I think you may be missing the point, the fear of a snp/lab coalition swayed many voters and ultimately won the tories the election
I predict there will be a lot of disappointed voters in Scotland today
Well, I can tell you that all the people I have talked to so far have been delighted.
The English fear of the SNP is not the fault of the Scots. Blame Clegg and Cameron for that one.
This is why Labour is dying. They are totally incapable of facing up to their own failures, instead choosing to heap spite and bile on others for exercising their democratic right.
To be fair, the SNP has pretty-much outmanoeuvred everybody.
Their worst-case scenario was that they'd see no increase (or only a small increase) in support and they could carry on being the "plucky underdogs" fighting for Scotland with no loss of credibility.
The other two scenarios were that they do well and form an alliance with Labour and gain power or, what seems to be happening, they do well but a Con majority gets in and they can spend the next 4 years allowing the Con's to piss off jocks which'll set the SNP up nicely for another referendum.
I dunno whether they realised it at the time but this was really an election that the SNP couldn't fail to do well out of.
What's more, it seems like nobody else realised it either, so nobody bothered to warn people about what might happen.
Well, I can tell you that all the people I have talked to so far have been delighted.
The English fear of the SNP is not the fault of the Scots. Blame Clegg and Cameron for that one.
Well, I can tell you that all the people I have talked to so far have been delighted.
The English fear of the SNP is not the fault of the Scots. Blame Clegg and Cameron for that one.
I don't think Sturgeon has exactly made non Scottish voters feel at ease, so I think your point is a bit condescending towards the English.
Surely this isn't a bandwagon people are going to jump on?
Some basic maths skills is all that is required to know that, even if Labour had retained their 40 seats in Scotland, they still weren't strong enough to beat the Tories.
It's nothing to do with the SNP, they ran a good campaign fronted by a good leader. Labour ran a lacklustre campaign fronted by a dud.
This is why Labour is dying. They are totally incapable of facing up to their own failures, instead choosing to heap spite and bile on others for exercising their democratic right.
I don't think Sturgeon has exactly made non Scottish voters feel at ease, so I think your point is a bit condescending towards the English.
No, my point was in reply to posters blaming Scottish voters for Labour losing the election. Blame Clegg, Cameron, even Sturgeon but Scottish voters did not lose it for Labour.
*Sigh!* For about the twentieth time today - if all 59 seats had gone to Labour, there would STILL be a Tory majority!
I dont think you are quite getting this. It is not about how many seat where won in Scotland. It is about people voting Tory in the UK so Labour did not have enough seats to drag SNP into a government with them.
I think Labour result would have been a lot different in the UK had SNP + Government not been the most likely outcome of voting Labour.
A lot of people would rather have a clear Tory win than and SNP + Labour Government. The fact that the SNP won so many seats in Scotland it makes it impossible for Labour to gain a majority do to the way the UK votes.
So the more Scotland votes SNP the more likely we will have a Tory government.
This is why Labour is dying. They are totally incapable of facing up to their own failures, instead choosing to heap spite and bile on others for exercising their democratic right.
Labour has worked hard to earn this result,
So far this morning I have heard Labour supporters blame the SNP, Lib Dems, UKIP, the media and even the voters. Anything but themselves
*Sigh!* For about the twentieth time today - if all 59 seats had gone to Labour, there would STILL be a Tory majority!
I think the problem is Sturgeon told folk across the UK not to vote Labour and then spent the campaign saying what the SNP would do to the Labour party.
Now the complaint from the SNP is that folk in England didn't vote Labour.
Played into the Tories hands as they will now carve up Westminster.
Mandleson was right, Labour ended up battling nationalism on both sides of the border and were swamped.
I dont think you are quite getting this. It is not about how many seat where won in Scotland. It is about people voting Tory in the UK so Labour did not have enough seats to drag SNP into a government with them.
.
Exactly! So it was English voters being scared of the SNP that cost Labour. Don't blame Scottish voters for English fearties!
