thou, Inches, feet, yards, chain, furlongs and leagues are not perfect for lengths and distances... and for any real application, you've got take an actual measurement rendering the point somewhat moot.
Huh? You just measure in imperial then. Some of those units (not the archaic ones) are handy because they are a convenient size.
How is Fahrenheit "more precise" than Celsius? If you need more precision, you increase the amount of decimal places.
Because a Fahrenheit degree is smaller then a Centigrade or Celsius one: so a difference of +10C is +18F. So get extra precision without needing to go into decimals which will give you too much, and give you more temperature bands for forecasters to play with.
If you have a distance in the SI system it will be in metres. No further calculation is needed.
If you have a distance in the imperial system it could be in inches, feet, yards, miles - and could well require a further calculation to get a 'sensible' unit..or as may well be the case a combination of units like '5 feet, 3 inches'.
Maybe in a program or in a formula, the unit will be implied, such as metres for length, because the values are represented by variable names.
In practice a metric length can be specified in kilometres or metres or decimetres or centimetres or millimetres or microns, and could have any number of prefixes to multiply or divide by so many lots of thousands.
And it's very easy to get things wrong: milligrams and micrograms for example. And actually this is an example of a quirk in the metric system, as the SI unit for weight is Kilogram - it has a base unit 1000 times smaller! (Otherwise we'd have to prescribe doses in microKilos and nanoKilos -- who said that basing units on powers of ten was less confusing?)
My way of dealing with it is to equate it to a % since 0 is about the coldest it will ever get and 100 is about the hottest in air temperature as experienced by humans
Exactly. M. Fahrenheit knew what he was doing!
It does amuse me how worked up people get over this stuff.
What gets me worked up is the assumption that, because something is based on multiples of 10 or 1000, then it must necessarily be more logical and therefore better. Some things are and some aren't. Sometimes it depends on what you're doing. If I'm comparing TV screen sizes, then I'm going to use inches because anything else is meaningless.
Huh? You just measure in imperial then. Some of those units (not the archaic ones) are handy because they are a convenient size.
Because a Fahrenheit degree is smaller then a Centigrade or Celsius one: so a difference of +10C is +18F. So get extra precision without needing to go into decimals which will give you too much, and give you more temperature bands for forecasters to play with.
Maybe in a program or in a formula, the unit will be implied, such as metres for length, because the values are represented by variable names.
In practice a metric length can be specified in kilometres or metres or decimetres or centimetres or millimetres or microns, and could have any number of prefixes to multiply or divide by so many lots of thousands.
And it's very easy to get things wrong: milligrams and micrograms for example. And actually this is an example of a quirk in the metric system, as the SI unit for weight is Kilogram - it has a base unit 1000 times smaller! (Otherwise we'd have to prescribe doses in microKilos and nanoKilos -- who said that basing units on powers of ten was less confusing?)
Just measure in metric then? The fridge which you;re trying to visualise if it will fit in the gap will have it's dimensions in cm. Fahrenheit more precise? I don't think you could tell the difference between 24 & 25 degrees Celsius, let alone the degrees Fahrenheit.
Might as well have freeziing, cold, tepid, warm, very warm, hot.
the SI unit for mass is the kg.
and microkilos don't make sense. You've just combined two unitless prefixs.
Huh? You just measure in imperial then. Some of those units (not the archaic ones) are handy because they are a convenient size.
Because a Fahrenheit degree is smaller then a Centigrade or Celsius one: so a difference of +10C is +18F. So get extra precision without needing to go into decimals which will give you too much, and give you more temperature bands for forecasters to play with.
Maybe in a program or in a formula, the unit will be implied, such as metres for length, because the values are represented by variable names.
In practice a metric length can be specified in kilometres or metres or decimetres or centimetres or millimetres or microns, and could have any number of prefixes to multiply or divide by so many lots of thousands.
And it's very easy to get things wrong: milligrams and micrograms for example. And actually this is an example of a quirk in the metric system, as the SI unit for weight is Kilogram - it has a base unit 1000 times smaller! (Otherwise we'd have to prescribe doses in microKilos and nanoKilos -- who said that basing units on powers of ten was less confusing?)
