ITV Looks to drop ITV2,3 & 4 from freesat

Rapture TVRapture TV Posts: 1,992
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As some in the industry suspected ITV is not serious about backing freesat.

Today the ITV chiefs confirm that they are considering pulling ITV 2, 3 and ITV 4 from freeview and freesat.

See broadcast: http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/5004376.article

What would you do if freesat no longer offered access to ITV2, 3 and 4?
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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,242
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    Good idea let's move the channels they are allready making profit on and leave the one with massive losses!
  • Rapture TVRapture TV Posts: 1,992
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    Good idea let's move the channels they are allready making profit on and leave the one with massive losses!

    Its a sign of how bad things are at the UK's largest free to air channel operator. However Ch4 has increased revenue and bottomline profits when they took E4 and More 4 off of Sky's pay platform and made them free to air.

    However if ITV was really behing 'freesat' they would have ruled out any such action. The fact they didn't and said its all just down to how much Sky or Virgin would pay is a warning of what is to come.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,624
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    Rapture TV wrote: »

    What would you do if freesat no longer offered access to ITV2, 3 and 4?
    Nothing, only an idiot would subscribe to pay TV to get these.

    I only watched the football on ITV4 (if I didnt like the ITV1 game) and the TOCA.

    I would now watch the ITV1 match anyway as its in HD and could live without the TOCA.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 166
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    Although it says "exclusively" to SKY & Virgin, it does not say anything about freesat in the article, so the title by Rapture TV was in fact incorrect.

    Although, it could mean that the ITV high ups dont know anything about freesat. :rolleyes:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 808
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    Obviously this would be bad news for Real Digital also, unless you guys can offer them as subscription channels.

    As for me, if they leave freesat, so be it. If I am honest, I rarely if ever watch ITV2 or 3. I do watch ITV4 for the crap movies (I love crap movies) and football, but if it is gone, then so be it. j

    I suppose I am lucky in the sense that if ITV pull 3 of their channels, I still have the other 4 Irish channels to watch.

    mj
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 808
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    I am confused though...

    By removing the channels from Freesat and Freeview, you are losing a lot of viewers.

    Obviously ITV reckon that the advertising money they are getting now will be less than the combined subs from Sky / Virgin and the smaller advertising revenue received if they go on pay tv. (I presume that as their market would be smaller after going off Freesat and Freeview, their advertising rates would change).

    Now this is all a reaction to the current economic climate. There is not a lot of money out there for people to play with and as such, they want better value for their money. As such, they are not willing to pay high advertising rates.

    When things get better, and they will get better, ITV will be left in the position where they will have a smaller market share as freesat and Freeview viewers will not be able to receive them. Will they then go FTA again??

    I don't know.... Savings have to be made, cut backs need to be made. But... perhaps ITV could make some quality TV and attract viewers and advertising that way instead of a lot of the rubbish they produce.

    Perhaps they would save one by scrapping one of their channels altogether??

    Perhaps getting rid of some of the many regional variations would save money also (I count 21).

    Anyway... back to work for me.

    MJ
  • Young TurksYoung Turks Posts: 3,262
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    Flyer 10 wrote: »
    Nothing, only an idiot would subscribe to pay TV to get these.

    I agree. Why ITV thinks people would pay to watch these rubbish is beyond me. If I wanted to pay for TV, I would pay for channels like Discovery, National Geographic etc as I am now, not for ITV3 or ITV4.

    Having said that I would probably miss the footy on ITV4 but I wouldn't pay a penny to watch these channels.
  • DiversoDiverso Posts: 414
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    So ITV wants to make it's channels exclusive to sky/Virgin media? Who's going to watch them? I am flabbergasted that ITV2 is the sixth most watched TV channel in the UK. The only shows I watch on any ITV channel are Britain's got talent, that's it. I'm worried that moving these channels off freesat and freeview will discourage other broadcasters from going free to air in future, if that was not the case then let ITV put ITV2, 3, and 4 on SKY, better still let them take ITV 1 as well, we don't want it. :mad:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 50
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    I'd miss ITV. Some of the commercials are quite good.
  • ian-dian-d Posts: 3,806
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    This has been bouncing around for ages, I cannot imagine it will happen. Although suspect if it did, Freesat and Freeview, the true free services will suffer, though I'm not convinced it would increase subscriptions for Sky and VM.
  • NewWorldManNewWorldMan Posts: 4,890
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    I'd miss ITV 4 for the old action series like The Saint, Champions, Randall & Hopkirk... But I could live without them.