No, my point was in reply to posters blaming Scottish voters for Labour losing the election. Blame Clegg, Cameron, even Sturgeon but Scottish voters did not lose it for Labour.
Apologies, you are correct in that the people of Scotland didn't cause Labour to lose.
Well, I can tell you that all the people I have talked to so far have been delighted.
The English fear of the SNP is not the fault of the Scots. Blame Clegg and Cameron for that one.
I think Labour have to look at themselves for their failures, but the SNP have to take some responsibility for the fear factor down south... for example all the talk of dark stars, lord Snooty's and more importantly reneging on debt during the referendum campaign.
I think the problem is Sturgeon told folk across the UK not to vote Labour and then spent the campaign saying what the SNP would do to the Labour party.
Now the complaint from the SNP is that folk in England didn't vote Labour.
Played into the Tories hands as they will now carve up Westminster.
Mandleson was right, Labour ended up battling nationalism on both sides of the border and were swamped.
When did she tell the rest of the UK not to vote labour? Links please.
Labour have themselves to blame for purely running anti-SNP campaign up here. The Tories ran a "be afraid if the SNP" campaign. The problem now is Caneron will have to follow through on that. Add a promised euro in/out vote and I can see another Scottish referendum on the horizon.
Exactly! So it was English voters being scared of the SNP that cost Labour. Don't blame Scottish voters for English fearties!
That's the way I see it too.
Seems like a lot of LibDem supporters in England were so afraid of a Lab/SNP alliance that it outweighed any more level-headed decision they might have otherwise made and so they just voted Con instead, just to be on the safe-side.
Don't blame the SNP - it's Labour who f**ked up royally.
Five years of Tory cuts, NHS in crisis and Labour lose seats. Jesus Christ:o
Don't worry, in September the next big crash will or could happen, then all bets will be off as it sweeps around America, and then the rest of the world that are run by the western banksters.
Miliband himself contributed to the anti Scottish vote by capitulating to the media's demand that he not even talk to the SNP, continuing the narrative that the will of the Scottish people is evil.
English nationalism lost Labour this election, not Scottish nationalism
Miliband himself contributed to the anti Scottish vote by capitulating to the media's demand that he not even talk to the SNP, continuing the narrative that the will of the Scottish people is evil.
English nationalism lost Labour this election, not Scottish nationalism
I think a mixture of both contributed, I don't think it was the policies as The SNP pinched some of them.
As Balls couldn't convince his own voters though I think that is where Labour need to start the post mortem from.
Interesting that Plaid didn't move anywhere despite SNP support.
That was entirely down to yourselves. Even if we had returned 59 Labour MPS, the Conservatives would still have 318 seats at the moment and Labour would have 284.
England returned 317 Conservatives, we returned one.
Nicola Sturgeon has pushed a lot of centre-left voters (and former Lib Dem voters) outside of Scotland over to the right over fear our country will split up. If it wasn't for her and the SNP a lot of those people would've voted Labour.
Can't blame them, I'd prefer to have a conservative Government than have the UK split up, and clearly I'm not the only one. Oh well.
I'm sure this was what did it. Ultimately the UK didn't want a partisan Scot calling the shots. She was just so smug about it all, she played the wrong hand.
Nicola Sturgeon basically fooled/tricked the Scottish people into voting for her party thinking that it would keep the Conservatives out. I suspect she just didn't want the Conservatives winning in Scotland. Stupid woman.
There was never even a remote chance of the Conservatives winning in Scotland. They were lucky to hold onto their ONE seat.
Comments
Well, I can tell you that all the people I have talked to so far have been delighted.
The English fear of the SNP is not the fault of the Scots. Blame Clegg and Cameron for that one.
Labour has worked hard to earn this result,
Their worst-case scenario was that they'd see no increase (or only a small increase) in support and they could carry on being the "plucky underdogs" fighting for Scotland with no loss of credibility.
