Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 7)

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  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    McLaren should have had a 1-2 and it may cost them in the constructor's championship. It didn't matter in the end but I think Vettel's drive through penalty was harsh. As for Italian fans they are notorious for being very partisan and bad losers if the prancing horse doesn't win.
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    I didn't see Hamilton booing anybody.

    *EDIT*

    maybe worth saying, if I'd said that Alonso talking during the national anthem was naughty but ignored Hamilton, you might have a point.

    As it is, I'm simply not bothered about drivers talking whereas a crowd booing DOES bother me.



    It isn't "avoiding the actual point" to hold a different opinion to you, you know. :rolleyes:

    As I said, I think what Massa did WAS rather petty and childish simply because of the way he made a snidey comment and then scuttled off.

    If he'd walked up to Hamilton, even in the middle of a TV interview, and said "You and me need to have a chat, right now" then stood his ground and waited for Hamilton to reply then I've had more respect for his actions.

    If you don't agree, that's your prerogative but it DOESN'T mean I'm avoiding any issue.

    I didnt say Lewis was booing, I said he was talking...you really should learn to comprehend what other people post. :D Talking during the national anthem is out of order, as is booing. Remember Schumi used to 'conduct' as the Italian anthem was played. He got into a bit of hot water over that, so stopped doing it. Martin during his pitwalk, stopped, and said the Italian national anthem was about to be played. Usain bolt and the Jamaican team stopped interviews, when a national anthem was being played in the background. The fuss that has been caused at football matches when fans have booed the national anthems. I could go on, talking/booing etc whilst an anthem is being played is out of order.

    If Hamilton had to balls to talk to Massa, when Massa approached him, Massa would not need to embarrass Hamilton on tv. What was the point of Massa standing his ground? Hamilton already said he didnt want to talk about it. Hamilton would have just turned his back and ignored Massa.
    Aah yes....., Ferrari International Assistance strikes again! :mad:

    You and R410 both make me laugh. If you knew anything about the incident and the rules, then you would realise that Vettel did push Alonso wide (and I am a Vettel fan). Vettel moved across, forcing Alonso of the track. This year there is a new rule, where you have to leave at least a cars width for the other car. Sky analysed both incidents. They showed that Alonso left enough room for Vettel, but Vettel ran wide. This was even though the rule (mentioned above) was not in force. Hence Alonso didnt have to leave room, but he did. Under this new rule, Alonso would not have got punished as he left room.
    R410 wrote: »
    This pretty much sums up my dislike for Ferrari too.

    Nationality of the teams don't matter to me. I have been a life long supporter of McLaren, but have followed Caterham since they joined F1 back in 2010, even if it is a Malaysian team.


    Nah. Hamilton would not go to Fernarri. No driver who wants to win will. Going to Ferrari would mean forfeiting any chance to win again because you would have to play #2 to Alonso and his massive ego.

    I do wish they would being back the post race interviews where they are sat behind a desk better than the current style.

    You dislike Ferrari, but you support McLaren. McLaren the biggest cheats in F1 :D I dont think anyone who supports McLaren has a leg to stand on when criticising other teams. No other teams has sunk to the depths McLaren have.

    I would agree that Hamilton would never go to Ferrari. But for different reasons. Alonso is a far better driver than Hamilton, he wouldnt even get close to Alonso. Even without Alonso having the number one status, Hamilton would not beat Alonso over a season. Button out-classed Hamilton last season, if Button can then so can the likes of Alonso.

    As for massive egos, name me a driver that doesnt have one. :D
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    Some good news about Kubica. Hopefully he will be back in F1 next year.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,354
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    Decent day for Alonso which means a meltdown on DS. Pretty good outcome then.

    I did used to think they were pretty tough on old 'Nando on here but yesterday I saw a post on another forum hoping that he would 'wipe out and break something.' Though they did add afterwards that hopefully it would only be his foot and nothing too serious, because obviously that makes it okay to wish harm on a driver. :sleep:
    ACU wrote: »
    I would agree that Hamilton would never go to Ferrari. But for different reasons. Alonso is a far better driver than Hamilton, he wouldnt even get close to Alonso. Even without Alonso having the number one status, Hamilton would not beat Alonso over a season. Button out-classed Hamilton last season, if Button can then so can the likes of Alonso.