    This morning the chief operating officer reckoned ITV was holding its audience share well and when the recession is over the ads will make things rosy. So it seems odd to think of making ITV2-4 sub. Could just play into the hands of Ch 4 and 5 for example.

    That Film 4 graph shown in one of the comments is suggestive.
  • White-KnightWhite-Knight Posts: 2,508
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    ITV 2 and 4 have a lot of good films and ITV often carries some good football matches so to describe them as useless is beyond me.

    I would miss both channels because of the film content as Film 4 aside, they're the only real premier movie channels on Freesat (unless of course you want B movies!).

    I also think its a disgrace if the regulator allows this to happen. UK FTA tv is fast becoming a joke. I wonder if the government would be so keen on pay tv if they didn't have their fat cat mp's salaries to pay for it?
  • NewWorldManNewWorldMan Posts: 4,890
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    A different slant on this here.

    'The ITV executives were sceptical about the suggestion advanced by UBS analysts that it should move its digital channels off Freeview and make them exclusive to Sky and Virgin's pay-TV services.

    Cresswell said that revenues from the digital channels would halve if they were removed from Freeview, so Sky and Virgin would have to pay a significant premium for exclusivity for it to make financial sense to ITV.

    "We can't see how the arithmetic of pay really works for the company at the moment, but it's something we are always keeping an eye on," Grade added.'

    So it doesn't look like it's impending.
  • Rapture TVRapture TV Posts: 1,992
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    mjsmyth wrote: »
    Obviously this would be bad news for Real Digital also, unless you guys can offer them as subscription channels.

    As for me, if they leave freesat, so be it. If I am honest, I rarely if ever watch ITV2 or 3. I do watch ITV4 for the crap movies (I love crap movies) and football, but if it is gone, then so be it. j

    I suppose I am lucky in the sense that if ITV pull 3 of their channels, I still have the other 4 Irish channels to watch.

    mj

    mj, it is very worrying that ITV seems to not even to be prepared to rule out an exclusive to Pay TV which is what droping freeview and freesat means in favour of a Sky and or Virgin exclusive deal.

    Freesat would lose the channels if they encrypt the current feeds as both Sky and freesat boxes share the same data streams. It does mean that freesat would lose the channles otherwise there would be no point Sky paying from them.

    As for REAL Digital yes subscription could be offered but the offer of lots of free to air channels with just a small amount of Pay TV is what is being planned.

    ITV seems to be completely lost. The last time ITV Digital was pulled it left consumers with On-Digital boxes and no certain future. Have they learned nothing?
  • Rapture TVRapture TV Posts: 1,992
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    ian-d wrote: »
    This has been bouncing around for ages, I cannot imagine it will happen. Although suspect if it did, Freesat and Freeview, the true free services will suffer, though I'm not convinced it would increase subscriptions for Sky and VM.

    Yes it had been rumoured before but not confirmed at a press conference by a top company Director of ITV PLC.

    If it happens it will bring little benefit to Sky but it will damage the commercial offering that freesat is offering.

    Sky has a long record of doing deals that don't add much to their business but damage or restrict a competitors.
  • Rapture TVRapture TV Posts: 1,992
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    A different slant on this here.

    'The ITV executives were sceptical about the suggestion advanced by UBS analysts that it should move its digital channels off Freeview and make them exclusive to Sky and Virgin's pay-TV services.

    Cresswell said that revenues from the digital channels would halve if they were removed from Freeview, so Sky and Virgin would have to pay a significant premium for exclusivity for it to make financial sense to ITV.

    "We can't see how the arithmetic of pay really works for the company at the moment, but it's something we are always keeping an eye on," Grade added.'

    So it doesn't look like it's impending.

    USB is of course one of the analysts that keeps pumping BSkyB's shares.