I did make a point previously that the metric system has some limitations as base 10 does only has 2 divisors ( or 4 if you include 1 and 10 ) so its not great at being able to do fractions.
For example if something is 1 metre and you said you want a 1/3 of it that would be 3.333333 centimeteres. 2/3 would be 6.6666666. If base 12 were used these fractions would resolve to exact numbers.
Another example are hours and minutes. We are quite happy to use 60 instead of 100. This I think it probably to do with the fact that 60 is the smallest number to have 12 divisors or factors so more fractions resolve to whole numbers compared with using 100.
I guess there are some around in the autistic spectrum who see it all as a big deal but personally I can't see the problem with using both systems for cultural purposes.
Yet another reason why we must force our extraction from the rotting corpse that is the EU project. Time and time again our EU overlords make sweeping changes to our way of life without so much as asking us for our opinion. It's neigh time we put an end to this tyranny. No longer shall Britannia be a slave to the EU project and it's methods of bondage.
I remember a few weeks ago, a BBC Weather presenter quoted atmospheric pressure in hectopascals (I think during the recent storms).
He didn't explain it and I wondered when millibars had become old-hat (if indeed it was millibars).
I must admit I had to Google to confirm.
I haven't heard it used since, the presenters are confining themselves to low and high pressure.
In spite of the protestations on this thread that Imperial units are meaningless now, I see that many don't actually understand Metric units very well either.
Yet another reason why we must force our extraction from the rotting corpse that is the EU project. Time and time again our EU overlords make sweeping changes to our way of life without so much as asking us for our opinion. It's neigh time we put an end to this tyranny. No longer shall Britannia be a slave to the EU project and it's methods of bondage.
Our opinion?
Sorry, did you forget that we have European Elections?
We elect members of the European Parliament who create this legislation. The UK is very much a part of this decision. Of course the media here are having a hissy fit about it, screaming about how unsafe it is to use one number instead of another, how we will all die in a terrible train crash and drivers who are at the moment able to look at one number and see if that's too fast or slow will suddenly forget how to do that because a different number is on a sign. Look at the wording used in the likes of the Mail and the Express. It's pathetic, god help you if you think the way they want you to. Using words like "forced" and "banned" when all it is is a modernisation to allow us to be future proof.
Once again, the UK representation at EU level was involved and authorised this to happen, the very same people democratically elected by us to make these kind of decisions. If you think we should waste millions having a referendum, live TV debates and opinion polls about metrification of the railways then please get a petition going but if you don't mind I'd quite like a modern railway system.
In spite of the protestations on this thread that Imperial units are meaningless now, I see that many don't actually understand Metric units very well either.
Presumably the BBC have realised this.
I find it annoying when newsreaders give distances in Kilometres, as far as I am aware we still use miles in this country.>:(
The issue is one of implementing a common signalling system for safe pan-European rail services. It sounds like exactly the sort of the EU is charged with.
The EU has never been charged with anything. Not a single person has voted for our laws to be made in Brussels. How about they start looking at the disgraceful economic performance of the Eurozone if they want to do something useful?
The EU has never been charged with anything. Not a single person has voted for our laws to be made in Brussels. How about they start looking at the disgraceful economic performance of the Eurozone if they want to do something useful?
Because the people who's task it is to harmonise the railways and ensure Europe has a modern and efficient network probably have nothing to do with the economic performance of the Union. It's two totally unrelated things. It's like asking the Secretary of State for Education why is she bothering trying to improve schools when the Army needs a new tank?
We don't vote on every single law and tiny detail of our life which comes from Westminster, why on EARTH would we vote on something like this? Where would it end? Should the public be given a vote on international trade rates between the EU and Zambia? Should we get to vote on how fast ships are allowed to go on the Channel?
No. No we shouldn't. That's why we have elections to choose people to debate and make these decisions for us. Thats how it works. We don't need to have a say on every tiny little thing and if we did then we would still be stuck voting on legislation which was passed back in the 1900s.