    To be fair Lewis did beat him in 07 (though I stress to add that I don't want this to spark a debate about that year because it never ends well!) but for what it's worth I do agree that right now Fernando would come out on top. It'd still be very close I think but Fernando, in my opinion, is doing some of the best driving of his career this year and is the most "complete" driver in the field.



    As for yesterday I was thoroughly impressed with Perez. Would've loved to have seen him take the top step but second was still fantastic. Great driving from Lewis who kept his head down and got on with it. Good stuff from Alonso too on his opening laps going from 10th to 5th(?) and happy that he's still got a nice gap in the championship (though I expect Lewis to start reeling him in more and more).
  • R410R410 Posts: 2,991
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    I guess either the people making those claims are just shit-stirring or, perhaps, the press has decided that if Hamilton isn't going to make a fuss about it, they shouldn't stick their oar in either.

    Hard to believe the press would think like that, especially if they thought there's a nice, juicy, moral-outrage story to be had though.
    Not sure people are not making these claims up:
    Will Buxton ‏@willbuxton
    Mr @LewisHamilton told me Monza podium an unemotional experience. "Hard to enjoy it when you're being booed... But I don't care. I won!"
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    Blemished wrote: »
    I did used to think they were pretty tough on old 'Nando on here but yesterday I saw a post on another forum hoping that he would 'wipe out and break something.' Though they did add afterwards that hopefully it would only be his foot and nothing too serious, because obviously that makes it okay to wish harm on a driver. :sleep:

    I am all for supporting your driver, and wishing the 'other' drivers car has a failure so DNFs. However wishing harm to another driver is beyond me. Why would you want harm on any driver? Why not just wish that his car fails, and he has to retire from the race?

    Blemished wrote: »
    To be fair Lewis did beat him in 07 (though I stress to add that I don't want this to spark a debate about that year because it never ends well!) but for what it's worth I do agree that right now Fernando would come out on top. It'd still be very close I think but Fernando, in my opinion, is doing some of the best driving of his career this year and is the most "complete" driver in the field.

    Ye Hamilton did beat him that season, however that team was geared towards Hamilton. He had number 1 status in that team. So it wasnt a fair fight.

    I am not a fan of Alonso, he had a part to play in McLarens cheating saga. Whenever there is a controversy, he seems to be involved somewhere along the line. Yet he seems to come away from it all clean, hence why he should be known as Mr. Teflon. However he is the best driver on the grid by a good margin. That Ferrari was a absolute dog to drive, at the start of the season. Yet he still managed to pull out high points finishes.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,354
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    ACU wrote: »
    I am all for supporting your driver, and wishing the 'other' drivers car has a failure so DNFs. However wishing harm to another driver is beyond me. Why would you want harm on any driver? Why not just wish that his car fails, and he has to retire from the race?

    I know, I couldn't quite believe that anyone would think it's okay to wish that. Thankfully they were told in no uncertain terms by several people that it isn't.

    ACU wrote: »
    Ye Hamilton did beat him that season, however that team was geared towards Hamilton. He had number 1 status in that team. So it wasnt a fair fight.

    I am not a fan of Alonso, he had a part to play in McLarens cheating saga. Whenever there is a controversy, he seems to be involved somewhere along the line. Yet he seems to come away from it all clean, hence why he should be known as Mr. Teflon. However he is the best driver on the grid by a good margin. That Ferrari was a absolute dog to drive, at the start of the season. Yet he still managed to pull out high points finishes.

    That's fair enough. Honestly, even as a very big fan of his, I do see why people dislike him. I wouldn't even begin to defend some of his antics, such as 2007, because I'd be completely in the wrong just like he was (and others). There's just something about him though that I really like. I think he's such a talented driver, he can be ruthless when needs be but then he knows when to play the waiting game. Any little sniff of a victory and he's right there. Believe it or not I do think that as a person he has matured a hell of a lot since 2007 and paired with Hamilton now I think things would go differently but as I've said on here before, maybe I'm just naive.

    As for stuff that gets said about him being a 'cry baby' and being egotistical, yeah sometimes he is but he certainly isn't the only one. ;)

    It's just nice to see that you can appreciate when he drives well though despite not liking him. Unfortunately for some people, not necessarily on this thread because most are pretty fair, if they dislike a driver so much they have to pick fault with anything and everything (and obviously I mean ALL drivers with this because I know that Alonso is far from the only one and I don't want it to sound like I think he's being picked on). I've just never understood it myself. I'm no Hamilton fan but I know a bloody good driver when I see one and I'd always congratulate him on his achievements.