    However the headline of the story is that ITV PLC has not ruled it out. That is the point they are not 100% behind free to air just where ever they can get the most money.
  • IanPIanP Posts: 3,661
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    ITV should have been in control of it's own destiny by operating a Pay TV service on DTT. When they bowed to pressure from the City and closed ITV/ONdigital they became just another commercial broadcaster struggling for ad revenue against a sea of rivals including pay channels. Their long term prospects as a major force in the media landscape died with ITV/ONdigital. With SDN put up for sale by ITV I don't think they see any future for the DTT platform and Freesat is proving to be too little too late as Sky continues to grow at a faster rate. With more competition from increased capacity on the commercial DTT multiplexes post DSO and possibly more multiplexes created by auctioning the "digital dividend", if Sky continue to grow there'll come a point when it makes commercial sense to abandon the FTA revenue model. ITV is likely to be a shadow of what it is currently in the future let alone what it used to be.
  • tvmad-alantvmad-alan Posts: 1,996
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    ITV, I feel would never pull channels on a platform that it owns 50% of, as this would mean a big lost of advert money as the companies would very big in costs.

    Also it is part owner of freeview too, so again if they pull from this platform, it would mean the only place national is virgin and sky, so advert costs would be down 50%.

    This idea is just to far out and all is needed is for Mr grade's so called work to be undone, so ITV can put money into real shows and to put money into local news network, which make ITV channels the best place for your local news and weather.

    Put national news shows on 2, 3 & 4 at different times.

    loose the competitions that seem to be fixed on some of the shows. the questions are so easy and there too many closing times for the different systems like phone, red button and Internet with different costs to play. Also we do not hear who has won each competitions, which system they have won by and how & who it has been picked?

    X factor needs to be cleaned up so we have real winners, not picked by Simon or others as there have a contact with them. Better phone & red button voting by viewers and a real counting of votes live.

    Same with "Britain got talent show".

    Also with the "Get me out of here" show we need real time voting details and no management of the show as in the past.

    Need for less of the two evening soaps in the week, to give more space for other drama, comedies and films.

    No more advert backing shows that show an advert all the time the show is on as this is just a mess. Advert at the start of the hour show and at the end by not in between adverts.

    ITV 4 could be renamed for a film, sport, news channel. they could go with another TV company to do this, BUT not with sky like they did with men & motors as they lost out there.

    Save money by not paying Simon, as he gets money from the signed contacts with all shows new people.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,330
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    Cresswell said that revenues from the digital channels would halve if they were removed from Freeview, so Sky and Virgin would have to pay a significant premium for exclusivity for it to make financial sense to ITV.

    They aren't going to pay any decent money for a few crappy channels like those, Sky and VM would have to pay for them out of existing revenues, they couldn't charge any extra.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,624
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    'The ITV executives were sceptical about the suggestion advanced by UBS analysts that it should move its digital channels off Freeview and make them exclusive to Sky and Virgin's pay-TV services.

    I did a search on them and one guy in particular and everything was pro pay TV and pro sky.

    It seems like they are trying to convince channels to go to sky and it wouldnt surprise me if payment or an ulterior motive was happening here.

    It looks very dodgy.
  • goggledgoggled Posts: 1,751
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    Rapture TV wrote: »
    However the headline of the story is that ITV PLC has not ruled it out. .... they are not 100% behind free to air just where ever they can get the most money.

    TBH does any business rule anything out, unless illegal, sometimes unethical, when push comes to shove? I hope it doe not happen, but however much ITV is behind FTA, (IMO the comment is a bit sweeping) survival mode begets strange decisions.

    Could just be a rattling of some cages to get better funding?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,237
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    ITV's allegiances change with the wind, always have done, and are ruled entirely by whatever has the potential to make them the most money. They backed satellite TV (Granada through BSB and GSkyB) when they thought that was the next big thing, they backed pay-terrestrial when they thought that was the next licence to print money, then they backed the free-to-air horses Freeview and Freesat when the advertising market was buoyant and the ad revenue was flowing like water.