The other two scenarios were that they do well and form an alliance with Labour and gain power or, what seems to be happening, they do well but a Con majority gets in and they can spend the next 4 years allowing the Con's to piss off jocks which'll set the SNP up nicely for another referendum.
I dunno whether they realised it at the time but this was really an election that the SNP couldn't fail to do well out of.
What's more, it seems like nobody else realised it either, so nobody bothered to warn people about what might happen.
Oh I absolutely agree with you
I don't think Sturgeon has exactly made non Scottish voters feel at ease, so I think your point is a bit condescending towards the English.
Some basic maths skills is all that is required to know that, even if Labour had retained their 40 seats in Scotland, they still weren't strong enough to beat the Tories.
It's nothing to do with the SNP, they ran a good campaign fronted by a good leader. Labour ran a lacklustre campaign fronted by a dud.
Exactly!
No, my point was in reply to posters blaming Scottish voters for Labour losing the election. Blame Clegg, Cameron, even Sturgeon but Scottish voters did not lose it for Labour.
I dont think you are quite getting this. It is not about how many seat where won in Scotland. It is about people voting Tory in the UK so Labour did not have enough seats to drag SNP into a government with them.
I think Labour result would have been a lot different in the UK had SNP + Government not been the most likely outcome of voting Labour.
A lot of people would rather have a clear Tory win than and SNP + Labour Government. The fact that the SNP won so many seats in Scotland it makes it impossible for Labour to gain a majority do to the way the UK votes.
So the more Scotland votes SNP the more likely we will have a Tory government.
So far this morning I have heard Labour supporters blame the SNP, Lib Dems, UKIP, the media and even the voters. Anything but themselves
You've obviously not seen any of my posts on the subject then. ;-)
I think the problem is Sturgeon told folk across the UK not to vote Labour and then spent the campaign saying what the SNP would do to the Labour party.
Now the complaint from the SNP is that folk in England didn't vote Labour.
Played into the Tories hands as they will now carve up Westminster.
Mandleson was right, Labour ended up battling nationalism on both sides of the border and were swamped.
Exactly! So it was English voters being scared of the SNP that cost Labour. Don't blame Scottish voters for English fearties!
Apologies, you are correct in that the people of Scotland didn't cause Labour to lose.
I think Labour have to look at themselves for their failures, but the SNP have to take some responsibility for the fear factor down south... for example all the talk of dark stars, lord Snooty's and more importantly reneging on debt during the referendum campaign.
When did she tell the rest of the UK not to vote labour? Links please.
Labour have themselves to blame for purely running anti-SNP campaign up here. The Tories ran a "be afraid if the SNP" campaign. The problem now is Caneron will have to follow through on that. Add a promised euro in/out vote and I can see another Scottish referendum on the horizon.
In my case, I certainly wasn't scared of the SNP, I just don't like anything they stand for.
That's the way I see it too.
Seems like a lot of LibDem supporters in England were so afraid of a Lab/SNP alliance that it outweighed any more level-headed decision they might have otherwise made and so they just voted Con instead, just to be on the safe-side.
Surely that's more down to the English voters voting them in?
Don't worry, in September the next big crash will or could happen, then all bets will be off as it sweeps around America, and then the rest of the world that are run by the western banksters.
English nationalism lost Labour this election, not Scottish nationalism
I think a mixture of both contributed, I don't think it was the policies as The SNP pinched some of them.
As Balls couldn't convince his own voters though I think that is where Labour need to start the post mortem from.
Interesting that Plaid didn't move anywhere despite SNP support.
That was entirely down to yourselves. Even if we had returned 59 Labour MPS, the Conservatives would still have 318 seats at the moment and Labour would have 284.
England returned 317 Conservatives, we returned one.
Live with it.
I'm sure this was what did it. Ultimately the UK didn't want a partisan Scot calling the shots. She was just so smug about it all, she played the wrong hand.
There was never even a remote chance of the Conservatives winning in Scotland. They were lucky to hold onto their ONE seat.