    Anyway I think I've rambled on enough :o and I'm not trying to make anyone like 'Nando. I know hell would freeze over before that happened for some :p Just thought I'd stick my two pennies worth in.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,797
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    I've always liked both Hamilton and Alonso, I don't really like the partisan nature of supporting teams in sports. I always like watching it for the whole event.

    Personally our opinions are fairly well removed from the workings of F1 and I generally take the opinions of those involved with a little more weight(even EJ's :eek:). So when Alonso says Hamilton is his greatest threat I'll take that at face value.

    Hamilton is unquestionably fast but last year showed what he lacks in maturity and restraint. Alonso is also fast but is also much more rounded in the areas that Hamilton is lacking.

    Both Alonso and Hamilton have the talent of making a slow car look fast, but Alonso seems to have the edge with making a slow car a championship contender.

    I would hope Hamilton will learn and mature as a driver and don't really believe Hamilton wouldn't get close to Alonso.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,263
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    Gibman wrote: »
    I have to say, after seeing both this year, that Coulthard is now a better summariser than Brundle. Now he has got used to the commentary side, his more recent experience of F1 is really showing. I also love his calm delivery of the facts. Despite how pleased Sky must have been to get Brundle, they've got the short straw. How wonderfully ironic.

    I disagree but that's your opinion and you're entitled to it but if you were right, it would be negated by the fact the BBC are still stuck with Eddie Jordan.
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    I think the time Alonso spent at Minardi helped him a lot. He no doubt had to drive around issues with the car. Its here where he outshines Hamilton. Hamilton has always had a very good car to drive. He hasnt really had to learn to drive a back of the grid type car. Something that I think he would benefit from. Thats why Hamilton moving to Mercedes is a good move for him in the long run. Whilst Mercedes isnt a back of the grid team, the car isnt a front runner. He would have to learn to cope and drive around deficiencies in the car. This I would think would make anyone a better driver.

    Still we are in for an exciting finish to the season. Although I think Alonso will win it. I feel the others (Hamilton, Button, Vettel and Webber) will end up taking points of each other - which will play into Alonsos hands. If he wins the title, with that car...he does deserve it.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    ACU wrote: »
    I didnt say Lewis was booing, I said he was talking...you really should learn to comprehend what other people post. :D

    Whereas you should learn to accept what other people post.

    For me, booing is bad. Talking, not so much.

    Do you condone the crown booing the winning driver when he comes out onto the podium or booing a national anthem?

    It's a simple question which doesn't require that you mention Lewis Hamilton in the reply.
    If Hamilton had to balls to talk to Massa, when Massa approached him, Massa would not need to embarrass Hamilton on tv. What was the point of Massa standing his ground? Hamilton already said he didnt want to talk about it. Hamilton would have just turned his back and ignored Massa.

    Just..... let it go. :rolleyes:
    I thought Massa acted like a fanny. You're entitled to your own opinion.

    I don't think Hamilton refusing to speak to Massa last year was smart but, at the end of the day, there was a lot of gamesmanship involved last year and Massa's main job was to undermine Hamilon both in the car and out of it and, to some extent, he probably succeeded but if that's how Massa wants to spend his time in F1, rather than trying to win races, I don't have a lot of respect for him.

    I would agree that Hamilton would never go to Ferrari. But for different reasons. Alonso is a far better driver than Hamilton, he wouldnt even get close to Alonso. Even without Alonso having the number one status, Hamilton would not beat Alonso over a season. Button out-classed Hamilton last season, if Button can then so can the likes of Alonso.

    Aye, 2007 was just a dream which didn't really happen.

    And, of course McLaren gave #1 status to an unknown driver rather than a double world-champion who they'd just paid millions to hire.

    Seems, to me, that McLaren simply did what they continued to do with Lewis and Jenson and let their drivers race and, of course, the results are there for all to see.
  • North DownsNorth Downs Posts: 2,470
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    Pity Jenson broke down, was hoping after his win last week he would get back up in the points and still be in contention.

    Last year he had two DNF's, at Silverstone with the wheel incident and retired with a problem in Germany.

    Does anyone know if Lewis has had a DNF through breakdown in the last couple of years, I can only remember him crashing out?
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    Does anyone know if Lewis has had a DNF through breakdown in the last couple of years, I can only remember him crashing out?

    Puncture 2 races ago count?