The issue is one of implementing a common signalling system for safe pan-European rail services. It sounds like exactly the sort of the EU is charged with.
If it's only on the railway, then who cares? The public don't need to get involved. (And anyway I would have thought they used advanced enough technology that wouldn't depend on a driver looking at a big, painted speed limit sign.)
We started metrification in the 1960s, decades before the EU. That's when it started being taught in schools. Using metric on exams is common sense as it's taught, it's nothing to do with the EU. It's not the fault of the EU we are in this stupid situation now. I'm just thankful they are trying to finish the job we only managed to get half done.
Anyway, the EU isn't some omnipresent being forcing us to make these changes. You do realise that the UK representation at EU level agreed to these changes as we are..shock horror...a member of the EU and have a say in policy making!
Metrication was rarely if at all used in the sixties and imperial measurements were taught and used in schools during the sixties without exception.
What makes you think that we have a role in policy making ?We can be outvoted at every turn at EU level. Yes it is the EU making us adhere to this metrication .Do you not recall the greengrocer taken to court for daring to use our age old measurements. It of course might also be due to our government falling over themselves to do the EU bidding.
Metrication was rarely if at all used in the sixties and imperial measurements were taught and used in schools during the sixties without exception.
What makes you think that we have a role in policy making ?We can be outvoted at every turn at EU level. Yes it is the EU making us adhere to this metrication .Do you not recall the greengrocer taken to court for daring to use our age old measurements. It of course might also be due to our government falling over themselves to do the EU bidding.
The greengrocer was taken to court because he was ONLY using imperial. I would certainly complain about him to trading standards as he was not adhering to the law which states that both must be available. As I don't use imperial at all I'd not know if he was shortchanging me so I'd insist he used metric, which he couldn't do, so was breaking the law. I would expect any trader breaking the law to face legal action and court if necessary. To use that story as EU bashing is silly, the man was breaking UK law!
I'm not sure why you mention what was taught in the 1960s. That was 50 years ago which just shows how dated imperial actually is. It's not taught anymore, my teachers in the 1990s and 2000s never mentioned this antiquated system.
Excuse me Andrue but I am firmly on this planet thank you.
You misconstrue what I was saying about pupils preferring imperial when weighing ingredients at home.It is because their Parents although taught metric themselves still prefer imperial in their kitchens and personal lives,as it is easier to calculate when cooking.
In other words imperial measures are still used in peoples private lives.While they can of course.
You don't seem to have the measure of the EU either.Perhaps it should revert to imperial measurements when preparing it's accounts then they might just be passed by the auditors one of these days.
It is because their Parents although taught metric themselves still prefer imperial in their kitchens and personal lives,as it is easier to calculate when cooking.
I don't follow why it is 'easier'. Surely you just use scales that are set to the unit you need or you use a variety of measuring jugs in the units you want or you turn your oven to gas4 or 180C. I can't remember the last time I saw an oven in F.
The fact that it was against the law to sell bananas by the pound when we had done it for centuries was the reason people were so outraged.True the law was there but it was and is a bad law.Which we would never have had,had it not been for the EU.
I have to laugh when you say you would have wanted to be served in metric. Why?Do you think you would have been short changed ?
I simply mentioned the 60's in answer to a comment Blofield made.I know full well it was 50 years ago,but that doesn't necessarily make it bad.True things move on and not everything for the better.
I don't follow why it is 'easier'. Surely you just use scales that are set to the unit you need or you use a variety of measuring jugs in the units you want or you turn your oven to gas4 or 180C. I can't remember the last time I saw an oven in F.
I'm not talking about F. oven temperatures or gas or electric.Please do keep up.
I'm talking about measuring ingredients which is simpler in ounces.
I only mentioned it anyway as an example of how people manage in their own private lives.
I'm not talking about F. oven temperatures or gas or electric.Please do keep up.
I'm talking about measuring ingredients which is simpler in ounces.
I only mentioned it anyway as an example of how people manage in their own private lives.
How is it? Grams for weighing solid stuff, millilitres for measuring liquid.
Not sure why you say ounces, eight of ounces, etc is simpler.
