes to the importance of understanding survey results and appreciating the context within which they have been gathered. The blue box below the headline observations is particularly important in this regard.
This might suggest that, whilst it is reasonable to observe that some people have expressed some concerns about some aspects of immigration in surveys (and I haven't seen any denials on here that they have, contrary to accusations) that does not mean that this is sufficient evidence for the contention that "the vast majority" (however that might be defined) "have had enough of mass immigration" (however that might be defined).
http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern
I'm well aware that this will go over some heads and that it will probably still provoke responses suggesting that some of us are in denial rather than wanting to get at some reasonable interpretation of the evidence, but hey ho.
Oh, get over yourself. Just because you don't like my answers doesn't mean they're not 'proper'. I am not obligated to you in any way, shape or form. If you don't like my responses then to be frank, that's your problem not mine. I do not post for your benefit.
The situation isn't the same as when Poland joined. The populations involved are much smaller, and this time every other member state will be relaxing transitional controls at the same time, as opposed to 2004 when the UK, Ireland and Sweden were the only three states not to impose any.
I don't care what you are 100% certain of. I wouldn't trust you to cross the road unaided. Your figure is five times even MigrationWatch's estimate - can you back up your "100% certainty" with any data or rationale at all?
So, your thread title was "Millions to flood Britain in 2014" and now you say it's only 250,000. Where did you pick this number from or is it another of your rabble rousing inventions?
You also implied in you OP that half of the Romainian population would be coming here "54% of Romainians would rather come to Britain than stay in their impoverished country". Do you still stand behind this absurd assertion?
I'd like to know this too. It's also interesting how "millions" has now become "a quarter of a million".
It does seem to me lately that these threads follow a familiar pattern.
1. OP makes a completely overblown, ludicrous claim on a subject.
2. People join thread to debunk or cast doubt on ludicrous claim.
3. Goalposts get hastily moved, straw man arguments erected, etc. in a desperate attempt to shift the focus of discussion and make the people who disagree with the OP look unreasonable. Useful idiots or fellow-travellers are recruited to provide covering fire for the OP. If successful, the original subject of the thread is lost entirely.
Rinse, wash, repeat ad nauseam.
It is good practice to advise respondents of the organisation behind the study, so that they can consider whether there is the possibility of confirmation bias (as wazzy mentioned).
I'd be more interested to know the results of this survey if it would have been commissioned, let alone published, by someone with no particular axe to grind either way.
Cameron to M " Since we restricted Romanian and Bulgarian access,the Russians have brought back the tall hats and the poison umbrellas"
M - "Get me commander Bond".
James Bond is in Monte Carlo,naked in bed with a Bulgarian beauty queen who is also a spy.
cut to theme song
FROM ROMA,WITH LOVE....
Wilfully missing the point as ever.
Any manifesto of a party that formed a Government, here is Labour's from 2005
We will ensure that only skilled workers are allowed to settle long-term
in the UK, with English language tests for everyone who wants to stay
permanently and an end to chain migration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/13_04_05_labour_manifesto.pdf
Here is the Tory one from the same year
Britain has reached a turning-point. That is why a Conservative
Government will bring immigration back under control. We have set
out a series of practical and considered steps to restore control
and fairness to our immigration system.
http://www.conservatives.com/pdf/manifesto-uk-2005.pdf
That accounts for the overwhelming majority of voters. As I said the GE is the only poll that really counts and it is clear what the parties stated they would do and that the electorate voted for them.
Mickmars lives on a COUNCIL estate in EAST LONDON, he doesn't need anything as earthy as EVIDENCE to prove his theories, he just needs to look outside his front door to see the hordes of swan eating Muslim-Polish asylum seekers littering the streets and selling our kids crack, whilst demanding 12 bedroom gold leaf encrusted council houses recently forcibly vacated by our elderly parents.
I will spare you nothing, it is your decision to reply. The thing is most of the shoppers are already here and quite a few that are here cannot get served. We currently have no shortage of shoppers, we do however have a significant shortage of goods in the form of jobs available. It may become like a January sale.
Actually MickMars escaped from that East London council estate in 1988,but he still has friends that live there who he visits.
That once reasonable East London council state is now housing people from all over the planet,never could quite figure out how that came about.
How are things in 92% white British Stevenage this week ? :rolleyes:
So it now appears the government do have an estimate they just aren't going to release. What a good transparent government we have
As for Labour, I just hope Jon Cruddas who is currently doing the policy review and I think fully understands the dire situation regarding immigration and housing persuades Ed M to get radical in their next manifesto. Immigrants should have to pay tax for 10 years to have access to social housing imo.
Without an option to leave the EU it looks toothless though. Labour really need to match Cameron's in/out referendum pledge to regain credibility in this area imo. The UK needs to regain full control of its borders.
Which still doesn't grant you any powers of clairvoyance.
Ah, so not just the EU then. Sounds like your issues are wider than EU migration. Now we start to get to the truth.
Why do you bring up "white"? We were talking about EU migration.
Oh, but how awful, people from OTHER COUNTRIES living in our midst.
Whereas, of course Mickmars I *do* live on a Council Estate in Stevenage - an area that the local estate agents won't name because of the negative connotations - and it is considerably more diverse than Stevenage - which, as you haven't bothered to check the 2011 Census, and just extracted the Wikipedia figure from 8 years ago - great research skills, right there, Mickmars - and where I live is 26.9% non-white and Stevenage is 16.1% overall.
But hey, why should I do research, surely I should just go outside and stand there, like you do ?
:rolleyes:
Why would it become that if there were a shortage of goods?
Unlimited numbers of other people. The entire population of France, Germany and Poland could move here tomorrow.
Do you think that's sensible?
Chaos.
Why would they ?
It's as likely as the entire British population moving to the Costas, tomorrow. Actually, the latter is a LOT more likely than the former.
But they clearly don't, do they? Why is that?
I don't think it's any more likely than the entire population of London descending on Bristol. I do not judge what is "sensible" based on extreme outlier scenarios.