    Prior to that, he failed to finish the Brazilian race in 2011 due to a gearbox failure.
  • R410R410 Posts: 2,991
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    ACU wrote: »
    If Hamilton had to balls to talk to Massa, when Massa approached him, Massa would not need to embarrass Hamilton on tv. What was the point of Massa standing his ground? Hamilton already said he didnt want to talk about it. Hamilton would have just turned his back and ignored Massa.
    Would you want to speak to someone who was acting like a child and someone who was on a one-man hate campaign against you.
    I have no doubt that Lewis would have talked with him, after they had both calmed down.
    ACU wrote: »
    You and R410 both make me laugh. If you knew anything about the incident and the rules, then you would realise that Vettel did push Alonso wide (and I am a Vettel fan). Vettel moved across, forcing Alonso of the track. This year there is a new rule, where you have to leave at least a cars width for the other car. Sky analysed both incidents. They showed that Alonso left enough room for Vettel, but Vettel ran wide. This was even though the rule (mentioned above) was not in force. Hence Alonso didnt have to leave room, but he did. Under this new rule, Alonso would not have got punished as he left room.
    You are confusing two rules: the cars width space and forcing a car off track.
    Vettel did not break the car width rule. He broke the forcing a car of track rule.
    He did not have to leave a cars width at the edge of the track because Alonso was not in any way alongside him, he was behind.

    Vettel's offence was:
    "Involved in an incident as defined by Article 16.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations"
    and the sporting regs state:
    "16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any
    action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the
    stewards and subsequently investigated) which :

    e) Forced a driver off the track.
    f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver.
    "

    Stewards report
    Sporting regs

    ACU wrote: »
    You dislike Ferrari, but you support McLaren. McLaren the biggest cheats in F1 :D I dont think anyone who supports McLaren has a leg to stand on when criticising other teams. No other teams has sunk to the depths McLaren have.

    I would agree that Hamilton would never go to Ferrari. But for different reasons. Alonso is a far better driver than Hamilton, he wouldnt even get close to Alonso. Even without Alonso having the number one status, Hamilton would not beat Alonso over a season. Button out-classed Hamilton last season, if Button can then so can the likes of Alonso.

    As for massive egos, name me a driver that doesnt have one. :D
    Makes me laugh when people call McLaren the biggest cheats, when Ferrari have gotten away with cheating an awful lot more.

    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    And, of course McLaren gave #1 status to an unknown driver rather than a double world-champion who they'd just paid millions to hire.

    Seems, to me, that McLaren simply did what they continued to do with Lewis and Jenson and let their drivers race and, of course, the results are there for all to see.
    He was an unknown driver to F1, but not to McLaren or racing, he was GP2 champion. GP2 and the likes get more publicity these days so the drivers in the junior formulas are more well known.
    It was obvious that McLaren were not just going to hamper Lewis for Fernando, they have brought Lewis up through the world of motorsport, they were giving him the chance in F1, he showed that he had the pace to win, so there was no need to hamper him for Fernando, as he wanted.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    R410 wrote: »
    He was an unknown driver to F1, but not to McLaren or racing, he was GP2 champion. GP2 and the likes get more publicity these days so the drivers in the junior formulas are more well known.
    It was obvious that McLaren were not just going to hamper Lewis for Fernando, they have brought Lewis up through the world of motorsport, they were giving him the chance in F1, he showed that he had the pace to win, so there was no need to hamper him for Fernando, as he wanted.

    Obviously McLaren were confident in Hamilton's abilities.
    My point was more to do with the idea that a team such as McLaren would have actually gone to the effort of hiring Alonso if they planned to make Lewis the "number 1" driver, right from day 1.

    As I said, I suspect that the only "preferrential treatment" that Lewis got from McLaren in 2007 was that he was given equal status in the team rather than being forced to assist Alonso and the whole world saw how that turned out.

    There's certainly no denying that Alonso is one of the best drivers in F1 and he's probably the best in certain situations.

    Kind of like what happened with Button last year, I suspect that if you put Alonso and Hamilton in poor cars, Alonso would be the one who comes out ahead because Lewis isn't (historically) good at knowing when to "give up" and take a points finish rather than pushing for a win.

    Conversely, I suspect that if you put Alonso and Hamilton in a crushingly good car (such as last years RBR) it might be Lewis who ends up ahead due to slightly better raw speed.