I'm talking about measuring ingredients which is simpler in ounces.
How is it simpler? You weigh something out on scales 50g/100g/200g. This is just as simple as imperial and easier if you have solids and liquids.
The point about the ovens is that people don't have a problem with using Centrgrade when cooking.
It is always easier to use smaller units, metric measurements do not convert all that well to
many of our old traditional recipes if you are being exact for instance, some cakes and pastries. It is easier to adjust quantities and keep to ratios of ingredients.
Whatever you are happy with you should be able to go for metric imperial whatever.
Let us keep our personal freedoms to do as we please as long as possible.
As for oven temps no problem simple set it right and go.
Hey this thread is supposed to be about railways and the running of perhaps it should be kept to that.
Comments
Because a Fahrenheit degree is smaller then a Centigrade or Celsius one: so a difference of +10C is +18F. So get extra precision without needing to go into decimals which will give you too much, and give you more temperature bands for forecasters to play with.
Maybe in a program or in a formula, the unit will be implied, such as metres for length, because the values are represented by variable names.
In practice a metric length can be specified in kilometres or metres or decimetres or centimetres or millimetres or microns, and could have any number of prefixes to multiply or divide by so many lots of thousands.
And it's very easy to get things wrong: milligrams and micrograms for example. And actually this is an example of a quirk in the metric system, as the SI unit for weight is Kilogram - it has a base unit 1000 times smaller! (Otherwise we'd have to prescribe doses in microKilos and nanoKilos -- who said that basing units on powers of ten was less confusing?)
What gets me worked up is the assumption that, because something is based on multiples of 10 or 1000, then it must necessarily be more logical and therefore better. Some things are and some aren't. Sometimes it depends on what you're doing. If I'm comparing TV screen sizes, then I'm going to use inches because anything else is meaningless.
Just measure in metric then? The fridge which you;re trying to visualise if it will fit in the gap will have it's dimensions in cm. Fahrenheit more precise? I don't think you could tell the difference between 24 & 25 degrees Celsius, let alone the degrees Fahrenheit.
Might as well have freeziing, cold, tepid, warm, very warm, hot.
the SI unit for mass is the kg.
and microkilos don't make sense. You've just combined two unitless prefixs.
I did make a point previously that the metric system has some limitations as base 10 does only has 2 divisors ( or 4 if you include 1 and 10 ) so its not great at being able to do fractions.
For example if something is 1 metre and you said you want a 1/3 of it that would be 3.333333 centimeteres. 2/3 would be 6.6666666. If base 12 were used these fractions would resolve to exact numbers.
Another example are hours and minutes. We are quite happy to use 60 instead of 100. This I think it probably to do with the fact that 60 is the smallest number to have 12 divisors or factors so more fractions resolve to whole numbers compared with using 100.
I guess there are some around in the autistic spectrum who see it all as a big deal but personally I can't see the problem with using both systems for cultural purposes.
In summer, we use Fahrenheit
In winter we use Celsius.
That way the newspapers can make the weather seem more extreme than it actually is.
He didn't explain it and I wondered when millibars had become old-hat (if indeed it was millibars).
I must admit I had to Google to confirm.
I haven't heard it used since, the presenters are confining themselves to low and high pressure.
In spite of the protestations on this thread that Imperial units are meaningless now, I see that many don't actually understand Metric units very well either.
Presumably the BBC have realised this.
Our opinion?
Sorry, did you forget that we have European Elections?
We elect members of the European Parliament who create this legislation. The UK is very much a part of this decision. Of course the media here are having a hissy fit about it, screaming about how unsafe it is to use one number instead of another, how we will all die in a terrible train crash and drivers who are at the moment able to look at one number and see if that's too fast or slow will suddenly forget how to do that because a different number is on a sign. Look at the wording used in the likes of the Mail and the Express. It's pathetic, god help you if you think the way they want you to. Using words like "forced" and "banned" when all it is is a modernisation to allow us to be future proof.