    Now the downturn shows that business cannot live by FTA alone, and ITV is looking at its options. Think about it - as long as they kept ITV1 on Freeview, they could pull in an easy £60 million a year just by flogging off the rest of their Freeview capacity. (Drop ITV1 as a PSB entirely and the money saved from no longer having to provide regional news, etc, plus increased subscription income would be even more significant still, perhaps enough to offset the loss of their half of Mux 2.) And as for Freesat - well, that's interesting but it's never going to pay the bills, is it? Freeview HD will almost completely erase Freesat's major selling point, so it has little or no future.

    ITV isn't committed to Free-To-Air broadcasting. While it was profitable, sure enough, but not for one second longer. It's really only the BBC which desperately needs free-to-air (and absolutely no card slots, please) in an attempt to stave off any thoughts of losing the licence fee. That priority is well and good for them, but it's not a priority shared by the commercial sector. Freesat may have been quite a nice playground for the BBC and ITV while it lasted, but when one of the teams takes their ball and goes home, the game inevitably has to end.

    Potentially ITV would be well placed to lead the way towards a return of a pay platform to DTT - although given the blazing success that they made of it last time, perhaps they would be more cautious this time around. If they hadn't already sold their stake in SDN then they could easily have shuffled the space around and more or less given the whole of Mux A over to providing pay channels in MPEG4 format. If ITV led the way, then Channel 4 and Five might follow faster than anyone had previously expected. C4 certainly has pay ambitions again (why else would it want to buy Virgin Media Television?) and RTL is known to be seeking an expansion (and a payday) from Five. A new 'PayView' service from the major terrestrials could be just what they all need. That does, of course, leave the BBC rather on their own - but since when did that bother the commercial channels?

    That Broadcast article is very interesting for the way that ITV are 'thinking out loud' and more or less outlining the terms of any deal that they would want. Previously the talk has been just "going pay" but they've introduced the idea of being "exclusive" to Sky or Virgin, if only they would double their typical payment for their channels. Would Sky pay ITV double the going rate for exclusivity on some of the most popular channels in the country? Yes, absolutely they would. Sky needs to break through the glass ceiling of 10 million customers and the ITV channels would do that. Sky would sign that deal in a heartbeat. And ITV has just named its price. So now it might just be a matter of time.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,605
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    bignoise wrote: »
    Freeview HD will almost completely erase Freesat's major selling point, so it has little or no future.

    Disagree as until DSO (here in NI it is still 3-4 years away) there are those who cannot get a decent DTT signal and will go down the satellite route. Some will take Sky but others will continue to get Freesat. I think it does have a future. Only recently I was travelling up the coast in SW Scotland and was amazed at number of satellite dishes. This was largely due to no Freeview and while most are probably Sky linked I've no doubt others were Freesat. This will continue I believe in many areas until DSO so Freesat has a future.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 808
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    Its a gamble all round...

    Will people leave Freesat and Freeview in enough numbers and sign up with Sky / Virgin to make it a worthwhile venture?

    If not, Sky will obviously be taking a financial hit unless they charge more for their packages.

    If people don't leave Freesat and Freeview in enough numbers and sign up with Sky / Virgin, then ITV 2, 3 and 4 will actually lose potential viewers which would have an adverse affect on their ad revenues.

    So.... the big gamble is whether enough people value ITV 2, 3 & 4 enough to ditch their free tv and sign up to pay tv.

    I can only answer for this house and that answer is most definitely no.

    mj
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,237
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    mjsmyth wrote: »
    Will people leave Freesat and Freeview in enough numbers and sign up with Sky / Virgin to make it a worthwhile venture?

    So.... the big gamble is whether enough people value ITV 2, 3 & 4 enough to ditch their free tv and sign up to pay tv.
    According to that UBS survey that was being quoted earlier in the week, amongst the households which don't have pay-TV, one in four (25%) would get it if ITV 2/3/4 were pay channels. That rises to two in five (40%) if ITV1 were to become a pay channel.

    Getting even a quarter of the (12 million or so?) non-pay households to sign up would be a valuable prize for Sky or Virgin - and very likely to be one that they would consider well worth paying top dollar for.

    Someone in a thread on the broadcasting forum did the maths and it looks like it could just work out to be worth it for ITV, if they were willing to take such a major step.
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