    I must say, as a Hamilton fan, I think that one of his greatest weaknesses is a lack of strategic ability.
    Stick Hamilton in a car and he'll drive the wheels off it but I don't think he's the sort of driver who spends too much time thinking about whether there's anything he can do differently to out-think the opposition.
    That's not such an issue at a team like McLaren, where he's got people sat in front of computers who can run simulations and tell him what to do, but I think it'd be harder for him at a team where people might be expecting HIM to actually make strategic decisions.
  • R410R410 Posts: 2,991
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Obviously McLaren were confident in Hamilton's abilities.
    My point was more to do with the idea that a team such as McLaren would have actually gone to the effort of hiring Alonso if they planned to make Lewis the "number 1" driver, right from day 1.

    As I said, I suspect that the only "preferrential treatment" that Lewis got from McLaren in 2007 was that he was given equal status in the team rather than being forced to assist Alonso and the whole world saw how that turned out.

    There's certainly no denying that Alonso is one of the best drivers in F1 and he's probably the best in certain situations.

    Kind of like what happened with Button last year, I suspect that if you put Alonso and Hamilton in poor cars, Alonso would be the one who comes out ahead because Lewis isn't (historically) good at knowing when to "give up" and take a points finish rather than pushing for a win.

    Conversely, I suspect that if you put Alonso and Hamilton in a crushingly good car (such as last years RBR) it might be Lewis who ends up ahead due to slightly better raw speed.

    I must say, as a Hamilton fan, I think that one of his greatest weaknesses is a lack of strategic ability.
    Stick Hamilton in a car and he'll drive the wheels off it but I don't think he's the sort of driver who spends too much time thinking about whether there's anything he can do differently to out-think the opposition.
    That's not such an issue at a team like McLaren, where he's got people sat in front of computers who can run simulations and tell him what to do, but I think it'd be harder for him at a team where people might be expecting HIM to actually make strategic decisions.
    Yeah I get your point. McLaren would not have had a driver status policy as such, it is just the same now only when a driver has got no chance of becoming champion will he aid his team mate if he still has the ability to, but it appears that Alonso wanted this from day one and started playing up when he couldn't get.
    I can still remember when he stayed in the pit box just to make Lewis wait and lose time.
    Before his season with McLaren I actually liked Alonso, but this put me off him.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 914
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Obviously McLaren were confident in Hamilton's abilities.
    My point was more to do with the idea that a team such as McLaren would have actually gone to the effort of hiring Alonso if they planned to make Lewis the "number 1" driver, right from day 1.

    As I said, I suspect that the only "preferrential treatment" that Lewis got from McLaren in 2007 was that he was given equal status in the team rather than being forced to assist Alonso and the whole world saw how that turned out.

    There's certainly no denying that Alonso is one of the best drivers in F1 and he's probably the best in certain situations.

    Kind of like what happened with Button last year, I suspect that if you put Alonso and Hamilton in poor cars, Alonso would be the one who comes out ahead because Lewis isn't (historically) good at knowing when to "give up" and take a points finish rather than pushing for a win.

    Conversely, I suspect that if you put Alonso and Hamilton in a crushingly good car (such as last years RBR) it might be Lewis who ends up ahead due to slightly better raw speed.

    I must say, as a Hamilton fan, I think that one of his greatest weaknesses is a lack of strategic ability.
    Stick Hamilton in a car and he'll drive the wheels off it but I don't think he's the sort of driver who spends too much time thinking about whether there's anything he can do differently to out-think the opposition.
    That's not such an issue at a team like McLaren, where he's got people sat in front of computers who can run simulations and tell him what to do, but I think it'd be harder for him at a team where people might be expecting HIM to actually make strategic decisions.

    A very sound analysis, I must say.
    All round I would opt for Alonso over Hamilton, because in F1 there will always be more bad times than times when everything goes perfectly for car and driver, and like you said Alonso is better at toughing it out and at developing the car and also strategy.
    Only raw speed and overtaking goes to Hamilton.

    Aside from maybe Horner with Vettel, I doubt there's a team principal in F1 who wouldn't choose Alsono as their number 1, if they could have him.
    That said the best driver on the grid, historically, is a 43 year old German, can't remember his name, but he ain't the driver he was 10 years ago.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    HungerCult wrote: »
    That said the best driver on the grid, historically, is a 43 year old German, can't remember his name, but he ain't the driver he was 10 years ago.