Once again, the UK representation at EU level was involved and authorised this to happen, the very same people democratically elected by us to make these kind of decisions. If you think we should waste millions having a referendum, live TV debates and opinion polls about metrification of the railways then please get a petition going but if you don't mind I'd quite like a modern railway system.
I find it annoying when newsreaders give distances in Kilometres, as far as I am aware we still use miles in this country.>:(
The EU has never been charged with anything. Not a single person has voted for our laws to be made in Brussels. How about they start looking at the disgraceful economic performance of the Eurozone if they want to do something useful?
Because the people who's task it is to harmonise the railways and ensure Europe has a modern and efficient network probably have nothing to do with the economic performance of the Union. It's two totally unrelated things. It's like asking the Secretary of State for Education why is she bothering trying to improve schools when the Army needs a new tank?
We don't vote on every single law and tiny detail of our life which comes from Westminster, why on EARTH would we vote on something like this? Where would it end? Should the public be given a vote on international trade rates between the EU and Zambia? Should we get to vote on how fast ships are allowed to go on the Channel?
No. No we shouldn't. That's why we have elections to choose people to debate and make these decisions for us. Thats how it works. We don't need to have a say on every tiny little thing and if we did then we would still be stuck voting on legislation which was passed back in the 1900s.
Metrication was rarely if at all used in the sixties and imperial measurements were taught and used in schools during the sixties without exception.
What makes you think that we have a role in policy making ?We can be outvoted at every turn at EU level. Yes it is the EU making us adhere to this metrication .Do you not recall the greengrocer taken to court for daring to use our age old measurements. It of course might also be due to our government falling over themselves to do the EU bidding.
The greengrocer was taken to court because he was ONLY using imperial. I would certainly complain about him to trading standards as he was not adhering to the law which states that both must be available. As I don't use imperial at all I'd not know if he was shortchanging me so I'd insist he used metric, which he couldn't do, so was breaking the law. I would expect any trader breaking the law to face legal action and court if necessary. To use that story as EU bashing is silly, the man was breaking UK law!
I'm not sure why you mention what was taught in the 1960s. That was 50 years ago which just shows how dated imperial actually is. It's not taught anymore, my teachers in the 1990s and 2000s never mentioned this antiquated system.
You misconstrue what I was saying about pupils preferring imperial when weighing ingredients at home.It is because their Parents although taught metric themselves still prefer imperial in their kitchens and personal lives,as it is easier to calculate when cooking.
In other words imperial measures are still used in peoples private lives.While they can of course.
You don't seem to have the measure of the EU either.Perhaps it should revert to imperial measurements when preparing it's accounts then they might just be passed by the auditors one of these days.
The fact that it was against the law to sell bananas by the pound when we had done it for centuries was the reason people were so outraged.True the law was there but it was and is a bad law.Which we would never have had,had it not been for the EU.
I have to laugh when you say you would have wanted to be served in metric. Why?Do you think you would have been short changed ?
I simply mentioned the 60's in answer to a comment Blofield made.I know full well it was 50 years ago,but that doesn't necessarily make it bad.True things move on and not everything for the better.
I'm not talking about F. oven temperatures or gas or electric.Please do keep up.
I'm talking about measuring ingredients which is simpler in ounces.
I only mentioned it anyway as an example of how people manage in their own private lives.
How is it? Grams for weighing solid stuff, millilitres for measuring liquid.
Not sure why you say ounces, eight of ounces, etc is simpler.
Yes, I know 1Torr = 1mmHg, but what I don't understand is why it has any relevance today outside beyond an actual mercury manometer.
The kilometre is a far more sensible unit of measurement.
Well I didn't say you were.I don't think I was talking to you.As nice as that might be we haven't met.
The point about the ovens is that people don't have a problem with using Centrgrade when cooking.
many of our old traditional recipes if you are being exact for instance, some cakes and pastries. It is easier to adjust quantities and keep to ratios of ingredients.
Whatever you are happy with you should be able to go for metric imperial whatever.
Let us keep our personal freedoms to do as we please as long as possible.
As for oven temps no problem simple set it right and go.
Hey this thread is supposed to be about railways and the running of perhaps it should be kept to that.