    You have to wonder about that too, really.

    I mean, I wonder if Shuey IS past it or whether, if he was sat in a RBR or McLaren he'd be leading them all home?

    It's interesting to think about this stuff cos, on the one hand, you wonder if the lack of results means that the Merc' is actually a bit of a dog but, OTOH, it could also mean that Nico Rosberg might actually be the best driver out there if he was in a better car.
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Whereas you should learn to accept what other people post.

    For me, booing is bad. Talking, not so much.

    Do you condone the crown booing the winning driver when he comes out onto the podium or booing a national anthem?

    It's a simple question which doesn't require that you mention Lewis Hamilton in the reply.

    I do accept your opinion, I am just highlighting that its an opinion held by the minority. Your judgement is probably clouded by the fact that they were booing Hamilton, and Hamilton was doing the talking. Wonder how you would have felt if someone like Maldonado was talking during the British anthem.

    I have no problem with the crowd booing the drivers. I do have a problem with making a sound (talking or booing) whilst the national anthems are played.

    I am surprised you make a distinction between booing and talking, they are both essentially sounds from the mouth. From what you are saying, crowd booing is out of order, but them all shouting Hamilton is a mofo would be quite fine. :D


    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Just..... let it go. :rolleyes:
    I thought Massa acted like a fanny. You're entitled to your own opinion.

    I don't think Hamilton refusing to speak to Massa last year was smart but, at the end of the day, there was a lot of gamesmanship involved last year and Massa's main job was to undermine Hamilton both in the car and out of it and, to some extent, he probably succeeded but if that's how Massa wants to spend his time in F1, rather than trying to win races, I don't have a lot of respect for him.

    How can you expect me to let it go, when you spout rubbish like this?

    Massas job was to drive the car, help Alonso and score as many points as he could. You are totally deluded if you think Ferrari employed Massa to undermine Hamilton. Hamilton caused the first few accidents with Massa...not the other way round. Massa got fed up after the first couple of incidents and wanted to talk to Hamilton. He didnt have the balls to face Massa so ran of (metaphorically) like a little girl. Hamilton was a joke last year, being involved in incident after incident. 9 times he had a penalty slapped on him. However since he was Hamilton, they were not as severe as they should have been. Especially the ones near the end.


    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Aye, 2007 was just a dream which didn't really happen.

    And, of course McLaren gave #1 status to an unknown driver rather than a double world-champion who they'd just paid millions to hire.

    Seems, to me, that McLaren simply did what they continued to do with Lewis and Jenson and let their drivers race and, of course, the results are there for all to see.

    :D another delusional comment, if you seriously think that the team was not geared more towards Hamilton than Alonso, then there is no point in discussing this issue. Is as clear as day Ron Dennis has a favourite.

    Both McLaren drivers were given equal billing last year, Button out classed Hamilton and taught him a lesson on how to drive using your head. Something I thought Hamilton had learnt from, he claimed he did. However in the heat of battle, it seemed he hasnt (Maldonaldo/Hamilton incident). Some people describe Hamilton as an out and out racer, pure racer are some of the adjectives thrown around. Which to me is code for someone who can drive a car fast, but hasnt got a brain to go with it. Funny how you like Hamilton, yet Maldonado is in the same mould, yet you dont like him.
  • ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    R410 wrote: »
    Would you want to speak to someone who was acting like a child and someone who was on a one-man hate campaign against you.
    I have no doubt that Lewis would have talked with him, after they had both calmed down.

    Not even gonna bother to reply to this rubbish...
    R410 wrote: »
    You are confusing two rules: the cars width space and forcing a car off track.
    Vettel did not break the car width rule. He broke the forcing a car of track rule.
    He did not have to leave a cars width at the edge of the track because Alonso was not in any way alongside him, he was behind.

    Vettel's offence was:
    "Involved in an incident as defined by Article 16.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations"
    and the sporting regs state:
    "16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any
    action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the
    stewards and subsequently investigated) which :

    e) Forced a driver off the track.
    f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver.
    "

    Stewards report
    Sporting regs

    You have made yourself look silly with that bit. :D:D

    The post I was referring to was this one
    Funny how you say that the Vettel penalty was right even though Fernando did exactly the same thing to Vettel last year.
    It was not deserved because Vettel did not force Fernando off, he put himself off. He was behind Vettel as they entered the corner so Vettel was under no obligation to give Fernando room. Fernando chose to go round the outside, he put himself off, but the Ferrari International Assistance favoured Ferrari once again.

    Were you said the penalty was wrong. You now seem to be saying the penalty was right. :D

    I am not going to argue which rule the FIA punished him under, as I may have got it wrong. However I cant see an instance where you can break one of those rules and not the other. They both seem to go hand in hand.

    R410 wrote: »
    Makes me laugh when people call McLaren the biggest cheats, when Ferrari have gotten away with cheating an awful lot more.

    Which offence were Ferrari convicted of, that is worse than using stolen secrets from other teams?

    You say Ferrari have gotten away with cheating. However that is your opinion. What McLaren did is fact. It was proven, and they were fined. Ferrari arent angels, I know that. However they havent stooped so low as to use stolen secrets from other teams.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    HungerCult wrote: »
    That said the best driver on the grid, historically, is a 43 year old German, can't remember his name, but he ain't the driver he was 10 years ago.

    I think that should be the most successful driver on the grid historically as there is no disputing that. :)
  • Sabre92Sabre92 Posts: 726
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    I've been reading this thread over the last day or so but haven't posted in it yet. I'm just going to add my two cents into this.

    On the booing on the podium, I'm not going to condone the way the tifosi behaved before Lewis, I found it pretty unfair considering he'd dominated the race and deserved some respect up there, however it must be said that the British fans are no saints either in this. Having been at Silverstone on the Friday this year there was booing towards Maldonado and when Alonso crashed out in one of the practice sessions a number of fans in there were cheering. When there's rivalries in sport though, as Alonso and Hamilton clearly have, then you're going to expect that kind of behaviour when they race in front of the other's fans. F1, football, rugby, you name it, there's always going to be people there that will do it.

    On the Alonso-Hamilton issue in 2007, while it may not have started out that way there is no doubt that Lewis was the favoured driver in the team by the end of the season. The Hungary pitlane incident was the tipping point in that one, it was clear by the end of that weekend that Lewis had a genuine shot at winning the title and by threatening to go to the FIA over the Spygate issue Fernando had made his position in the team nigh on untenable. From then on McLaren geared that team 100% in favour of Lewis, which was probably a mistake but with the relations in the team as they were at the team it was understandable, particularly given that Alonso was on his way out and would've taken the number 1 back to Renault with him. Fernando had certainly not helped his cause with some poor races in the early part of that season either (Bahrain and Canada in particular spring to mind) when he had an opportunity to assert his dominance over Lewis and didn't take it, which allowed a rivalry to develop in the first place.
  • Nessun DormaNessun Dorma Posts: 12,846
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    Well a new news day and still no reports. Even read an article from the daily mail and still nothing.

    If you can't find support for this sort of thing there then were will you find.

    After what i've experianced on here just for being a Ferrari fan then it's not to surprising that this is made up after Ferrari's home race. It is still sad didn't think things were this bad.

    :D:D:D

    Is that serious comment?
  • Nessun DormaNessun Dorma Posts: 12,846
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    BinaryDad wrote: »
    I find it really odd that the reports of racist chants against Hamilton are all over the F1 forums, but the news outlets have been VERY quiet.

    Although, I could have sworn I saw a Tifosi with a blacked-up face, during the podium ceremony.
  • BinaryDadBinaryDad Posts: 3,988
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    ACU wrote: »
    You dislike Ferrari, but you support McLaren. McLaren the biggest cheats in F1 :D I dont think anyone who supports McLaren has a leg to stand on when criticising other teams. No other teams has sunk to the depths McLaren have.

    Ferrari were caught in the Williams garage in the late 80's trying to dismantle their active suspension.

    In 2007, Renault were caught red handed with a full set of digital blueprints from Mclaren, and yet, were let off with just a slap across the wrists.
    I would agree that Hamilton would never go to Ferrari. But for different reasons. Alonso is a far better driver than Hamilton, he wouldnt even get close to Alonso. Even without Alonso having the number one status, Hamilton would not beat Alonso over a season. Button out-classed Hamilton last season, if Button can then so can the likes of Alonso.

    Hamilton had a tough year, last year. With the death of two close friends and other personal issues, he let events get to him and messed up. Button didn't out-class anybody, he merely drove an average season and didn't mess up.

    You seem to forget that in the same machinery, he was good as if not better than Alonso in his first season. And this season, with MW & co backing Button, Hamilton is walking over him.
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